The message blew our children’s world into a million pieces Part 2

[Enabler]

This is a continuation of a previous thread: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=344692.30

Busy, weird and confusing couple of weeks.

Quite a few discussions regarding parenting plan which W says she will be documenting and we can agree. I am letting her lead on this one. I believe the final plan after a lot of variations is one week on, one week off, with a midweek overnight at the other parents house. There is some contention around what the changover day is, I prefer Sunday evenings because it's cleaner with work, she prefers Fridays because she believes the children are likely to have a natural boost of finishing the school week making transition easier. Fridays does not work well with work and will in effect require me to work from home 6/10 rather than 5/10 days (problem more so for the future when things return to some sense of normality... but my thoughts are it's easier to continue as was rather than amend a framework in the future). I am being quite assertive about the Sunday as a good step forward.

Some of the earlier iterations involved a short term plan for the children to alternate ever night... something her friend is doing (claims kids don't mind... although maybe more a case of 'kids don't say they mind'). We have involved the kids (especially D10) in the discussions and her reaction was "that sounds terrible... NO". Without overtly saying specifically why, I have VERY VERY much avoided plans which had too many touch points... she's a boundary basher, the more exchanges or "play it by ear" or "we can be flexible" points, the more points there are for her to exercise manipulation, emotional blackmail or procrastination. She's a huge collector of free options and has no qualms about frustrating others by taking liberties. It's very much a case of "you should be flexible, but I sure as hell won't be flexible at all". She keeps talking more and more about it being very much flexible... I do not want that, and see that I will need to train her that messing others around will only serve to work against her.

W also let slip regarding a large sum of savings she has in her name (I have a larger sum) that she no longer considers it as "against the mortgage (interest only)" and made some point about inheritance she received in 2003 as 'part of that'. It seems like a cheap ploy of her lawyer or sister to carve out amounts of money which are not to be considered community funds. This hasn't been 'used' yet as nothing is on the table re financial agreement, however I too have received inheritance from relatives which has just been consumed, since I did not nor never did consider the money as 'mine' and 'hers'. It's interesting if I am right the depths she will go to (or be encouraged to) to contort historical context. I will scan emails and messages to show historical narrative to highlight any 'switch' that's now occurred.

Enabler

[formflier]

I would suggest keeping finances and kids separate (as possible).  Get the kid thing on paper first and even do it for a while.

Best,

FF

[Enabler]

I agree FF.

I see the financial games as a bit of a sideline at the moment and something to think about more when I'm 'kid free'.

I forgot to mention that W has arranged to work from home when she has the children for her week. This is good and I'm glad she's upped her game even if it's in response to maybe her perceived loss of control of the kids. The downside is that her working and D7 being home schooled is not a great formula for D7 learning... because W gets distracted by work and other things and learning does not get done. However, this is out of my control and she has the rite to autonomy here.

I planned on writing a summary email each handover (certainly in the short term) which will include as much info as possible about what has gone on. I would hope she would respond in kind to allow continuity... but I doubt it.

Enabler

[GaGrl]

In regard to touch points being reduced, have you considered Monday mornings as the exchange? Eventually, the girls would go to school on Monday morning, and you would not need to see the ex. The girls would have a full, stable weekend with the parent before the next school week (a good way for you to assess her level of stability).

Are mid-week overnights necessary, or just an evening/dinner? That's still a lot of sleeping in a different bed through the week.

As to finances, most U.S. law considers inheritance funds to be non-marital as long as the funds aren't co-mingled. That is, held in the inheriting person's name only. So each of you might have inherited and placed funds in your own accounts, and even though you might have used funds from that account for family purposes, the funds were never placed in a joint account. So you might want to pay out that inheritance funds are off-limits for financial negotiation.

[Enabler]

I leave for work at 6am (1.5hr commute to town) and return ~18:30... so a weekday exchange inevitably requires the whole day at home rather than disrupt 1.5hrs of work time.

