When They Make False Accusations

[Depression = 72% of members]

Do they know they are lying or do they really believe what they are accusing you of that never happened?

I went to go rescue her the other night again after being broken up for months and she recently established contact with me. Basically, she was calling me again during her suicide attempts and crisis situations expecting me to drop everything and help her.

This is after she kicked me out of her apartment on the street a few months ago ( I'm still trying to find a home thanks to Covid) , blocked me, made false accusations etc. We didn't speak for almost a month mainly because she blocked me and I went NC and stuck to it. But she called to tell me she had mailed my things and it turns out that it was a lie.

Then she started calling me again when she was upset. Never asking me if I was ok, if I found a place to live etc. She said she thought I found an apartment since I gave her my mailing address. I thought she knew it was just my mailing address.

So went to go help the other night or attempt to when she was in bad shape after not seeing her all that time. Of course, it went downhill pretty quickly and of course she's blaming me for that. I traveled quite a long ways to go help her when I should be focusing on myself right now and finding a permanent home, getting better from chronic illness, etc.

As soon as I was almost to her apartment after driving a long ways she told me she didn't want me there and was annoyed that I was almost there and she would have to let me in she guessed.

Then she kept me waiting while she was on the phone with a friend where she sounded happy, laughing etc. Just a couple hours before she told me she was dying and needed help.

Then I couldn't do anything right. I tried to comfort her and she didn't want that. I tried to just be there and listen. She didn't want that I was trying to research online how to help her symptoms and then when I started to do that she yelled at me for not doing anything. I brought her drinks and offered to make her food. She didn't want that. She told me I didn't know how to comfort or take care of anyone and I wasn't raised like that (not true).

There's much more to this but it got abusive quick. Verbally. She wanted me to just sit there and stay quiet while she was saying I said things that I didn't say, was doing everything wrong and didn't know how to care for someone, insulted and criticized me. Admitted that she smeared me to her circle and they all hated me now. Kept rolling her eyes every
time I did or said anything etc etc etc


She was getting more and more angry. I kept asking her what she wanted me to do and she couldn't tell me and said I should just know how to take care of someone after an overdose.

Anyway, she told me to get out again and then when I did, I get the calls when I'm driving home that I left her alone when she is dying etc. She never seems to remember she tells me to get out all of these times. Even the last time before we broke up she still insists that I left her sick and alone when she raged and told me to get out.

So contact ended again yesterday but I can't forget things she said to me now. She conveniently blocked me so she couldn't see all the texts I was sending to her. I received one after the other telling me she hopes I die a slow death, she insulted my dead mother and said I would die like her, she accused me falsely of trying to take advantage of her then and now (I never received anything from her or the relationship. Just gave and gave and now she was expecting me to help again), she degraded me, called me a liar about my illness, disgusting, crazy, etc.

It's hard not to cry as I write this. And then I needed it to stop so I blocked her. I then received voicemails from her.

Accusing me of stealing her bank card, another with her crying and telling me to please stop hitting her ( I have never and would never), telling me she's getting a restraining order on me and taking me to court (for what I don't know. She actually owes me money that I know I will never get back).

When she established contact with me it was to tell me she mailed my important documents (with very important personal information that no one would want to fall in the wrong hands because it can be used financially). This was a few weeks ago. I kept waiting for the right time to ask why I haven't received them but right before I left she pulled those things out and gave them to me. I asked why she lied about mailing them and didn't get an answer.

She sounds very convincing and as if she is the victim. It all sounds very over dramatic and she's crying etc. Asking to please stop hitting her and just return her card to her etc.

I just let it all go. I was blocked by her anyway and didn't have the option of leaving her voicemails defendingmyself in anger as I usually would.

I'm shaken and hurt all over again and that's saying alot. She made the very same accusations last time when we broke up or had a fight. Then when I try to defend she says I'm harassing her. Even when I stop asking why she's doing and saying this stuff.

Anyway, sorry for the long winded post. I came here from one of the other threads when I still thought there was hope of at least a friendship.

My main question is, does she know she is lying about these false accusations? Or does she really believe them? Once before after kicking me out again after a fight she did the I stole her card routine. I ended up driving around sounding like a maniac literally yelling to her that I didn't and to try to get her to listen (I'm not proud of this at all.)

To further complicate things I recently told her I had a lot of remorse for things I've said and how I have reacted to her at different times during and after the relationship. Of course, there was no admittance of anything on her end or apologies even though she was always the one raging, making up lies, twisting things I said, calling me only when she needed something, manipulating me, telling me she was wrong about loving me and she never really, calling me names, making fun of my illness, threatening to kill me etc. She conveniently claims to not even remember some of this after admitting before when she was calm that she did. But still, never an apology.

