Could use some validation that this is not about me

[Depression = 72% of members]

For some reason the past few days have been hard and I’ve been spinning in my head again.

I think my inner narrative goes something like this: “I’m almost certain that he has characteristics of BPD, (with a little NPD thrown in as well). SO much of what I read here rings true to my experience. But some of it doesn’t. And he never love-bombed me, so maybe this wasn’t really BPD.” And then I start spiraling down into, “maybe he just didn’t love me enough.”

So many of the stories here seem to include the initial phase of effusive love, adoration, bonding, etc. I didn’t really get this. For most of our r/s, he was still kind of emotionally obsessed with his abusive NPD ex with whom he was in the middle of a nasty divorce. So I never got the “I love you, you’re the best person ever” thing in the very beginning. Or the version I got was different - it was more that he leaned on me very heavily for emotional support, calling me at 2 in the morning to talk for 2 hours about his divorce, forwarding me emails he got from the attorneys to get my help in figuring out how to respond, etc (this was very early on). He’d say something like “you’re so great, you have everything going for you, you could be with anyone, maybe you’d be better off with someone who isn’t so damaged,” interspersed with stories of how everyone in his life has abused him and done him wrong. A few months into our r/s he was planning vacations together with both our kids and talking about our future together years down the road. But at the same time, I always kind of felt like I was competing with his ex for his emotional attention if that makes sense. (I was the sane one, she was the crazy one, so maybe I wasn’t as exciting?)

He did have so many characteristics and behaviors that seem to fit with BPD. Including anger/rage issues that came up more and more frequently as our r/s went on and could be set off by the littlest thing (like my 8yo supposedly cheating at a card game), and would often occur in public (we got kicked out a concert once, and more than once I had people come up to me in public asking if I was ok after witnessing our “fights” or rather his explosions). There are many other things that seem to fit (black and white thinking, mild paranoia, detachment, lots of push/pull, fake illness, tons of drama, estranged from family, very checkered history of friendships ending, worried about me leaving him any time we had a fight, victim mentality, lots of emotional manipulation, some NPD behaviors as well).

In general, his mood swings were less extreme than what many others have described here. He would alternate between semi-normal/attentive or being very detached– he often did things like drink, listen to heavy metal, or just zone out to “calm” himself. Or he would make little indirect jabs that were hurtful but hard to point to as "abusive."

The exception was his very angry outbursts which would happen anywhere from every couple of days to every few weeks. A few of those times I was legitimately scared of him. Even when he was really angry, he didn’t say cruel or vindictive things to me, but it still felt abusive in the intensity and relentlessness of the assault, if that makes sense. It felt like an attack, not a fight, and frequently would go on for hours. But he didn't scream about how awful I was, it was more like passive-aggressive “I guess I’m just not good enough” said in a very contemptuous way. He would turn everything I said into a criticism or attack, it’s like that’s all he could hear.

From what I've read, I think he fits more into the "waif" category - very much a victim mentality and the need for lots of attention based on that.

When I broke up with him, he didn’t get angry – it was was more like he just emotionally detached and took on a different persona. But he still said I was a great person and he wanted to end on good terms.

Maybe he is on the more functional end of the spectrum, or maybe I just didn’t stick around long enough to get to the truly awful behavior and words (we were together a little over a year), which in a crazy way makes me question my decision a little more, because it didn’t get “that bad.”

I think part of what I’m struggling with is this: while we were together, he was still focused so much on his ex. After we broke up, he started seeing someone else very quickly.

The rational part of me sees this as to be expected for someone with emotional issues. The messed up part of me, though, feels like maybe the problem is that he just never loved me enough to devote himself to me, and now he’s found someone better who he’ll be happy with. Maybe our relationship wasn’t “real” but his new one will be.

