I don't know what to do, exgf in Mexico and suicidal

[Domino]

I believe my girlfriend is actively trying to end her life because of our failed relationship. I'm scared for her, and my own, well being, and I don't know what to do. I need some support and guidance. In short, my ex/girlfriend has run away to Mexico, blocked all of her friends and family and is only speaking to me. How do I best support her?

Background
My girlfriend and I have been together for over two years. She lives in the US, me in the UK. We fly back and fourth every month or so to see each other. Things were great. She'd always suffered from anxiety and depression. When we first met she was in a bad way but we worked together to get her back on her feet. It was exhausting at times but I felt she really was coming out the other side. She was flourishing in her career, got a new apartment in the big city and even decided to see a doctor about covering scars from her teenage years - a sure sign she was confident she wouldn't go back to those dark days.

However it came to the point in our lives where it was time to discuss children and we realised we both want different things. This was last October. We decided it best to separate. A short while later, she quit her job and made a suicide attempt.

At the request of her family and therapists, and feeling it might help, I stayed with her a few months longer until she was back on her feet. Upon attempting to separate again, another suicide attempt ensues. It was here, after an overdose, I took her to hospital and she was diagnosed with BPD. Again, I stayed with her until she had undergone several months of intense DBT therapy and I felt she was back on her feet. However any movement I make towards ending the relationship and another suicide attempt would shortly ensue. At this point I knew I was only staying to stop her from killing herself.

We've been back and forth through about five subsequent separations and suicide attempts since. The most recent happened about a month ago after which, along with her Dad and at the advice of her therapists, we took the decision to send her to hospital. After four days, and no therapy or other help, she was released. She immediately ran away to Mexico, blocking all her friends and family aside from me. Clearly hospitalisation was the wrong decision. But I still feel it was made for the right reasons.

She refused to tell anyone (including me) where she was for a few weeks. She'd call me up regularly, drunk and on the roof of her apartment, threatening to jump. I'd talk with her for hours until she came down. Eventually I persuaded her to let me come over on the proviso that she let her sister (only 17) stay with her for a few weeks afterwards.

Going out was awful. She spent every evening threatening me and trying to cut and burn herself in front of me such that I had to restrain her. Whilst I was in the bathroom she ran away and called me saying she was getting on a bus and going away to kill herself. I ran to the bus station and was threatened with arrest by the police for stopping her getting on the bus. I managed to calm her down and come home after pretending everything was ok between us.

I eventually left and her sister came over to stay. However after three days she threw her sister out. Her dad was there to help but she refused to see him or let him in the apartment. Her dad and sister have now returned hom. She is now alone in Mexico and making active plans to kill herself. I cannot fly out as I am in enforced quarantine from the Covid 19 pandemic. It didn't seem to help anyway

What do I do? I feel responsible for a lot of this. I feel I shouldn't have hospitalised her, I shouldn't have gone back on her first suicide attempt and instead allowed her to move on, I should have been more clear about kids from the start... I am seeking therapy but honestly, I'm not sure I will be able to live with the guilt if she dies. And her poor sister will have all sorts of mental anguish.

I am sure our relationship can't come back from this. I love her but I'm incredibly resentful from what I've been put through. I feel like I've supported her so much over the last few years and all I'm asking is for a little in return. To try and get better for a few months.

I see three potential options.

1. Pretend everything is fine, give up my life, fly to Mexico, get married, have babies. Obviously this is silly. But it'll keep her (and by proxy me) alive
2. Give an ultimatum. All is not lost, we may get back together one day. You have three weeks to return home, reach out to friends and family for support and register on an intense therapy program. I do love her, I dream of making this work. But I know deep down I've gone through too much for me to ever want to go back
3. Tell her I love her, let her know the impact her death will have on me and her family (she doesn't seem to care though) and cut all contact. The more I read about this, the more I think my presence probably isn't helping. I'm a constant reminder of the hurt and pain she's been through. Plus the BPD trait of struggling with 'object permanence' hopefully means it'll be a short, sharp shock of pain which she will recover from. I've just prolonged her pain by hanging around so long.

