I Can't Figure This Out

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

I have made the difficult decision to break it off with my ex.  She exhibits most of the symptoms of BPD and I can't take it anymore, the violence, the cheating, the embarrassing behaviors in public.

She cheated over and over again right under my nose and seemingly for no other reason than I didn't do as she pleased.  I really don't know what makes a pwBPD tick, so I can't be sure.  And that leads to my question.

This other man moved into her house.  He was acquainted with her many years ago and hasn't seen her in nearly 50 years.  After reuniting briefly on social media, they declared their love.  This doesn't seem right to me.  I realize that this is a pattern for a pwBPD, but she also has money, and that makes me wonder about this guy.

But here's my real problem.  Although she declares that she's in love with this guy and they're playing House together, she attempts to contact me daily.  She has appealed to me in many different ways from angry, accusatory, pleading, and flattering.  What's going on?  She has a new victim/boyfriend.  Why is she even contacting me at all? 

Is this a thing with this disorder?  Please help.  I don't know what to do. 

[BlueSpring]

I have made the difficult decision to break it off with my ex.  She exhibits most of the symptoms of BPD and I can't take it anymore, the violence, the cheating, the embarrassing behaviors in public.

She cheated over and over again right under my nose and seemingly for no other reason than I didn't do as she pleased.  I really don't know what makes a pwBPD tick, so I can't be sure.  And that leads to my question.

This other man moved into her house.  He was acquainted with her many years ago and hasn't seen her in nearly 50 years.  After reuniting briefly on social media, they declared their love.  This doesn't seem right to me.  I realize that this is a pattern for a pwBPD, but she also has money, and that makes me wonder about this guy.

But here's my real problem.  Although she declares that she's in love with this guy and they're playing House together, she attempts to contact me daily.  She has appealed to me in many different ways from angry, accusatory, pleading, and flattering.  What's going on?  She has a new victim/boyfriend.  Why is she even contacting me at all? 

Is this a thing with this disorder?  Please help.  I don't know what to do. 

[grumpydonut]

I would say you have triggered her fear of abandonment.

[BlueSpring]

She has a strong fear of abandonment, but she has this guy duped into thinking he's in a relationship.  Granted, he has been living with her for only a week and trouble is already brewing.  From what she texted me, they're fighting over something he does that she doesn't like.  I'm guessing that he's thinking it's a small thing that will resolve,  and he doesn't realize that this will never go away.  She's latched onto it.  She told me that she even called his elderly mother and involved her in the dispute.  Further, she calls him by my name and laughs about it.  It seems to me that she has a new playmate to torture.  Why does she still want me?  Is it some kind of BPD bonus?

[grumpydonut]

I'm not sure re. torture, but she's definitely lacking integrity and empathy.

[brighter future]

I agree with the statements above on this being about the fear of abandonment. I've learned through my own therapy that this is what BPD people fear the most.

On and off throughout my relationship with my ex-g/f, she would say "Please don't ever leave me. I'm afraid your'e going to eventually get tired of my craziness and leave." Then there was the statement "Being with you is like and addiction for me, when I'm away from you I crave that feeling." Ultimately what caused her to bolt in the end from the relationship was the fact that I told her she needed to get help for her issues prior to us getting engaged/married. She never got help and left me instead. I guess she figured it would be easier for her to abandon me as opposed to me abandoning her, and I suppose it's easier for her to stay broken rather than fixing herself.

[Gemsforeyes]

Dear BlueSpring-

She is engaged in what is called “Triangulating”.  Not a good thing.  Please read about that under the TOOLS, WORKSHOPS sections on this site to gain an understanding of the very bad position you’re allowing yourself to be placed in.

If you’re seeking an opinion, here’s mine ( simply from experience).  I know you still have feelings for her and I’m sorry.  However there’s another man Living in her home.  The best for YOU (and her in the end, if she’s EVER to learn or heal) is for you to completely step away.  Disengage and let this other relationship play out however it will...withOUT your thoughts or input to her .  She’s 62 years old...NOT new at relationships.

You are ALLOWED to say, “I’m sorry, but I cannot engage with you for the foreseeable future.  And leave it at that.  She’s done enough to figure out the “why’s”. 

And little by little, it’s time for you to take care of yourself, my friend.

To me, she exhibits some narc traits...

Your thoughts?