I guess what I’m looking for is some validation that his behaviors do sound suggestive of BPD. I can’t diagnose him and neither can any of you, and at the end of the day it doesn’t matter whether he truly has BPD or not. But it really helps me to de-personalize this situation to recognize that he was, and is, incapable, of a healthy relationship, and that it has nothing to do with my own worth. Getting some validation and support from others is helpful for me in confirming that this was not a healthy situation and that it is not a reflection on my value as a person.

Thanks

[l8kgrl]

For some reason the past few days have been hard and I’ve been spinning in my head again.

I think my inner narrative goes something like this: “I’m almost certain that he has characteristics of BPD, (with a little NPD thrown in as well). SO much of what I read here rings true to my experience. But some of it doesn’t. And he never love-bombed me, so maybe this wasn’t really BPD.” And then I start spiraling down into, “maybe he just didn’t love me enough.”

So many of the stories here seem to include the initial phase of effusive love, adoration, bonding, etc. I didn’t really get this. For most of our r/s, he was still kind of emotionally obsessed with his abusive NPD ex with whom he was in the middle of a nasty divorce. So I never got the “I love you, you’re the best person ever” thing in the very beginning. Or the version I got was different - it was more that he leaned on me very heavily for emotional support, calling me at 2 in the morning to talk for 2 hours about his divorce, forwarding me emails he got from the attorneys to get my help in figuring out how to respond, etc (this was very early on). He’d say something like “you’re so great, you have everything going for you, you could be with anyone, maybe you’d be better off with someone who isn’t so damaged,” interspersed with stories of how everyone in his life has abused him and done him wrong. A few months into our r/s he was planning vacations together with both our kids and talking about our future together years down the road. But at the same time, I always kind of felt like I was competing with his ex for his emotional attention if that makes sense. (I was the sane one, she was the crazy one, so maybe I wasn’t as exciting?)

He did have so many characteristics and behaviors that seem to fit with BPD. Including anger/rage issues that came up more and more frequently as our r/s went on and could be set off by the littlest thing (like my 8yo supposedly cheating at a card game), and would often occur in public (we got kicked out a concert once, and more than once I had people come up to me in public asking if I was ok after witnessing our “fights” or rather his explosions). There are many other things that seem to fit (black and white thinking, mild paranoia, detachment, lots of push/pull, fake illness, tons of drama, estranged from family, very checkered history of friendships ending, worried about me leaving him any time we had a fight, victim mentality, lots of emotional manipulation, some NPD behaviors as well).

In general, his mood swings were less extreme than what many others have described here. He would alternate between semi-normal/attentive or being very detached– he often did things like drink, listen to heavy metal, or just zone out to “calm” himself. Or he would make little indirect jabs that were hurtful but hard to point to as "abusive."

The exception was his very angry outbursts which would happen anywhere from every couple of days to every few weeks. A few of those times I was legitimately scared of him. Even when he was really angry, he didn’t say cruel or vindictive things to me, but it still felt abusive in the intensity and relentlessness of the assault, if that makes sense. It felt like an attack, not a fight, and frequently would go on for hours. But he didn't scream about how awful I was, it was more like passive-aggressive “I guess I’m just not good enough” said in a very contemptuous way. He would turn everything I said into a criticism or attack, it’s like that’s all he could hear.

From what I've read, I think he fits more into the "waif" category - very much a victim mentality and the need for lots of attention based on that.

When I broke up with him, he didn’t get angry – it was was more like he just emotionally detached and took on a different persona. But he still said I was a great person and he wanted to end on good terms.

Maybe he is on the more functional end of the spectrum, or maybe I just didn’t stick around long enough to get to the truly awful behavior and words (we were together a little over a year), which in a crazy way makes me question my decision a little more, because it didn’t get “that bad.”

I think part of what I’m struggling with is this: while we were together, he was still focused so much on his ex. After we broke up, he started seeing someone else very quickly.

The rational part of me sees this as to be expected for someone with emotional issues. The messed up part of me, though, feels like maybe the problem is that he just never loved me enough to devote himself to me, and now he’s found someone better who he’ll be happy with. Maybe our relationship wasn’t “real” but his new one will be.