I realise now she just contacted me again because she needed something.

She never cared or even liked me I don't think. She has this all black opinion of me now that I am a liar, their, manipulater, con artist, etc. Nothing could be further from the truth. I'm extremely empathetic and gave so much to her at my own detriment and when she came back I did it again and got the same result.

So, did she mean all the false accusations or is she aware they are lies?

Thank you.

[Mergirl]

Do they know they are lying or do they really believe what they are accusing you of that never happened?

I went to go rescue her the other night again after being broken up for months and she recently established contact with me. Basically, she was calling me again during her suicide attempts and crisis situations expecting me to drop everything and help her.

This is after she kicked me out of her apartment on the street a few months ago ( I'm still trying to find a home thanks to Covid) , blocked me, made false accusations etc. We didn't speak for almost a month mainly because she blocked me and I went NC and stuck to it. But she called to tell me she had mailed my things and it turns out that it was a lie.

Then she started calling me again when she was upset. Never asking me if I was ok, if I found a place to live etc. She said she thought I found an apartment since I gave her my mailing address. I thought she knew it was just my mailing address.

So went to go help the other night or attempt to when she was in bad shape after not seeing her all that time. Of course, it went downhill pretty quickly and of course she's blaming me for that. I traveled quite a long ways to go help her when I should be focusing on myself right now and finding a permanent home, getting better from chronic illness, etc.

As soon as I was almost to her apartment after driving a long ways she told me she didn't want me there and was annoyed that I was almost there and she would have to let me in she guessed.

Then she kept me waiting while she was on the phone with a friend where she sounded happy, laughing etc. Just a couple hours before she told me she was dying and needed help.

Then I couldn't do anything right. I tried to comfort her and she didn't want that. I tried to just be there and listen. She didn't want that I was trying to research online how to help her symptoms and then when I started to do that she yelled at me for not doing anything. I brought her drinks and offered to make her food. She didn't want that. She told me I didn't know how to comfort or take care of anyone and I wasn't raised like that (not true).

There's much more to this but it got abusive quick. Verbally. She wanted me to just sit there and stay quiet while she was saying I said things that I didn't say, was doing everything wrong and didn't know how to care for someone, insulted and criticized me. Admitted that she smeared me to her circle and they all hated me now. Kept rolling her eyes every
time I did or said anything etc etc etc


She was getting more and more angry. I kept asking her what she wanted me to do and she couldn't tell me and said I should just know how to take care of someone after an overdose.

Anyway, she told me to get out again and then when I did, I get the calls when I'm driving home that I left her alone when she is dying etc. She never seems to remember she tells me to get out all of these times. Even the last time before we broke up she still insists that I left her sick and alone when she raged and told me to get out.

So contact ended again yesterday but I can't forget things she said to me now. She conveniently blocked me so she couldn't see all the texts I was sending to her. I received one after the other telling me she hopes I die a slow death, she insulted my dead mother and said I would die like her, she accused me falsely of trying to take advantage of her then and now (I never received anything from her or the relationship. Just gave and gave and now she was expecting me to help again), she degraded me, called me a liar about my illness, disgusting, crazy, etc.

It's hard not to cry as I write this. And then I needed it to stop so I blocked her. I then received voicemails from her.

Accusing me of stealing her bank card, another with her crying and telling me to please stop hitting her ( I have never and would never), telling me she's getting a restraining order on me and taking me to court (for what I don't know. She actually owes me money that I know I will never get back).

When she established contact with me it was to tell me she mailed my important documents (with very important personal information that no one would want to fall in the wrong hands because it can be used financially). This was a few weeks ago. I kept waiting for the right time to ask why I haven't received them but right before I left she pulled those things out and gave them to me. I asked why she lied about mailing them and didn't get an answer.

She sounds very convincing and as if she is the victim. It all sounds very over dramatic and she's crying etc. Asking to please stop hitting her and just return her card to her etc.

I just let it all go. I was blocked by her anyway and didn't have the option of leaving her voicemails defendingmyself in anger as I usually would.

I'm shaken and hurt all over again and that's saying alot. She made the very same accusations last time when we broke up or had a fight. Then when I try to defend she says I'm harassing her. Even when I stop asking why she's doing and saying this stuff.

Anyway, sorry for the long winded post. I came here from one of the other threads when I still thought there was hope of at least a friendship.