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

[Lucky Jim]

Hey BlueSpring, I echo Gems: To me the question is not why she is contacting you daily, but rather why are you still in regular contact with this person, your Ex, when she's living with another man?  Time to move on, my friend.  If she suffers from BPD, you will never get to the bottom of it, in my experience.

LuckyJim

[BlueSpring]

"Now it seems that you wanted a martyr
Just a regular guy wouldn't do
But, baby, I can't hang upon
No lover's cross for you"
Lover's Cross
Jim Croce

Thanks to everyone for your thoughtful responses.  I took some time to think and read about Triangulation, and I things are clearing up.

Gems, you're right, and I thank you for the best advice I've gotten so far.  All the time she and I were together, she always had a third party lurking in the background.  These were men she would meet online and keep them on the hook just in case I didn't perform as she pleased. At her slightest displeasure, she would cheat and blame it on me.  They apparently were her "spares."  It's the BPD form of Triangulation to always have a "spare" as insurance against that irrational fear of abandonment. That's how she got this current guy, and there have been many others before him.  I'm sure there will be many others while this current thing is going on. 

Here's what's happening, she wants to make me her "spare."  That's why she is hanging on with daily contact.  In fact, she called me just this morning, but I didn't answer.  And it comes from her fear of abandonment.  This is all very unhealthy, and I will take your advice and keep a good distance from her. 

I must confess that this is difficult.  Looking at myself, I realize I have to deal with that need in me to "rescue."  And I did love her.  I fell for that "poor me" victimhood, and, for so long, leaving her felt like leaving a puppy in the woods.  But I've read that this is all part of what a pwBPD does, and playing on compassion is calculated and something they do very well. 

Now that I have some idea of what's going on, and how a pwBPD thinks, I think I can manage this situation a little better.  I'm sure there will be more ups and downs as I deal with this and move on.  I just hope she doesn't show up at my door like she's done before.

I'm very grateful for all the help and advice from everyone.  This is a great site, and I'm happy to know I'm not alone.  I'll be here, and I hope all of you will be too. 

[BlueSpring]

Just one more thing.  Since she keeps attempting to contact me and tell me how great her new boyfriend is, I've blocked her.  She's not going to use me as some kind of weird pawn in her dysfunctional relationships.  As far as I'm concerned, she's gone for good. 

Now to deal with the pain.  I'll need support.  Thanks.

[Lucky Jim]

Since she keeps attempting to contact me and tell me how great her new boyfriend is, I've blocked her.  She's not going to use me as some kind of weird pawn in her dysfunctional relationships. 

Well said, BlueSpring.  Now you can begin healing.  We're here to help you along the way.

LJ

[BlueSpring]

Thanks, LJ,
Now I just have to deal with the hurting.  I can't figure out why I'm hurting over someone who treated me so bad.  Is it because I'm remembering the good in her, or have I gone crazy myself in the process?  A pwBPD is intense, so the times when she was happy were very good, but the bad times were unbearable.  I'm going to miss the good times, but I need to remember that during those good times, I was always anxious and waiting for monster to come out.

I'm looking for a therapist in my area. 

[Lucky Jim]

Hey BlueSpring, It's normal to feel regret about missing the good times, but you have to balance those memories out with the bad times, as you are doing.  Right, it's a roller coaster of a r/s that goes from very good to very bad.  The hard thing to grasp is that you can't have one without the other in a BPD r/s; you can't have Dr. Jekyll without Mr. Hyde.  Like you, I was always waiting for the other shoe to drop.  I used to say, "a BPD storm cloud can appear out of a clear blue sky"!  Yes, a BPD b/u is painful, but going through the wringer is what leads to greater happiness, so keep that in mind.

LJ

[Gemsforeyes]

Hey BlueSpring-

You’re at the dawn of your exit, so please go easy on yourself.  Little steps.  Hurting is normal.  Tears and rumination, cycling in your head are expected. Okay.  And then MAKE yourself DO something else...even for a few minutes.  But try not to respond to her attempts at contact. 

You are Detaching.  This is for you, NOT her.

She calls or texts, you block or ignore.  She shows up at your door, you tell her to leave or you will have her removed.  You tell her if she’s got something intelligent to communicate, an email will suffice.  And then you choose if and when to read or respond.  YOU drive communication.  Full stop.

