Wife wants a divorce

[KeepingHope]

Hello, new user here.  I just stumbled across the website doing some online searches.

A little background.  I have been with my wife for 23 years, married almost 19 years now.  We have two kids.  She is diagnosed Bipolar and BPD.  She has been hospitalized twice.  She has been usually pretty good about taking medication and going to therapy and all of that.  Sometimes are better than others as far as her condition goes.

A little over 2 months ago she filed for a divorce.  And 2 weeks ago she got an apartment and left home.  After filing and before leaving she was really back and forth in her moods, sometimes we would get along great and laugh and have fun, sometimes she was very cold, distant, and mean.  Since she left I have barely spoken to her, only when she came back to get things, and she has been nothing but mean.

One of the things she has always struggled with is extreme paranoia.  Most of the time I handle it well, but sometimes I mess up and let it get to me.  This is one thing I am hoping to handle better and use some of the resources I found on this site instead of trying to figure it out on my own.  This has been one of the biggest sore spots in our marriage for a long time.

So when this current situation all started she basically told me that she "knows" I am cheating on her and have forever, that I try to make her feel bad, and the only reason she has to take all these medications for the last 15 years is to put up with me.  I have not cheated on her though.  For example just before she left she insisted I got a phone call very early in the morning and hid it from her.  She said she heard the phone ring, heard me answer, and checked the time.  The only thing is, that never happened.  So it is an impossible position for me.  I find myself in a lot of impossible situations like that where she insists things happened that did not or where any answer I give her is wrong.  She also kept accusing me of trying to poison her and refused to eat family meals that I prepared, even though our kids and I were eating them.  Things like that.  I could list so many examples.  The thing is though, it isn't always like this but it always comes back.

I know I am not perfect and that I can continue to learn the correct way to handle some of these things.  Right now though she wants absolutely nothing to do with me.  At first I tried to ask her to work with me on our marriage and I asked her what she would need different from me to make it work then I started working on those things myself.  After that she just got more angry and distant and told me she has never been happy and she is repulsed by me.  So since then I have been just basically "whatever" towards her and going about my business letting her do whatever it is she wants to go off and do hoping that eventually she will flip again and want to come home.  But, I really do love her very much.  I care a lot about her and I am worried a lot not only for our marriage and our kids but for her wellbeing also.  Right at the same time she filed for divorce she changed her therapist and her medications.  She has told me that she feels great and is thinking very clearly and that all is perfect, but I know all is not perfect because she was still doing these things.

She has for a long time talked about divorce, either she wants one, she is afraid I want one, she thinks I should want one and I need to leave for myself, back to everything is good, repeat.  I don't want to get a divorce, which I have consistently told her.  I want to work on the things needed for us to improve our relationship and I want to be there for her.  I guess I am just looking for some advice about what is the best way to get her to come home and work with me on this.  I know it is probably hard from the little info I have typed in here but any advice would be appreciated.  We have gone through bad times and good times before, but she has never left home and never actually filed for divorce.

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[juju2]

Welcome KH

Am sorry to hear what you are going thru.

You are in the right place.

I hope you have a good friend you can share your concerns who does not judge.

As hard as it sounds, stay stable, kind, dependable.
It sounds like her meds aren't doing good for her.

I pray a lot.  I believe in prayer.  Sometimes all I can pray is help.

Hang in there.

juju

[KeepingHope]

Thanks JuJu

As of now she still wants nothing to do with me.  She is still forcing divorce and won't speak to me at all.  She texts me about seeing the kids and that's it.

I am not sure what else to do.  I just keep focusing on myself and my kids.  Trying to learn what I can and hope she eventually gives me an opportunity.  But right now I am still to blame for everything.

So far I haven't been reaching out to her.  Just letting her do whatever and hope for her to call or something.  No luck on that yet though.  I am not sure if there is much else I can do.

[Limepie]

Hi Brother, keep hope!

Your situation sounds quite recognizable, my wife does show similar traits quite often, but till this day it have been mostly signs of unhappiness and disgust towards me, threathening with divorce. She regularly says the only reason she does not is that she cares about the children. But perhaps there comes a day when she makes this decision for real too...which is your case.

Perhaps you can make a list for yourself with all pros and cons of keeping the family together. And then analyze what weighs most, while taking into account forseeing how the upcoming 10 years will look like and result. Will it be worth it? For your own health and happiness? And what about the impact on the childrens personal development? Will the positives of sticking together outweigh the negative effects which comes with BDP territory?

I struggle with this myself, but a divorce in my situation would mean a hostile one and high risk of mental dangers for my kids...that is why I am quite desperate what to do too...feeling trapped!

Wish you the best bro!

