Married Over 25 Years and This Is My First Post

[Kristacat91]

Hi all,
I’ve been a lurker for several years on this site, but I’ve never posted before. Frankly, I’ve kind of been frozen on what to do, but things have sort of come to a head the last few weeks and, well, here I am.

I’ve been married to my husband for over 25 years and while I’m not a professional and can’t actually diagnose him, he has many of the traits of BDP. Since early in our marriage—even before then—he has has terrifying rages that come out of nowhere, he has issues with abandonment (ie: if everyone leaves the house to go grocery shopping, he will say, “Why are you abandoning me?” And for years, if I went out of town for work, he would have huge tantrums and terrorize the children, etc. Or if I go somewhere for a few hours, he texts or calls a lot, like he can’t stand to be away from me, etc..), he has big issues with impulse control—he drinks a lot, smokes a lot, drives crazy, and most recently, I have finally had to admit that he’s been unfaithful to me numerous times—to the point of serial infidelity. I have concrete evidence of that I’ve tried not to see, but I can’t ignore it any longer.

We have five children and they are mostly grown (three are still in college). By some miracle, the kids are over all pretty well-adjusted, do well in school, have good lives, etc. I have concerns about some BPD tendencies in at least two of them, but they are nowhere near like their father (that’s probably another post), but over all, they seem pretty well-adjusted over all. I find that miraculous, considering some of the crap those kids have been through (and I feel huge guilt about that, too, but that’s also another post). That said, the kids, while they love their dad, have a tense relationship with him at times and one of the biggest triggers for him is that he feels it’s my fault when they seem to be closer to me and he rages that I “turned the kids against” him.  He gets upset when they come to the house and sit with me to chat, or if they ask me for money or advice, or call me by pet names. I think he feels rejected. But the kids have a lot of baggage about him—nights when he’d rage at the entire house for waking him up, for example (ie: if a kid got up to pee in the middle of the night and woke him up—he would rage for hours). Sometimes, those hard feelings come out when they deal with him and while there have been times that he has even articulated that he feels really bad about some things in the past (so he sometimes has SOME realization about his actions at least once in awhile), he still mainly blames me for his strained relationship with the kids.

Most recently, we went to visit one of the kids who attends college out of town. Long story short, the visit didn’t go well, you could just feel the tension growing, with him manipulating the kid, pouting and beginning to work himself up, and his actions resulted in the kid walking away from us in a public space and him being mad and going in the other direction. She refused to have anything to do with him and said, “This is why I didn’t want to see him!” We left to go back home and he yelled and raged at me in the car for two solid hours about how I’ve ruined his life and took his kids from him and how he wished he hadn’t brought me on the trip, etc.. I finally lost it (I was stuck in a car for two hours on a freeway and that was just my breaking point) and when he asked me if I had anything to say, I yelled back at him. When we returned home, he left the house and was gone for several hours—not at a bar, either, because they are all closed right now.  I am certain he was with another woman that night.

He returned home and has given me the silent treatment for three whole weeks, which is made even more difficult because we are both working from home with COVID and there is no respite. Today, he began talking to me again a little (and none too nice), but I feel something is irreparably broken for ME. It’s been that way a long time—I’ve been putting up with this behavior for far too long. Not that it matters, but I’m still not that old (we married young), I have a successful career, I’m attractive, everyone ELSE in the world seems to like me...why do I put up with this?

