Side Topic — Help with Acceptable Responses

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

Hi all,

First let me say a big thanks for all the help and guidance. It has been invaluable and provided so much strength and support.

From another issue I’m having with my uBPDH, I’ve come to realize I stink at appropriate responses to discussions, comments, arguments with my H. I’m hoping I can get input on some canned responses (I know canned might become disingenuous, but just for guidance sake) that will:

      Not cause dysregulation/escalate (or at low risk, no guarantees)
      Maintain boundaries
      Allow me to maintain self esteem
      Bonus if it can deter/lessen future dysregulation/escalations
      Looking for a place where both he and I feel “okay”

My biggest boundary I insist on is no longer discussing my past. For those of you who are new to my story, my fairly tame, but not wholly pure past is a HUGE source of dysregulation for my H.  I have discussed ad naseum with him (for 25+ years), nothing is new or has changed and the discussion inevitably turns into uncontrolled onslaughts of rage— in person or electronic.

With the help here, I have established a boundary to no longer discuss. I state that I understand what he is saying, that I need to think about it and exit. If via text, I simply do not respond.  There’s a lot more to both of these, but this is the basic idea.

He has not dysregulated on this topic in some time. Pandemic? He’s divorcing me so doesn’t care? Miraculously understands the boundary (and respects the boundary?)? Something else?  Probably a combo.

So he flings insults at me to ruffle my feathers. I do my best to not let it bother me or at least not let him know it bothers me. He’s been doing it a lot in front of the kids lately (everyone is obviously home rn) as I think he knows I don’t necessarily want to escalate in front of them BUT I also want them know it’s not okay to do this to someone. So, here is where I’d like to have help with responses (to customize as needed) so I don’t have to run through a bunch of questions in my head in a split second.

Comment one:

You are a hillbilly/rube (it has been pointed out that this is not a negative to most people, but I assure you my H is spinning it negative).

Response options?

You are Wild West trash

You are an immoral slut

You make the worst decisions . Yet, every big decision he basically forces me to make, I believe so he can lay blame if it turns out poorly. And, amazingly he takes credit if it goes well.

These are just the start, but most common and a good launching point.

I’d love to have any response suggestions AND to hear others’ experiences with these types of things. What worked, what didn’t?

Many thanks for your input!

[UBPDHelp]

Hi all,

First let me say a big thanks for all the help and guidance. It has been invaluable and provided so much strength and support.

From another issue I’m having with my uBPDH, I’ve come to realize I stink at appropriate responses to discussions, comments, arguments with my H. I’m hoping I can get input on some canned responses (I know canned might become disingenuous, but just for guidance sake) that will:

      Not cause dysregulation/escalate (or at low risk, no guarantees)
      Maintain boundaries
      Allow me to maintain self esteem
      Bonus if it can deter/lessen future dysregulation/escalations
      Looking for a place where both he and I feel “okay”

My biggest boundary I insist on is no longer discussing my past. For those of you who are new to my story, my fairly tame, but not wholly pure past is a HUGE source of dysregulation for my H.  I have discussed ad naseum with him (for 25+ years), nothing is new or has changed and the discussion inevitably turns into uncontrolled onslaughts of rage— in person or electronic.

With the help here, I have established a boundary to no longer discuss. I state that I understand what he is saying, that I need to think about it and exit. If via text, I simply do not respond.  There’s a lot more to both of these, but this is the basic idea.

He has not dysregulated on this topic in some time. Pandemic? He’s divorcing me so doesn’t care? Miraculously understands the boundary (and respects the boundary?)? Something else?  Probably a combo.

So he flings insults at me to ruffle my feathers. I do my best to not let it bother me or at least not let him know it bothers me. He’s been doing it a lot in front of the kids lately (everyone is obviously home rn) as I think he knows I don’t necessarily want to escalate in front of them BUT I also want them know it’s not okay to do this to someone. So, here is where I’d like to have help with responses (to customize as needed) so I don’t have to run through a bunch of questions in my head in a split second.

Comment one:

You are a hillbilly/rube (it has been pointed out that this is not a negative to most people, but I assure you my H is spinning it negative).

Response options?

You are Wild West trash

You are an immoral slut

You make the worst decisions . Yet, every big decision he basically forces me to make, I believe so he can lay blame if it turns out poorly. And, amazingly he takes credit if it goes well.

These are just the start, but most common and a good launching point.

I’d love to have any response suggestions AND to hear others’ experiences with these types of things. What worked, what didn’t?

Many thanks for your input!

[kells76]

Hi there UBPDHelp;

I'm usually over on Family Law/Custody, though I pop in to other boards to read and learn. I've been following your story, and I see that you're interested in trying new ways of dealing with your H's insults and covert putdowns.

If you're familiar with jiu-jitsu (the martial art -- which I am not, really, but bear with me!), the gist of it is that instead of facing your opponent and pummeling them, winning by exerting more energy and power than they can, you use their energy against them, "rolling" them over you and "dominating them from the down position".

The suggestions in the other thread of responding to the covert insult in "Mom eats her meat with mustard [like a hillbilly]" with "you bet I love mustard on my meat" embodies the "jiu-jitsu" response. Instead of "winning" by pummeling back with more power (i.e. "That's not true, I'm not a hillbilly, and you need to stop insulting me"), you've deflated and disarmed the insult by letting it roll past you and putting it in a powerless "armlock" of "hey, I do like to eat this way". Now there's nothing for the insult to push back against.