Any help or advice is gratefully received. I remind you she is alone and suicidal in a foreign country. She has friends texting her but ignores them. If I leave her, she is alone completely.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Domino]

Update. I think given the drastic circumstances, my first priority has to be to get her somewhere safe. So I feel option 2 may be best. Although I fear this is just perpetuating the myth that I'm happy to continue the raltionship

[Harri]

Hi Domino and welcome.  I am sorry for what brings you here.  You are dealing with a lot.

I moved your thread to this board, Bettering a Relationship, as you are still in communication with your ex and will need a focus and deep dive on the tools we offer here.  Some of the tools are to help you cope with the difficult situation you are in, some are to improve communication and some are on how to detach emotionally, but in healthy ways.  I did not move you here with the expectation that you will seek to get back together with your ex and I want to make that clear.  That is your choice to make.  Our function is to help you make a good choice for you and to learn the tools.  And of course support.   

Whew!  All that said, it sounds like you are leaning towards option 2 right now.

Are you in communication with her family?  Do you know what caused her father and sister to return to the US?

Hope to hear more from you soon.

[Domino]

Thanks for the response.

We made a deal that if I went over for a week she would spend some time with her family afterwards. Unfortunately she never saw her dad and threw her sister out after a few days. Her sister was very upset about it.

I begged her dad not to go home but I think he reasoned there was nothing else he could do.

[Football2000]

Just want to say that I understand this feeling. I really love my partner and it is hard to turn away from them even when they are making your life miserable with outlandish actions or claims.

[Domino]

Thanks for your understanding. It's nice to know I'm not alone.

Something interesting happened tonight...

When she's like this, my girlfriend will repeatedly tell me she's horrible, she's a bad person etc. I tell her 'I care about you because you're a good person, your friends are texting because you're a good person etc'

Instead tonight I asked 'why'? She responded 'because I'm forcing you into a relationship by threatening you with suicide'.

It's clear my very presence is making her feel worse. But when we speak she seems to come alive, all her problems are forgotten for a while. She's alone in Mexico. Abandoning her now is dangerous. But I think I have to realise I'm not helping, even if I think I am

[Harri]

Hi Domino.

Instead tonight I asked 'why'? She responded 'because I'm forcing you into a relationship by threatening you with suicide'.

How does she respond when you assure her she is a good person and you care?  I am asking because when you say that it may come across as invalidating to her even though that is the last thing you are trying to do.  By asking why, you allowed her to have her feelings and engaged her.  There was no invalidation and there was no validation of her dysfunctional thinking, so in a sense, it is a win.

I am not sure what the solution is for your situation to be honest.  I do think that being cautious of how you talk with her will have benefits in terms of not invalidating her which can often enflame a dysregulation.  Here we talk about not invalidating a person.  We have an article about it that can help:  Stop Invalidating Others See what you think.  A lot of us have reacted instinctively to things our loved one says and try to convince them they are wrong.  Instead, you can ask validating questions like you did or say something that lets them know you understand. 

I know the above won't fix things, but it can make things a bit better when you talk with her.

You are right that you can not fix this for her just like her father said.  She has to want that.  In the meantime, she is in danger from herself and is far away so to not give her some support is very hard.  Do you want to talk with her, but without making promises about a future with you? 

[Domino]

Thanks Harri

What I actually want is to run away and all this to be over. But I know if I cut contact then she will die. She constantly tells me as soon as you stop talking to me then I can die. If course I don't want her to die. So I have no choice but to keep talking.

So that means talking without making any promises about our future. That's hard when I'm constantly bombarded with 'will you marry me', 'lets have children'. She knows I don't want children but continually says it. The only thing that seems to snap her out of the misery is me showing positive feelings towards our future.

[Domino]

Update: She has agreed to do some online therapy! She claims this is only to give me a break (we talk about her problems for minimum four hours a day) but I'm hoping she is doing it because she wants to get better too.

I'm refusing to talk about our future or visits. This is because I'm in a catch 22 situation. If I say I want to separate, a suicide attempt follows. If I say I want to be together I end up making promises I'm not entirely comfortable with. I'm being pushed hard to commit but I'm not going to budge. I'm sick of being emotionally blackmailed.

I hope that with time she will talk through with her therapist our situation. Every now and then she has the realisation that we both want different things and she's forcing me into a relationship with repeated suicide threats. I know she realises this is unfair but can't bring herself not to. Hopefully some reflection with an outside source will help. I'm not sure your ex boyfriend councelling you through your own breakup is necessarily the healthiest thing...