Yes, I realize I’m on the “Making it better” board, which is still what I would like to do, if I can have my first choice. There isn’t a “I REALLY wish this would work, but I’m also a realist” board.  When he’s not behaving like this, he’s a really wonderful person. He’s the funniest person I know, he’s compassionate, he’s intelligent, all those things. We’ve been through a lot together and we’ve been married 25 years. Also, I can SEE him suffering and my heart breaks for him. I can tell he’s depressed and sad and broken and I just don’t know how to help him. Even when he’s telling me how evil I am for “turning the kids against him,” I just feel sad, if not frustrated.  I decided a few nights ago (from the couch, where I’m sleeping since he kicked me out of our bed—or rather, he made it so horrible to sleep in the same room, I had to come to the couch) that I’m going to re-read SWoE (I read it years ago, but found it really scary to drawn boundaries with five young kids—it was easier to just go along and hope things got better) and take part in these boards, and really give it a go. To try to communicate appropriately with him, to draw boundaries, to set limits.  I also plan to find a therapist for myself to help me with my own boundary issues. I also used to drink quite a bit in an attempt to self-medicate my anxiety, but exactly a year ago, I quit drinking entirely and  that has given me a lot of clarity. Anyway, I’m going to try to really give this a go and if at the end of all that, it’s still horrible, I can make a different decision. But for now, I want to try to see if this can be salvaged. I hope that makes sense.

Anyway, thanks for reading. I’m glad to be a part of this board. 

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Vincenta]

Hi Kristacat,

and welcome  - glad that you found this board! People here do care, and can relate.

Now, as a start, please read the articles under ‘ tools’ here; it will give you a good overview on communication methods, how to mitigate the conflicts,  basics on validation etc.

And your idea of getting a therapist is a very good one! Please try to get one experienced of Personal disorders.

Moreover, just a question: how are YOU doing at the moment? YOU - not your spouse, or any of your children.
Just YOU.
How are YOU, really? We are here to listen. And as said, we do care. And can relate.

Warmly,

Vincenta

[Vincenta]

Addition: please see also the safety related articles under the tools - e.g,. Road rage is an aggressive act,  whereas silent treatment might be  a “just’ passive-aggressive one.
However, both aggressive ones, and harmful - but  the road rage might hurt you physically, too. So please do take the safety test, too.

[Vincenta]

Addition: please see also the safety related articles under the tools - e.g,. Road rage is an aggressive act,  whereas silent treatment might be  a “just’ passive-aggressive one.
However, both aggressive ones, and harmful - but  the road rage might hurt you physically, too. So please do take the safety test, too.

[RolandOfEld]

Hi Kristacat91 and congratulations on taking your first step! I too was a lurker on the board for a while before I made my first post, and it was one of the most important moments of my life.

I'd also like to applaud you taking the steps of getting yourself a therapist. You will need professional guidance on your journey to a better life. Note that I don't define a "better life" as one with or without your husband, but its clear you are fed up with things as they have been and are taking the initiative to make things better for YOU.

I'm sad to hear about all you've gone through and are going through, especially now with COVID limiting your ability to get distance when you need it. May I ask what outlets you have to let off stress and practice self-care? A hobby? A friend or family member you can vent to when needed?

~ROE

[Britishsummer]

Hi,

I have no idea how to offer advice, but I’m living your life too, only I’m 10 years in, with 4  very young children. I took comfort in your post, the boy about how well balanced your children are, I’m terrified mine will be harmed mentally by their father’s behaviour.
What do you think you’re going to do? I’d leave if I could, but I have no money. And I’m not emotionally strong enough,  he constantly tells me I’m lazy and a sponger, because I don’t work, out children are 8, 7 4 2, our youngest daughter has Down syndrome, so has extra needs.
This is your post so I’ll shut up!
Let us know what you decide to do.

[Kristacat91]

Hi everyone, and thank you so much for your encouraging words.