There's an article by Dr. Craig Childress that is focused on using your verbal, emotional, and body language tones in a jiu-jitsu way to deflate and disarm irrational criticisms. It's focused on the parent-child relationship, but would still apply to your situation. If you head here:

https://drcachildress.org/custom-page/1-parent-resources/

and search for "Ju-jitsu Parenting: Fighting Back from the Down Position"

check out pages 14-16 on Emotional Tone.

I found it fascinating that maintaining a lower emotional tone (i.e., on a scale of 1 totally mellow to 10 completely enraged), staying at about a 2 conveys dominance and management of the situation.

Wishing you all the best as you learn new tools!

Cheers;

kells76

[babyducks]

these are all drama triangle invitations.    like we talked about upstream.

Almost all conflict interactions with a person with Borderline Personality Disorder traits (BPD) or Narcissistic Personality Disorder traits (NPD) are based on who is better than/worse than, right/wrong, deserving of blame/deserving of defense, who gets more/gets less, who does more/does less, etc

.

this is all about who is superior/inferior.   he has to be superior.    he makes himself feel better by labeling you inferior.    don't pick up the label.    don't accept the argument.   it's non productive.    

You don't want to JADE. Justify Argue Defend or Explain.   I also  have trouble not becoming sarcastic.   Tone of voice matters.    

You are a hillbilly/rube.    
- Yes I was born in _____.    
- You say this a lot.     It's getting old.
- my best most helpful response to my Ex was non verbal.   I would stop,   pause for a few seconds... look at her over the top of glasses until the silence got a little uncomfortable and then move away from her.   to the other side of room... off the sofa... whatever.

You are Wild West trash.
-   Name calling is inappropriate.   walk away and stay away.
-  I know exactly what I am and I am happy with me.
-  I am a great person.  walk away and stay away.
- I don't accept your idea.

You are an immoral slut.
this is verbal abuse.    I personally wouldn't tolerate it.   I would invalidate it hard.
- that's unacceptable.    I won't listen to you.   walk away and stay away longer.


'ducks

[UBPDHelp]

Hi Kels,

Thank you hopping over!

The suggestions in the other thread of responding to the covert insult in "Mom eats her meat with mustard [like a hillbilly]" with "you bet I love mustard on my meat" embodies the "jiu-jitsu" response. Instead of "winning" by pummeling back with more power (i.e. "That's not true, I'm not a hillbilly, and you need to stop insulting me"), you've deflated and disarmed the insult by letting it roll past you and putting it in a powerless "armlock" of "hey, I do like to eat this way". Now there's nothing for the insult to push back against.

There's an article by Dr. Craig Childress that is focused on using your verbal, emotional, and body language tones in a jiu-jitsu way to deflate and disarm irrational criticisms. It's focused on the parent-child relationship, but would still apply to your situation. If you head here:

https://drcachildress.org/custom-page/1-parent-resources/

and search for "Ju-jitsu Parenting: Fighting Back from the Down Position"

check out pages 14-16 on Emotional Tone.

I found it fascinating that maintaining a lower emotional tone (i.e., on a scale of 1 totally mellow to 10 completely enraged), staying at about a 2 conveys dominance and management of the situation.

This is a great analogy and I definitely think these skills would be good for me. I enjoy care taking and making people happy (myself included) and am an overall happy and positive person. But, this care taker role is an invitation and close switch to door mat. In every arena.  So, my fault for not setting a firm boundary. I am NOT okay with being taken advantage of.

I look forward to reading about this approach and seeing if I can acquire some skills to assert myself without aggression — or promoting his.

Thanks again for the insight!

[UBPDHelp]

Hi BabyDucks,

Thank you...sorry if you have to repeat. I hope to get to your place where I just know and see all of this so clearly. I definitely want equal footing, hopefully he can accept and live there.

this is all about who is superior/inferior.   he has to be superior.    he makes himself feel better by labeling you inferior.    don't pick up the label.    don't accept the argument.   it's non productive.   

You don't want to JADE. Justify Argue Defend or Explain.   I also  have trouble not becoming sarcastic.   Tone of voice matters.   

You are a hillbilly/rube.     
- Yes I was born in _____.     
- You say this a lot.     It's getting old.
- my best most helpful response to my Ex was non verbal.   I would stop,   pause for a few seconds... look at her over the top of glasses until the silence got a little uncomfortable and then move away from her.   to the other side of room... off the sofa... whatever.

You are Wild West trash.
-   Name calling is inappropriate.   walk away and stay away.
-  I know exactly what I am and I am happy with me.
-  I am a great person.  walk away and stay away.
- I don't accept your idea.

You are an immoral slut.
this is verbal abuse.    I personally wouldn't tolerate it.   I would invalidate it hard.
- that's unacceptable.    I won't listen to you.   walk away and stay away longer.

These are great. And so helpful!  Thank you. I am going to practice these so they’re at the tip of my tongue.

And thank you for helping delineate which are not worthy of escalation (none should be) and which are entirely unacceptable. Exactly how I felt, but I’ve lost a lot of confidence in my abilities, so this is more helpful than you know.

Big  to you!