This sounds trite, I know... but I’d make myself (still do) watch funny you tube videos (John Mulaney, Wanda Sykes), after binge-watching Dr. Ramani videos about Narcissistic behaviors.  I would actually laugh out loud at those stand-up comics after wearing myself out getting an understanding of my BF’s impact on me.  Please search for the Dr. Ramani vids where she’s alone, not with the guy.

The Dr. Ramani videos, about narcissistic behaviors really really helped me, because my exBF had so many overlapping behaviors.  I obtained real clarity there.  Maybe you can, too?

There’s another section in the TOOLS, WORKSHOPS  on this site that may be worth a read for you - “FOG” - (Fear, Obligation, Guilt).  Often a reason it’s difficult to “let go”. 

For me, well I “thought” in my gifted mind of sorts, that I held the key to help him.  That I knew what no one else knew.  That he could finally, FINALLY, solve his RAGING, lying, chaotic, angry, lonely life.  Nope.  I’m not that gifted or special. I’m no one in fact. 

And I am CERTAIN now that I am just one is a very very long line of women who loved this man that he used and degraded and left in a crumpled mess.  Only I was stupid enough to stay long enough (6.5 years) to figure out that he actually has traits of mental illness.  Or several mental illnesses.  And long enough to figure out that by staying that long, so do I.  Nice job at this ripe old age!  But I started therapy a few years ago.

And the Triangulation in mine?  Sick and twisted as it is... is with his mother.  When I truly saw that, I was out.  Too too sick for me.  And he knew it, too, but would do nothing about it except try and draw me in... and smear me to her, and her to me when he raged.  No more.  Enough.

I do believe now, with every fiber of myself after what I’ve lived that you CANNOT help someone who doesn’t commit to their own mental health.  I could not love him to honesty or wellness. None of us is that powerful.  Yea, it’s sad... but it’s true.

I think... that since everything with pwBPD are in such extremes we somehow become convinced that something about these relationships is the “best” we’ve ever known.  The highest and the lowest.  For me, I was wrong.  Nothing about it was the ‘best” or the “highest”.  But it was the WORST.  I only thought it was the BEST because his words convinced me.  He was wrong.  So so wrong... now that I’ve taken possession of my own brain and thoughts.

And BlueSpring, there will be days five months later where you do not think of her.  I promise you that.  You had a life before her.  You’ll have a life and identity after her.  Give yourself that chance.

Your thoughts?

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

[Cromwell]

Hi Bluespring

Between both of you as every relationship, in order to understand must see it as an interplay between minimum 2 participants.

In other words, to understand, we have to see our own part to play for this part is going to be a factor in how each interaction plays out.

Can I ask, would you call her, relatively, more "selfish" than yourself?

I know you have appealed here for help in addressing the "real" problem of understanding her.

What do you make of the fact that in the meantime, your needs, wants and wishes seem to have been neglected into a lonely corner.

[BlueSpring]

Hi Gems, Cromwell, LJ,
It's another Sunday, and I went to church.  My ex had a problem with my going to church.  It was another way to control me. 

She continues to attempt to call me daily.  I have her blocked, so I just see the attempts, but today she left a voice message.  She continues to blame me for the break-up and not her cheating.  Yet, she is begging for me to talk to her and "be her friend."

Thanks to all of you and what I've learned here, I can be strong and know what's happening.  She still needs that control, and I believe much of this is being driven by her fear of abandonment.  She has this new guy, but she always needs a third party, a spare, and she wants me for that job.  Not going to happen!  No way!

I'm detaching and taking care of myself.  Time is passing, and I'm getting to a point where I'm letting go of being the rescuer.  But I have to admit that communication with her or seeing her attempts to call me, still upset me.  I guess that's going to go on for a while. 

Thanks for being here, and I'll keep posting to let you know what's going on.  I've been reading other people's posts, and I can learn from their stories.  I'm hoping that when I get a better grip on this, I can be of help to them. 

[BDR]

Thanks for your dialogue and being transparent I am gleaning so much from all of your comments and conversations - so nice to discuss more weightier subjects and know there are others out there going through very similar circumstances, 

[BlueSpring]

Hi BDR,
I'm happy to help.  I'm glad to know that my story is helping you.  I have to keep telling myself that I'm better off now, but I'm going through the detaching and "missing" her stage where I'm remembering the good and forgetting the bad.  But we have to remember that the bad is so bad, unreasonable, and intolerable that we have to leave before it destroys us.