I am not a fan of the midweek sleepover, I think it will prove disruptive to the rhythm of each home setup/order and just cause kids to get knocked off balance half way through each stay. my W claims this is for the kids benefit, but I am not sure it's not as much for her as she won't know what to do with herself for a whole week on her own other than drink and be with OM. I think she fears losing connection with them... could this be object constancy issues on her part, possibly but that's probably thinking too deeply about it.

I am in the UK. I don't believe inheritance is treated as not communal even if it's been held in her account. We both have personal accounts and don't have joint accounts. Any inheritance I have received has gone into communal purchases purely because I have been the one writing cheques for things e.g. expensive furniture / holidays / houses etc. It was more tax efficient for her to keep savings than myself since she is on a lower tax band. It has never (until now) been considered "her" money, nor my savings "mine".

Enabler 

[kells76]

W has arranged to work from home when she has the children for her week. This is good and I'm glad she's upped her game even if it's in response to maybe her perceived loss of control of the kids. The downside is that her working and D7 being home schooled is not a great formula for D7 learning... because W gets distracted by work and other things and learning does not get done. However, this is out of my control and she has the rite to autonomy here.

This is a good neutral attitude to take... you see plusses and minuses, but at the end of the day, what W does during her PT is her deal. This mindset will benefit your kids. 

I planned on writing a summary email each handover (certainly in the short term) which will include as much info as possible about what has gone on. I would hope she would respond in kind to allow continuity... but I doubt it.

I see plusses and minuses here.

Plus: you model good coparenting communication (BIFF, neutrality, "running the business", etc). W gets info that will benefit the kids (medications, illnesses HW to complete, etc). You let go of any expectation of reciprocity (radically accepting W will do whatever she will do... or not).

Minus: if the mindset is "as much info as possible", this "widens the target" for W to engage with non-edifying behavior (complaining, blaming, stonewalling, triangulating the kids into an issue). Like you mentioned above, what W does during her PT is her business. Perhaps you get the same consideration -- ultimately, what you do during your PT is your business. You can still go the extra mile for your kids by sharing info... I would recommend, though, that rather than taking an "I'll model great coparenting by sharing all the details" approach, you consider an "I'll model great coparenting by sharing appropriate info" approach.

Appropriate transition info, from my experience, includes:
-specific uncommon health issues (D10 last vomited at 3am this morning, took D7 to urgent care for stitches yesterday and here is a copy of the paperwork)
-unfinished HW due during kids' first day back with W
-during your time, kids got invitation to something that will happen during W's time (tell kids that they need to ask W if they can go)
-new information about specific sport event, performance, or activity, that W could not otherwise know about

Inappropriate info to share, from my experience, includes:
-HW due after kids' first day back with W
-asking if kids can do something during your time
-general weekend plans
-kids' emotions ("they want to stay longer with me")
-low-intensity health stuff (minor stomachache, minor headache, tired, pulled splinter out, scraped knee) -- keep a private log for your own security, but this is stuff that (a) the kids can share if they like, and (b) is fairly typical/not unexpected
-spending time with your own family members
-spending time with trusted adult friends
-kids spending time with trusted peer friends
-anything long-term, down the road, or taking larger planning or coordination. save it for a different email

...

In regard to touch points being reduced, have you considered Monday mornings as the exchange? Eventually, the girls would go to school on Monday morning, and you would not need to see the ex.

Are mid-week overnights necessary, or just an evening/dinner?

One benefit of the mid-week overnight is that it eliminates parent-parent contact, as the kids get dropped off at school the next day -- similar to the Monday idea, which is worth considering.

I am not a fan of the midweek sleepover, I think it will prove disruptive to the rhythm of each home setup/order and just cause kids to get knocked off balance half way through each stay.

Yeah, could go either way. Benefit to you would be a check-in with your kids midway through their week at W's. Hard to tell at this point... maybe write some leeway into the PP: "if both parents agree by email at least 12 hours [or whatever] in advance, there is an option for a midweek overnight, starting after school on Wednesday [defined as 3pm or whatever] and continuing through a.m. school dropoff [again, specify a time] on Thursday. Both parents have option to exercise this MWO during the other parent's week, based on emailed agreement."