I guess what I’m looking for is some validation that his behaviors do sound suggestive of BPD. I can’t diagnose him and neither can any of you, and at the end of the day it doesn’t matter whether he truly has BPD or not. But it really helps me to de-personalize this situation to recognize that he was, and is, incapable, of a healthy relationship, and that it has nothing to do with my own worth. Getting some validation and support from others is helpful for me in confirming that this was not a healthy situation and that it is not a reflection on my value as a person.

Thanks

[l8kgrl]

Just wanted to say thanks to everyone on this site. Writing the above was almost like a journal entry for me as much as a question. I know I "shouldn't" need validation from others. Just getting all this out helped me feel better and see my own troubled thinking/feeling.

It's so easy to get caught in the emotional quicksand in our own minds and hearts.

[juju2]

Hi.

Sorry I didn't write sooner.

Just got home from work and then notice of furlough.

I think anytime a person is in a challenging relationship, as much support you can get is good.

Highly sensitive people take a toll on me.

No other way to say it.

You did what you could.  There is no warning, no class we can take on how to cope with this relationship.

I have to take very good self care.

And not beat myself up so much.

Hang in there.

j

[once removed]

upfront:

i want to give you the validation you are specifically asking for. at the same time, as your brother in recovery, i want to push you to the latter stages of recovery.

So many of the stories here seem to include the initial phase of effusive love, adoration, bonding, etc

the stages that a lot of us speak of are just identifying characteristics. youve identified. its safe to say you belong here. but if you get lost in those characteristics, you will get lost in those characteristics.

there are millions of people with bpd traits. its really, truly, not unlike dating an introvert, and finding things in common. youre gonna find those things in common, but the deeper you dig, the more youre going to find the unique aspects of your partner, and of your relationship. in other words, this doesnt work in a way where "you must be love bombed and have a 2 month honeymoon for them to have bpd". my ex and i were at war from day one, and i can see now, that was more about us.

I think part of what I’m struggling with is this: while we were together, he was still focused so much on his ex. After we broke up, he started seeing someone else very quickly.

The rational part of me sees this as to be expected for someone with emotional issues. The messed up part of me, though, feels like maybe the problem is that he just never loved me enough to devote himself to me, and now he’s found someone better who he’ll be happy with. Maybe our relationship wasn’t “real” but his new one will be.

I guess what I’m looking for is some validation that his behaviors do sound suggestive of BPD. I can’t diagnose him and neither can any of you, and at the end of the day it doesn’t matter whether he truly has BPD or not. But it really helps me to de-personalize this situation to recognize that he was, and is, incapable, of a healthy relationship, and that it has nothing to do with my own worth. Getting some validation and support from others is helpful for me in confirming that this was not a healthy situation and that it is not a reflection on my value as a person.

if you want me to tell you that this was not a healthy situation, or a reflection of your value as a person, im all in. i think thats clear.

but ill put it to you this way.

my ex left me for a guy, and was with him about a year longer than her and i were together. proof i was unloveable? no. proof that i was somehow inferior? no.

im going to guess that you have dated other men. i will guess that some of them, at this point, are married. is that proof of you as a failure as a human or romantic partner? probably not.

but im going to guess that this feels differently. that if they succeed, it means you failed. it doesnt, of course, any more than your previous relationships. and the fact very much is, whether or not hes capable of a healthy relationship, it has no bearing on your worth.

the hard thing that you have to detach from is that his relationship predated you. it loomed over your relationship, and after.

as much as you might prefer that it would fail, no one can guarantee that, and in fact, expecting it to will keep you stuck.

being that person in between is a wound of its own. whats hard is that almost all of us, if we really think about it, have been that person at one point. and inherently, necessarily, it can make you feel lesser than.

but its ultimately not about being better or lesser than. its about trying to compete with unfinished business, and in that equation, theres really no such thing.