My main question is, does she know she is lying about these false accusations? Or does she really believe them? Once before after kicking me out again after a fight she did the I stole her card routine. I ended up driving around sounding like a maniac literally yelling to her that I didn't and to try to get her to listen (I'm not proud of this at all.)

To further complicate things I recently told her I had a lot of remorse for things I've said and how I have reacted to her at different times during and after the relationship. Of course, there was no admittance of anything on her end or apologies even though she was always the one raging, making up lies, twisting things I said, calling me only when she needed something, manipulating me, telling me she was wrong about loving me and she never really, calling me names, making fun of my illness, threatening to kill me etc. She conveniently claims to not even remember some of this after admitting before when she was calm that she did. But still, never an apology.

I realise now she just contacted me again because she needed something.

She never cared or even liked me I don't think. She has this all black opinion of me now that I am a liar, their, manipulater, con artist, etc. Nothing could be further from the truth. I'm extremely empathetic and gave so much to her at my own detriment and when she came back I did it again and got the same result.

So, did she mean all the false accusations or is she aware they are lies?

Thank you.

[FP74070]

"She sounds very convincing and as if she is the victim".

"To further complicate things I recently told her I had a lot of remorse for things I've said"

"Of course, there was no admittance of anything on her end or apologies even though she was always the one raging, making up lies, twisting things I said"

I've experienced a little bit of this myself so I know how much it hurts, especially knowing the person involved is very ill. I wish I had a satisfying answer to your question, but having understood more and more how borderlines think it's possible that they "know" their accusations are false, but because of the turmoil that exists in their minds it's either 1) hard for them to "recognize" that they're false and/or 2) they don't know how to express it and they habitually get accusatory and angry.

Remember you didn't have to go out of your way to help her out over and over again after what she did to you, but you did anyway out of true concern for her. That says a lot about your character. I hope you can be at peace and move on from this

[schwing]

Hi Mergirl,

Do they know they are lying or do they really believe what they are accusing you of that never happened?

For me, a good way to look at the behaviors of people with BPD (pwBPD) is that their feelings define their reality.  So when they are feeling attached to you, they truly idealize you.  But when they devalue you, they also truly hate you.  And at any time, their most immediate feelings will override any sense of what might have been true for them even minutes ago.

Basically, she was calling me again during her suicide attempts and crisis situations expecting me to drop everything and help her.

This is after she kicked me out of her apartment on the street a few months ago ( I'm still trying to find a home thanks to Covid) , blocked me, made false accusations etc. We didn't speak for almost a month mainly because she blocked me and I went NC and stuck to it. But she called to tell me she had mailed my things and it turns out that it was a lie.

So at the moment that she called you, she needed you.  And she expected you to be there for her.  Even though a month ago, she devalued you and wanted nothing to do with you for a month.

Then she started calling me again when she was upset. Never asking me if I was ok, if I found a place to live etc.

Her concern for you is only as much as it takes for you to give her what she wants from you.  And even though she never asked if you were ok, it was still enough for you to respond to her.

As soon as I was almost to her apartment after driving a long ways she told me she didn't want me there and was annoyed that I was almost there and she would have to let me in she guessed.

Then she kept me waiting while she was on the phone with a friend where she sounded happy, laughing etc. Just a couple hours before she told me she was dying and needed help.

In that moment when you were there, she was getting what she need from someone else, the person she was on the phone with.  So at that time, her feelings were "I don't need anything from Mergirl."  Even though a couple of hours before she told you otherwise.

She didn't want that I was trying to research online how to help her symptoms and then when I started to do that she yelled at me for not doing anything. I brought her drinks and offered to make her food. She didn't want that. She told me I didn't know how to comfort or take care of anyone and I wasn't raised like that (not true).

I think the key quality she expects of someone who is going to "comfort" or "take care of" her is the naiveté that her behaviors is normal and acceptable.  The minute you start questioning her mental health, is the minute that you are going to be the problem for her.

In my experience, pwBPD wish to avoid accepting the possibility that there is something about themselves that they need to work towards recovering from.  It seems to be preferable to most that they just blame other people (for hurting them) or depend on other people (to rescue them).

She wanted me to just sit there and stay quiet while she was saying I said things that I didn't say, was doing everything wrong and didn't know how to care for someone, insulted and criticized me. Admitted that she smeared me to her circle and they all hated me now. Kept rolling her eyes every time I did or said anything etc etc etc

She wanted you to listen, and in your silence, validate her distorted perspective. 