[Radcliff]

Hi Domino,

It's been a few days.  How are you doing?

RC

[Domino]

Hey, thanks for checking in.

She is just boarding a flight home. Her parents both know she is on her way and hopefully will try and support her. Although her mum very much seems to not realise the urgency of the situation and she wont let her dad anywhere near her. So I'm not optimistic. She has friends reaching out to her but continues to ignore them.

She has signed up with two therapists and had her first sessions. This is a good start. Although she keeps repeating, I don't think it'll work and I'm only doing it because you asked me too.

I've no idea what the future holds. Hopefully spending some time with her family, her cat and her housemate will help her get back on track to normal life. I'm not going to make any sudden moves yet. Don't want to unravel the progress being made.

In the meantime I have asked for a break. I haven't been calling her and have ignored some of her calls. If I'm honest, talking 5 hours a day about suicide was taking its toll on my health too. I haven't been able to work and constantly having to face up to (and feel responsible for) the death of someone I love is a really horrible feeling to live with. I'm still sick with worry all day every day.

She is still saying she wants to kill herself. Yet she's continuing with her job (working form home sadly, I think getting out and speaking to people would be massively beneficial) and she has signed up to this therapy. So I can only hope its a sign she wants to try and recover

[Harri]

Hi Domino.

It is good to know she is back in her home country and getting help and support from a professional. 

You mentioned the toll this is taking on you.  I am glad you have managed to get a break from all the talk of suicide.  Asking for a break is actually good and even better if she does not contact you.  It sounds like you are doing even better though by choosing to take her calls when you feel up to it.  It really is up to us to follow through on any limits we may set like this.  She can call but we do not ahve to answer right?  So good for you though I know it is still hard and can be quite draining. 

What sort of support do you have?  Have you ever thought of talking with a professional about all of this?  We can listen too of course.  Sometime though, more can be quite helpful. 

[Domino]

Hey Harri

Yes, I'm talking to a professional. Weirdly it was actually my ex/girlfriend who first suggested it to explore my feelings around having kids. But since it's morphed into support for this horrific breakup.

When she is back home and talking to her family, I will ask for a month to get my head together. I need it. And hopefully it'll allow her to realise that life can go on without me in the picture 24/7

[Domino]

Update: Despite promising to see her family, and the fact that I asked for a break, she has just text me telling me she is at the airport and coming to see me whether I like it or not.

Urgh, I'm sick of this never ending saga.

Any advice? I ignore her, she kills herself. I see her, this whole sorry state of affairs just keeps on going...

Every time I just keep jumping at these suicide threats. She threatens me once, I run to the US. Threatens me again, I run to Mexico. Now shes saying I don't have to see her but she'll probably kill herself if I don't. She had every opportunity to reach out to friends and family and didnt.

I just feel so helpless in all of this. Like me feelings don't matter.

[Brooklyn1974]

I sort of know where you are coming from..  My wife is BPD and after she quit her psychologist told me if I ever left her, she would kill herself.  She actually moved out last month and left me and our daughter but still stays overnight at the house but is emotionless towards us.  I was finally able to get her into counseling again.

As for your situation please note that if she ever did kill herself that this would not be your fault.  They are great at making you feel like you are responsible for their decisions but the manipulation really wears you down.  Have you tried counseling together?  Just because you do counseling together it doesn't mean you need to stay with her.  I would suggest to her that the only way you would ever think of getting back with her is to try this and that she needs to continue this in order for this to stay possible. 

If you truly don't want to be with her then I would suggest telling her so and then going the legal route to make sure she stays her distance from you.  As you know, BPDs are not a game to be messed with so the suicidal threats are real.  My wife often said to me that she is in 'survival mode'.  She is just living for today and could not see beyond that.  Perhaps she feels that way?  Maybe it's something to ask her?

[Radcliff]

Domino,

How did the day go?  Did she come over?

What you're going through is exhausting.  It's unsustainable, and you've acknowledged that.  The sticky part is how to make progress.  Starting to learn how to effectively put boundaries in place is key.  It may feel scary to start, but once you make some progress, it really helps.

Where to start?  It's easier to not answer the phone than to get off the phone.  For example do you think you could reliably enforce a boundary of not answering the phone between midnight and 6 am?  If not, how about between midnight and 3am, then over time, expand that protected time?