[KeepingHope]

Thanks.  Yes it is a tough place to be.  She still isn't talking to me yet.  It is hard because I am so upset with what is happening now, how evil she has become lately, and the effects on our children.  Right now she is trying to punish me for things that never happened.  Completely ignoring everything I have done to keep our family together.  But, at the same time, I honestly do still love her.  And I have seen many times where she gets like this and then completely flips back.  It is almost like two completely different people.

So anyway, yeah right now I am just trying to keep up hope and take care of myself and the kids.

[Limepie]

Hi bro,

That ís sad to hear, feeling shut out by her. Is she happier now by doing this? More ease of mind?
Perhaps think about the longterm practical goals you both have and how it can be fullfilled. On my behalf, finding peace and happiness for ourselves and eachother is what I aim for.

[KeepingHope]

Hi Limepie,

I am honestly not sure if she is happier or not.  I don't see or talk to her at all, still haven't.  She sometimes sends emails about stuff to do with the kids, scheduling mostly.  Sometimes they are blunt and direct and to the point.  Sometimes they are mean and like she is trying her best to hurt me.  I do my best to ignore that and I only answer when it is required.  I have only seen her a couple times in the past 6 or 7 weeks when she has picked up stuff from the house.  I said hi and stayed away in the other room.

I definitely agree about peace and happiness for the both of us.  At the moment it seems like I am just going to have to find that for myself on my own and not worry about her at all.  Who knows what will happen in the long term.  Maybe she will never re-think this, maybe she will, either way I don't expect it anytime soon if she does.  Although I am still keeping a hope that she will.

[Medic1]

Hi KeepingHope

I'm really sorry to hear about your situation. You could be excused for thinking there was no hope, but conversely you've named yourself "KeepingHope". Have you got anyone else close apart from your wife who's "in" on the situation?

Also how are the kids taking it?

[KeepingHope]

Hi Medic,

Yes, I am keeping my hope that we can get through this and work everything out.  Some days are better than others.  I am trying to be the best "me" that I can while also not giving up on turning it around.  We have had struggles in the past including one major one where she asked me to leave, that was 7 years ago.  I agreed to stay somewhere else for a week and give her some space, I ended up away from home for 6 months before she asked me to come back.  During that time she retained a lawyer but did not file the paperwork.  When it was all ready she instead called me and asked me to come back.  So it did get very close.  At the end of that 6 months, just when I was giving up, is when she called.

Due to her Bipolar and BPD conditions, she has very strong paranoia but also a lot of delusions as well.  She believes a lot of things like I have been lying and cheating on her, I emotionally abuse her to control her, I was trying to poison her, I am an abusive alcoholic, etc.  Of course those things are not true but she believes them.  She would tell me things she has seen or heard that are just a false reality.  The most recent example is the phone call I think I mentioned previously.  She says she heard my phone ring and looked at the clock and it was 6:40 am.  She confronted me about it later that night.  I had no phone call so she says I have a second phone.  She then says I am lying and want her to believe she is crazy so I can get away with the things I am doing.  She knows she has had these delusions, she has talked with me a lot about some of them.  When she saw or heard people or things that weren't there.  But, when she is in that place she doesn't know it is not real because it is real to her.  Right before she left she was blaming me for her mental conditions and saying that if I wasn't in her life all would be good.

Over the years I have seen her go up and down with this type of thing.  It is a big struggle for her.  It is hard on her and me and our marriage.  We both know that it always be something we have to deal with.  So sometimes she thinks I would be better off without her and that will start all the separation/divorce talk, or sometimes like now she thinks it is all my fault.  Sometimes she wants me gone, sometimes she worries I will run and she will be alone, sometimes everything is great.  It is a rollercoaster for sure.

I feel if we can ever work this out we need to have a better support setup.  This time she changed her medicine and a week later dropped her therapist, filed for divorce, and got a new counselor.  Another month goes by while I am trying to work it out and she drops a bunch more medicine and then another week later she gets an apartment and leaves.  So I really worry about her mental health right now also.

That was kind of a lot, but to answer your questions, I have a therapist I have been talking to and that is helping me deal with things.  I have also been talking a little bit with friends and family but they are not "in" on all those details.  They know she has a condition but they don't know all that stuff.  And I don't want to over share things that would be upsetting to her if she ever did come back.  They pretty much think I need to give up and move on but they are understanding too.

The kids are taking it okay.  They don't like going to spend too much time with her but I think that is just because they would rather be home than at the new apartment.  They are unhappy about the situation.  They have said so to both of us.  On the day to day though they seem to be doing well, seeming the same as before for the most part basically.  They also each did a counselor session right after she first moved out and neither of them wanted to continue that.
 

