Home page of BPDFamily.com, online relationship supportMember registration here
March 29, 2024, 10:28:24 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Board Admins: Kells76, Once Removed, Turkish
Senior Ambassadors: Cat Familiar, EyesUp, SinisterComplex
  Help!   Boards   Please Donate Login to Post New?--Click here to register  
bing
Expert insight for adult children
101
Family dynamics matter.
Alan Fruzzetti, PhD
Listening to shame
Brené Brown, PhD
Blame - why we do it?
Brené Brown, PhD
How to spot a liar
Pamela Meyer
Pages: [1]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Advice for setting boundaries? (Long post)  (Read 429 times)
Josie2020

*
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Confidential
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Parent
Relationship status: daughter/ lives apart but visits a lot
Posts: 23


« on: April 01, 2020, 09:39:26 PM »


So I’m new to this community but I’ve been knowing that my mom has had BPD for about 5 years now. What made me start doing my research is that her sister has it and she was reading “stop walking on eggshells.” And I thought “that’s how I feel when around her.”  This is when I looked up the disorder and was shocked but relieved and validated to find out that I was not alone, and there was a reason for my pain.  From explosive rages, screaming fights that lasted from hours to days at a time, that would alternate with her being nice but extremely controlling, intrusive.  So on her good days. she is still controlling and very invasive. She did not exhibit substance abuse and hurtful words only happened during an episode (other than the constant criticism of very neutral things).  I’ve been through the false accusations and getting questioned for hours and hours until I finally gave up and basically “falsely confessed” to something I didn’t even do/lie about. This has happened thousands of times. Sound familiar? That is a summary of my high school years and even has happened throughout college. The triggers in college were me wanting to visit with friends for a few days instead of coming straight home for any break/holiday (even when I planned to come home the next day). Since she would call me multiple times and ask me question after question about why I wasn’t coming home, who I was hanging out with until it turned into an embarrassing screaming match, I learned it was best to just go home when she wanted me to because the socializing would have been ruined anyway. Why not just miss out and not have the horrible memory.? I played on an athletic team in COLLEGE and my mom had knock down drag out fights with all three coaches who ended up leaving the program pretty soon after those fights occurred. (Maybe it’s a coincidence but I think they’re related) As I’ve gotten older and graduated I found myself distancing myself from friends, other family members and anyone else that she could perceive as a threat. I babysat for a family and I asked advice from the woman I helped because I was pursuing medicine and she was a doctor. When my mom found this out, she (as per usual) wanted an explanation as to why I wanted her advice, question after question later, and eventually exploded and asked me if I wished that the other lady was my mother? Then I started a graduate program out of state, (I was accepted in and out of state, and I acted like the in state rejected me just so that there would be no fuss about me moving out). During this time I researched BPD and experienced a lot of grief, anxiety (which I was suffering from since high school), and self destructive behaviors and suicidal thoughts. At 25 years old, still in fear of my mom’s rage and interrogations, I developed the coping skill of lying. We haven’t had a major fight in two years, but I make damn sure I don’t say anything to trigger her and I pretty much just go with what she says. I never mention anything deep about any relationship or anything social that I do. When I do have school breaks and I want to see friends, I tell my parents that my holidays are a week after they actually are, so that I can spend time with people I care about for a little while and not get destroyed for it. That way I only have to go home for a shorter period of time but she doesn’t have any reason to get angry because she doesn't think I’m choosing my friends over her. Now I’m in therapy and I’m in medical school, and yes, I’ve gotten control of the destructive habits and I'm coming alone, and getting better. Ultimately the lying helps to ease anxiety and I’m overall a happier and less anxious person. However, I’m realizing this manipulation is not going to help me in the long term. There are some situations where lying doesn’t do anything. I’m ashamed to say this but I’m currently 27 years old, and I live six hours away from her. I’m still afraid to be honest with her. I don’t know how to say, “no you can’t come to visit me on that day, I need a day to myself (without lying and saying I absolutely physically can’t see her due to some mandatory event at school. I’m so afraid to tell her that she is being intrusive when she cleans my house after me telling her not to. I’m afraid to tell her she’s over reactive about something that she is obviously overreacting about. I’m afraid to say, “I know we have three weeks off for my winter holiday, but I’m going to come home to visit the family for the week of Christmas, then I’m coming back to my own house, where my life is.” Even when I give in and go home, it’s like we have to do something together every single day and she’s so sad when I have to leave to the point of where I feel guilty. I can’t Even work up to courage to just say “I need space.” I’m afraid she’ll do what she does, accuse me of never wanting to spend time with her. (When I leave for an hour)

