I really am at my wits end

[AtWitsEnd13]

I do not even know where to begin... My wife has the traits of BPD, but I am not a doctor and she has not been diagnosed. We have been together for over 20 years and  it has been a rocky road to say the least. My goal is not to slander her, but I will share some info in the hopes of getting good feedback.
The term walking on eggshells certainly fits the bill. She will be in a great mood and love me more than life one moment and then despise everything about me the next (with no warning). Her main mission seems to be separating me from my parents as well as my brothers and sisters. There is never time for my family and she gets very mad whenever I talked to them on the phone (they live in another state). I am no saint, but I have no issue with her having daily interactions with her family and friends. I have no interactions with friends because she has run all of my friends off over the years. I like to call my mother on my commute to work and my spouse constantly goes online and checks my cellphone logs. If she notices that I called a family member she goes on a tirade... She accuses me of unspeakable things and calls me every name in the book. Eventually she calms down (could be hours, could be days).  Rinse repeat.
I know if I decide to throw in the towel I will have to quit my job and move as far away as practical. I know she will do anything and everything in her power to slander my name and destroy my relationship with our kids (2 are adult and 1 is an early teen).
She constantly reminds me of terrible things that I have done in the past. The problem is, her recollection of the past is nowhere near accurate. She remembers all kinds of things that never took place and she remembers this fiction in great detail.
Everything that happens to her is far worse than anything that happens to me. Her job is worse, her pain is worse, her childhood was worse (I will give her that one). It's a constant whoa is me.
This whole relationship and her ebbs and flows has me at a breaking point that I am unsure if I can recover from. I hate to leave my child in this situation, but I can not imagine what would happen if I tried to take my child away also. I am now willing to walk away from a very good job, a very nice house, and my child in the hopes of salvaging what is left of my sanity... before it is too late. Sorry if it sounds like I am whining
I can not stress enough that I do not hate my wife nor do I wish bad on her. Her mood swings and instability just make life hard. After 20 years I am just so tired of waiting for the other shoe to drop.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Rev]

I do not even know where to begin... My wife has the traits of BPD, but I am not a doctor and she has not been diagnosed. We have been together for over 20 years and  it has been a rocky road to say the least. My goal is not to slander her, but I will share some info in the hopes of getting good feedback.
The term walking on eggshells certainly fits the bill. She will be in a great mood and love me more than life one moment and then despise everything about me the next (with no warning). Her main mission seems to be separating me from my parents as well as my brothers and sisters. There is never time for my family and she gets very mad whenever I talked to them on the phone (they live in another state). I am no saint, but I have no issue with her having daily interactions with her family and friends. I have no interactions with friends because she has run all of my friends off over the years. I like to call my mother on my commute to work and my spouse constantly goes online and checks my cellphone logs. If she notices that I called a family member she goes on a tirade... She accuses me of unspeakable things and calls me every name in the book. Eventually she calms down (could be hours, could be days).  Rinse repeat.
I know if I decide to throw in the towel I will have to quit my job and move as far away as practical. I know she will do anything and everything in her power to slander my name and destroy my relationship with our kids (2 are adult and 1 is an early teen).
She constantly reminds me of terrible things that I have done in the past. The problem is, her recollection of the past is nowhere near accurate. She remembers all kinds of things that never took place and she remembers this fiction in great detail.
Everything that happens to her is far worse than anything that happens to me. Her job is worse, her pain is worse, her childhood was worse (I will give her that one). It's a constant whoa is me.
This whole relationship and her ebbs and flows has me at a breaking point that I am unsure if I can recover from. I hate to leave my child in this situation, but I can not imagine what would happen if I tried to take my child away also. I am now willing to walk away from a very good job, a very nice house, and my child in the hopes of salvaging what is left of my sanity... before it is too late. Sorry if it sounds like I am whining
I can not stress enough that I do not hate my wife nor do I wish bad on her. Her mood swings and instability just make life hard. After 20 years I am just so tired of waiting for the other shoe to drop.

Good morning Wits...

A tough situation for sure - and no you do not sound like you a whining.

20 years is a bit of milestone in terms of where we can be with our lives. It can cause reflection of all kinds. Being at your wits end can make discernment difficult.

So welcome to a place where there are people who will support you. Things during isolation are obviously difficult - and support groups for men are rare - but there are some. It's one thing that I might suggest to help you get a bit of perspective. Also there are counselors who do have experience from a man's perspective.