Today is a rough one because the Devil is a liar, and the lies I'm hearing today are:
1.  It really was all your fault
2. She's better off without you
3. You drove her madness
4. This new guy will be her saving grace

I know those are lies because all I have to do is look at all of her other failed relationships with other romantic partners and with friends.  But today, the Devil is lying in my ear.  One thing that helps me is prayer, and I pray that God shuts the mouth of the Enemy. 

I sincerely hope that you gain freedom from your bad relationship.  A pwBPD can cause chaos and destruction in our lives.  You, and all of us, deserve to be free from that. 

Sincerly,
BlueSpring

[BlueSpring]

Hi Cromwell,
You bring up a good point for me to consider, and that's my needs.  Now that you bring it up, it has occurred to me that my needs were always neglected or disregarded completely.

There were times during the relationship where I needed to be alone, or I needed peace or encouragement.  And these could have arisen because of every day stress or because she was so demanding that I needed to refresh and regroup my own energy.  These needs were always pushed into the "lonely corner," and she violently demanded that I come over and be with her.  She just wanted my presence, and even while I was sitting there next to her, she was online flirting with other guys. 

I know I'm better off now, but this whole thing has left me rattled.

[BDR]

I am 6 weeks no vocal or text contact but one session when she was in rehab with counselor and she shared a written apology and discussed her life plan to recovery  and we dialoged for about 20 minutes. We have had a few emails that is the only line of communication I left open . I have yet to pull trigger on starting divorce - but we discussed it with counselor and we all agreed it is a must (she destroyed the marriage and all trust and I enabled her ) and the quicker the better . She is now back living with her parents . Our conversations are loving and for some strange reason beyond logic  I would take her back - but I know I cant , I have 2 teenage daughters that wont speak to her for what she has done and I have to be there for them .She ended the e mail with " I Love you BDR" and I wept like a baby - so much for Mr. tough guy. I cant hear her voice right now it would be too painful.

[once removed]

Although she declares that she's in love with this guy and they're playing House together, she attempts to contact me daily.  She has appealed to me in many different ways from angry, accusatory, pleading, and flattering.  What's going on?  She has a new victim/boyfriend.  Why is she even contacting me at all? 
...
But I've read that this is all part of what a pwBPD does, and playing on compassion is calculated and something they do very well. 

what is often lost in exploring a breakup with someone with bpd traits is the human nature component.

i think this is probably not as simple as your ex calculating and playing on your compassion to string you along while she strings another guy along. people with bpd traits are impulsive by nature, and "wing it" based on emotions, more than anything. but in general, most people really arent that clever, and these are not the sorts of things that motivate them.

what is true is that the transition from lover, to ex, to friend, is a really awkward one that goes nowhere 98% of the time, and what is generally true about people with bpd traits is that they can be selfish and insensitive in the process.

its likely that the two of you were on very different pages leading up to the breakup, and you are on very different pages now.

to some extent, when she badmouths the new guy, when she calls you up, when things are good between the two of you, it gets your hopes up. and when she speaks well of the new guy, asks you to be her friend, you feel disrespected and unappreciated. and that feels deliberate.

from where shes sitting, she just sucks at all of this. she doesnt have the skills, the character, the insight, to see what shes doing. shes winging it. and certainly, behaving selfishly.

it doesnt really sound like you want to be her friend, at least not any time soon, if at all. in that regard, you definitely want to step away; let her relationship play out, stand or fall on its own merits, you dont want to be any part of that. and if shes letting you have it and leaving voicemails, thats unresolved drama from your relationship...not anything you want to rehash now that its over.

Today is a rough one because the Devil is a liar, and the lies I'm hearing today are:
1.  It really was all your fault
2. She's better off without you
3. You drove her madness
4. This new guy will be her saving grace

I know those are lies because all I have to do is look at all of her other failed relationships with other romantic partners and with friends.

i experienced every last one of those thoughts. i remember how much they plagued me.

heres the thing. everyone has a history of failed relationships with romantic partners. every relationship until the last one fails.

likewise, our relationship with our partner failed.

your psyche, as part of its healing process, wants to better understand why. it wants to make sense of what youve been through.

when your self esteem has taken a beating, those lessons, that process of making sense, can be very distorted...very critical, very black and white.

my advice would be, as much as possible, to set those things, those questions, for a latter stage in detaching. get your self esteem back first.

[BlueSpring]

Hi Once Removed,
Thanks for your insights.  They are much appreciated. 