Anyway, she told me to get out again and then when I did, I get the calls when I'm driving home that I left her alone when she is dying etc. She never seems to remember she tells me to get out all of these times. Even the last time before we broke up she still insists that I left her sick and alone when she raged and told me to get out.

It's not that she cannot remember, it's that when her emotions change, such as when it changes to "I need Mergirl to... <fill in the blank>" then it doesn't matter how she felt before.  She only knows how she feels right at that moment and acts on it.

Accusing me of stealing her bank card, another with her crying and telling me to please stop hitting her ( I have never and would never), telling me she's getting a restraining order on me and taking me to court (for what I don't know. She actually owes me money that I know I will never get back).

When she established contact with me it was to tell me she mailed my important documents (with very important personal information that no one would want to fall in the wrong hands because it can be used financially). This was a few weeks ago. I kept waiting for the right time to ask why I haven't received them but right before I left she pulled those things out and gave them to me. I asked why she lied about mailing them and didn't get an answer.

This is a bad juxtaposition of observations.  I would say there is a more than a good chance that she is using your personal information to take advantage of you financially.  Be vigilant.

She sounds very convincing and as if she is the victim. It all sounds very over dramatic and she's crying etc. Asking to please stop hitting her and just return her card to her etc.

Delusional thinking can be very sincere.

My main question is, does she know she is lying about these false accusations? Or does she really believe them?

Does it matter if she is lying?  Would it make any difference if she is using her emotions to manipulate you consciously or unconsciously?

Best wishes,

Schwing

[1215]

“ I ended up driving around sounding like a maniac literally yelling to her that I didn't and to try to get her to listen (I'm not proud of this at all.) ”

Yep... been there before. If you’re a placid, easy-going type like me, you’ll be pushed & tested till you do explode. It was like my exgf would keep at me till I did lose it (verbally btw). Our relationship, & from what I’ve read on here a lot of others too, was more akin to a parent/child relationship. So it seemed to me like the naughty kid pushing mum or dad’s buttons till they get the response they’re after.
Sorry to hear that she’s accusing you of these things, I hope you come through this ok.

[babyducks]

Her concern for you is only as much as it takes for you to give her what she wants from you.  And even though she never asked if you were ok, it was still enough for you to respond to her.

Great post from schwing.     Particularly the point above.

one of the things that is difficult to understand about these relationships is how much is a self inflicted wound.   why did I keep going back to some one who treated me so poorly ?

[Mergirl]

I've experienced a little bit of this myself so I know how much it hurts, especially knowing the person involved is very ill. I wish I had a satisfying answer to your question, but having understood more and more how borderlines think it's possible that they "know" their accusations are false, but because of the turmoil that exists in their minds it's either 1) hard for them to "recognize" that they're false and/or 2) they don't know how to express it and they habitually get accusatory and angry.

Remember you didn't have to go out of your way to help her out over and over again after what she did to you, but you did anyway out of true concern for her. That says a lot about your character. I hope you can be at peace and move on from this

[/quote]


Thank you so much.

I keep trying to remind myself of that. I really did go above and beyond considering my capabilities right now especially. I guess it just bothers me that she will never ever see it. I tried so hard and in her eyes now, I'm the complete opposite. She see's me as evil, manipulative, a liar, a user, a thief and a loser among other things. No one in my lifetime has ever accused me of such things or has seen me in this way. I've had bad relationships in the past and even those who abused me could never say anything other than that I am a good, kind, honest and giving person.

The horrible, cruel things she said to me just keep going around and around in my mind and I feel this horrible ache in my heart. I keep thinking and hoping for some kind of show of remorse or apology but I know in my heart that will never come from her.

I meant absolutely nothing to her. I was used. I'm trying to wrap my mind around it but I can't seem to. I don't know why.

[Mergirl]

Thank you Schwing,

I agree with Babyducks. Great response and very helpful for me to try to begin to understand all of this.

Based on how I was treated last and the things said, I definitely agree. She hates me. There's no other explanation. I don't know why I have such a hard time believing it but I know it's true. I did everything I could to earn her love or at least admiration and respect. It didn't matter.

When she reached back out after a while, I thought maybe it was because she had some regret and missed me. But none of that was ever expressed. You're right. It was only because she needed me because she won't show certain parts of herself to anyone else.
 

I think the key quality she expects of someone who is going to "comfort" or "take care of" her is the naiveté that her behaviors is normal and acceptable.  The minute you start questioning her mental health, is the minute that you are going to be the problem for her.

