Lost About All Of It

[ahe]

Hi, I'm really fortunate that I found this place.

I have a girlfriend with BPD and ever since we've started dating she's threatened to break up with me. It's always really hard to hear. But I'm part of the problem as well. I'm selfish and she says I dont care about her and that I dont see her. I think I might be the problem in the relationship because I feel like she's right. I feel like I do care about her and I love her (I tell her that and she doesnt believe me). I'm also really depressed (I've been like this since childhood) and have terrible self esteem, and I have adhd and asperger's. When she calls me retard or anything like that, I believe it because it matches my inner dialog.

I guess I'm not so sure anymore if I'm a good person. I know that I do bad things and I've hurt her (never physically) and, to be honest, I am sometimes scared of her. I'm trying to say that I'm not perfect. I try to take responsibility for my actions. I just always seem to mess things up and make her more upset at me. She gets upset at me because I've done something to hurt her, but a lot of these things I felt like I did to try to help. But I'm not innocent either.

I feel like in the beginning, I felt better and had more self esteem but I also feel like I've lost that. I dont feel comfortable seeing friends or family because she'll say I'm allowed to and I'll make a plan and then she gets really upset at me. So I really don't have a lot of socializing.

I make everything about me because I always end up in tears when she gets upset at me. And then she calls me a victim and gets even more upset, and then I cry again and she calls me a baby or a mamas boy (she said I was my moms tampon and other stuff like that). I know that I have to break the cycle by not taking things personally but I have a really hard time doing so because I already feel so bad about myself that her name calling confirms how i feel inside. I tried telling her that and she just says I'm being a victim and that I dont care about her so why should she care about me.
It's hard not to cry when you're being called retard, faggot, mamas boy, loser, or when you're told that you are sucking you moms tits.

We both go to counseling and we've gone to eachothers counseling and both counselors have said that she's really hard on me. My counselor told me she's abusive to me. But my girlfriend said I'm the abusive one. But I feel like I deserve it because I can be selfish. But I'm not just selfish. Maybe I'm trying to convince myself that I'm not worthless?

I honestly don't feel like I'm good for anyone.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Ozzie101]

We’re certainly glad you’ve found us here, too, ahe. There’s so much information and support to be found here and it’s certainly helped me.

I’m also very glad to hear you’re in therapy. That’s a very, very important step.

There is a lot to unpack in your post and, honestly, a lot that concerns me. A lot of what you say is so familiar. My H also had he convinced that things were my fault. That I was selfish. That I hurt him. He also tried to distance me from friends and family — a standard abuse tactic (something I was able to resist for the most part).

But here’s the thing: it wasn’t true. And I’m willing to bet it’s not true for you either.

From what you say, I agree with your therapist. Your GF sounds very abusive — verbally and emotionally. As someone who has dealt with that in her own marriage, I know how painful and mind-bending that can be.

Has she ever hurt you or threatened you physically?

There are any number of reasons your GF could be treating you this way. I and others can talk through them with you, but first I’ll recommend that you read some of the articles on this site. They spell things out in a wonderfully clear and concise manner. Also, I highly recommend the book Stop Walking on Eggshells. It truly valuable in coming to understand the BPD mind and it’s what led be here.

I don’t want to overwhelm you so I’ll leave it there for now. I’m sure others will jump in.

Again, welcome. You’re not alone!

[Harri]

Hi.  I want to join Ozzy in saying hi and

Like you and Ozzy, I spent a long time thinking I was the problem and caused all the issues in my relationship.  also like Ozzy, I found out that was not true.  It is true that we all have a role in our relationships but none of us are solely to blame.  On top of that, no one deserves the verbal and emotional abuse you have been receiving. 

But I feel like I deserve it because I can be selfish. But I'm not just selfish. Maybe I'm trying to convince myself that I'm not worthless?

You have worth.  You have value.  All of us do.  I am not sure how to get you to see and accept that but I know I felt that way about myself for most of my life.   With time, therapy and the work I did here on the boards, I came to change how I viewed myself.  I hope you will keep posting so we can help you do the same.

Can you tell us a bit more about your relationship and what you are hoping for?  Where do you hope to see it in 6 months to a year from now?

Talk with you soon.

[ahe]

Hi Ozzie101 and Harri. First of all, thank you for the replies.