[once removed]

it really sounds like youre playing your best cards here. sometimes, thats all we can do.

part of reconciling this relationship though, is understanding what broke things down, where, and when...and how they are going to change.

what precipitated her moving out?

[KeepingHope]

Hi Once Removed,
Thanks, I am trying to.

That is a good point.  I can only really say from my point of view.  She did talk to me a lot during the time after filing for divorce and before leaving.  Although I am not sure what parts of what she said were true, looking back it is easy to see she was hiding a lot during that time. 

For me I need to be able to handle the episodes she has better.  I need to be sure to validate and not JADE.  I had not learned about those things before this happened, so I do think I am in a better place now.  In the past I would sometimes validate her and also sometimes JADE her.  Especially when I let her accusations get to me.  So I would need to really be in control of my emotions when that happens.
Also, looking back over the past few months before this all started I should have been more aware and handled things differently.  She was buying a lot of stuff online, multiple packages arriving each day.  This is historically a bad sign for her.  She normally wants a lot of attention and us time, and she wants me to put the effort into that.  I would try to do things with her but as she declined more and more I got more and more discouraged and spent that time doing other things.  So while I still tried to make efforts there, they were obviously not the ones she wanted.  And anytime she declined, I would just go on doing whatever without her.  I need a better plan for this also.  Based on some of the things she said right before leaving I think she feels that I didn't care anymore.  I am not sure yet of the answer and I think we would need to work through it together to find the right one.

Just before this started she changed some medicines, then she dropped her therapist, then she filed for divorce, then she changed medicines again, then she moved out.  That was all in 2 months.  So there was a lot of turmoil there in her treatment.  If we are going to work this out part of the requirement from my perspective is that we need a team approach to this.  Her psychologist and therapist don't talk, I don't talk with them, we need to all 4 be a team.  She basically told me that she is good and that she only needs and takes the medicine to deal with me.  That I have been doing all these things and making her think she is crazy just to cover it up and control her.

I also think we need to have ongoing marriage counseling.  Since these issues come up over and over we will need support again in the future.  The last time we had a major issue, we went to counseling and worked it out, and we were good for a long while.  But it came back again later and without that support there we ended up back in the same situation again.  I think if we would have been able to catch and work on it earlier and with an unbiassed outside opinion we might not be in this situation now.

I have also learned a lot in the past months about marriage, relationships, Bipolar, and BPD.  Spending quite a lot of time on research and learning.  I have been working on myself as well.  No one is perfect and there is always room for improvement.  I have a list of different ideas that I think would be helpful for us.  Maybe one day we can talk through and try some of them.

Any other thoughts or suggestions are welcome.  Those are just the things I have thought about that would definitely help us stay in a better place.

[once removed]

you have pretty good insight into what it would take to get this relationship on a healthier trajectory...thats critical.

she has, evidently, a great deal of resentment. the hard part about all of this is, even if you had the keys to that resentment, even if you could undo it, you arent really in a position to do that right now.

you dont always have to have a willing partner in order to get the relationship to a level that is more tolerable. but if shes unwilling to talk, and is pushing for a divorce, there is a lot you can learn, but little you can do.

i would encourage you to make use of our Family Law board, and work on a plan there.

meanwhile, when is the last time the two of you did speak? what is the status of the divorce?

[KeepingHope]

Thanks, I will check the family law board out also.

I have not really talked to her since the day she left two months ago.  We have had emails though.  They were mostly about the kids, arrangements, appointments, stuff like that.  A couple were about her coming to pick up things, which she did twice.  She came while I was working, I said a friendly hello and let her in and then went back to work.  Both times she left without saying anything.  I haven't contacted her, just answered her emails where necessary.  At first her emails were mean and insulting even when just passing on information about the kids.  As time has gone on they became more plain information without all of that.

Pretty much nothing has happened with the divorce though.  She filed it, we haven't done anything or discussed anything.  She is not trying to settle or anything.  I don't really try and read into that, it could mean anything or it could mean nothing.

Right now I am really just trying to prepare as much as I can so that if she does want to come back I will be in the best position for turning this around.  We have been through similar things a couple times in the last 19 years and I have seen her ups and downs with this.  The last time took about 6 months until she changed her mind.  Although this one is obviously worse as she never filed for divorce before.

[once removed]

I don't really try and read into that, it could mean anything or it could mean nothing.

i think thats wise. there are a lot of reasons people drag their feet in divorce...and they can just be all over the place.

if she does want to come back I will be in the best position for turning this around.

this is especially wise. its what "reversing a breakup" is all about. because if she comes back, you dont want the relationship to just pick up where it left off. that will just result in more pain.

tell us more about what the breaking points have been in this relationship.

it sounds like shes a very jealous type and has accused you of cheating a lot. this isnt uncommon here (my ex was a jealous type and i didnt handle it so well). im wondering what the bigger picture around this is. was it the reason she gave for leaving? is there more to it?

what led to her being hospitalized?

