Still trying but about ready to give up

[Depression = 72% of members]

I'm new here but have struggled in my marriage of over 20 years. Our marriage has gone through several stages but has always been dysfunctional.  We have two children together - 13yo boy and 15yo girl.  I believe that my husband is BPD and NPD.  He has not been officially diagnosed with either one.

Over our first 18 years together, I went from being self-confident and assertive 22yo to being an afraid and hurt 42yo.  That is when I started my own therapy in Nov 2018 when I realized that I had been convinced by my husband over the previous 10+ years that I was his abuser and villain, leaving me feeling completely empty and worthless. I have been building my self-confidence and learning how to hold my own narrative even though it is significantly different than his.  It's been hard work after a couple decades of being told that I am mean and selfish. 

We started therapy in January 2019 and ended up switching therapists December 2019.  We are now seeing our newer therapist 2x/week at my request.  Every time we seem to make progress, he seems to sabotage it and declare that everything is just as bad or worse than it has ever been.  It is excruciating to hear every session how mistreated he feels by me.   And when he has a moment of reassurance for me (“I do love you and want to work this out”), it is followed the same or next day with being told how mean and selfish I am.  He is also unable to hear me or my concerns without hearing them as accusations and become defensive and hurtful.  He has increasingly abandoned our relationship emotionally to the point that he now sleeps in the guest room and barely speaks to me outside of household logistics.

I have found that our relationship dynamics are really taking a toll on me and our kids.  I have realized that I prioritized my relationship with my husband over my kids, since their births.  My husband struggles with black-and-white thinking and doesn't parent with a growth mindset.  Therefore, my kids have struggled, especially my 15yo daughter.  She is now in adolescent DBT to work on her impulsive and hurtful behaviors towards herself and others.  My 13yo son has shown that he is hurting in his own ways but does not externalize his feelings as much as my daughter.  I have been re-prioritizing my relationships with them in the last year over the one with my husband and they both seem to be leaning into my desire to connect with them.

I have been attempting to “better” our relationship for years but have felt stymied at every turn.  I don’t even see him trying to be my friend.  I'm trying to be his companion as he rejects being mine.  He has trouble even admitting that he has issues to work out.  All our problems are attributed to me and my mistreatment of him and our family.  I have stopped believing that narrative (although I still believe there are many ways that I could have and can do better).  And if his narrative about me continues to be negative and accusatory, I don't think I can continue for my own sanity and health.  He is actively participating in MC (1.5 years now) and in my daughter’s DBT as a parent (3 months now).  So, I’m trying to wait a little while to see what comes from those.  I see small changes but honestly, I never know what to trust.

[mmrwto]

I'm new here but have struggled in my marriage of over 20 years. Our marriage has gone through several stages but has always been dysfunctional.  We have two children together - 13yo boy and 15yo girl.  I believe that my husband is BPD and NPD.  He has not been officially diagnosed with either one.

Over our first 18 years together, I went from being self-confident and assertive 22yo to being an afraid and hurt 42yo.  That is when I started my own therapy in Nov 2018 when I realized that I had been convinced by my husband over the previous 10+ years that I was his abuser and villain, leaving me feeling completely empty and worthless. I have been building my self-confidence and learning how to hold my own narrative even though it is significantly different than his.  It's been hard work after a couple decades of being told that I am mean and selfish. 

We started therapy in January 2019 and ended up switching therapists December 2019.  We are now seeing our newer therapist 2x/week at my request.  Every time we seem to make progress, he seems to sabotage it and declare that everything is just as bad or worse than it has ever been.  It is excruciating to hear every session how mistreated he feels by me.   And when he has a moment of reassurance for me (“I do love you and want to work this out”), it is followed the same or next day with being told how mean and selfish I am.  He is also unable to hear me or my concerns without hearing them as accusations and become defensive and hurtful.  He has increasingly abandoned our relationship emotionally to the point that he now sleeps in the guest room and barely speaks to me outside of household logistics.

I have found that our relationship dynamics are really taking a toll on me and our kids.  I have realized that I prioritized my relationship with my husband over my kids, since their births.  My husband struggles with black-and-white thinking and doesn't parent with a growth mindset.  Therefore, my kids have struggled, especially my 15yo daughter.  She is now in adolescent DBT to work on her impulsive and hurtful behaviors towards herself and others.  My 13yo son has shown that he is hurting in his own ways but does not externalize his feelings as much as my daughter.  I have been re-prioritizing my relationships with them in the last year over the one with my husband and they both seem to be leaning into my desire to connect with them.

I have been attempting to “better” our relationship for years but have felt stymied at every turn.  I don’t even see him trying to be my friend.  I'm trying to be his companion as he rejects being mine.  He has trouble even admitting that he has issues to work out.  All our problems are attributed to me and my mistreatment of him and our family.  I have stopped believing that narrative (although I still believe there are many ways that I could have and can do better).  And if his narrative about me continues to be negative and accusatory, I don't think I can continue for my own sanity and health.  He is actively participating in MC (1.5 years now) and in my daughter’s DBT as a parent (3 months now).  So, I’m trying to wait a little while to see what comes from those.  I see small changes but honestly, I never know what to trust.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

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[once removed]

hi mmrwto, and

20 years is a long time. i can tell that you love your husband, and at the same time, how hard this has been on you.

having a strong support system can really make all the difference in the world.

a good place to start might be to tell us how therapy is going between the two of you. what does a typical session look like, how does it go? what progress has been made?