Getting off the phone is tough.  Do you go 4-5 hours without a bathroom break?  You can enforce breaks and then call her back, breaking for the bathroom, a meal, to walk in the neighborhood for 20 minutes, etc.  You can say that the break helps you listen better, and you can tell her how long you'll be gone.

Three important principles are to expand your boundaries slowly so you can develop confidence, to not ask rely on her permission or agreement, and to never waver or you'll make things worse (starting too big can lead to wavering; building confidence by starting small helps with this).  Do those ideas seem like useful starting points?  Do you see other opportunities?

RC

p.s.  I'm giving tactical advice above, but your idea of taking a month off to totally clear your head sounds excellent and healthy if that works out.

[Domino]

Hello all, thank you for your input

First things first, I am certain I want this relationship to end. I feel I have been manipulated, I feel all I do is give time and energy and support and when I ask for her to seek outside help to support me, she refuses. I've told her that her death will ruin my life (of course it will) but she insists she is still going to commit suicide. I ask her to try a month, she won't. I just feel like my feelings in this relationship don't matter at all. I'm hurt that I've been treated like this and I want it all to end as soon as possible.

I'm worried if I let her stay with me she will continue to delude herself that I am happy to be in this relationship. So I will set this as a boundary. She cannot stay here.

In the last few days, she has started telling me to my face that she is fine. Yet I find posts on a suicide forum saying she plans to kill herself imminently.

I will go and see her wherever she is staying a few times a week. I will also try and take her out, get her out of the house wherever possible.

Her dad is looking to come over to the UK soon. Hopefully her mum will too, although she is currently refusing to engage with me or her dad despite me pleading her to. I hope if they both come they can sit her down, show her they love her and take her home to get the care she needs

If her mum refuses to come, she will not see her dad (we tried this in Mexico). So I think my only option is hospital. She is posting publicly that she plans to kill herself. I have tried everything else.

When this happened in the US it made her worse. She was in hospital for five days, met people in their 50s that told her they wish they'd killed themselves when they were her age. She immediately got out and ran away. So I can only hope this will be a prolonged stay when she can get the help she needs. If it's not she will kill herself. But I feel she will kill herself either way. So what choice do I have?

[Domino]

Sorry to keep blathering on... This is a full time obsession. I've got to defend my PhD next week. Summarising and defending four years of work. It's pass/fail. I haven't been able to focus on it at all. I'm very worried.

Anyway, she has just arrived in the UK. I've asked her to stay in an airbnb for a few weeks since she needs to quarantine anyway (covid 19). I didn't want her staying here. I'm on a bit of a knife edge at the moment and finding it incredibly hard not to snap out at her. I'm just really hurt she's putting me through this. So I figured it best to keep distance. Don't send wrong signals and hopefully I wont end up snapping and making things worse. Boundary set. I will try my absolute best to stick to it.

Next, I've been reflecting a lot recently and I just wondered what people thought... I've never seen her as a manipulative person. Merely someone that makes bad decisions out of desperation. But its struck me that maybe I am being manipulated in a big way...

After about six months of me trying to leave, her threatening suicide, and me crawling back (I guess this is manipulation right there - but hey), I finally said 'No more' and made it clear. Then, a few days later and from nowhere she sent me an image I didn't recognise with a few words on it. I googled these words and found they linked to a suicide forum.

A day later, an image showing a page number from the forum arrives. I go to the page number and see a post, professing her desire to die. The username is unmistakably her (because it contains my surname).

The more I think about it, the more I think that this is all cleverly crafted. Why send those images? Why use that username. If she wanted to keep her plans secret, that would have been easy...

Anyway, deviant though it may be, I've catfished her. Made and alias and befriended her on this site to see if I can find out what she is really thinking. I know this probably doesn't help build trust. But I wanted to send her on a wild goose chase - essentially tell her I would be her suicide partner so she didn't meet anyone in real life. She was alone in mexico and it was the only thing I could do. That alias has now made a miraculous recovery to show that life can get better but is still in contact. And she's told the alias she plans to die imminently.

So the question is... Am I being manipulated? Is this all planned? The subtle clues to find her on the suicide forum would suggest it is?

