Back with the same issues 3 years later

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

Hello everyone

I was gutsy enough to reach out 3 years ago and then probably convinced myself that I could do it alone...well I clearly cannot deal with this alone. My initial post from 2017 sounded like I could have written it yesterday. Its sad to see that I have been stuck for so long. I've been living with my partner who has BPD traits for the last 6 yrs and each time we have a conversation after an argument its like Groundhog Day. Today I decided to stop the "talks" ...which usually include mainly me talking about all the different ways we could improve our relationship.

What I did instead is started reading Stop Caretaking the Borderline/Narcissist by Margalis Fjelstad. Its very good and has held me accountable to leaving the drama triangle and start taking care of me. Day 2 and I have to say every cell in my body wants to jump in and start "fixing" with one of my "talks" that gets me nowhere. The insults from him came 2 days ago and he's acting like he's mad at me for not being ok about being treated unkindly...and yet I have to admit that I'm waiting for him to "realize" that he made a mistake and apologize so we can move on. Why am I still waiting for a different result? Why is it soo hard to just allow things to unfold as they may?

I am committed to doing things differently this time. I am committed to working my way out of the caretaker role but I cannot do it alone. This will be hard as I grew up with a narcissistic mother and I had the role of maintaining the peace until she passed. I know that in doing this I might lose the relationship. I'm assuming many of you know that BPDs do tend to have some amazing qualities that make it hard to leave the relationship. In Dr. Jekyl mode he has a heart of gold, and in Mr. Hyde mode he is stone cold, callous, and angry. Please please share and let me know that I'm not alone. I need to stay on this healthier path for my own sanity. Thank you all in advance.

[Arizona]

Hello everyone

I was gutsy enough to reach out 3 years ago and then probably convinced myself that I could do it alone...well I clearly cannot deal with this alone. My initial post from 2017 sounded like I could have written it yesterday. Its sad to see that I have been stuck for so long. I've been living with my partner who has BPD traits for the last 6 yrs and each time we have a conversation after an argument its like Groundhog Day. Today I decided to stop the "talks" ...which usually include mainly me talking about all the different ways we could improve our relationship.

What I did instead is started reading Stop Caretaking the Borderline/Narcissist by Margalis Fjelstad. Its very good and has held me accountable to leaving the drama triangle and start taking care of me. Day 2 and I have to say every cell in my body wants to jump in and start "fixing" with one of my "talks" that gets me nowhere. The insults from him came 2 days ago and he's acting like he's mad at me for not being ok about being treated unkindly...and yet I have to admit that I'm waiting for him to "realize" that he made a mistake and apologize so we can move on. Why am I still waiting for a different result? Why is it soo hard to just allow things to unfold as they may?

I am committed to doing things differently this time. I am committed to working my way out of the caretaker role but I cannot do it alone. This will be hard as I grew up with a narcissistic mother and I had the role of maintaining the peace until she passed. I know that in doing this I might lose the relationship. I'm assuming many of you know that BPDs do tend to have some amazing qualities that make it hard to leave the relationship. In Dr. Jekyl mode he has a heart of gold, and in Mr. Hyde mode he is stone cold, callous, and angry. Please please share and let me know that I'm not alone. I need to stay on this healthier path for my own sanity. Thank you all in advance.

[Cat Familiar]

I know what you mean about Groundhog Day. I certainly experienced that in my first marriage. And the talks never accomplished my objective of having him see my point of view.

What do you want to do differently now?

[Arizona]

I want to respect myself enough to "truly" stick to my guns. To have my actions match my words...or better yet to be more action and few words. But my upset doesn't last long and I start to go into "fix it" mode. Yes, to fix what he broke. I become sad and hurt and feel like I did something wrong.  If his behaviors are not ok I want to allow him to come around on his own time and make amends...even if it takes him days or week (he can go days without talking to me).

Right now, I'm feeling mean by not offering some of the food I cooked and mean for not having said good morning today. He does not appear to feel regret...he still looks angry.