[mmrwto]

Thanks for the welcome.  :hugs:

I wouldn't say that I have a strong support system, which makes this even harder.  I have two good friends that I call when I'm overwhelmed.  I have a group of woman that care about me but hold me at arm's length.  We have no family local to us.  We usually only see family when we travel to them.  My family tries to be supportive but comes off often as saying I should just leave him.  I am close with his family, which makes things awkward because he doesn't share with them that we are struggling. They only hear my side of the story.  When they try to talk to him to get his take, he responds that I am having a hard time.  I'm pretty sure that it makes me look like the crazy wife. 

As for marriage therapy, it is hard, super hard.  H seems to "throw me under the bus" during our sessions often.  He doesn't seem to have compassion for where I hurt from our 21 dysfunctional years together.  He doesn't take responsibility for his issues in our relationship.  Many times, he rationalizes his issues with how he experiences me and my behaviors.  H describes my behaviors as if my intentions are not good and when pressed, H states that he does not trust my intentions.  Yet, I am trying my best every day and know that I still have things to learn.  I have been worried that our MC has been convinced of how my "bad behavior" is the problem in our marriage.  However, just today I had a session with our MC without H (he wasn't available) that helped me see that she is actually recognizing the dynamics at play more than I thought and carefully peeling the onion within her therapy strategies.  I think I can go forward trusting her therapy guidance more now.

All that said, living in these circumstances is hard on all of us - H included.  I'm so spent and depressed.  I need to find a life worth living in the face of all this.

[once removed]

However, just today I had a session with our MC without H (he wasn't available) that helped me see that she is actually recognizing the dynamics at play more than I thought and carefully peeling the onion within her therapy strategies.  I think I can go forward trusting her therapy guidance more now.

this can happen.

a smart therapist/counselor will sense whether one or the other party is a little bit more able to hear criticism, to take constructive action. if your husband is in a place where hes blaming you for his actions, more than working toward getting on the same page, the therapist may sense that the onus is really on you right now, not to single handedly save the relationship; you cant do that, but to sort of work to get to a place where it is more manageable for you personally. shes gonna focus more on what you can do to help yourself, if hes not in a place where he can do that.

and a smart therapist/counselor will tend to play the long game. if they sense that one party is in that kind of position...a place where they are venting, blaming, more than working to get on the same page, it may be, sometimes, that more of that needs to occur until they get to a different, more constructive place. the same thing happened when i first came here, to the Detaching board, and early on, if someone tried to help me see my role in the relationship breakdown, i wasnt ready to hear it, until i was.

and in a three way, therapeutic setting, it can feel a lot like youre being ganged up on.

I wouldn't say that I have a strong support system, which makes this even harder.

youve found one here. i know of no better.

friends and family will run out of things to say..they also may tend to take sides. focus, maybe, on seeking a different kind of support from them. enjoy their company, and find the good qualities in you, reflected back at you, by them. if you have someone that can be neutral, who can challenge you, thats a bonus, but it doesnt always happen. 

Every time we seem to make progress, he seems to sabotage it and declare that everything is just as bad or worse than it has ever been.

tell us what sort of progress you feel has been made, even if temporarily. sometimes, this can be a long haul. as you say, the problems always existed, and it can take a lot of effort over time to get things on a better trajectory.

[mmrwto]

tell us what sort of progress you feel has been made [in marriage therapy], even if temporarily. sometimes, this can be a long haul. as you say, the problems always existed, and it can take a lot of effort over time to get things on a better trajectory.

I'm going to start where I think I've made progress -
1.   remaining confident in my personal narrative and values, even when it is in direct contradiction with H's narrative about me.  This includes knowing that my intent is to show up with kindness and love even when I'm told that I am being rude and hurtful
2.   committing to holding space for H's discomfort and hurt when he approaches me with it.  Holding space in this context means listening with validation and empathy and following up with a repair attempt of either an apology (if I know I was wrong) or reframing my intent, but absolutely not with reactive defensiveness
3.   being less reactive overall (I grew up in a family that doesn’t mince words when emotions are in play)

Where I’ve seen progress in my marriage (although not consistently) –
1.   H’s commitment to voice his complaints about me using current and specific situations.  His MO has been to be triggered by a specific situation, let it fester, and then complain using generalizations and criticism about patterns of behavior that he believes I exhibit (Sidenote: I’ve found that he now doesn't voice complaints at all which causes them to fester and come out during therapy.  So a good interaction in my view is then presented as a bad interaction in his view in therapy and I end up demoralized because I think things were better than they really are. I'm trying to figure out how to live out my #1 above during those interactions.)
2.   H has realized that I need to be allowed to express my complaints without him injecting his own in the same conversation (the realization is there but the new pattern of communication is not yet)
3.   We have started having intentional short (10min or so) conversations at the backend of the day that are focused on sharing about our day with each other.  Negativity or complaints about our relationship is not allowed during this time.  The jury is still out on if this has positive effects for H but it absolutely does for me.  I crave connection and this gives me at least 10min a day to have a pleasant conversation with H.

Thoughts?