So - yeah - have you tried counselling or coaching? Just to re-calibrate your perspective would be a good thing. Regardless of the diagnosis, mood disorders have a snow globe effect on our own personalities and living with some who lives by what I call "emotions based facts" require strategies.

You sound quite grounded. Try and stay there.

What are your best hopes for reaching out here?

Have a great day.

Rev

[AtWitsEnd13]

I will be honest, I am not sure what I expect from here. It is refreshing, for lack of better word, to see that I am not the only one going through this madness. Maybe my goal was really just a vent session.

I/we have not tried any sort of counseling. To be honest I don't think she would ever go for it. In her mind I have the problem and not her. I am use to the mood swings at this point. I am just along for the ride until I put on my big boy pants and say enough. I have never met someone that dislikes so many people and that is so proud of holding eternal grudges. My theory is tomorrow is a new day, so why continue the battle. I can have a disagreement one day and the next is a clean slate. She can not or she refuses to let things go. Her resentment and grudges are mainly aimed at my family. She can quickly forgive the BS her mother and sister put her/us through. I am not sure how that works. Can an individual with this type of condition be selective on where and when it rears its ugly side? She is pretty level with our children... usually. The brunt of her moods and outbursts are directed at me, even if I had nothing to do with the situation at all.

Once again I do get a bit of comfort reading about others that are weathering the storm. Maybe misery does love company

[Rev]

I will be honest, I am not sure what I expect from here. It is refreshing, for lack of better word, to see that I am not the only one going through this madness. Maybe my goal was really just a vent session.

Once again I do get a bit of comfort reading about others that are weathering the storm. Maybe misery does love company

Then vent away!  Sometimes it really does good to speak to others who are "weathering the storm" as you say.   Have you listened to the book "Stop Walking on Eggshells"? Available on YouTube for free. A little dated but still a really good resource.

Also any by Craig Malkin (who writes about NPD but there are some things that he writes that apply - since NPD and BPD are pretty close cousins.)

Hang in there...  If you've made it this far then maybe you're not as close to your wits end as you think ? Maybe you just needed to say it to take a step back from it ? 

Rev

[AtWitsEnd13]

A few people have mentioned "Stop Walking on Eggshells", so I think it is worth checking out. Maybe just putting some words "on paper" will avoid keeping things inside for years at a time. I figure it doesn't hurt to try. I can get some things out to make room for the next issue that's sure to come up shortly.

Todays issue involves her new job that she starts today. She brought to my attention a few days ago that she had a job offer, but she wasn't sure if she should take it. I asked why... She is holding out for a specific job she really wants. I told her she could give this job a try and if the other one pans out make the switch. I helped her put together a counter offer for the job she was offered and the company accepted. I thought it was a win! Now today she calls me from the parking lot of the new job and says she is wasting her time. I assumed that since she mentioned the job to me that she must be interested at least. I figured it was a positive step due to the fact she has been seeking employment for about 7 months. So it is now my fault that she took this job that she did not want. I guess we will see what this evening brings

[PeteWitsend]

... Her main mission seems to be separating me from my parents as well as my brothers and sisters. There is never time for my family and she gets very mad whenever I talked to them on the phone (they live in another state). I am no saint, but I have no issue with her having daily interactions with her family and friends. I have no interactions with friends because she has run all of my friends off over the years. I like to call my mother on my commute to work and my spouse constantly goes online and checks my cellphone logs. If she notices that I called a family member she goes on a tirade... She accuses me of unspeakable things and calls me every name in the book. Eventually she calms down (could be hours, could be days).  Rinse repeat.

I went through a similar hell.  In fact this same issue played the largest part in my decision to divorce.  I was prepared to tolerate her treatment of me - solely for the kids' sake - but the way my XW would treat my family, especially my mom and my brother, and my friends was over the line.  My XW seemed to sense this, so she would push even harder on this issue.  It was really bizarre.  if I so much as mentioned I spoke with my mom, she would go from 0 to 60 in a second, and turn into a raving lunatic.  I'll never forget the look on her face when she would get like that, her pupils dilated, talking over everything I said... yikes.  All for what reason? 

My kids are younger, and I was not prepared to tolerate her attempts to isolate me and my kids from my family.  She would go so far as to allege my family members would assault our kids, and claim my relationship with my parents was "sick" and "infantile" while of course, she would call her parents every day, and eventually insisted her mom move in with us... but it was "different" when she did it.

I know if I decide to throw in the towel I will have to quit my job and move as far away as practical.