[l8kgrl]

being that person in between is a wound of its own. whats hard is that almost all of us, if we really think about it, have been that person at one point. and inherently, necessarily, it can make you feel lesser than.

but its ultimately not about being better or lesser than. its about trying to compete with unfinished business, and in that equation, theres really no such thing.

Juju2, thank you for your reply, and I'm so sorry to hear about your furlough. That sounds so very stressful. Sending you a hug!

Once and again, I really appreciate your thoughtful response.

I love what you said about "being the person in between" being a wound of its own. So true. And I know it's no coincidence that I chose someone who was in that place; it fit right in with my own issues. This is a chance for me to look at those parts of myself and work on healing them.

I don't think I'm stuck on the BPD part...I just keep coming back to this board when I start spiralling emotionally, feeling like somehow "this is all about me." Getting some objectivity and perspective is REALLY helpful to me in those moments.

But you're right, there was so much about my r/s that was about him and me as people, not about BPD, codependency, whatever. And that's what's hard. There was the unhealthy part, and there was also real love there. I really, really loved him. There was a lot of good there despite the bad. I've never had to break up with someone who I was still in love with. I kind of can't believe I actually did it.

I'm trying to give myself compassion that it still hurts a lot. It's only been a matter of weeks, which I have to keep reminding myself...

[once removed]

i dont think i did the best job of saying what i was trying to say last night.

i also misread, forgive me, and was under the impression that he not only had unfinished business with his ex but got back with her (some of my advice was premised on that).

i reread your post, and your first post (when you came here). i would encourage you to reread it as well. its good to revist, from time to time.

it sounds like you feel like you put a great deal into a relationship with a guy that didnt put as much into it, and, emotionally, even put some of it elsewhere. and then to find him on dating sites quickly, yeah, thats a huge gut punch. youre right to feel that way.

it can make you feel small. less than. undeserving. not good enough.

it looks a little bit differently to me, than that.

it looks to me like you fell for a selfish and emotionally limited guy that you hoped you could love into, perhaps, loving more than he was capable of. that you couldnt, that he didnt recognize and appreciate what you had to offer, and that he seems to have moved on quickly, i can understand that would all seem to reinforce the idea that it was you.

im inclined to think that mentality probably predates him, he just seemed to confirm it all and open that wound wide. the silver lining is that wounds reopened have the opportunity to be healed properly.

but on the other hand, you did break up with him. you said, effectively, ive had enough of this, i deserve better. thats important.

But it really helps me to de-personalize this situation to recognize that he was, and is, incapable, of a healthy relationship, and that it has nothing to do with my own worth

maybe the two of you as an item were incapable of a healthy relationship, and it has nothing to do with your own worth, but the relationship still has a lot to teach you about your self worth.

I just keep coming back to this board when I start spiralling emotionally,

keep coming. its been nine years for me, and im still learning 

[l8kgrl]

Thank you, once removed, for taking the time to read and respond so thoughtfully. (And sorry, I got your name wrong in my earlier post!)

I think your assessment is pretty spot on. Of course, there were lots of good things there, too - he could be SO attentive, loving, charming, sweet, etc. There were a lot of ways he couldn't/wouldn't give, but other ways he really did.

I guess that's why we fall for these people - they fit with that old wound, but there's also that tantalizing promise that maybe they will heal it for us, too.

maybe the two of you as an item were incapable of a healthy relationship, and it has nothing to do with your own worth, but the relationship still has a lot to teach you about your self worth.

This part is absolutely true. It's what I'm working on. It's still hard to let go of that hope that somehow things could be different with him, even though I know logically that they won't. I even texted him last night and we talked briefly this morning - the first time we've had any contact in over a month. Just hearing his voice was painful.

I'm going to just keep moving forward, one foot in front of the other.

[l8kgrl]

So, a quick update. I've really been obsessing about my ex the past few days.