Again... plusses and minuses. Plus: maybe she won't always take her option. Minus: increases engagement... a LOT. If you don't want to include MWO in the PP, don't feel like you have to... but, if she's digging in her heels and won't agree unless it's there, consider the above as a leverage option to get something you think is better for the kids.

All the best to you and yours;

kells76

[Enabler]

Thanks Kells for so many great things to think about, very much appreciated.

To be clear, I don't so much fear or loath actually seeing my W or doing the exchanges (although the children might), I guess I see the exchanges as the boundary between my stuff and her stuff and each exchange is a fence post... she likes to mess with boundaries (almost universally at someone else's expense), so I have to guard/defend these fence posts. The more posts there are, the more opportunity there is to "just move one... to be reasonable", she's like a magician.

[formflier]

Hey Enabler,

You more accurately should say "You don't fear her now..."

Remember...somehow these disordered people have access to the same "playbook" and you now that handover times are a minefield (to be polite).

Much better for you to plan for it to be a problem and then have any easy time.

Hey..when do you think this is all going to start?

Best,

FF

[Notwendy]

I agree with FF- the dysfunction isn't going to stop with this and neither is the drama between the two of you. Unfortunately I think the situation requires you to make a choice between the battle and getting it settled. Her proposed plan might not completely suit you, but how much time and effort do you want to put in to get it the way it does?

I can't answer this for you as you know your priorities. Letting something go might not be "fair", but also the struggle may not be worth it. Time with your kids is worth the struggle. Friday or Sunday? May or many not be.

I can't predict what will happen, but my best guess is that your soon to be ex will find herself with more responsibility for the children than before. She's had a relatively responsibility free relationship with OM. Now, with children at home, there will be a new reality. Because of this, you may find she does have difficulty with the boundaries.

Same for you. You will be a working single parent, juggling both roles which sometimes conflict with each other.

Here's my own take on this. Your kids won't be little forever. They won't always need the level of parental involvement that they need now. In a few short years, your oldest will be able to get herself to school, and help the younger one as well. What may not work as well for you now might not be as much of an issue later. Your wife might not be as happy with a hormonal teen as she does with younger children. The schedule she wants now might not be the one she wants later.

While you might not want to encourage "flexibility" with the kids' schedule due to your wife, there's a certain flexibility needed when it comes to children. Their needs change, they have activities they want to do. Your time with them is the priority, but your wife's inconsistency with a schedule might not be worth the battle.

[Enabler]

The move date has been pushed back a week due to rental not being ready and being repainted... it happens... but I'll have to take her word for that.

The kind of flexibility I am no keen on leaving the door open for is the kind that promotes her not being fully responsible for things... because they are unpleasant, or they involve missing out (big fan of FOMO). It's those times when the children's certainty and the schedule gets discarded because something more appealing has come up for her which she "Needs" to attend. Parents have to miss out on things because kids get in the way... FACT... single parents have to miss out on more because they don't/shouldn't have the fallback of the other partner... FACT. It's a horrible situation where I'm certain that more flexibility would result in more parenting time which is great... but at the same time I'd be enabling her irresponsibility. I cannot count on her giving as much as she might receive from any flexibility, and I personally don't want to be the arbiter of that balance. These are her choice after all...

Notwendy, I think your forecast is pretty accurate, which is what concerns me.

Enabler

[formflier]

So the move date is?

The date the custody paper will be done is?

How those two dates relate seems awfully important.

Best,

FF

[Skip]

Have you considered  starting off with parallel parenting?

Many families start with co-parenting and then when it fails over time it falls to parallel parenting - not unlike the breakdown in the marriage which falls to stonewalling and defensiveness.

Another option is to play the long game and start with parallel parenting and as you each earn (or do not earn) each others trust, you can loosen it up to a co-parenting situation (generally starting a year after the divorce).

From what you have said about her, and what you say here about your own feelings, I think you both will want your standards of parenting adhered to by the other parent and that each of you feel you are better custodian of the children. If it starts, this will be an endless battle with no benefit for the kids or you. The tension will be more destructive than the problems you initially set out to solve in each other.