In response to Ozzie101, she's never physically harmed me so far. Also, I know it does seem like abuse, but since she has bpd, it's about her inner trauma right? That's kind of what I'm gathering from the articles. I know she had a really traumatic childhood, there was a lot of abuse in her family. And when she's feeling ok, she's really great. I know she has a lot of pain and I think she projects that on to me. My counselor says that it sounds like I'm her punching bag. She's pushed all of her family away so she really has nobody other than me. And I know that's not my fault but I really care.

In response to Harri, you asked what I am hoping for and where I want to be in the future. And really what I'd like is to become more resilient and not take things personally. I think that would be the best for both of us because then she could call me these names and I wouldnt take them to heart. I want to be more assertive (I'm working on all of this with my counselor). I'm not saying that I'd disassociate myself from the situation, just have a shield so she could get her pain out.

One of our favorite things to do is to go out in nature and it's funny because usually getting her out in nature soothes her almost immediately. That's if I can convince her to go for a hike with me. She has a lot of anxiety and I feel like she's agoraphobic as well but only slightly.

Luckily for both of us that we have counselors. And luckily for me I found this site! She knows she has bpd and we discuss it extensively when she feels clear.

Thank you again, I can't express how grateful I am.

[Ozzie101]

Also, I know it does seem like abuse, but since she has bpd, it's about her inner trauma right? That's kind of what I'm gathering from the articles.

There’s something here I want to clarify. Yes, it sounds like she has trauma. And with BPD, there are a lot of causes, symptoms and reasons. But (big but there) that does not make abuse of any kind OK. And, regardless of cause, abuse is still abuse. Understanding what’s behind their behaviors is valuable because it can help us understand how better to respond and to interpret. But that’s different from excusing or making unhealthy or unacceptable behaviors OK.

For instance, think of a child who is bullied at school. Then the child goes home and, in turn, bullies his brother. That’s his method of releasing the pain he feels. But is it OK for him to hurt his innocent brother? I’d it OK to bully if you’ve been bullied yourself? Or is it still wrong?

Does that make sense?

And really what I'd like is to become more resilient and not take things personally. I think that would be the best for both of us because then she could call me these names and I wouldnt take them to heart. I want to be more assertive (I'm working on all of this with my counselor). I'm not saying that I'd disassociate myself from the situation, just have a shield so she could get her pain out.

I understand what you’re saying. But, would it be good for you (or her) or sustainable for her to continue to empty all her pain in you? Or, what if you got stronger — not so you could take her abuse — but so you could learn better boundaries and communication styles and self-esteem so you might be able to build a healthier, stronger relationship and maybe help her to develop healthier coping mechanisms?

[ahe]

True, learning how to create boundaries and being assertive enough to express them to her would be a lot more helpful. I think I get what you're saying about that. And definitely self-esteem, that's been something I've been working on bettering for a while now.

I hadn't thought about that. Communicating, boundaries and helping with coping mechanisms does feel like a healthier option.

[Ozzie101]

Have you done much reading around this site? There’s a lot of information, though it can be overwhelming. Here are a couple of parts that have been very helpful for me:

https://bpdfamily.com/content/setting-boundaries

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=139972.0

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=84942.0

I hope you’ll take a look and let us know if anything resonates.

This is a difficult time for you, I get that. From where I sit, though, I can tell you that I do not see the words of a selfish person or of a person deserving of any of what you’re going through.

[ahe]

I have started to read the articles on the site. The Drama Triangle article made sense to me, I think I'm the victim in the triangle, but not sure who the 3rd person in the triangle is yet.

I am starting to read through the 3 links you provided. Thank you!

I kind of understand boundaries, I do need to clearly define some.

[Ozzie101]

We can help you with figuring out boundaries. It can becc V a tricky concept sometimes to fully understand.

And while it’s called a triangle, it doesn’t actually require three people, oddly enough. And one person can play two (or all three) points from time to time. It’s kind of fluid.

The triangle is, I think, a very interesting concept. And a great skill to develop is learning how to step out of the triangle and avoid getting pulled in.

[once removed]

My counselor says that it sounds like I'm her punching bag.
...
In response to Harri, you asked what I am hoping for and where I want to be in the future. And really what I'd like is to become more resilient and not take things personally. I think that would be the best for both of us because then she could call me these names and I wouldnt take them to heart. I want to be more assertive (I'm working on all of this with my counselor). I'm not saying that I'd disassociate myself from the situation, just have a shield so she could get her pain out.

i think that this is the right direction. its also something that is easier said than done.

