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Author Topic: First meeting with uBPDm  (Read 466 times)
Choosinghope
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« on: June 24, 2020, 09:33:23 AM »

Hi all! I'm planning a trip back to the state that I grew up in to visit some close friends and a few family members. My parents only live about an hour from where I'll be visiting.  I told me dad that I would love to see him when I come, and his automatic response was, " Your mom and I would love to see you."  Cursing - won't cause site restrictions at Starbucks (click to insert in post) I obviously wouldn't be seeing him without her this trip.
I talked to my T about it, and I decided to give the option of meeting them both for supper in a restaurant and setting a time limit on the visit. I still haven't heard back if my mom is even willing to meet, but I'm operating under the assumption that this will be happening. Not going to lie, I'm panicking pretty bad. I know I've learned things and that I'm no longer a child and can get out of a bad situation. But I'm still having nightmares about it and feel like I'm struggling to breathe when I think about the potential nastiness of this supper. Yet, I also feel like if I don't do this, I'll hamper my ability to keep growing and healing. She will have won because I wasn't strong enough to face her like an adult and move past my fear.

I've roll played a lot with my T, so I feel pretty confident about how to handle a lot of her atttacks and manipulation strategies. My question for you all is if any of you have felt this way when potentially meeting with their pwBPD and what are ways to handle the anxiety and stay strong in the moment? I feel fairly confident now, but I'm so afriad of crumbling in the moment and apologizing for everything and basically reverting out of habit.  Paragraph header  (click to insert in post)
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zachira
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« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2020, 11:44:21 AM »

You are wondering about how the supper with your parents will go and worrying about what your uBPD mom will do to try to upset you. You have worked with your therapist to set up the safest way to see your father, and you know you can't see him without including your uBPD mom. My mother with BPD passed away last summer, and I have many relatives both in my immediate family and extended family with BPD and NPD. My experience is what works best is to see these type of disordered people in settings in which other people are present who they want to look good in front of. I often invited someone to stay at the summer cottage when I was there with my mother and other disordered family members. Mom complained about the people being there, yet she and the other disordered family members were on their best behavior.
I am glad you have discussed and practiced with your therapist how you will respond if your uBPD mom acts badly, as she likely will, and your father supports her behavior. I think your challenge now is to not worry so much about how things will go, and that is so hard. We just can't anticipate how disordered people are going to behave, and with their children it seems the parents feel that they can just unload onto the children all their unhappiness and overwhelming emotions. My therapist advised me to go inside and observe my feelings when in the presence of disordered people instead of focusing on what they are doing. This really has helped me. I think with disordered parents, particularly a BPD mom, we learn from birth that we have to feel their feelings for them. I think you are doing a great job of owning your feelings. Can you let your parents own theirs without feeling badly yourself? This is such a challenge, which I am still working on, because I think it is part of any human beings natural make-up to feel badly and fear for our safety when someone is attacking us even it is an emotional attack not a physical one.
We are here to listen and support you. You are in therapy and have come a long ways on the road to dealing with a uBPD mother. It is just so frustrating and never seems to end. We are here for you. Post as often as you need to. There is no such thing as writing too much or posting too much. You have come to the right place, where many members understand your challenges with your uBPD mom, because their mother is similar to yours.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2020, 11:59:35 AM by zachira » Logged

Methuen
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« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2020, 01:50:54 PM »

I went through a very similar scenario about a year ago.  Mom had a meltdown.  There was a crisis.  But it coincided with a Birthday dinner which had been previously planned at a restaurant.  I was panicking, and emotionally terrified of her.   Anyways, like you, I got myself on this forum, and I got really good advice from members.  The dinner went fine.  Mom behaved in public.  My anxieties about what would happen never came to pass.

You have done your homework.  You have prepared yourself in a few ways, including role playing with your T.  I would recommend a couple of things to try:
1) Are you seeing your parents alone at the restaurant?  Is there anyone you could take with you?   A partner, friend, or family member? (I was with H and our children, and mom wouldn't misbehave in front of her golden grandchild.) She is unlikely to misbehave if there is someone there to witness it.  My mom is obsessed with how people see her.  She only ever verbally attacks me when we are alone.  I was married 31 years before my H witnessed it.  It opened his eyes.