II’ve read a lot of self help books, and they have given me a lot of good info and validation but I have yet to read anything that has a way to effectively communicate with a BP. How can I set boundaries, without the generic answers. We all know how to talk to a difficult parent, That is the story of my life. I've tried all those statements where you validate them and pose your logical reasoning behind your needs. My mom catches onto that and feels degraded and the fight just gets worse. Things from books and resources have not worked for me Does anyone have any advice for me? Any success stories? I’m desperate here. I know it’s a process but I can’t live like this any longer. I am looking for someone who actually has gone through this and can give me any techniques that actually do work.

To sum it all up: how can I stand up for my own needs and boundaries and it actually be effective and not turn into an explosion? Is there any way for me to achieve peace without 1)lying about everything and keeping my mouth shut/letting her win
Or

2) completely estranging myself from the relationship.


This is seriously urgent. My mom is a nice person when this isn’t happening. I've read about "splitting," and she basically does that. She is an above average mom when she's in good spirits, but say the wrong thing and its hell to pay.  I hope to salvage a relationship with her without it being based on a lie. Things have been good between us lately, but I know that if I wasn't holding things in, that they would be horrifying. I basically live my life with the main goal of avoiding a fight with her that could lead to rage. Please help! Again, sorry for the extremely long post. I just don't know what todo any more.
Logged
missing NC
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Sibling
Relationship status: no contact
Posts: 125


« Reply #1 on: April 01, 2020, 11:17:23 PM »

Hi Josie2020,

I don't feel I am in a position to give my own advice for dealing with a pwBPD given that my own outcome has been disastrous.  However, I would like to pass along some advice that I received from the mother of a late daughter with BPD:  You must have a "therapeutic" relationship.  In other words, it's not realistic to expect to have the type of relationship you would have with other individuals. It's not possible to have a truly authentic relationship.  If you are able to accept that reality, your life will be easier.  I wish you the best.
Logged
Methuen
********
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Parent
Posts: 1732


« Reply #2 on: April 02, 2020, 01:00:40 AM »

Hi Josie2020 Welcome new member (click to insert in post)

Congratulations for getting into med school.  What a lot of hard work, just to get in!

Personally I applaud your strategy to attend med school "out" of state to get some distance.

I kind of had a personal crisis last summer and fall.  My mom was impossible and quite horrible.  I'm 57.  She was just getting meaner and meaner (she's 83).  It finally "hit me" that she was never going to change.  If I wanted to stop being miserable for how she treated me, I was the one that was going to have to change.