I am doing much better this week, now that I’ve made some decisions, but last week and earlier, I was not in a good place. I even lost over ten pounds because the idea of eating made me feel overwrought and since there is no good place to go to get away, I went on a lot of walks. Yesterday, he seemed to come out of his silent treatment funk and asked me to go to lunch with him. I agreed and we went to lunch (I drove, ha, ha. More on that below) and I somewhat expected at least some discussion of what happened—particularly the infidelity because all this time, I really think he thinks I didn’t know about the infidelity and I confronted him about it last week. At one point, I felt he may say something (and in the past, he has, on RARE occasion, apologized for some of his egregious behavior, so I know he does contemplate it from time to time and does have some realizations), but he never did. I just didn’t feel strong enough to talk about anything triggering at that point, either—I think I need to have a better game plan with drawing boundaries because clearly, I’m not good at it and the idea of rocking the boat for the first time in weeks made me physically ill. This is why I need to see a therapist. I’m also, by the way, a little nervous about therapists because I’ve not had a good experience with them.  We went to marriage counseling years and years ago (when the kids were tiny) and the therapist actually asked me (not kidding), “What are you doing to make him so angry? Because it takes two people to fight...” And I was thinking, “Oh, lady, you have no idea...I had a cold and kept coughing and waking him up?  How’s that for doing something?”  Or the other time, I went by myself and explained how I felt my husband may have BPD and the therapist said, “Well, has it occurred to you that YOU may have BPD? After all, women are more likely to be diagnosed with BPD.” Again, not kidding, and I didn’t go back to her. So, I think a bad therapist can cause worse damage, which has caused some hesitation in my returning to one, but I think I found one who has some experience in personality disorders, so we shall see.

Vincenta, thank you for your advice on the road rage and I agree, it was dangerous and absolutely terrifying. This is not the first time he has raged at me in a car—it actually happens a little too frequently because he knows I can’t just walk away. Especially on a freeway.

It is difficult not being able to go to work in my office. I’m thankful to be able to work fully from home, but physically going to work is very therapeutic for me. I like to dress up and feel pretty (I started to do that again just for mental health, though). Also, when I’m at work, I’m surrounded by people who respect me, who think highly of me, and frankly, it’s like one huge supportive family (I’m so lucky to have that in my life) and while I see them all day on Zoom, it’s not the same. Those ARE most of my friends, but only very few people really know about the real situation with my husband and some of them, I don’t want to worry them. I guess that’s why I joined this board.

Britishsummer—thanks for your post, too. It’s SO hard to live through this with small children—or any children. I remember when I didn’t work, I would be terrified at what I would do with no money (and he would sometimes hold that over my head, which sent me into a panic. And he would also call me lazy and stupid and everything else). As soon as the kids were in school full time, I went to work part time and then full time. I was fortunate to work in an industry that allows for a flexible, parent-friendly schedule, but I highly recommend being able to work at least part time, if even for the reason I outlined in the previous paragraph: When someone is raging at you or criticizing you, it’s easy to start believing it. It certainly helps to ground yourself and be able to say, “Hey, that’s not reality...there’s this whole group of people who don’t share that opinion at all.”  I will also say that when I first got my part time job, which didn’t interfere with anything (I worked while the kids were in school and was off before they got home), I told him about it, all excited, and he just lost it. He raged and raged at me (in the car again). Looking back now, I see that this stems from a fear that I could leave him if I had the power the extra income could bring. Now, when he’s not raging and he’s in the idealization phase, he brags about me and my career. But hang in there and go easy on yourself—you are exactly where I was ten years ago. I felt so powerless. I still do feel that way, although I’m not really powerless anymore, so was I ever? The kids were affected, to be sure, but over all, I think they’re doing fine and I’m constantly amazed that they are so well-adapted. Also, as they’ve gotten older, he has reached out to them to apologize for things he’s done that keep him awake at night (although it’s still not enough to stop him from behaving as he did most recently).

Anyway, I’m doing okay for now, in part because he’s not raging anymore. I still slept on the couch last night (truthfully, I feel my own anger and hurt and don’t want to be near him), but when I got up to get my morning coffee, he called to me and talked to me and acted as if nothing had happened. Anyone have any insight to this? And I’m still too scared to have a conversation about it because it was so horrible, I don’t want to go down that road again for a long time.

Anyway, thanks, all. I appreciate it.