The emotional nature of her character is paramount.  Ever since I met her, I've noticed that she seems to exercise no logic or restraint at all.  I got involved with her because I was a shop steward where we worked together, and I was helping her with an incident in which she could have had a legitimate case against management.  I advised her not to talk to anyone until I could set up a meeting with Union representation.  Instead, I guess a manager provoked her into a meeting that ended with her cussing everyone out.  After that, she was suspended and failed to follow up with her options.  My point here is that she did react emotionally rather than rationally.

She does panic when the fear of abandonment takes hold of her, and she would feel abandoned if I was late coming home from work, or if a stopped by my house to walk my dog (we didn't live together), or worst of all if I went out with friends after work.  She has told me that she can't be left alone at all.  However, the last time she tried moving another man into her house, she complained that he was "always in her face."  She didn't like the fact that he never left her alone.  Maybe that's the "fear of intimacy" I keep hearing about.

On the subject of failed relationships.  Yes, none of us can throw stones, but I've never seen anyone burn through people as fast as she does.  Typically the friendships begin warm and intense, but they all have ended angry and violently.  To the point where these people cut her off forever, one party attempted to sue her but couldn't get the papers served because she wouldn't answer her door.  I have little reason to believe this current thing she has going on will fare any better unless he likes being treated like a pet.  And that's what I have concluded: a pwBPD doesn't want a relationship she/he wants a human pet. 

I get the impulsivity.  That's what's got her arrested several times already.  Right now I'm hurt, confused, and angry, but I don't hate her.  I must confess that I often err in judging her from the point of view of the unafflicted and think, "Why can't you just act like an adult."  I know now that that was a big mistake on my part.  She just can't control her feeling and impulses.  But I had to make a decision to leave because it really is like dealing with a child who is emotional all the time. 

This is just some stuff I've had to get off my chest.  I consider myself a rational, logical thinker, and it's baffling to me how I got caught up in such craziness. 

[once removed]

The emotional nature of her character is paramount.

ive followed your story, and she can be a bit of a train wreck; i dont want to gloss over that aspect of both your relationship, and what youre experiencing now. like you said: the violence, the cheating, and, for that matter, what youre experiencing now.

my point is that youre really dealing with someone totally at the mercy of their emotions in the moment. not someone with a great deal of skill in navigating life, relationships, or breakups. not someone with a great deal of awareness of how they affect others.

On the subject of failed relationships.  Yes, none of us can throw stones, but I've never seen anyone burn through people as fast as she does.

i didnt mean to call you out for throwing stones.

my point was more that tying your recovery to whether her relationship succeeds or fails will ultimately inhibit your detachment. i counted the days, weeks, and months, betting on my exs relationship ending, and ultimately, it lasted longer than ours did.

but by that point (they were together 4 years), i didnt see it as a reflection on me, or our relationship. ideally, all of us "do a little better each time", from one relationship to the next. and ideally, we lose a little bit of the baggage, from one relationship to the next. your exs new relationship may fail spectacularly tomorrow. or it may last a few more weeks, or a few months. or it may last forever. or it may last forever, and not be anything youd ever want to be a part of.

the question is, where will you be (not now) in a few months, six months, a year, a few years?

and i dont expect you to know, or to answer that now. what im talking about is stage three of detaching - further down the road. im just giving you something to set your sights on, as you deal with the hardest stuff now 

[BlueSpring]

Hi and thanks for the insights.

She really can't deal with her emotions.  In fact, I've never dealt with someone so emotional.  It's kind of an old saying, but it's true that she doesn't control her emotions; her emotions control her.

For several days, she made attempts to call me, and then yesterday, she didn't try to call me.  I guess it all depends on how those emotions are firing on any day. 

I must confess that I have anger and hurt issues to deal with.  I feel like she used me.  I always felt like she was just keeping me around to keep her company while she looked for someone else.  And it seems like that's exactly what she did.  She was always flirting with some guy on social media even while I was sitting right next to her.  She justified that by saying it was because I wouldn't move in with her.  And then along comes this guy, and he moves in with her. 

This is why I'm hoping that whole thing blows up like the Hindenburg.  I'm having a hard time dealing with it.  She wrecked my life, my job, and my friendships over the course of 3 years, and I'm hoping this last move blows up in her face. 

So there's my confession.  Maybe I'm not the most enlightened human on the planet.  I'm just an average human.