You two are divorcing because you have irreconcilable differences and your inability to resolve things while living together will carryover in the separation - likely get worse not better. If a judge gets involved, he will likely solve it by awarding one parent as the primary home/time. Fair or not, that is what they do to create stability when the situation devolves into an ongoing battle.

In parallel parenting, you carve out your time and raise the kids as you desire and she does the same. You agree to not meddle in each others day to day parenting. The clothes/toys you buy for the kids stay with you, etc. You minimize cooperative aspect of parenting to major things like medical operations, choice of school, etc. The schedule is not flexible...

After a year or so, when the tensions have eased, you can loosen up and cooperate more.

Research very much favors this approach - but few people have the insight to do it up front. Early parallel parenting is building a platform for a better long term parent relationship. Reflexive parallel parenting (when you both have had enough of the bickering) is just cold war.

And just a point of perspective... if she wants to home-school by giving the kids a computer and telling them to go online, no judge is going to take exception with it. Heck, Michael Jackson dangled his kids over balconies... Eric Clapton's child fell 49 stories... No action was taken. These are extreme examples to make the point that no one is going to consider some inattentiveness as a home-teacher an issue of significance. And she has been good about covering her tracks.



She will not parent as well as you... I agree, that is probably a FACT. Can you change that by negotiating or complaining to her? Not likely. It's one of the hardest realities to accept in divorce.

PS: In the UK, inheritance that has been isolated in the marriage can be awarded to one partner.  Inheritance that was co-mingled is generally community property. Keeping it separate suggests that you two agreed that it was hers. Co-mingling suggests that you two considered it community property. I think the practical issue is are you willing to go to court to fight for it. From her perspective, it's hard to imagine she would just give-it-up as part of a lawyer-less settlement.

[Enabler]

Skip,

I agree we are parallel parenting. I mixed terms. I agree with your wisdom here and definitely agree with all your comments here. I have for some time attempting to parent alone i.e. have my own standard (aimed for best given I'd been accused of child abuse) and she can someone what do what she likes. I will continue as such and just attempt to ensure my own ship is upright.

Interesting point regarding the inheritance, I did not know this. However, in our case, we have never had a joint back account and my money has always taken first hit including inheritance money... purely because most of the large sums were paid by me. Her inheritance was never intentionally ringfenced nor were there ever any conversations as such.

Enabler

[Enabler]

We have formal (I assume lawyer scribed) minutes of the agreement and agreed terms for parenting... she sent them to me today and I have just responded adding a few points.

Nothing underhand in the minutes, slightly skewed to her being caring and me being objectionable which I addressed adding back omitted points in my response.

Feels good to have something in writing at the very least a benchmark with which to measure ourselves against.

Enabler

[Fian]

If she is having a lawyer review the document, maybe you should have a lawyer on your side as well.  There is always the risk that some minor objectionable items were put into the document so that you would miss a bigger issue that might cause you legal issues down the road.

[Skip]

... slightly skewed to her being caring and me being objectionable which I addressed adding back omitted points in my response.

Don't bother debating the correctness of this stuff, just ask to keep the minutes functionally based (and cross out any editorializing, either way). Just the facts. No feelings.

Best to communicate with her on this basis. BIF. Brief. Informative. Friendly.

I agree with Fian. I'd get an attorney to provide oversight. There guys do this everyday and they know all the tricks. You are doing it once.

I really encourage you to engage the therapist. Get her advice on what is best for the kids and listen.  She will help. And she can be a witness if you end up in court.

But overall, getting this in writing is a huge step!

How are the children reacting to all of this?

[Enabler]

D10 kept coming down from bed and wanted to be involved in discussions which I was conflicted about but on merit thought it was probably good as she’s pretty rational and reasonable. She listened to the ideas and gave her reactions and very much shaped the plan. I explained the plan to D11 and D7 and they seemed to think it was good (D11 has no interest in talking about any of it and is pretty much closed down on the subject).