I got the following good advice on this site:
1) Emotionally detach with kindness.  I don't know how to describe it, except that for me it was a kind of very gradual process of emotional divorce.  Think of it as me being more of an observer of her behavior, and less of a participant.  I kind of treat some of her words like I would if they came from a person on the street.  There's a certain detachment, which lets me respond the way an emotionally detached person would (more rational, and I don't engage in any drama).  Now, I still spend time with my mom, but it's a lot less, and I just have neutral subject conversations with her (I don't disclose anything personal).  I still support her (eg. grocery shopping for her during Covid-19), but I have let go of the expectation of having a typical mother/daughter relationship.  Once I finally accepted my mom as she was (radical acceptance), I started to feel better.
2) Radical acceptance
3) Stop feeling her feelings for her.  This was a big one.  If she's feeling bad, it's not my fault, and not my problem to fix.  Let her self-soothe.  They are her feelings, and as an adult, she needs to figure out how to feel better for herself. It's  much easier said than done (for us to differentiate our feelings from that of our BPD parent).
4) Self-care.  Sounds like you are working on this.  I get that you are uncomfortable with not telling the "whole truth" to avoid conflict with her.  You call it a lie.  I'm guessing that the word "lie" is a word that you learned from your mom, possibly as a child?  I don't call it a lie.  You are just doing what you need to do to take care of yourself so you can feel emotionally safe.  For me, that falls under the umbrella of "self-care".  Eating healthy, physical activity, sleep hygiene, social and mental stimulation, and stress management are acts of self-care.  You are just doing what you need to do to manage a challenging relationship.  She isn't going to change, so you are adapting and doing what you have to do to take care of yourself.  Is the bit about "lying" her values, or yours?  Maybe it would be helpful to look at it differently, is what I'm suggesting.
5) Managing boundaries.  I had to go no contact for a short period of a few weeks just to let my amygdala settle down, and then I've been low contact since.  People with BPD generally have either poor boundaries or no boundaries.  When you set a boundary (eg. I realize you may be disappointed I don't have time to visit while I am at school.  This must be difficult for you to hear.  I am in med school working "X" hours a week, and busy with my clinical, so these school demands mean I have no spare time.  That's just the reality of med school for all students.)  She may push back, and rant and tell you what a terrible daughter you are for not making time for her.  You can excuse yourself and say "I have to go now mom", and then give her time to let her sort out her own feelings.  You can't make her feel better.  You can't change her.  You can't fix her feelings about herself.  It's also not your job to feel guilty.  I going to assume she's trained you to feel guilty, but our task as "nons" in recovery, is to "untrain" ourselves from FOG, and let them deal with their own feelings.

I also started seeing a really good clinical counsellor.

Excerpt
how can I stand up for my own needs and boundaries and it actually be effective and not turn into an explosion?

There is an immense library of really excellent tools and resources on this site. These have helped me the most:  radical acceptance, SET, asking validating questions, setting boundaries, emotional detachment, not JADEing, and more recently, getting a much better grasp of the Karpman Triangle and my role in it.

I think you may find that any one of those tools/skills to be helpful, but all together they can make a significant difference, because they are about helping you, not helping her.  

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that your mom could be financially supporting your med school education?  Is that a complicating factor in all this?
« Last Edit: April 02, 2020, 01:17:14 AM by Methuen » Logged
Josie2020

*
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Confidential
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Parent
Relationship status: daughter/ lives apart but visits a lot
Posts: 23


« Reply #3 on: April 02, 2020, 11:27:31 AM »

To Meuthen: THANK YOU so much for taking this time to reply. You have no idea how reading that made me feel. I really really appreciate you. And to answer your question, at this point, my family is helping me with half of my medical education. I have taken out loans for my tuition, fees and day to day living expenses; however, my parents are paying my rent, electricity and phone bill. I knew that this was probably just a form of control on her part. When I tried to set that boundary (only because I felt like the financial obligation would give her the excuse to do and say what she wants, not because I would "abandon" her), it turned into a storm. That is why I gave in and we compromised on her paying for the major bills and me paying for the other things. She originally wanted to pay for all of it! I cannot wait to look at this site. I knew this would be a good decision! I teared up reading your reply by the way. This means so much, sometimes I feel so alone. When other people I know visit their family they are happy and at ease. I am nervous. I came down to spend the quarantine with the family even though I probably would've been safer self-quarantining. Things are going okay for now, but I spend most of it in my room studying.