Some Context: Two days ago I shared with him that I felt it wasn't ok to change plans to go out at the last minute (after he knew I had been waiting for him to go out to eat). He responded in a callous tone "its my right to change my mind" and "you're so selfish and I don't even want to be around you right now." When I stated I was tired of his behavior he took off his band (we both use bands even though we are not officially married). I felt shocked, hurt, angry. Not sure why I'm shocked since its not new behavior. Hurt I can understand...and anger left me after 1-2 hours.

Thank you for listening and for your feedback.

[Cat Familiar]

I’m a “fixer” too and it’s an urge I have to resist with my husband so I channel that tendency into something productive around the house. This week I fixed a leaky bathroom faucet and three hose bibs in the garden and horse pasture. I felt really satisfied that my work had accomplished something useful.

The reason I no longer try to fix things with my husband is twofold. One, it generally makes things worse. And two, he is likely to feel diminished by my attempts to do so.

This was almost incomprehensible for me in that I believed in my conversational ability to smooth over rough edges, come to agreements, settle discords. Yes, I can still do that, but not with someone who has a personality disorder.

And what I didn’t realize for a long time was that he felt that I was looking down on him when I tried to repair our communication when things had gone awry. Oddly enough, we get on a much better track more quickly if I acknowledge to myself that we had a disagreement and then move on, without trying to conduct a postmortem on exactly what went wrong.

He may not come around and make amends. Many pwBPD would prefer to ignore their own faults and never address what occurred.

Have you read this article on  codependent relationships ?

[Lucky Jim]

Hey AZ, I suggest you practice self-love and self-acceptance.  Hey, you're human!  It seems like you are judging yourself harshly.  Does that seem fair to say?  I've done plenty of caretaking in my day, but I came to see it as an unhealthy way of avoiding my own issues by taking on those of my Ex.  I lacked good boundaries.  I admire your commitment to doing things differently!  Keep it up.

LuckyJim

[Arizona]

Thank you Cat Familiar-
We're on day 3 of not speaking. I have held on this far but it feels like I'm reverse-stonewalling.
I have to say that catching myself every time my brain is convincing me to "communicate" something to him is freaky. Its almost like I'm a compulsive communicator. Last night I caught myself planning to let him in on my new approach to his mood swings! WT heck? Oy.
Its truly counterintuitive for me not to communicate so this will be very a good challenge for my brain.

I do hear myself sometimes in the conversations we have and I sound like a mom scolding her child...and I hate it. Thats not my intention. I care about him and dont want to ever shame him or belittle him...despite his unkind behavior toward me. I just haven't been able to accept that his brain is not wired the same.

How can they "ignore" what has happened? Its like ignoring the elephant in the room. I can't help but feel angry when he doesn't address something obvious. My pride gets involved and I start feeling disrespected and resentful. Any tips for this?

Thank you for the reading suggestion. I will look it up.

[Arizona]

Hello Lucky Jim

Thank you for the encouragement and feedback. Yes I'm a pro at being hard on myself and yes I definitely bypass my needs and issues. My energy goes to him and his needs. I need to take care of me and my needs. Coming back to this group and remaining in communication with a supportive group is part of taking care of myself. Thank you!

[Cat Familiar]

Perhaps you can look at your response, or lack of it, as not “reverse stonewalling” but rather honoring his preference of not speaking.

Are you still communicating about insignificant things: has the cat been fed? Shall I turn on the air conditioner? Did you pick up the mail? — that sort of thing?

And if you can hear the “scolding mom” in your words, he likely hears it 10 times worse. On some days my husband can hear “Did you put away the wrench?” as an indictment of how careless and thoughtless he is, when in reality I’m just looking for the  wrench.

[Arizona]

Hello Cat Familiar

Thank you thats a good way to reframe it. Yes, he said he didn't want to be around me or see me so I'm honoring his request.

I've initiated communication to ask about the dog being fed and he has emailed me a couple of times with information on car tires and refinancing student loans. Other than that I have not initiated greetings when we get home, etc. I'm basically staying away but he probably feels like I'm punishing him despite him having stated he didn't want to be around me, see me, etc. I'm curious about what he remembers and thinks is happening but I'm trying to stay in my lane and not "talk" about what happened. 