I explained to D10 that any free movement would not be an excuse to storm out the house to Dad or Mums house in the event of an argument... “unless it’s something serious I will drive you straight back to Mums”. She chuckled and I think she understands that we (I) will not be weaponised against Mum.

I can’t see anything wrong with the plan. How it will work out in practice is to be seen... like legal mediation was billed as a good idea, and it could have been... till it didn’t.

Enabler

[Skip]

So the move date is?

The date the custody paper will be done is?

How those two dates relate seems awfully important.

And adding to FF questions, will this custody agreement be filed with the court as part of the divorce proceeding currently underway?

Now that you have outlined a "best case" scenario - how you will share assuming there is no conflict or silliness going on. You might want to explore with the attorney what safeguards and conflict resolution can be added.

I really encourage you to get some legal advice on what you want in the "contract". What you have

[formflier]

and I would encourage you to "file it" if there is an option.

Not sure if I would "die on that hill" if she is opposed to it.  Having a lawyer on "your side"  (or barrister..if that's what you call them...over there) will let you know how big a deal it is for this to be "formal".

Let's be frank. 

I would ask your L.  We have a signed parenting agreement but not filed.  If my wife goes weird and claims it never happened, she was coerced...blah blah blah...how "solid" is our agreement.

Prep for worst...and use tools to get the "best" outcome.

I'm sorry this is happening to you Enabler, but you appear to be unstuck and moving forward.  You can do this! 

Best,

FF

[Enabler]

Still no definite move date. I would guess next weekend looks probable. This weekend was tough and felt like standing still and upright (although I actually favoured sitting down on the lawn for many outside 'discussions' to be more passive). She's hurting a lot and packing up her gazillions of clothes this weekend might have been a bit of a shame poke, especially it's been a big area of marital disagreement. Anyway... after my response to her record of the discussion and agreement sent last week, we're focusing in on the following issue:

My W's comments in Bold, my response afterwards:

“If Enabler is working, EnablerW will be responsible for the children during the daytime and will be able to take them out and have them at her house. On these days, EnablerW would pick up and return the children to Enabler at times pre-arranged with him.” I do not agree that you (EnablerW) ‘have responsibility’ during the time I am working at home, however, I understand that there may be more preferable things for the children to enjoy whilst I am working (with children are under my care), so I am willing with prior communication and agreement from the children, that EnablerW can take the children away from my care.

My W's argument is that since my W has a job fitting to accommodate the children's holidays it would be reasonable and appropriate for her to 'be responsible' for the kids during the periods of holiday when I am working. Firstly, my job which would be working from home is long periods of boredom punctuated by moments of panic. I can be responsible for the kids whilst working, that is not a problem. Secondly, this may well be a time when my Mum would like to spend days with the kids and I do not want to have to negotiate with W for that to happen. Thirdly, I am reasonable and focused on the children's flourishing, if my W tables something that is appetising to the children and fits with the schedule I have planned then of course I would say it's cool for the kids to spend time with her. I also understand that often the kids do just want to chill at home, spend time in the garden and play computer games. I'm standing firm about this as it seems somewhat of a power struggle.

Other conversations around finances have not gone so well. They have not gone so well because I have just provided her information rather than attempting to explain that information. She is not at all comfortable with finances, BUT, she has had over 4 years knowing this was the likely end zone of her choices and as such I think it is reasonable to expect for her to have gotten up to speed on the basics of our pretty basic financial position and what needs to be done. She wants me to tell her... but telling her results in me becoming the perpetrator so I'm desperately trying to keep a middle ground and tell her to go and make her own interpretations.

Enabler

[kells76]

“If Enabler is working, EnablerW will be responsible for the children during the daytime and will be able to take them out and have them at her house. On these days, EnablerW would pick up and return the children to Enabler at times pre-arranged with him.”

Right, if you work from home, that's a non-starter. Your parenting time is YOURS, just like hers is hers -- as you've mentioned before.

I do not agree that you (EnablerW) ‘have responsibility’ during the time I am working at home, however, I understand that there may be more preferable things for the children to enjoy whilst I am working (with children are under my care), so I am willing with prior communication and agreement from the children, that EnablerW can take the children away from my care.