The self-care thing that you said really made me feel better. Thank you.
Logged
zachira
Ambassador
********
Online Online

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Sibling
Posts: 3236


« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2020, 01:43:58 PM »

Know that you are not alone in feeling the way you do about having a mother with BPD and feeling badly about having to deceive your mother to protect yourself. My mother with BPD died this summer, and I have two siblings with BPD. You are taking many steps in the right direction, like limiting your contact with your mother while being fully aware that you cannot let her know much about your life because of how she will use your personal information to justify mistreating you. I am glad to hear you are in therapy. There are many members here who have found therapy helpful in dealing with a mother with BPD and many of us have done many years of therapy. I was in therapy for 9 years after my mother abused my dying brother because he would not be around to take care of her in her old age and the social services had to get involved.
From my experience, the biggest challenge of having a mother with BPD, is to not feel her feelings for her.This is a big challenge, as we learn subconsiously to feel our mother's feelings from the womb, and do not acquire the skills of self-soothing that we would have if we had had a mother who put the emotional needs of her children before her own. My therapist recommended that I stay quietly present while observing my own feelings when in the presence of disordered people who were dumping their uncomfortable feelings onto me or others. It also helps me to remember that angry people try to make other people angry so they don't have to feel their own anger.
You have a lot of awareness and courage. We need doctors that understand BPD and can help their patients while educating other medical professionals about BPD. Of course, you would not wish having a mother with BPD on anybody. We are here to listen and support you. Please let us know how we can be the most helpful.
Logged

missing NC
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Sibling
Relationship status: no contact
Posts: 125


« Reply #5 on: April 02, 2020, 04:04:36 PM »

Methuen and zachira offer some tremendous insights.  I thought I'd add two points.  First, you mention doing quite a bit of reading. You may have seen the webinars put together by McClean Hospital on communicating effectively with a pwBPD and reducing conflict, but I'll include them here:  https://www.mcleanhospital.org/borderline-personality-disorder-patient-and-family-education-initiative

Second, your concern about lying reminds me of when my mother moved from the early stage to middle stage of dementia.  I too wanted to maintain an authentic relationship. A friend who also happens to be an MD surprised me a bit by saying that she coped with her mother's decline into dementia by lying to her "about everything."  It might be somewhat easier to mentally classify your mom in the same category as a person with dementia if that makes it easier to embrace the adaptations you are finding effective. 
Logged
Methuen
********
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Parent
Posts: 1732


« Reply #6 on: April 02, 2020, 11:53:50 PM »

I'm really glad you found it helpful Josie2020.

Excerpt
This means so much, sometimes I feel so alone.

I so so so get this.  When I discovered this site, I had no idea that there was another person on the planet experiencing anything similar to what I experienced with my high-conflict mother.  I truly felt alone and isolated.  Hopeless and helpless when it came to how to relate with mom.

Both the support and the resources on this site have been life changing.  Not only am I no longer isolated, I know there are people who truly understand.  And I keep learning more and more from the resources here and elsewhere.  

Since you are in med school, I have a little story to share.  About seventeen years ago my dad was diagnosed with Lewy Bodies.  My uBPD mom had not been coping with dad's advancing illness for years - translation - she wasn't treating him well.  One day he asked me to make a Dr appt for him, and go with him.  He disclosed to the GP some of mom's behavior's.  How she treated him was aweful, and I was proud of dad for seeking help.  The GP was new in town, and young.  She listened carefully and let him tell his story.  At the end of it all, she said "It sounds to me like your wife could have BPD".  I filed that in memory storage for a number of years. She made some recommendations, but my dad went into care not long after that.  A few years later (after dad had died), I was mom's next punching bag in line (only child here).  Desperation drove me to see a counsellor.  The counsellor listened to my story, and said "it sounds like your mom could have BPD".  Then I remembered what the GP had said.  Boom!  I have to tell you, I just have so so so much respect for GP's.  Their job is so incredibly hard.  That Dr made a huge difference in my life because she was familiar with BPD and knew her "stuff".  I started to investigate BPD, and it began to dawn on me that maybe "I" wasn't the only problem.  My current GP is also knowledgeable and has some personal experience with mental illness in the family.  It is absolutely life-changing when a GP "gets it".  Where I am going with this is towards a big shout out to doctors who work so incredibly hard to get into med school, put incredible dedication during those difficult med school years, and then go to work every day facing incredible circumstances and challenges, to help other people have better quality lives.  Docs make a huge difference.  My dad's doc gave me the gift of a name for my mom's behavior, and in so doing, gave me the opportunity to understand my mom for who she is, and become a better person and a more helpful daughter.  Then I found this site, which gave me the support and information I needed to follow through.  I just think doctors are amazing, and as difficult as being the daughter of a BPD is, I have faith it will help you be an amazing doctor like the ones in my story.  Thank you for all your hard work and dedication in med school.