I feel like in the beginning, I felt better and had more self esteem but I also feel like I've lost that.

more than likely, part of why you fell for your loved one is how they spoke to you in the first place, and in the first place, she probably was telling you the opposite.

the thing to know about our bpd loved ones is that they tend to feel and speak in extremes. we arent the greatest person in the world. and we arent the worst.

and by and large, our loved ones know that, but they struggle, mightily, in consistently seeing things that way. when youre good, youre great. when you disappoint or hurt, youre the worst. on some level, those of us who are struggling with our relationships tend to see them on a similar plane: when theyre the "nice version", theyre the best, when theyre difficult, we want to get away.

the key to these relationships is a solid understanding of who you are, and who you are not. its also understanding who your partner is, and who she is not. if your self esteem is crashing, both are hard.

theres something complex about these relationships, in how our issues plug into theirs.

the challenge before you is that a lot of this has become ingrained in your relationship. the lines have been drawn. trying to change that now is going to rock the boat, yet, youre going to have to do it if you want to get this relationship on a healthier trajectory.

are you prepared to do that?

[ahe]

the challenge before you is that a lot of this has become ingrained in your relationship. the lines have been drawn. trying to change that now is going to rock the boat, yet, youre going to have to do it if you want to get this relationship on a healthier trajectory.

are you prepared to do that?

I don't think I have another option, and I mean that in an optimistic way!

There's a lot we're working on already to achieve that. We've both noticed "Hey, somethings not quite right". I think the only thing to do is to keep going!

Even now as I type, she's not talking to me (actually, I'm not quite sure what she's upset about). But, I've been noticing (attempting to notice) when I feel bad about myself and working on that. Lately, I've felt more confident than ever and that's something I am holding on to.

[ahe]

Have you done much reading around this site? There’s a lot of information, though it can be overwhelming. Here are a couple of parts that have been very helpful for me:

https://bpdfamily.com/content/setting-boundaries

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=139972.0

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=84942.0

I hope you’ll take a look and let us know if anything resonates.

This is a difficult time for you, I get that. From where I sit, though, I can tell you that I do not see the words of a selfish person or of a person deserving of any of what you’re going through.

I've been reading through this and it's been really helpful, what I'm understanding from boundaries is that you have to practice what you preach. I liked the JADE principle, especially the don't get defensive. I'm guilty of that. Also, someone mentioned that sometimes there's some insult that you just HAVE to respond to even when you're on a roll with not letting it effect you. I'm definitely guilty of that as well. So its good to not let yourself get too hot.

[Ozzie101]

It’s so hard for us not to get triggered — I still struggle with it myself. But communication styles can make a real difference. One of the common themes: sometimes to make things better, you first have to stop making them worse.

That doesn’t mean it’s your fault. It just means we need to own our own role. Sometimes how we respond can throw gas on a fire. But progress can be made when we deal with it in a healthier way.

That also doesn’t mean rolling over and taking it. Sometimes the best response is to walk away. Deciding on a boundary regarding what you will and will not tolerate. Then, when that boundary comes up, finding a way to leave the environment. Not by screaming and storming out. But finding a way to leave with empathy, giving a return time and sticking to it.

For instance:
Wow, Babe. I can tell this is important to you. It’s important to me too. I’m going to go for a walk so I can think about it. I’ll be back in 30 minutes.

The words and process are different for different people. It can take trial and error to find what works. What do you think you might say? His might she respond?

[ahe]

She doesn't respond well at all to me leaving. Today I said I am going for a hike to let you have some alone time and so I can calm down. That just made her angrier when I returned. She says I'm running away from the problems I created. I'm sorry for laying all of this on people who are helping me, it's not fair to do that.

[Ozzie101]

Don’t feel bad. We’re all here to help each other!

To be honest, I’ve never gotten the hang of leaving a bad conversation either. It does work for many, though, which is why I asked.

As once said, a lot of things have become engrained and it will take a lot of effort to root them out. You can expect push-back, extension bursts.

Think of a young child who has always gotten what he wanted by throwing a tantrum. What happens if one day Mommy and Daddy say “no” and stick to it? He’ll throw an even bigger tantrum, hoping it will work. Eventually, if they hold the line, he’ll realize this no longer works. Sometimes changing relationship patterns can be similar.

Fear of abandonment is very strong in PwBPD so leaving a conversation can be very tricky and potentially triggering.