[KeepingHope]

She was hospitalized shortly after our 2nd son was born.  At the time it was a big shock to me, it seemed to come from nowhere.  For her she was dealing with it internally for awhile before I knew.  She broke down one day, was really contemplating suicide, was having hallucinations, seeing people and hearing things that weren't there.  She stayed in the hospital for 3 weeks.  She was diagnosed bipolar and bpd.  The second time was about a year later and very similar.

The cheating accusations started around the same time.  She was always a little of the jealous type before that but she had not openly been accusing me of cheating.  From then on she was very different in a lot of ways.  One of them was the cheating thing.  She would look for signs, make up signs, invent things that never happened, etc.

She developed a cycle where she would think terrible things about me and accuse me of them.  Then she would think how bad she was for me and that I would be happier without "having to put up with her crazy".  Then everything would be awesome and the world was great.  I tried a lot of approaches to the accusations over the years.  Nothing really seemed to help.  More and more I was doing the eggshell walk.  Then one day she kicked me out of the house.  I spent 6 months living with family.  Probably doing all the wrong things to convince her.  Still she eventually asked me to come back.  We saw a marriage counselor, things got better for awhile, she still eventually went back to the same cycles.  That was about 7 years ago.

This time around she accused me of cheating on her, lying, trying to poison her, being an abusive alcoholic,  trying to control her by making her think she was crazy.  She said that she has been medicating herself all these years because of me and that there is really nothing wrong with her.  That I want her to think she is crazy so I can get away with all of these things.  I think this was the most extreme I have seen from her in the past 15 years.  I have been very worried about her wellbeing.

As for breaking points the biggest one is the accusations and how I handled them.  Sometimes I would do well and then sometimes not so well.  Usually I would not handle them well if it was repeated frequently over a long time period.  I definitely need to have a better approach for that.
The alchohol thing was a big one in the last year also.  She has accused me of being drunk when I wasn't drinking at all.  Or if we went out to dinner and I had a beer she might call me an alcoholic.
The other big one I think is she says I am not open enough with her about my feelings.   Mostly I feel I am.  Except for trying not to JADE when she accuses me.  Thinking back on this complaint though I think it is because she doesn't believe what I tell her.  She thinks that I am just saying what I think she wants to hear or that I am lying to cover something up.  It is like if she feels I should be upset about something and I am not then she thinks I am lying.  Maybe if something doesn't bother me and she thinks it should.  A lot of how she thinks I should feel if it doesn't match with how I actually feel.  Good or bad feelings.

One other thing I noticed is she seems to incorporate other people's issues.  Like, 2 of her uncles were cheating and got divorced, then she started accusing me.  Her dad got really bad about drinking and had to go to rehab, then she started accusing me.

Well, that was a lot of text.  I do want to have some better approaches to these things if I do have another opportunity.  Right now nothing much has changed.  We haven't really talked in over 2 months.  I have no idea what she is thinking now or how she is doing.  Thanks again for taking time to help me.  I do still hope for us to fix this and have a better future together.

[once removed]

you may have a partner higher on the spectrum than most here.

i say that neither to give you hope nor lessen your hope...lower on the spectrum, higher, those are not necessarily indicative of success rates.

i say that to get across that it sounds like she is really struggling mentally and emotionally, and has been for a while.

you detail a number of things where the tools can help, where changing your approach can help. there are a myriad of tools for dealing with a jealous...mildly or especially, partner. this is a great discussion on the subject: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=78324.0

youre in a situation that is, right now, and i rarely say this, pretty dependent on her mental well being.

having a child (first, second, third, fourth, fifth) is a life changing event. the best, the strongest of us, may struggle mightily, and it sounds like your wife was/is. contemplating suicide, hallucinations, these are serious, major signs.

She said that she has been medicating herself all these years because of me and that there is really nothing wrong with her.  That I want her to think she is crazy so I can get away with all of these things.  I think this was the most extreme I have seen from her in the past 15 years.  I have been very worried about her wellbeing.

bipolar patients tend to respond positively to, but are infamous for neglect or outright refusal to take medication. a bit of "im good now", on the lighter end, or "someone is trying to control me" on the more extreme end, are not uncommon.

it sounds like your wife hit a breaking point, or a few breaking points, really significant stressors in her life. pushing for divorce, no doubt, may be both a result and a part of that. not moving forward on it may or may not be, as well.

[KeepingHope]

Thanks once removed.  I appreciate your insights. I am going to read the other thread you mentioned.