But then if it is just a way to manipulate me, why tell the alias of her plans to die? Or perhaps she knows this is me? (the parallels to her situation may have been a little too coincidental).

I guess it's a big risk not to take it seriously. Its just shes been making suicide threats for eight months (i.e they've worked to keep hold of me) and hasn't followed through. She's kept hold of her job (why bother if you want to die?). But then why lie to my alias?

[Harri]

Hi Domino.

So what does your therapist say about all of this?  Have they given you advice on how to handle this?

So you catfished her.  Dude, don't do that.  I can understand the motivation to do so but it is not healthy for you, it is not helpful for either of you and to be honest and blunt, it is manipulative of you and is bound to backfire on you.

Regarding her talk of suicide being manipulative, I would say no.  Sure it may fell that way but feelings do not equal facts right?  People with suicidal ideation are serious on at least some level whether it is a chronic state or more acute.  For some talking about suicide is a pressure release and they actually feel better just saying it.  In that sense they are reinforced to continue the behavior (it is actually negative reinforcement where an unpleasant feeling is released).  Talk of suicide becomes a problem solving behavior or a coping skill and the suicidal behavior/talk ends the pain but also reinforces the behavior.  Getting out of the suicidal behavior becomes very difficult.

Think of most if not all of the typical BPD behavior as very underdeveloped coping skill rather than a complex process of deliberate and planned manipulation.  pwBPD, when dysregulated, are far too emotionally fraught to plot and plan.  BPD is not about a set of behaviors that make them great at manipulation for example.  Rather it is a matter of skill deficits. 

Sometimes our reactions or responses to the talk of suicide can further reinforce their use of suicide as a means to manage their intense emotions.   You flying to the US and to Mexico were probably reinforcing to her.  I am not saying that to lay blame on you.  I do think you need to stop inadvertently rewarding her.  Encourage her to seek help via a therapist, a hotline etc.  when she is talking of suicide.  Call emergency if needed.

[Domino]

Thanks Harri.

Yeah, I don't feel great about the catfishing. I just felt it was the only means I had to stop her from killing herself at the time. Desperate times... I'll leave that account alone now. You're right, it's making me obsess too. And frankly it is underhand. Still, I had my reasons and I think they're well intentioned.

As for manipulation, I agree. I'd always felt that the 'manipulative' behaviour isn't thought out. It comes from a place of desperation. I get annoyed at a lot of the articles on BPD help sites (including this one) that paint BPD sufferers as scheming, manipulative people. That's unfair. In my experience, my ex's behaviour generally comes from a place of love.

So, how to stop reinforcing the suicidal behaviour? I do encourage her to reach out. The problem is she's blocked everyone she knows and is refusing to reach out. I went to Mexico after we made a deal she would reach out to her family afterwards. She did for a couple of days and then threw them out too.

She has now moved into an Airbnb just around the corner from me stating that she 'wants to start a new life near me'. I'm now in the position where if I say 'I don't want this', I know a suicide attempt follows and she's put herself so far away from everyone she knows, she'll be on her own. So as always, it leaves me in a corner with no room to express how I actually feel.

My therapist advises you can only control your own decisions. If she decides to kill herself, that is her decision. Obviously I know this intellectually. But when someone tells you they will kill themselves if you stop talking to them, it's easier said than done.

Anyway, for the time being I'm seeing her at her Airbnb a couple of times a week, taking her some food and books as she needs to quarantine because of Corona. However she continues to constantly act like we are in a relationship. She tries to kiss me, tell me she loves me. And it's very hard to ignore this. My response at the moment is 'yes I love you but I need some time for myself'. This is true. Hopefully it doesn't give her the impression I'm happy to just ignore everything that has gone on before and carry on as though we are together. Any more of a forthright 'were not together' results in suicide, self harm, and threats.

I feel I'm unable to make any moves towards extracting myself from the relationship.

I just can't see a way out of this. I would happily be her friend. But it was sticking to this line in Mexico that resulted in extensive self harm and running away to attempt suicide.

I dunno, her mum just leaves her to it. Says 'its her problem to sort out'. I'd always thought she was incredibly heartless for this. But maybe she's right. Maybe all I'm doing is encouraging the suicidal behaviour?

[Radcliff]

Domino,

How did your dissertation defense go?

RC