You're going to get through this with your mom. Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

 Virtual hug (click to insert in post)

Logged
Methuen
********
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Parent
Posts: 1732


« Reply #7 on: April 03, 2020, 12:08:45 AM »

Excerpt
When other people I know visit their family they are happy and at ease. I am nervous.

Yep.  What helped me with this very thing was radical acceptance.  Once I accepted mom for who she was, and stopped wanting her to be someone or something else, I was more at peace with myself, and my own responses toward her behavior changed I think.  Now I don't JADE, I use SET, validating questions, boundaries, and self-care.  Things are temporarily OK between us, until her next big dysregulation.  It is what it is.  When that happens, I will have to "up" the self-care for myself again, and let her self-soothe.  Now that I have some emotional detachment from mom, I can look at her somewhat "clinically", and not take it as personally.  I make it sound easier than it is.  It's not that easy.  It's still a work in progress for me, but I'm feeling a lot better than I was a year ago.

You'll get there!  Virtual hug (click to insert in post)



« Last Edit: April 03, 2020, 12:14:51 AM by Methuen » Logged
Josie2020

*
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Confidential
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Parent
Relationship status: daughter/ lives apart but visits a lot
Posts: 23


« Reply #8 on: April 03, 2020, 12:19:35 PM »

Thank you all again. Joining this community was a great decision. The more I read, the crazy thing is that I had developed strategies growing up (even my own acronyms after writing down her triggers etc) that are almost identical to some of the important strategies I've been reading about. One of the acronyms about what not to do around her contained (E=explain and D=defending). I'm glad to know I am on the right track. During Covid-19, i am spending most of the time in the books studying for medical school, but I am taking a couple of days practicing I statements and SETs by writing down scenarios on my iPad and even writing potential counter statements that she may want to argue. With the "I statements," I realized she has nothing to argue. But if you JADE and for example, explain something you were doing, she always can pull something out of an opinion based statement.

For instance, I sometimes  justify me wanting to do something by saying well, my friend who is 23 does that and I am 27, so you shouldn't be upset about me doing that, too. But that gives her something to pull from and she can do and say all kinds of things about that. (you only do what other people do, you don't actually know that other persons story, blah blah blah, I get tired and she wins again.) But by saying, "I simply want to do that thing. I would prefer to do that thing. How does one argue that for over a couple of minutes.  (Lately I've been listening to surviving a borderline parent on audio and I have been working through the walking on eggshells workbook.).

I have also compared this to a peanut allergy.  If someone has a peanut allergy, are you going to eat peanuts around them? Absolutely not! So my mom has BPD, so are we going to bring (her triggers, her "peanut) around her? No!

And yes, I do hope as a future MD, that I can help implement mental health into my practice. I'm not a huge fan of the practice of psychiatry (a lot of pharm, its just not what I see myself in, even though I could talk about psych like no other) but in the clinical setting, it is important to gauge mental health of self and relatives. It provides much motivation for things. Thanks for your appreciation. Words like those keep me going.
Logged
Can You Help Us Stay on the Air in 2024?

Pages: [1]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Our 2023 Financial Sponsors
We are all appreciative of the members who provide the funding to keep BPDFamily on the air.
12years
alterK
AskingWhy
At Bay
Cat Familiar
CoherentMoose
drained1996
EZEarache
Flora and Fauna
ForeverDad
Gemsforeyes
Goldcrest
Harri
healthfreedom4s
hope2727
khibomsis
Lemon Squeezy
Memorial Donation (4)
Methos
Methuen
Mommydoc
Mutt
P.F.Change
Penumbra66
Red22
Rev
SamwizeGamgee
Skip
Swimmy55
Tartan Pants
Turkish
whirlpoollife



Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2006-2020, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!