[Brooklyn1974]

Hi Kristacat,

Anyway, I’m doing okay for now, in part because he’s not raging anymore. I still slept on the couch last night (truthfully, I feel my own anger and hurt and don’t want to be near him), but when I got up to get my morning coffee, he called to me and talked to me and acted as if nothing had happened. Anyone have any insight to this?

Next month I will be married 16 years to my BPD wife (she left me and our 12 yr old daughter last month) and this is exactly what she does.  I remember the one time she was drunk with her dad, drove him somewhere and was too drunk to go anymore.  My dad got her and drove her home.  I couldn't deal with her so I came home late.  Found her naked on our bed not making sense.  My german shepherd was laid down next to her, worried.  She ended up vomiting all over him so at 3am I am giving him a bath.  She woke up the next morning and like him, acted like nothing happened.  This is one story of many.  I don't think they could handle the shame so perhaps they just write it off in their head?  I don't know. 

It's disheartening because it doesn't seem like they take responsibility for anything and at least with my recent events my daughter is suffering greatly.  Such as last night she promised my daughter she would come over to the house to spend time with her, she never showed.  Didn't call until midnight without even an apology.

[RolandOfEld]

but when I got up to get my morning coffee, he called to me and talked to me and acted as if nothing had happened. Anyone have any insight to this? And I’m still too scared to have a conversation about it because it was so horrible, I don’t want to go down that road again for a long time.

Hi Kristacat91, I have to agree with Brooklyn1974 here. What I came to believe after many years of watching my BPDw shrug off incredible acts of abuse was that her mind actually buries her memories or changes them to protect her intensely fragile sense of self. I could see it in her eyes that she almost didn't remember what I was talking about. Its this inability to process shame and take accountability for mistakes that impair pwBPD the most in terms of functioning in relationships. Its very sad.

I also found your sharing about your kids to be encouraging, thank you! You must have done a really amazing job.

Its so great to hear you have a supportive and validating work environment. Please don't give up on finding a therapist! Having a coach in your life is so essential to making change: they can help you to set strategy and rally your resources. It's like dating to find the right one. I would suggest being frank about the BPD right away as a litmus test to see if they might be a good fit.  

Besides your colleagues and a therapist, is there anyone else you are considering opening up to and recruiting to your team? A friend or family member, or members of your religious community if you have one?

~ROE

[BDR]

Yet another conversation where I feel like someone has stepped into my life.  I thank you for being so open.  I often wondered if my BDP wife actually had forgotten that just 3 weeks ago  I had just chased someone out of my  bedroom window when I came home from work early. To her it seemed like it happened years ago and was no big deal.

[Kristacat91]

Thanks for the additional kind words.

I have still really dragged my feet on calling the therapist I found, but I am calling her today (on my to-do list, highlighted, in bold...). I am very distrustful of therapists and I really need to get over that.

Yes, I agree, Brooklyn1974–I can only think that he feels shame and can’t face the infidelity, even though he has twice left the house this week for several hours to “go out to lunch” (but didn’t spend money out of our accounts).  I think I have forced him to sort of deal with it, but not to a good end. I almost wish I’d kept my knowledge of his infidelity to myself for now because it’s created this huge gap for us. Before, it was just the raging, but now he knows that I’m also devastated about the infidelity. But he also can’t seem to stop. I have no idea where this will go because I’m pretty sure that’s going to be a boundary for me. But one step at a time.

All was going better (other than the leaving the house for mysterious “lunches” for several hours—I would think things were going well and then he’d do that and I’d feel so sad and angry, which showed in my demeanor and then he’d get bristly again), but then the sleep issue started again.  He often will wake up at 2:30-3:00 am. Or sometimes 4:00 or so (he almost never sleeps later than 4:30) and will turn on the lights in the room and everything. But once in awhile, he will say that I woke him up, moved too much, etc., and he will go into a rage at me over that.  I always find it surreal because I think, “Didn’t you turn on the overhead lights to our bedroom at 3:00 a.m. yesterday? And you are now raging at me for moving too much at 4:30?”  It does no good to point this out to him—he seems to honestly not see the craziness.  Well, this morning, he got all mad and said that I wasn’t allowed to sleep in our room until I saw “a certified sleep therapist” for my “sleep issues.” I tried really hard not to get roped into any kind of fight about that (it’s so ludicrous), but in the wee hours of the morning, I can’t just leave. At any rate, now he’s giving me the silent treatment again.