Moving in the right direction, and can be better yet.

[quote]I do not agree that you (EnablerW) ‘have responsibility’ during the time I am working at home, however, I understand that there may be more preferable things for the children to enjoy whilst I am working (with children are under my care), so I am willing with X hours' prior communication via emailand agreement feedback from the children, that EnablerW can take the children away from my care care for the children during my PT.[/quote]

Another move to consider:

With at least 12 hours' [or 4, or 8, or whatever] notice by email, and both parents' agreement by email, either parent may care for the children for any reason during the other parent's parenting time.

What's good for the gander is good for the goose, right?

This both preserves a schedule of parenting time to fall back on, but leaves some flexibility -- within a structure for that flexibility.

I would not include "with the childrens' agreement". I really wouldn't. Kids will do anything to please a distressed parent. Your W may not be able to manage her emotions when she is alone with the children. Can she "make" them or "convince" them to say "I really actually want to be with Mom this week when you work from home"? Yes, she can. Don't open that door of "as long as the kids want to, I'm fine with it". I think you want to love your kids and that's why you thought of the idea. Love your kids by hearing and accepting their feedback, and using it to make a decision. When it's up to "well, what do the kids want to do", they are placed in an excruciatingly painful situation. Love them enough to not go there.

From one who's been there...

kells76

[Enabler]

Top advice as per usual Kells, that make total sense.

I would like to avoid a situation where my W can monopolise the kids time by carpet bombing the diary with invites for every day such that she in essence gets her own way and makes the kids "busy" every day leaving no space for themselves here or for my family.

The point about allowing the kids to decide is very good and I have left the door open to manipulation vis them.

Thank you so much

[kells76]

I would like to avoid a situation where my W can monopolise the kids time by carpet bombing the diary with invites for every day such that she in essence gets her own way and makes the kids "busy" every day leaving no space for themselves here or for my family.

Absolutely. This is good foresight. If that clause is in the PP, then as long as W can claim "well, the kids told me they wanted to do this thing with me while you're working from home", then you've lost any leverage that a PP can provide.

It also starts an environment where being with one parent or the other isn't about what the parents have decided -- it's about "whether the kids are having fun". That's a toxic view on parenting to bring in the mix and it overempowers the kids.

It's certainly not a bad thing to include a clause about "listening to feedback" from the kids. I mean, you'd do that already, right? I would consider that clause as more "leverage" or "currency" -- if your W won't agree to something else, but would feel like she "won" if the "consider feedback from the children" clause were included, then maybe put it in. I just wouldn't start cracking open doors about "what the kids want" because she will manipulate the kids to get her way.

Yes, listen to your kiddos... and do it in a "united front" environment: "Thanks D10 for sharing that you want to work on your art project at Mom's tomorrow while I work from home. Mom and I will email and see if that will work. It might or it might not; we'll let you know once we talk logistics."

...

This stuff can be hard to see on the "going into it" side; I suspect it's easier to spot on the "been through it" side. Happy to keep giving feedback and examples. A lot of it is so unintuitive -- I mean, you want to love your children by listening to them and enabling them to do what they'd like! Of course you do -- that's not weird or unhealthy! But sadly, in these high conflict (or high covert conflict) situations, the very things that we'd usually do to love our kids can end up hurting them. It takes practice and strategy to love them by keeping them from having to choose a parent.

Warmly;

kells76

[GaGrl]

Top advice as per usual Kells, that make total sense.

I would like to avoid a situation where my W can monopolise the kids time by carpet bombing the diary with invites for every day such that she in essence gets her own way and makes the kids "busy" every day leaving no space for themselves here or for my family.

The point about allowing the kids to decide is very good and I have left the door open to manipulation vis them.

Thank you so much

Then you need a phrase specifying that neither parent will schedule non-school related activities for the children on the other parent's parenting week. Such opportunities will be communicated to the parent having parenting week for agreement on which parent will be responsible for transportation, attendance, etc.

[kells76]

Then you need a phrase specifying that neither parent will schedule non-school related activities for the children on the other parent's parenting week. Such opportunities will be communicated to the parent having parenting week for agreement on which parent will be responsible for transportation, attendance, etc.