In my experience, pwBPD wish to avoid accepting the possibility that there is something about themselves that they need to work towards recovering from.  It seems to be preferable to most that they just blame other people (for hurting them) or depend on other people (to rescue them).

Right on point. It worked with me. All of it.

I'm afraid you might be right about the financial stuff. There's no other logical explanation for her actions. I was going to file a police report but I was afraid of the repercussions if I did so. There would have been for sure. Instead, I alerted my bank and credit agencies. Is there anything else I can do? This is really the last thing I need right now.

No, I guess it doesn't matter if she knows if she is lying or not. I just really wonder because her accusations are filled with so much histrionics and emotion. It's almost like watching or hearing an actor in a play. But to me, it is so cold and evil because they are completely made up. I just don't have any idea why she does this to me. She dissociates so I have no idea if she really thinks these things happened or not. 

It fascinates and terrifies me all at the same time. And is causing immense pain that I'm having a very hard time getting over I guess.

[Mergirl]

She did try calling again since. I didn't answer nor return the call. I figured if it was to apologize she would leave a message or find another way to get it to me. But, in my heart I know it couldn't have been and it was wishful thinking. I actually got scared when I saw it come up and I froze. It was probably more of what Schwing was describing. In that moment again she needed me or something from me. It's usually the only time I ever receive any communication from her. Or maybe still some residual anger and more threats. I don't know and probably never will.

I wish it didn't bother me. But it does. I know I cared for someone who never cared about me even though she said she did. Usually when there's a break up, both parties are hurting no matter who did the dumping. But no, I'm the only one who is going through it this time. I really meant nothing to her.

[babyducks]

I really did go above and beyond considering my capabilities right now especially. I guess it just bothers me that she will never ever see it. I tried so hard and in her eyes now, I'm the complete opposite. She see's me as evil, manipulative, a liar, a user, a thief and a loser among other things. No one in my lifetime has ever accused me of such things or has seen me in this way. I've had bad relationships in the past and even those who abused me could never say anything other than that I am a good, kind, honest and giving person.

These are very difficult relationships we find ourselves in.   They are very damaging. 

what tends to hook us into these partnerships is the early stages where we were idealized and told how wonderful we were.

we have our own needs for high/extreme validation.  usually to support our self esteem.

then the switch suddenly flips to devaluation... and we are told we are the worst people in the world...

truth is we are the same people all through out the relationship.   

we tend to go back to the relationship over and over again looking for the high/extreme validation.   and not finding it.

the things she said to you were/are painful.   that's for certain.    they are not true.    instead of trying to change her mind work to understand that she 'projected' her negative traits onto you.

'ducks

[Mergirl]

Thank you babyducks.

I'm really really struggling with all the horrible things that she said. I tell myself that I'm not going to reread them and then I do. Especially everytime I start to miss the person I thought she was.

I think if the things that were said were anything close to true, it wouldn't hurt as much. To be called a liar and a fraud and to be told horrible things are going to happen to me, etc. I mean, it's just unbelievable.

She really thinks these things about me. And obviously hates me.

I don't know why it bothers me so much that she has me all wrong and has painted me so black but it really really does. I don't know what to do about it. I know there's nothing I can do about it and it's really so hard to deal with.

I wish so much she would call and tell me she knows she was wrong and that she's sorry. I know it will never happen.

I feel so helpless. I wouldn't even say the cruel things she said to me to an enemy. It's just so cold and cruel and vicious. They keep running through my head over and over and my heart just hurts all over again.

[schwing]

I just really wonder because her accusations are filled with so much histrionics and emotion. It's almost like watching or hearing an actor in a play. But to me, it is so cold and evil because they are completely made up. I just don't have any idea why she does this to me. She dissociates so I have no idea if she really thinks these things happened or not. 

It fascinates and terrifies me all at the same time. And is causing immense pain that I'm having a very hard time getting over I guess.

I don't know if this is your case or not, but my BPD relationship really messed me up because it reproduced a dynamic I had with my uBPD mother as a child.  In a way, I spent much of the time in my BPD relationship trying to win over the love I could never get from my mother.

Rather, I could never get the appropriate love from my mother and so I still sought after that love.  The dynamic I had with my BPD loved one was so similar (to that with my mother) in that I felt if I could prove to her or convince her that I wasn't <fill in the blank> then I might win her love; i.e. prove that I would never abandon her.

The hardest thing for me to accept was that my BPD loved one was incapable of providing the love I needed.  She only provided a simulacrum of what I thought that love looked like.  In truth I had no idea what I kind of love I needed until I actually started focusing on myself, which for codependents is like pulling teeth.