So...I will call the therapist. Today. Without question.

I’m basically just venting here.

[Brooklyn1974]

Thank you Krista for replying.  I know this is hurtful and it seems like he's put you into a position that you are afraid to address the issues at hand.  I am sure there are better suited people here that can help you on here but I am in the same position as you.  His 'lunches' are very un-nerving for you and sounds like your instinct is telling you he is up to no good.  As per my wife she admitted to me that her ex-bf comes over to her place to 'collect the rent' but it's 'all business'.  My instinct is telling me she is up to something.

IMO it's about what you are going to accept.  Could he be projecting onto you?  My wife is to me.  She actually told me yesterday she wants a break in the marriage but still be at the house and focus on that, the dogs and our daughter yet she was two hours late to see my daughter last night without answering my daughter while she was calling.  She doesn't see anything wrong in that.

I know it's frustrating, hurtful, confusing and I don't know about you but even knowing about this illness I still ask myself 'Why?'

Have you read up on limits?  Limits are there not for them but for you.  Limits are basically what you consider what is acceptable and what's not.  You need to first decide when you are ready to place limits and what limits are important to you, then impose them and stick to them.  From what I read BPDs will regress when faced these limits but it's important for you so that this crazy behavior stops.  If you have proof that he cheated is that enough for you to leave?  If not, why not?  Remember you are just as important as he is.  I'm starting to realize in my situation that I have lost my own self-worth due to what she's said and done.

You are not alone Krista, we know the pain you are going through.

[Kristacat91]

Thank you so much for your reply. Yes, I’ve been reading on limits and this is indeed my problem and the reason  I feel I really need a therapist, despite my aversion to finding one. I can’t do this by myself. I think it’s just been years of accepting egregious behavior, I have absolutely lost my sense of boundaries. And yes, I feel that obviously, there are many behaviors I can no longer put up with—raging at me, especially in a confined space where I can’t escape, the infidelity, the hiding money from me, etc—any one of those things would immediately be a boundary for any normal person, yet I just keep going on.

And yes, I’ve asked myself why. I think I didn’t fully realize the extent of the infidelity until recently and I’ve sort of stuck my head in the sand. I used to drink every night, which I know was a way to self-medicate and allow myself to forget, but I quit drinking over a year ago and over time, I’ve developed a lot more clarity in my thinking. It’s been slow, but I’ve made progress. Still...why haven’t I drawn this boundary?

I did confront him a few weeks ago and let him know I KNEW about it, and I guess I was hoping it would stop, if he knew how much it hurt me. And while I don’t have proof he has been doing it again in the last few weeks, I do have proof he’s done it in the past.

On the one occasion in the past; a couple of years ago,  where I was at a conference and at 1:00 am, I received a call from our daughter who said he hadn’t come home yet or called, so she was worried about him (this is after I spent a lot of time and effort making sure the kids never did that, even when they were going through their “I’m an adult, I can do what I want!” phase). I called him and he didn’t answer. Then he answered on the second call and I heard his voice echo as if he were in a hotel bathroom or something. He said he had been drinking and didn’t want to drive home in the rain. I told him he should have set a good example and called the kids because they were worried. Then I hung up. When I got back a day later, he was romantic and super nice, but I ended up crying about the whole thing, sobbing about how he didn’t love me because he hadn’t come home...the next week, he told me he was going to stop drinking because he never wanted to put me through that pain again and drinking put him in a bad position and he didn’t want to hurt me. I was really encouraged by this, but it didn’t last. The point here is that he is capable of feeling (sometimes) remorse. But it’s like he can’t stop and he feels too ashamed to face it and change. Or as if he’ feels it futile. And some of the things he’s said seem to indicate that because I “made the kids hate him,” it’s sort of my fault. He didn’t say it exactly like that, but he implied it. As is typical, he blames me for everything wrong in his life, so he also likely blames me for this, too.