2) Try to picture and imagine the best case scenario at the restaurant.  Play it out in your mind like a movie.  What "neutral" things could you talk about?  What funny things could you talk about?  Imagine her positive behavior - how she talks and behaves when she wants to impress people.  By "thinking" about the positive possibilities that could come out of this, acknowledge that it's NOT a 100% guarantee that it will be a disaster.  We children of BPD's can sometimes catastrophize, which in turn causes us great anxiety.  Instead of that, try to go into the dinner with a mind open to the possibility that nothing bad happens, and that the dinner is just that - a dinner in a restaurant.

3) Be aware of your anxiety so that when you start thinking about it, you can meditate, or pray, or go for a walk in a park, or whatever works for you to take your mind off the negative.  You've done your homework.  You're prepared.  Nothing else you can do.  So try to relax and find some calm and confidence that you've got this! Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)  Regardless of what happens, you have more tools than you've had in the past, to manage the after effects of that too.  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

Either way, you're going to be ok.  I hope the food is good!  Keep us posted on how it went.  We're here for you.
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Choosinghope
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« Reply #3 on: June 28, 2020, 09:32:07 PM »

Thank you both Zachira and Methuen for your encouragement and advice. I had the meeting with my parents tonight. It was absolutely nothing that I was expecting, but I don't think it was a disaster.

First, my dad said he just wanted to have a nice meal with me. I showed up at the restaurant they chose, and they had already eaten. My dad literally just ordered ice cream and my mom ordered nothing. When we sat down, he pulled out a list and said that there were things they wanted to talk about. I knew right then that this would not be a nice meal.

To summarize, my mom recapped all the ways I've hurt her over the last year and all the reasons why they're convinced my husband has corrupted me and that their daughter no longer exists. Nothing really new there, honestly. I decided to stand up for myself, where I had previously decided on just ignoring things and changing topics. I was quite brutally honest about my said and told her that I don't like her, trust her, or want her in my home. It felt so validating being so honest.  We tentatively agreed upon just letter writing for future contact, assuming that both of us want contact. I'm still undecided on that.

Here are my takeaways. My dad demonstrated dishonesty and chameleonic behavior in a huge way tonight. I no longer trust him or his opinions or his suggestions. I know that it's probably self preservation, but he did NOT play fair tonight.

Either my mom is crazy or I am. I can't even count the number of things that claims that I've said or done or that she has NOT said or done that in no way match my reality. I came away reeling with confusion and that horrible feeling of being a scared, confused little girl. There is no way to reconcile her reality with mine in a meaningful, productive way.

 I sounded like a whiny child at times, I know, and I'm frustrated that I did. I started JADEing at times, which I know didn't help. I talked about how I felt like I was always one mistake from being disowned and never felt loved unconditionally, all of which were true, but just shouldn't have been brought up. I wish I didn't revert back and feel so powerless when I talk to them. It's like I fall into a spell and then snap out of it once I walk away. Does that make sense to anyone?

My parents both said that they didn't want me to contact them unless it was meaningful and I really want to, not just because I feel obligated. Basically, either real, deep communication or nothing. I guess I have a lot to think about...this sucks so much.
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zachira
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« Reply #4 on: June 28, 2020, 10:27:19 PM »

I am sad that your supper with your parents was so hurtful. You had the courage to say what you feel even though it fell on deaf ears. It is sad your dad does not support you as he could be a source of healing and hope instead of hurt. I really don't know if there is much I can say that would be comforting. It is a life long sorrow to be mistreated by the parents who are supposed to love their children unconditionally. It is all so confusing and with time you will sort out what you would like to do about the relationship with your parents.
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Methuen
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« Reply #5 on: June 29, 2020, 01:27:43 AM »

ChoosingHope,

I am sorry that you have been hurt again.  I don't know what to say, except that I'm guessing they've hurt you before, yet you survived.  You will survive this too.  We're here for you. Virtual hug (click to insert in post)