To the point that I texted him last night, after being NC for 5 weeks (8 weeks, if you don't count a super brief text exchange). We talked on the phone briefly this morning, and that confirmed for me that he is done and that it's 100% over (I think it was about 97% over in my mind).

So I've been feeling really sick and crying a lot today.

But it occurred to me that, in reference to Once removed's comment about self-worth and the opportunity to heal/learn from this:

Maybe the fact that I started obsessing about my ex again was just my own psyche fighting against moving forward and the change I'm trying to make. As crappy as it feels to keep believing that I'm somehow not enough, it's the "truth" my ego has used my whole life to make sense of things, and our brains like to fit things within these stories. So maybe this was just an attempt to revert to the (painful) "comfort" of the old belief system and the obsessing actually has little to do with my ex. This thought helps me feel a little better.

Can you tell I like to analyze things to death, ?

[JNChell]

Ok. It’s over and that hurts. Feeling sick and crying is grieving. Don’t push that aside.

The ego and what you’re currently feeling will work themselves out if you let them. It’s up to you.

[juju2]

Hi

I don't have more to add.

All I have today is that, if I can get into gratitude.

When I notice all day I gave been obsessing and no gratitude, it's a prescription for me to feel like shti.

Now being furloughed, I don't have work to occupy me.  Now I will be even more diligent to notice what is my mind doing and what are my thoughts.

I won't stop thoughts.

All I can attempt to do is add some gratitude and hope those take root.

Out of my thoughts come actions, my experiences.

Sincerely

j

[JNChell]

You are worthy and you need to stop questioning that. Maybe it’s not a question of one’s psyche. Maybe it’s just a relationship that is ending. I understand that you’re hurting, but you shouldn’t base one relationship and break up on the rest of your life. You have many miles to walk, and many people to meet. I understand how acute that this feels for you, but you’re going to be ok.

[l8kgrl]

You are worthy and you need to stop questioning that. Maybe it’s not a question of one’s psyche. Maybe it’s just a relationship that is ending. I understand that you’re hurting, but you shouldn’t base one relationship and break up on the rest of your life. You have many miles to walk, and many people to meet. I understand how acute that this feels for you, but you’re going to be ok.

Thank you JNChell. You're right, it's not good to over-dramatize about this one relationship. 

A good friend helped me realize today that although I'm sad about this r/s ending, a lot of it is being sad/afraid I'll never find the "right" person. I frankly am tired of looking. I thought I had found "the one" this time - someone who was smart, funny, kind, with shared values and interests, great chemistry and was committed to me. Which is why I tried so hard to make it work and overlooked red flags early on.

In the year before meeting ex-bf w uBPD, I had gone on dates with 30-40 people, plus 2 very brief r/s, and was so done with the entire dating thing.

I'm 46 and it's hitting me hard that this isn't where I thought I would be. I was married for 12 years to someone I was never in love with (that's another story) - it was a lonely and emotionally limited r/s. After divorcing I quickly fell into a good but ultimately incompatible r/s for about 2 years. Then the year of dating, then a year with this ex-bf uBPD.

After my divorce I was very hopeful of finding a much healthier, happier r/s that would be fulfilling for me and a good example for my kids.

This whole experience with ex-bf uBPD has just been more drama and loss after many years of other drama and loss (not at all the same kind of drama, but still exhausting). I know eventually I'll feel better, but in this moment I do not feel hopeful, I feel exhausted. Quarantine has just magnified the loneliness and anxiety like it has for so many people.

Despite all this, I'm still very aware that I have a lot to be grateful for and I do take time to absorb that. I know this too shall pass...thanks for listening...

[JNChell]

Getting older brings these fears. We want a relationship, sex, someone to talk to while we lay in bed together.

I’m 43 and I have a 5 year old son. I’m not where I thought that I would be either. I remember having a conversation with my best friend. We were gonna be at 25 with family in tow.