I know this is up to me to set boundaries and I’ve told myself that I can take it as slowly as I need to. It’s been over 25 years of marriage and I don’t need to rush into anything without emotional support and knowing what I’m doing. Because it’s just very scary. And I’m constantly ashamed at what I put up with and that’s on me. That’s in my control. I logically know that. I even have little chats with myself and tick off the logical points: you have your own income, you are extremely competent, no one would ever believe your private life and how you allow yourself to be treated, you are logically intelligent...so WHY? I don’t know. Fear maybe. Also, I really really think we have a lot to lose—we have a great life otherwise. And a part of me just hopes he’s not going to force my hand in the end because he can’t or won’t stop this behavior, even after I draw the boundaries. And that makes me incredibly sad. I may be in some grieving phase now, I don’t know.

Thanks for “listening” and your advice. It really does help.

[gleglo2000]

Dear Kristacat91, your story is very powerful and you must be a strong woman. I can only admire how thoughtfully you approach the issue of setting boundaries. I unfortunately started my journey with setting boundaries, not knowing that my dear wife was a pwBPD. So I learned the hard way that doing this, while absolutely necessary, requires a deep thought. The book "Boundaries" by Henry Cloud was my start, not entirely adapted to pwBPD, and I hit the wall quickly.

The things that I did learn over the last year about setting boundaries with my BPw are: (i) if a behaviour is clearly egregious (like name calling (in front of kids) or physically attacking the kids), I immediately very clearly describe the behaviour as inadmissible, if necessary stop the behaviour, no hesitation, no space for doubt. In most cases she apologises rather quickly. (ii) If I need to distance myself (which I often had to, but now that we are separated, it happens less), I emphasise how I will be happy to come back. (iii) Before setting boundaries, I should have explored other areas of our relationship, such as her emotional relationship traumas (such as me disclosing her stay at rehab to my friends), my insensitive behaviour (e.g. raising issues with her parenting when it could do only harm), her burden with the kids. Setting boundaries first (after a drinking summer season she had) did certainly contribute to our current separation.

Well, I hope that this helps a bit. Good luck, however you decide to move forward. What I do not know yet (and I need to find out) is how to deal with the subtler issues, such as the infidelity.

[Brooklyn1974]

Hi Krista..

  I hope you are doing well today.  I can totally understand and relate to what you are experiencing.  I also can understand when you say 'life is still good with him' even though there has been so much drama and heartache.  You sound like me, a giver.  What I had to realize that I am co-dependent on her.  Over the years she became a daughter to me in a sense because I was the one always 'fixing' her issues and trying to 'teach' her right from wrong.  I was slowly guided into that role by her and the things she has done. 

  She has a drinking problem like he does as well and I can say this from experience, that during these moments they will tell you anything they think you want to hear.  She actually admitted that and when asking her why, her response was 'To save you from the pain'.  I would much rather know the truth then live a lie. 

  Are you afraid he would leave if you set and enforce boundaries?  Are you afraid to be alone?  Are you afraid what he might do when he is just living by himself?  BPDs and Co-dependents feed off each other and not in a good way.  In other words if you keep doing the same thing over and over, you can't expect different results.  If you do, you will drive yourself crazy.

  From your posts you have such a beautiful heart and have endured a lot of pain.  Sounds like you and I are living a similar life.  Is the fear of the unknown too much for you to deal with?  Have you in a sense become comfortable and expect this behavior from him?  I know they are tough questions to answer even with someone who has a good head on their shoulders like you.  Have you read up on the JADE and SET?  Have you read up on limits?  The limits are not for him, they are for you.  They are there to protect you to stop this awful behavior of his.