Why would you need to move away?  Can you stay nearby, tough it out for a couple years til your youngest goes to college, then move?

I know she will do anything and everything in her power to slander my name and destroy my relationship with our kids (2 are adult and 1 is an early teen).
 …

Yes!  Your XW will absolutely do this.  however, it may or may not matter (if you have a good relationship with your kids, it probably won't), and regardless you should not let this control your decision making. 

In my own case, I was concerned about this as well.  And my kids were young, and so I worried, more impressionable & unable to stand up for themselves if my XW would guilt trip and manipulate them. 

I have a child psychologist for them, and he told me not to worry about it.  The advice he gave me was to simply be there for my kids, answer their questions honestly, and let them make up their own minds if their mom put them in any awkward spots.  He said kids figure things out on their own, and can see through obvious falsehoods. 

I've been divorced for over a year now & this hasn't been a problem.  My kids are always happy to see me, although both have confided in me things their mom has said about me or my family.  I always just tell them I don't agree with her, that people can disagree and have different views of things, but it's up to them to make up their own minds and decide what they believe.  So far, so good... they seem to appreciate the fact that they can be honest with me, and I won't yell at them for having their own view, or disagreeing with me. 

... I am now willing to walk away from a very good job, a very nice house, and my child in the hopes of salvaging what is left of my sanity...

I also had to weigh the concern for my kids' wellbeing, the mental and financial cost of the divorce against the promise of getting away.  The things that finally tipped the scale for me were: 1) like I said above, I wasn't willing to let her dictate when I could and couldn't see my family and friends, and keep my kids from contact with my parents/their grandparents, and my extended family, and 2) I didn't want me kids to see the way my XW acted toward me, and grow up thinking that was acceptable.   

[mstnghu]

I do not even know where to begin... My wife has the traits of BPD, but I am not a doctor and she has not been diagnosed. We have been together for over 20 years and  it has been a rocky road to say the least. My goal is not to slander her, but I will share some info in the hopes of getting good feedback.
The term walking on eggshells certainly fits the bill. She will be in a great mood and love me more than life one moment and then despise everything about me the next (with no warning). Her main mission seems to be separating me from my parents as well as my brothers and sisters. There is never time for my family and she gets very mad whenever I talked to them on the phone (they live in another state). I am no saint, but I have no issue with her having daily interactions with her family and friends. I have no interactions with friends because she has run all of my friends off over the years. I like to call my mother on my commute to work and my spouse constantly goes online and checks my cellphone logs. If she notices that I called a family member she goes on a tirade... She accuses me of unspeakable things and calls me every name in the book. Eventually she calms down (could be hours, could be days).  Rinse repeat.
I know if I decide to throw in the towel I will have to quit my job and move as far away as practical. I know she will do anything and everything in her power to slander my name and destroy my relationship with our kids (2 are adult and 1 is an early teen).
She constantly reminds me of terrible things that I have done in the past. The problem is, her recollection of the past is nowhere near accurate. She remembers all kinds of things that never took place and she remembers this fiction in great detail.
Everything that happens to her is far worse than anything that happens to me. Her job is worse, her pain is worse, her childhood was worse (I will give her that one). It's a constant whoa is me.
This whole relationship and her ebbs and flows has me at a breaking point that I am unsure if I can recover from. I hate to leave my child in this situation, but I can not imagine what would happen if I tried to take my child away also. I am now willing to walk away from a very good job, a very nice house, and my child in the hopes of salvaging what is left of my sanity... before it is too late. Sorry if it sounds like I am whining
I can not stress enough that I do not hate my wife nor do I wish bad on her. Her mood swings and instability just make life hard. After 20 years I am just so tired of waiting for the other shoe to drop.

I can relate to pretty much everything you wrote...except that my wife and I have been together for a total of almost 13 years and I can't imagine making it anywhere near 20!   

My wife also is undiagnosed but she has many BPD traits. She actually found out a few years ago that I was confiding with close friends/family about suspecting her of having a personality disorder and she went completely ballistic. Her mom and stepdad even came over to my house and sat me down to try to give me an "intervention" to get me to never tell anybody about her having a personality disorder again. I actually felt somewhat threatened by them. I think their only reason for the "intervention" is because my MIL is very narcissistic and if her daughter has a personality disorder, it's a bad reflection on herself and she can't handle that. Her husband is under complete control of her and he basically came along for reinforcement. He can't stand up to her in any situation.