Excerpt
Either my mom is crazy or I am. I can't even count the number of things that claims that I've said or done or that she has NOT said or done that in no way match my reality. I came away reeling with confusion and that horrible feeling of being a scared, confused little girl.
Reeling with confusion and fear after that gaslighting means you're normal.  Anyone would reel after that.  Inviting you out for dinner, eating before you are scheduled to arrive, pulling out their "list" upon your arrival, and then dumping it on you, instead of sharing a reunion visit over a family dinner, definitely suggests they are the crazy ones.  I'm so sorry this is what they chose, ChoosingHope.  I hope that wasn't too blunt.  I apologise if it was, but sometimes we lose our sense of what is "normal" when we have been raised by the people who hurt us.  What they did definitely was not normal.  It was also not something you could rehearse for ahead of time.  I think you responded in a way that any normal person would respond in that situation.

Excerpt
We tentatively agreed upon just letter writing for future contact

What they did tonight at the restaurant "sounds" premeditated, and the optics of it make it "look" premeditated.  My concern is that if the suggestion to just have "letter writing" contact was theirs, that they may just hurt you further with written words instead of spoken words.  What do you think?  Do you see their behavior improving in letters?

How do you feel about taking a "time out" from them for a while?  This has to be really really hard to process.  Can you give yourself some time just to take care of yourself?  No parent contact = no abuse...  What do you think?  

I just want to say they treated you in a way that no parent should treat a child.  In what you described, there was zero attempt of any goodwill or reconciliation on their part.  Instead, they chose to blame you for their laundry list of complaints.  I am so so sorry that your dad played into her disease, and let you down.  He has probably been brainwashed by her too.

Excerpt
I talked about how I felt like I was always one mistake from being disowned and never felt loved unconditionally, all of which were true,
You told your truth.  There is nothing wrong with this.  

Excerpt
I wish I didn't revert back and feel so powerless when I talk to them. It's like I fall into a spell and then snap out of it once I walk away.
Sure this makes total sense.  You've been trained and groomed to react the way you do.  They've trained you to give them all the power.  The good thing about this ChoosingHope, is that because your responses are "learned", they can also be "unlearned".  Baby steps.  It's all possible.  We're here for you.

Personally, one thing I learned early on, is that when my uBPD mom begins an abusive behavior, I can take back my power by choosing to leave the situation.  I don't have to stay and take it.  Reflecting back at how this all unfolded at the restaurant, do you think there may have been a time where it would have been good for you to get up and leave?  What would that tell them?  Conversely, is that something you think you could do?

Let us know how you are doing.   Virtual hug (click to insert in post)With affection (click to insert in post)

PS:
Excerpt
To summarize, my mom recapped all the ways I've hurt her over the last year and all the reasons why they're convinced my husband has corrupted me and that their daughter no longer exists.
It also sounds like they are trying to divide you from your husband.  This is troublesome, and is such a BPD thing to do.  A BPD head is full of distortions ChoosingHope.  I think you know this, and you know better than to take anything negative they say about you as reasonable or fair, under the circumstances.  If you hadn't listened to their list of grievances about you, what (if anything) would be different right now about how you are feeling?





« Last Edit: June 29, 2020, 01:42:56 AM by Methuen » Logged
Choosinghope
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« Reply #6 on: July 02, 2020, 10:08:01 AM »

Excerpt
I think you responded in a way that any normal person would respond in that situation.
Thank you. This is very validating.

Excerpt
What do you think?  Do you see their behavior improving in letters?
Honestly, not really. It might, as my mom chooses someone else to be the scapegoat. The truth I'm hitting against now is that this will never go away. Things might calm down, and she'll be "normal" again, but the next time she gets triggered and dysregulates, it will be the same drama all over. At least with letters, I have a paper trail to prove to myself what has been said and I can throw them away if needed, or not open them. I still have not decided if I am open to any communication though at this point, though.