Yes. This goes back to the discussion of appropriate vs non-appropriate things to communicate in a coparenting relationship.

It IS appropriate for you to inform the other parent if, for example, a D10 gets invited to a birthday party during W's time. You're not telling D10 "Sure, I'm fine with it, but you have to tell Mommy" -- it's "Thanks for the info! It's when you're with Mom, so I'll email the invitation to her, and she'll let you know if it works."

As the kids get older and the divorce is further in the past, soommmmmeeetimes you can fudge it a little. SD14 wanted to go to a free day camp thing, and found out about it when she was with me. I told her that DH and I were fine with it (about 2 hours would overlap with our time with her), but because it was mostly during the time she spends with Mom, she'd have to ask Mom.

In our situation, that was an important move to make, because it put SD14 back in the place of "being the kid" instead of "hey, this sounds good to me, so I'm going to do it". She was reminded that she had to ask Mom because it's Mom's time. Hopefully that sets an example for her that "hmmm... Mom never says that about Dad's time to me, that's weird..."

...

That will be crucial to get GaGrl's phrase in your PP somehow. Like you mentioned above, if you don't, then W can just load up "your" weeks with "stuff the kids REALLY want to do" (that only she can get them to and from) and then you're in the down position -- either you are "selfish, heartless, cruel, uncaring" for telling the kids they can't ride horses, go to the mall with friends, do gymnastics, whatever, or you "have to" agree to "what the kids want" and then you never see them.

This is important.

[Notwendy]

Not advice but wanted to share a situation involving one of my child's friends. The mother was more flexible with children's activities than the father, who had a more rigid approach.

There was no way I could keep up with their parenting schedule. We sent an invitation to a birthday party to the mother's home. She called and asked us to send a separate one to the father since the party was on "his time". He would not accept the mother passing it on to him. So we would just send an invitation to both parents.

If there were any social events where all the families were together, if the mother was also present, the child had to stay with Dad, if it was "his time "even if the kids all wanted to hang out with each other. As you can imagine, the child would feel left out.

I don't know what the dynamics between them were ( don't want to know) but I suspect your situation might result in you being more flexible for the sake of the kids.

I also suspect that your wife's ideas of what she wants with child care might not fit the reality of it, especially as the children become teen agers and start to assert themselves more with her. Make the arrangements as clear as you can for now.

[Enabler]

Thanks everyone, these are great suggestions. As yet we haven’t gotten into the weeds of rules of engagement and just started on the basics of who has them when. This is all food for thought. I think I actually wrote something years back when this all kicked off about what I thought would be good ground rules, I must dig it out.

Notwendy, that sounds soo toxic, I’d rather not attend such a party if the atmosphere was like that, it would be pure ego that might keep me there... and that’s not the direction I wish to go in.

Thanks all xx

[GaGrl]

I think your wife has an unrealistic idea of what co-parenting is going to look like/feel like in the post-divorce world. She has come and gone as she pleases for a long time, with you picking up a lot of unscheduled slack.

I foresee one of your most difficult conversations on the horizon to be the "your parenting time is yours, and you have responsibility for it -- and vice versa, my parenting time is mine, and my responsibility."

What has been holding your household together has been the parenting, and that is about to change, by necessity. Suddenly you won't be the pliable co-parent you have been in the past -- you can't be, or she will take advantage of and twist every parenting agreement in place. And it won't be good for your daughters.

Maybe spend some time thinking about how that conversation is going to go?

[Fian]

I don't think it would be good to have a written agreement on her taking care of the kids when you are busy.  I think it would be best to keep it as a verbal discussion where you may indicate some flexibility, but it would be on a case by case basis, approved by you in advance.  If you need to codify the exceptions, you should probably focus on the words "in writing" and "in advance."

[Enabler]

Great summary of my concerns GaGrl. She would be very offended by any suggestion that she is anything other than the picture of reasonableness, I fear a conversation will be less effective compared to consistently holding the line... actions speak louder than words.