I can very much relate to how your wife treats your family and friends. My wife has attempted to sabotage almost every relationship I have. My friends normally only call me on my work phone so they don't "get me in trouble". Even talking to or texting my own family members gets my wife upset. She also checks the cell phone records religiously and constantly interrogates me about communication I have with everybody! She talks badly about all of my friends and family behind their backs, but she's at least friendly with most of my family now. Fortunately, they've all seen the cracks in her facade over the years. She's also lashed out at many of them at different times throughout our relationship. All of my friends and family know what she's really like and none of them trust her. I used to feel really alone until one night I asked my brother out to dinner so I could confide in him as to how bad things were at home. His response after I laid it all out for him: "WE ALL KNOW SHE'S CRAZY!"...Up until then, I didn't think anybody would believe me if I told them about how she REALLY was when they weren't around.

You came to the right place and you're definitely not alone here!

[AtWitsEnd13]

It defiantly helps to get the perspective from other folks and to know others are going through a lot of the same daily trials. I do not wish this daily (minutely) struggle on anyone, but it is nice to no I am not the only one on this island.

As an update, my spouse just left for her 3rd day at her new job. She is not happy about the new adventure, but I give her credit for going. I little background... When we first got together and really up to about 2 years ago she always held a job. A company she worked for merged and rendered her unemployed about 2 years ago and since that time she has worked about 3 months total. No job is ever the right fit. To be fair in she would stay off Amazon we could survive on my income. She likes to shop and complains about being bored, so I encouraged her to get back into the workforce. There was a lot of tension in the air as she got ready for work and I was no worthy of a kiss on her way out the door. On a good note the tension left as she drove away.

I truly am trying to help her with her negative self image. She has constant issues with her weight as of late. We are both getting older (rapidly approaching the big 50) and we are not in the same shape as we were in our 30's. She wants to join a gym but the current state of the Nation doesn't really support this idea. So I took it upon my self to get a treadmill, recumbent exercise bike, an elliptical, and got us both bikes. I support her desire to lose some pounds, but I do not make comments about her needing to do so. Where I am going with this is...  Her negative self image regarding her weight seems to be a huge factor in her mood. I try to include her in activities that I enjoy. I got her a set of golf clubs so we can walk 9 holes a few times a week. She was standoffish regarding the whole golf idea at first, but really seems to enjoy it now. The only down side is, now she gets mad if I go golfing with anyone else. It is as if she thinks I am replacing her when I do.

Life isn't all bad. When things are going good it's enjoyable. If I could limit the mood swings and somehow get her to shed the grudges she holds towards my family things would be soo much better. I will continue to take it one day at a time. I just need to be prepared for the blow back when I call my mother or other family members.

Thank you for all the support, advice, and encouragement!

[AtWitsEnd13]

I failed to answer the question that was asked about why I would have to quit my job and move away if I decided to end the marriage. Mainly because she would become a worse stalker than she has already been. I know she would go out of her way to ruin my job and reputation with my employer. She can de very vindictive and hopefully distance would mitigate her ability to do damage. Maybe out of sight would eventually equal out of mind. Hopefully I can figure out a tactful way of getting us some kind of counseling that may help and I don't have to give up on my marriage.

[PeteWitsend]

I failed to answer the question that was asked about why I would have to quit my job and move away if I decided to end the marriage. Mainly because she would become a worse stalker than she has already been. I know she would go out of her way to ruin my job and reputation with my employer. She can de very vindictive and hopefully distance would mitigate her ability to do damage. Maybe out of sight would eventually equal out of mind. Hopefully I can figure out a tactful way of getting us some kind of counseling that may help and I don't have to give up on my marriage.

Well, I hope for your sake, if she can keep the dysregulation to a minimum, you can stay together.  Maybe with exercise, she can keep her BPD-traits more mild. 

But don't let her possible high-conflict behavior keep you in the marriage if you're unhappy.  neither of you will benefit in the long run.

If she stalks you or tries to ruin your career, you can fight back.  Presumably there would be evidence of this, which you could take to court.  the judge will not look kindly on it, and you may be able to get a TRO against her, or a permanent one.  You have to document everything and let your attorney fight for you...

I was worried about some of these same things, but I realized after our first hearing my XW was pretty scared in court, and that kept a check on her behavior.  She would text me plenty of veiled threats, imply she was going to allege I had a drinking problem, things like that.  I ignored them, and they never came up in the proceedings.

a litigant can allege whatever they want; but they have to prove it in court, which: 1) costs them money, and 2) can easily backfire when  they don't actually have evidence.