Excerpt
It also sounds like they are trying to divide you from your husband.  This is troublesome, and is such a BPD thing to do.  A BPD head is full of distortions ChoosingHope.  I think you know this, and you know better than to take anything negative they say about you as reasonable or fair, under the circumstances.  If you hadn't listened to their list of grievances about you, what (if anything) would be different right now about how you are feeling?
I have such good memories of my mom from most of my life. She has been so attentive, kind, and supportive about 90% of he time. But the person who sat in front of my the other day didn't even seem like my mom. She just seemed like an angry, hurt, and distorted version of who I remember. The more I think about the conversation, the more unsettled I am by what she said and how she is seeing reality. I know a lot of people with BPD get better as they get older, but she seems to be getting much worse as she's aging. I don't remember her being SO irrational or distorted before. The unpredictability is what is making it hard to know how to move forward.

I'm not really that concerned anymore about what she says to me or about me, as recent events have demonstrated that her opinions are solidly based upon a fictional reality. Her most recent claims that just left me flabbergasted were that my H and I threatened to shoot her when she visited in October (what?), that because I didn't call during COVID (I did), I was hoping that she would die (again, what?), and that I pushed her out of my house in a snow storm when she visited. But, she is legitimately hurting and she cares about me a lot. Those two facts were also very clear from meeting with me. In her world, I have completely rejected her, my H is pulling me away from my FOO, and I have turned into a pretty nasty person. From her logic, I can see how that is troubling. However, the fact of the matter is that it is not true. Well, there are bits and pieces of things in there that are true, but so distorted as to be almost unrecognizable.

When I asked them what they wanted from me, they said, "To respect your mother and to be our daughter again." Once more, as I think about this statement, I am becoming more alarmed. I could spend all of my life energy trying to meet these extremely vague expectations, and still never succeed. So, is it more loving to just kind of cut ties and let my mom believe what she is believing without continuing to hurt her by having boundaries and a life apart? Or is it more loving to continue having some sort of relationship that I feel comfortable with but has a very high chance of feeding her beliefs and causing her much more pain over time? Or is there a different option I am not seeing?

Either way, after talking to them, it was the final nail in the coffin. I have finally accepted that my mom is, in fact, dead in my life. It is both devastating and freeing. I wouldn't wish this situation or feeling on my worst enemy. Thank you guys so much for the support. It has meant the world to me.  With affection (click to insert in post)
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Mata
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« Reply #7 on: July 02, 2020, 04:45:01 PM »

I know a lot of people with BPD get better as they get older, but she seems to be getting much worse as she's aging. I don't remember her being SO irrational or distorted before.

My mom hasn't gotten better with age either.  In fact, I think now there might be an added element of early dementia or something. Whatever the cause, it can be really confusing at times. I think she flat out forgets things, and then it further distorts her reality. 

Excerpt
Either way, after talking to them, it was the final nail in the coffin. I have finally accepted that my mom is, in fact, dead in my life. It is both devastating and freeing. I wouldn't wish this situation or feeling on my worst enemy. Thank you guys so much for the support. It has meant the world to me.  With affection (click to insert in post)

I'm so sad you are going through this, I know it hurts terribly.    Virtual hug (click to insert in post)
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madeline7
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« Reply #8 on: July 03, 2020, 09:12:03 AM »

So your Dad said not to contact him unless it was "meaningful". That is the opposite IMO of what communication is with a BPD m and enabler Dad. I also want to say that in your first post, you said something to the effect that if you don't meet with them, then your Mom won. To me, I would say the opposite. It sounds like you have been very clear about your boundaries, have had little to no contact to maintain those boundaries, and from where I am sitting, you are a winner. The enabling in my family went on for so long, that by the time my uBPDm became a widow, she was quite elderly...and I am not far behind! So now it's less rage and all about the waif, but the manipulation and dysregulation are not only still there, but have escalated. I applaud you for your insight and strength. But yes, you are still dealing with the challenge and grief of having a parent with BPD in your life. It's really hard, we all know and support you.
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GaGrl
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« Reply #9 on: July 03, 2020, 05:16:12 PM »

Their reply to your question of what they want. ..

 "To respect your mother and to be our daughter again."

Are you curious as to what this means? I am. I might follow up with a letter saying something like.

"You said you want me to respect my mother and to be your daughter again. I too desire a relationship in which we all -- Mom, Dad, my husband, and me -- respect each other. Understanding that my marriage is not up for negotiation, can you tell me how this would look to you?"

Would either your mother or father be able to reply with anything substantial?