We are on day 4 of not speaking but he's gone up to 2 weeks without speaking and I've been the one to initiate "conversations" that have reinstated communication. This is the first time I will not initiate. Any insight into what I can expect and best ways to navigate this new way of doing things?

[Cat Familiar]

You are communicating, just not on an intimate, personal level.

Hard to predict the future. If asked, I’d say, “I’m honoring your request.”

I’d let him make the first move, hard as that might be for you.

[Arizona]

Still not talking and I’m still trying to stay in my lane. It feels really lonely despite being in touch with my friends. We moved to an area of town that is far from all of my friends and places I enjoy in order to accommodate his kids school transportation needs. It really feels like he doesn’t care for me... or at least this version of him. His body language exudes anger. Do they really not realize what they have done when they flip out and berate their loved ones? No matter how many times it happens I’m still in shock and disbelief.

Also, how do I differentiate between illness driven behavior and abuse? If my daughter’s bf ever said or did things to her like my partner does I would consider it verbal and emotional abuse.

[Cat Familiar]

It really feels like he doesn’t care for me... or at least this version of him. His body language exudes anger. Do they really not realize what they have done when they flip out and berate their loved ones?

When my husband gets irritable and grouchy, he is so caught up in that sentiment that he is unaware of being impatient or unkind. Later, he might realize that he was behaving poorly, but at the time, his awareness is so focused upon his feelings that he has no concern for how others would be impacted by his behavior.

Also, how do I differentiate between illness driven behavior and abuse?

Is is abuse. Just because they have a personality disorder, they don’t get a free pass to behave abominably.

It takes time for us nons to learn new behavioral responses (having good boundaries, not invalidating, etc.) but over time, we can be less impacted emotionally by our partners’ thoughtless behaviors. And it’s possible for them to become more accountable and not inflict their emotional outbursts upon us.

That said, there are individuals who are more profoundly afflicted by personality disorders and therefore have less ability or desire to maintain a healthier relationship. Those who only have traits of BPD are far more likely to be amenable to controlling their emotional outbursts to some extent.

[Arizona]

Hello Catfamiliar

I failed at my attempt to avoid contact. I sent him a link to a support group for him and he became very upset. I’m very mad at myself and feel responsible for this new argument because I feel like I poked the bear. He questioned why I sent this as if he has never heard of the diagnosis (shocking since we have spoken about it many times in the last 6 yrs). I mentioned I thought it would help since me joining this online support forum has helped me. He became very angry about me joining and said it was f***** up and that i had victimhood mentality. What is the best way to deal with a partner being angry about a support group? My response to him was that I had a right to join a group that helped me with how I allow his behaviors to impact me. I also asked what he felt was going on with his anger and mood swings if he disagrees with BPD and he didn’t answer me. Was this another error? 

[Cat Familiar]

Hi Arizona,
Don’t waste another minute beating yourself up. Dealing with a partner with BPD is like learning a new language—missteps will be made. Note I said missteps, not mistakes. Feedback, not failure.

People dx with BPD do not like to admit it, nor think about it. And who can blame them? Until recently it was perceived as a rather hopeless dx.

Best not to try to get consensus about either the dx or the behavior that exemplifies it.

As far as participating in a support group, why even share that with him? As you said, you have every right to seek help for the chaos he creates, and it’s entirely your business, not his.

Have you seen this article on boundaries ?

To successfully navigate a relationship with a pwBPD, you must have strong boundaries. Learning to create boundaries with a loved one, when you haven’t had them previously, will seem a bit cold and heartless and compartmentalizing. But the irony is that he will feel more respected, you will have less stress, and the relationship will have less conflict.

Cat

[Arizona]

Thank you. Sometimes it feels like i’m walking in a landmine field. I will continue working on reducing the amount of info sharing. To me this is a positive step but to him it seemed incomprehensible why I would seek a support group. I need to let go of his opinions.  Thank you for validating that I have a right to get myself support. I will definitely read the article.