Complicated dynamics, feeling trapped

[Torn Asunder]

First post, my therapist recommended seeking out some support groups.

My husband has a complicated mental health history including complex PTSD and OCD. I (and our couple's therapist) suspect BPD as well. I myself have some pretty severe anxiety and social issues.

I don't really have anyone to talk about this stuff with, and I'm hoping I can find that here.

My husband has attempted suicide once in the past, and has struggled with SI and apathy (I don't want to exist) since then. It seems like every time we have a fight (every night it seems) we get to a point where he's just throwing that in my face over and over again. There's a lot of phrases like, "I can't keep doing this, you're killing me." In addition to typical "You don't/won't/never care about me", "You're a liar" and "You're just being selfish." In the morning, things are better for him but I'm often still shaky and trying to keep it together emotionally. I'm very much feeling trapped. I feel like if I leave he will either kill himself or just let himself die. We've talked about this, so he's aware I feel that way. With all of the fighting and instability I do want to leave. I'm so terrified of what he'll believe I said that I'm reduced to just agreeing with him all the time, without any room to have opinions or feelings of my own. If things could get better I'd feel better, but I don't have any hope of that.

I know logically that I'm not responsible for his actions, and if I decided to leave and the worst happened it wouldn't be my fault. But, I still care deeply about him and his wellbeing. I'd never do something like run away in the middle of the night. He can't work, so I'm prepared to split my income 50/50 with him so he wouldn't need to worry about money. I care so much that the thought of the worst is unbearable, so I just stay and take the anger and instability.

I don't know what to expect here, but I'm hoping someone can tell me I'm not alone in this, because right now I feel alone.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Cat Familiar]

Well you’re definitely not alone. My ex husband frequently threatened suicide and I stayed for years, much longer than I should have. As far as I know, he’s still alive, as creditors occasionally call me, trying to track him down for unpaid bills.

As you’re well aware, threatening suicide is unfortunately common with pwBPD (people with BPD). Here’s a thread from other members who’ve dealt with similar concerns.
suicidal ideation

I’m going to move your post to the Bettering board since we encourage new members to start there. The focus of Bettering is to learn new approaches for dealing with our partners’ dysfunctional behaviors and also to learn strategies to protect ourselves so we don’t get so deeply drawn into their emotional quagmires.

Best, Cat

[RolandOfEld]

Hi Torn Asunder and welcome to the board. Seconding Cat in telling you that you are absolutely not alone! The more time you spend here engaging with other posts and members, the more you discover how many people are facing the exact same struggles. I certainly was when I first arrived.

I'm sorry for the all the burdens you are bearing right now - emotional, financial, psychological. I'd like to turn away from your husband's struggles for the moment to ask what you have in terms of self care. Do you have a special time or activity dedicated to yourself? A club? Listening to music? Do you have any friends or family to prop you up when the situation at home is dragging you down?

~ROE

[Torn Asunder]

Gosh, this got moved and I'm feeling like I was a little melodramatic now. I was pretty wrecked emotionally when I made the original post and today has been going better than yesterday. Thanks for giving me a nudge towards improvement.

On the other hand, I'm also just waiting for the other shoe to drop.

ROE asked about self-care. I think the only thing that I can carve out a hard boundary on is work. It is, for the most part, fulfilling. Though this is also an old old coping mechanism I learned young. I'd throw myself into school to cope with the issues at home. The problem I have now is that my husband doesn't really take care of himself. He can, with effort, but there's a million things throughout the day that he'll ask me for help with. They're often small, like "Can you throw this out for me?" or "Can you get me a snack from the kitchen?" He does this usually when he thinks it's not "out of my way." And yeah, none of these things take a lot of time by themselves, but I'm spending loads of energy monitoring him just in case one of those little things comes up. We had agreed that I could have an hour to myself some nights. Usually I don't have a lot of energy left so I try to recharge with some games. Sometimes I work on a pet project. But even then I'm on alert, waiting to respond to anything he needs. I'm even on alert when I'm working, which I'd just said is the only hard boundary I've really tried to carve out.

I should clarify, he asks for help a lot, but he also does have legitimate issues. Just one is that he gets joint pains that we think are depression related, and it makes it hard for him to do a lot of fine motor stuff (like tie shoes). But he also takes on more than he can reliably handle on a daily basis. We recently adopted a wonderful cat, and a boundary I tried to set upon adoption was that he does food and litter. We already have two dogs that I do all of the caretaking for. He agreed, but four months later and I'm the only one doing food, and rapidly becoming the only one doing litter.

I know the answer here is to set firm boundaries. But it's tough to set those when he tells me he can't eat, or shower, or take care of himself without my help. And when I try, I get called selfish, I get told I don't care about him, etc.

[once removed]

i found this place nearly ten years ago. i have never in my life found a better support group. im glad you reached out.

i think the first thing would be for us to know a little bit more about how these moments between the two of you transpire. as Cat Familiar mentioned, this board is about examining new approaches.

so, youre having a lot of fights, seemingly every night. what are they about? how do they go?

[Torn Asunder]

There are a couple of patterns:
- I give some pushback on a request.
- I say something, not realizing there's an interpretation where that thing is hyper-critical, and my husband gets angry and refuses to let me clarify. I call this the "clarifying intentions" problem
- I make a request, in contradiction with what my husband wants or thinks is fair. I call this the "bad request" problem.