I can understand if you don't attempt to communicate. That dinner was a classic "bait and switch" ! I would be very angry, and so disappointed in your father.
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Choosinghope
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« Reply #10 on: July 05, 2020, 08:05:22 PM »

Excerpt
My mom hasn't gotten better with age either.  In fact, I think now there might be an added element of early dementia or something. Whatever the cause, it can be really confusing at times. I think she flat out forgets things, and then it further distorts her reality.
Mata, thank for sharing this. It helps to know that this isn't entirely out of the ordinary. The odd thing about my mom is that some things she remembers crystal clearly, and other things are incredibly distorted. I think her memory is fine. I'm starting to think that she has decided something must be true (I am rejecting her and my H is the cause) and so she has to remember certain events to support that truth. The events that already so support her she can remember as they were. I don't know if that makes sense, but it is the only way I can explain her very odd memory right now.

Excerpt
So your Dad said not to contact him unless it was "meaningful". That is the opposite IMO of what communication is with a BPD m and enabler Dad.
Madeline 7, yes, that was one of the hard parts of the conversation. My T and I had developed a strategy for continued contact with my mom that involved contact on a very superficial basis. I could still have my mom in my life and show her that I care, but I wouldn't allow her to have any kind of hold in my life. Think greeting cards, chats about her cats and her friends, going to family functions, etc. I did that over mother's/father's day, sending a card with a gift card and a short message. They returned both cards and said that the cards were insulting and hateful because they were generic and superficial. My mom was very clear that she didn't want any contact with me that wasn't "meaningful," which I am taking to mean the closeness that we had before things went crazy last year. My strategy that I was going to use really won't work now, so I am really thinking that all I have left to offer her is nice thoughts/prayers and an open door for future contact. She will take that as rejection and the final proof of my corruption, but I am going to view it as necessary for my well being.

Excerpt
Are you curious as to what this means? I am. I might follow up with a letter saying something like.
"You said you want me to respect my mother and to be your daughter again. I too desire a relationship in which we all -- Mom, Dad, my husband, and me -- respect each other. Understanding that my marriage is not up for negotiation, can you tell me how this would look to you?"
Would either your mother or father be able to reply with anything substantial?
Gagrl, yes, I am kind of curious about this. In the moment, I didn't think to ask for more clarification because I don't always think quickly in those situations. But yes, after the fact, this seems to require more clarification. However, in a way it doesn't. I have been disrespecting my mother (theoretically) by sending a mother's day card, for not calling her during a pandemic (even though I did), for being hostile when she visited (I didn't), and for not waiting until my parent's had met/given their approval of my now H before getting engaged. I don't see any of those things as being disrespectful, and yet, they do. I don't think that they would be able to come up with anything substantial in response to a request for more clarification. It would be some variant of, "Stop doing what you have been doing and just be our daughter again." The other part of the situation is that my mom told me during the supper that she has no desire to ever see my H again. I can't remember her exact words, but it was something to the effect of "he will never be a part of my life." With all those pieces in mind, although I would dearly love to be able to stop hurting my mom and "respect" her as she wishes, I have to face reality and realize that she'll never respect my H. And that's more important to me now.
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Panda39
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« Reply #11 on: July 06, 2020, 11:31:16 AM »

"To respect your mother and to be our daughter again."

My interpretation of this is...do what we want, fill your place in our dysfunction, make us comfortable by joining us in the dysfunction, stop rocking the boat and then you can be our daughter again.

This is about their discomfort around your healthy choices.  It's hard to be a force of change in a dysfunctional dynamic...setting boundaries...being a separate independent person, putting yourself and husband first etc. but you are doing the right thing for you.  You count here too, it isn't all about them.

Panda39
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Choosinghope
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« Reply #12 on: July 06, 2020, 03:59:00 PM »

Excerpt
This is about their discomfort around your healthy choices.  It's hard to be a force of change in a dysfunctional dynamic...setting boundaries...being a separate independent person, putting yourself and husband first etc. but you are doing the right thing for you.  You count here too, it isn't all about them.

Thanks for the validation and the reminder! It's so easy to fall into the trap of thinking that self care is selfish.
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