So, if you were to come up with a list of boundaries you’d like to enforce, what might it include? (Keep in mind you don’t necessarily have to tell her what they are — they’re more for you, really — setting down for yourself what you will and won’t do/tolerate).

[once removed]

She doesn't respond well at all to me leaving. Today I said I am going for a hike to let you have some alone time and so I can calm down. That just made her angrier when I returned. She says I'm running away from the problems I created. I'm sorry for laying all of this on people who are helping me, it's not fair to do that.

can you give us more of the back and forth?

what were you fighting about? what way did you go about leaving? what did she say when you came back?

some of these approaches take a certain finesse, unique to your relationship.

[ahe]

Hi, sorry I haven't responded in quite a long time. I've been having a rough couple weeks.

We usually fight about the same things. Its either She doesn't think I care or show that I care, or it's my parents, or that I coddle the cat/neglect the cat. Usually, it starts with her being upset about something else (like people being disgusting or bad). And then she turns to me and starts with things like "if you actually helped or did anything" or "you dont care about me because if you did I wouldnt have to repeat these things I've told you not to do". And then it turns into calling me worthless and saying I'm only a temporary boyfriend until she finds someone better. And the name calling.

When she's not upset though, she says I'm kind and patient. I do really care about her and I listen to her. I do have a hard time listening in general but I'm trying to get better, I work on actively listening and focus on her and make eye contact so I can retain what she's saying. It's something I struggle with in all areas of my life (listening). And i know I'm not perfect and make mistakes. Recently I found out that I was feeding the cat too little and I got called abusive for that and cruel. And she gets really upset when i miss things (example: I missed the clause about asbestos in our apartment lease) she has to do everything or nothing gets done or done right.

Lately it's been pretty bad. I messed up her birthday because her mom wanted to surprise her and she hasn't seen her mom in a while. I thought it would be nice and her mom really wanted to see her. But my girlfriend doesnt like her family and has pushed most of them away except her mom and dad. So that was my mistake and I feel terrible for ruining her birthday. It's really messy.

Her and I do have these ingrained roles. You're absolutely right about that. I'm working on being assertive. And it's really stressful because I feel like I cant do anything right, and I'm being told that I'm worthless.

I usually say "Im going out for a hike" or something like that. And tell her I have my phone on me. She usually responds with "I dont care" or "Stop talking to me"  I usually get to the hiking spot and take a nap or cry. Then I come back and she doesnt talk to me. So I try to talk to her and she calls me a baby for running away and that that's all I'm good at (running away from my problems). Which is not true because I usually try to solve problems. I've gotten yelled at at my job but still stick to it. I've gotten bullied in school but managed to finish college.

[once removed]

Her and I do have these ingrained roles. You're absolutely right about that. I'm working on being assertive. And it's really stressful because I feel like I cant do anything right, and I'm being told that I'm worthless.

a lot of handling these relationships is about knowing when and where to draw lines.

And then she turns to me and starts with things like "if you actually helped or did anything" or "you dont care about me because if you did I wouldnt have to repeat these things I've told you not to do"

for example, there are a number of ways to respond to these. maybe in the moment, its best to let them roll off your back because shes in a mood and making a dig. or maybe theyre legitimate issues shes voicing about the relationship, albeit in an unpleasant and difficult way, and in that case, you want to pay attention, but not necessarily take the bait in the heat of the moment...maybe revisit them, ask questions in times of calm.

it turns into calling me worthless and saying I'm only a temporary boyfriend until she finds someone better. And the name calling.

this is the kind of thing you want to nip in the bud.

if theres any truth to it, thats bad news for you, and you dont want to signal that thats acceptable to you. if there isnt any truth to it, shes using it out of anger to hurt you, or to get your attention, and you dont want to signal that thats acceptable to you either...you want to demonstrate that if she wants your attention, there are better, more constructive ways to get it.

I've gotten yelled at at my job but still stick to it. I've gotten bullied in school but managed to finish college.

its a really difficult place to be when the person you love most is also bullying you.

confidence is really key in these relationships. if your partner senses they can move you this way, they are more likely to continue to do it, because psychologically speaking, it achieves the desired result. but as the emotional leader in this relationship, youve got to understand that it ultimately pushes the two of you further away, erodes trust and intimacy, and damages the relationship long term.

this isnt necessarily about over compensating and taking her down a peg. it is about finding your strength, your voice, your boundaries, your values, and leading this relationship on a healthier trajectory.