Aging out doesn’t have to be a thing. We went through a very long time of hardship and pain. You’re young and I’m sure very beautiful. If you judge yourself while coming out of your pain, you’ll slow yourself down.

Everything that you wanted broke against the rocks. Now, you don’t feel like you will ever find love. Getting older and dealing with what we deal with can be a gift. A whole bunch of goodies to share with that special someone.

[once removed]

A good friend helped me realize today that although I'm sad about this r/s ending, a lot of it is being sad/afraid I'll never find the "right" person. I frankly am tired of looking. I thought I had found "the one" this time - someone who was smart, funny, kind, with shared values and interests, great chemistry and was committed to me. Which is why I tried so hard to make it work and overlooked red flags early on.

this relationship and its outcome creates two different opportunities.

the first is to look for the meaning and the silver lining. to find healing, and emerge with an even greater capacity to love and to be loved than you ever had before.

the second is to succumb to the wounds. to shut off. to be afraid, hurt, wounded (this is actually natural and reasonable when things are fresh). to be less emotionally unavailable. that doesnt guarantee youll never meet anyone again, by any means. it does make it a great deal more likely that it will be less rewarding, possibly worse than that.

I had gone on dates with 30-40 people, plus 2 very brief r/s, and was so done with the entire dating thing.

this is partly the reality of the dating world. not everyone is a catch...not unlike the fact that not everybody will make a great best friend.

sometimes though, it can also tell us things about ourselves, what we are looking for, connecting with, avoiding, and what we are putting out there ourselves.

[Cromwell]

I was married for 12 years to someone I was never in love with (that's another story) - it was a lonely and emotionally limited r/s.

from start to finish,12 years is a long time to feel lonely and lack emotional connection. Must have been difficult to go through and how much do you think it had an impact on moving on afterwards?

[l8kgrl]

JNChell, thank you for your kind words, truly. And you're right, all that we learn from this can make us better partners in the future. And hopefully wiser to choose better partners for ourselves.

this relationship and its outcome creates two different opportunities.

the first is to look for the meaning and the silver lining. to find healing, and emerge with an even greater capacity to love and to be loved than you ever had before.

the second is to succumb to the wounds. to shut off. to be afraid, hurt, wounded (this is actually natural and reasonable when things are fresh). to be less emotionally unavailable. that doesnt guarantee youll never meet anyone again, by any means. it does make it a great deal more likely that it will be less rewarding, possibly worse than that.

this is partly the reality of the dating world. not everyone is a catch...not unlike the fact that not everybody will make a great best friend.

sometimes though, it can also tell us things about ourselves, what we are looking for, connecting with, avoiding, and what we are putting out there ourselves.

Once removed - yes, I will seize the silver lining. I'll be damned if all this pain is going to be for nothing!

Two things I for sure plan to do differently: 1) trust my gut. It's never been wrong, I've just ignored it way too many times. 2) escape from my scarcity mentality that tells me that there's never enough love and I just have to take whatever crumbs I can. I deserve someone who is an equal and who can give to me as much as I give to them.
 

[l8kgrl]

from start to finish,12 years is a long time to feel lonely and lack emotional connection. Must have been difficult to go through and how much do you think it had an impact on moving on afterwards?

from start to finish,12 years is a long time to feel lonely and lack emotional connection. Must have been difficult to go through and how much do you think it had an impact on moving on afterwards?

Cromwell, yes, it was hard. Early in my marriage, I was very emotionally limited myself. I didn't realize what real emotional intimacy was or that we didn't have it. It felt safe. We were kind to each other but we didn't share the important things. We then went through some very hard things over the years that were no one's fault, but when you can't emotionally cope with those things as partners, it just kills whatever little was there.

So yes, that experience definitely influenced who I choose now. I think I was partly drawn to my ex-bf with (suspected) BPD bc he is intense, charismatic, very alpha and also fun - basically opposite of my ex-husband. But I mistook emotional intensity for the capacity for emotional intimacy. Not the same thing. I'm learning.