Giving pushback usually devolves into my husband saying "you're being selfish," and getting upset. I, not being strong enough to handle the tears or anger, usually give in after three or four rounds of yelling and just attempt to do whatever it was (angrily) in an attempt to stop what's happening. This doesn't stop the yelling. Usually we progress to some form of him saying, "You always try to solve the short-term problem while never addressing your larger issues." Sometimes, he physically stops me from doing what he wanted in the first place. I'm usually in placate and shutdown mode now, just trying to escape the situation.

If the problem is clarifying intentions, usually it starts innocuous. We're having a conversation. Maybe it's about something serious but maybe not. I'll say something that comes across as hurtful, without meaning to. My husband gets angry and starts attacking/accusing/judging me. He usually doesn't tell me how he's feeling. A lot of the time I'll respond with defensiveness. The times where I've had the presence of mind to reframe his statements into "I statements" I've been able to respond with an apology and a clarification. This isn't usually accepted, and will get turned back on me as "You're just trying to weasel out of it." Things typically devolve from here until we exhaust ourselves.

The "bad request" problem happens when I tell my husband I need or want him to do something. He will respond with anger, and tell me things like "I should be able to do it myself." Sometimes he'll just flat out get angry and tell me no, and I'm being selfish for asking. This happened today, he's been claiming one bathroom (the one on the living floor) as his own so when I asked to use it (he was leaving the floor soon) he told me I was putting too much pressure on him and I was being selfish. Deciding I didn't want to fight this today I just did what he wanted and used the basement bathroom. Not being satisfied, the next time he saw me he had more angry words. I told him I needed to go back to work and he let me, but that doesn't always happen.

In all of these cases, when I sense things have devolved into what I perceive as an irreparable interaction I try to leave the situation. I tell him, as calmly as I can manage, that I don't think this is productive anymore and I'm going to go isolate myself before I lose control. This really only further enrages my husband. He'll shout after me, sometimes chase me to the room (I've started locking doors), sometimes he'll threaten to destroy something of mine (I tell him to do it, usually he doesn't), sometimes he'll physically block me from leaving (he slammed a gate on my foot once and hurt his hand while doing it. I got the blame though). It usually only ends when we both exhaust ourselves and go to sleep. We sleep in separate rooms, but that's more because he has an erratic sleep schedule and can't stand the bed we have.

My primary de-escalation tools are "I statements" and non-violent communication. What else can I try?

[once removed]

"You always try to solve the short-term problem while never addressing your larger issues."

sometimes, our partners, in between the distortions, say what they really mean, as clear as day.

heed this one.

understand what he is really saying.

begin to think of your relationship more in terms of fire prevention than putting out fires. the long game.

and, in fairness, take it not so much as "your issues" as "the way your style contributes to conflict in the marriage"...this is less about "fixing yourself", and more about harmony and getting on the same page.

this, at its core, is a conflict style, between the two of you, that looks like a dance where each step is either of you kicking the other, and one of you kicking back harder.

My primary de-escalation tools are "I statements" and non-violent communication. What else can I try?

there is a lot of room for improvement, and when i say that, i mean, there are a host of approaches that can be implemented that will improve things for you; theres a lot of hope. it will take practice...you will receive push back, his conflict style will likely not change in the short term, and things may even get worse before they get better. but seriously, there are a lot of little things that will help.

it will require learning more of the tools (learning not to JADE is always a good start, avoiding circular arguments as well), but most of all, it will require a commitment to a different mindset and approach, over time. it seems like you can see some of your responses dont help matters...likewise, thats one of the best places to start.

are you ready to make that commitment?

[RolandOfEld]

In all of these cases, when I sense things have devolved into what I perceive as an irreparable interaction I try to leave the situation. I tell him, as calmly as I can manage, that I don't think this is productive anymore and I'm going to go isolate myself before I lose control. This really only further enrages my husband. He'll shout after me, sometimes chase me to the room (I've started locking doors), sometimes he'll threaten to destroy something of mine (I tell him to do it, usually he doesn't), sometimes he'll physically block me from leaving (he slammed a gate on my foot once and hurt his hand while doing it. I got the blame though). It usually only ends when we both exhaust ourselves and go to sleep. We sleep in separate rooms, but that's more because he has an erratic sleep schedule and can't stand the bed we have.

Hi Torn Asunder, I'm going to focus on this part for now since you described my experience with my wife verbatim. It was only recently that I learned that this is an actual crime called "unlawful restraint" and is also considered a form of domestic abuse. Its also why (sorry to reference your first post) I literally "ran out in the middle of the night" and why I'm now waiting for a temporary restraining order to come through. In many years of trying, I found no communication tool that could remedy this - I either stayed or I got attacked in some form until I stayed. Eventually, I got to feeling like a caged animal and the rage would start coming out on my kids.  

I'm not directly suggesting you do the above, but I just wanted to make sure you aware you are fully justified to seek police or legal support for this issue. It doesn't neccesarily mean the end of your relationship, but its a powerful way to set a boundary.

May I ask how often does this sort of thing happen? What do you think he would do if you pulled out your phone while it was going on a got some video of this behavior?

~ROE

[Torn Asunder]

This has been helpful, thank you. I've looked over JADE and SET and started to try and implement those in our interactions.

Thank you ROE for pointing out about "unlawful restraint". We've actually been video-taping our arguments more often because it helps to have a record of our communications in therapy.

I really lost my cool the other day over something stupid though. I've thought a lot about it and it's not the argument itself that made me lose my cool, it's being constantly treated like a crutch without any appreciation. To the point where when I was laid up in bed for a day with a stomach flu, I was being yelled at for being too hard to take care of (I just asked for fluids, and when I could get up I got my own stuff). Not a great experience, but it was a while ago.

Mood-wise, I feel like things are improving. But time will tell if things stay that way. Thanks again for all the help.