[once removed]

hi AtWitsEnd13, and

there are a lot of moving parts here.

20 years is a long time.

undoubtedly, there are so many cherished memories. and from the sound of it, a lot of struggles.

those struggles, by now, are fairly ingrained into your relationship. they can change, they can get better, but you must understand they didnt develop over night, they will not be eradicated over night, and, frankly, you dont want to bite off more than you can chew, too quickly. but for example, yes, ideally you want to move to a dynamic where you have contact with your family (a strong support system is a must), but doing so wont be a simple task.

why dont we start there. it sounds like this is a big one. whats her beef with your family, in her words?

[AtWitsEnd13]

In her mind whenever I talk to other people, mainly my family, I must be talking negatively about her. This is not the case. In the past I have vented to my mother because she is a good listener and doesn't pass judgement. It has been years since I shared anything regarding my marriage with any member of my family. I have found it is best not to drag others into my mess.

[once removed]

In the past I have vented to my mother because she is a good listener and doesn't pass judgement.

does your wife know about this? if so, it could be a sticking point.

regardless, can you put things in your wifes words? can you give us some of the back and forth, what she says, what you say?

she thinks you must be talking negatively. what does she think youre saying? why?

[AtWitsEnd13]

In the past (years ago) when speaking with my mother I vent about being in trouble for reasons that I could not figure out. I never got into specifics or details. Now I just stay off of the topic all together.

I will not get into detail on the things my wife will say when she is mad. if I did I would run the risk of getting banned from this site The conversations would essentially involve my spouse questioning me on why I talk to my mom when she is not around. It is true that most of my dialog with my mother takes place when I am alone, because I use my commute to work as a time to chat. It has nothing to do with the fact I am not within earshot of my wife. It's just a convenient time for me. My spouse would then accuse me of phone sex with my mother (that's even hard to type). When my spouse goes off the rails there is no topic that is taboo or off the table for the insults.

 

[PeteWitsend]

In the past (years ago) when speaking with my mother I vent about being in trouble for reasons that I could not figure out. I never got into specifics or details. Now I just stay off of the topic all together.

I will not get into detail on the things my wife will say when she is mad. if I did I would run the risk of getting banned from this site The conversations would essentially involve my spouse questioning me on why I talk to my mom when she is not around. It is true that most of my dialog with my mother takes place when I am alone, because I use my commute to work as a time to chat. It has nothing to do with the fact I am not within earshot of my wife. It's just a convenient time for me. My spouse would then accuse me of phone sex with my mother (that's even hard to type). When my spouse goes off the rails there is no topic that is taboo or off the table for the insults.

 

LOL, I went through this same thing.  Wife wouldn't like me having contact with my own mother (she also had problems with my aunt and step-grandma... basically any woman in my life, from coworkers, to friend's wives, and my own relatives).

It's their extreme paranoia.  and their lack of an "adult" filter that allows them to pretty much "go wherever" when fighting.

I kind of put my foot down on this stuff; I'd just leave the house whenever it would start after a while.  She backed off it a bit; the last couple years, she stopped making the unhinged accusations about my mom. 

She did however, keep accusing me of wanting to sleep with other women at work, and kept picking fights about my mom & my family in general right up until we were divorced!

[once removed]

what is the relationship between your mom and your wife like in practice?

[AtWitsEnd13]

My wife can be ok to my mother when the mood suites her. I won't pretend my mother is a huge fan, but she treats my wife with respect.

[once removed]

tension with the in laws is a tale as old as time.

I won't pretend my mother is a huge fan, but she treats my wife with respect.

i suspect that your wife can feel the former.

you love someone who is hypersensitive to perceived criticism, slights, and who generally distrusts the world, loved ones, etc.

the issue is multifaceted.

youve involved your mom and sought support from her. in doing so, she sides with you, and against your wife. any mom would, but dont underestimate the fact that this widens the divide.

your wife says really over the top, nasty things about you and your mother. you dont want to tolerate disrespect at that level. and now, i suspect, if and when you try and nip it in the bud, she will escalate and bait you, and cut deep. thats not to say you shouldnt (nip it in the bud), it is to say you need to work all sides of this. draw hard lines on the disrespect, but change your approach when it comes to seeking support, and otherwise build trust with your wife.

how are things going? i think if you really want to improve things, you need to get hardcore about this, not just take it day by day.