She won't give me space

[delia211]

Hoping you are all hanging in there.  I just wanted to know if any of you who are estranged from a BPD relative have any advice on this.

Unfortunately it came to a point about a year ago where I felt I had to go no contact with my BPD mom.  It really was a last resort for me and hurt me to do it but her behavior became so extreme and relentless that I needed to take a break from her for the sake of my own mental health and my marriage.  At the time, I stated in very clear terms to her that I was unable to have a relationship with her at this point and did not want to be contacted.  I hope this can change one day, but I am in counseling now and my therapist feels that I am not ready to reintroduce her into my life because I need to first work on the PTSD and self-image issues my relationship with her has caused me (and I probably can only expect more destructive behavior from her in the future).

Nonetheless, and no matter how much time goes by, my mother never stops sending me an array of messages (to which I never respond).  Of course, none of them include apologies or any acknowledgment of accountability (though some do mention that I owe her an apology...).  Overall, even the kinder ones are upsetting to me because I find them all to be attempts to manipulate me into allowing her back into my life to continue her same terrible behavior and a refusal to respect the space I've asked for.  I do not want to keep allowing her to upset me when I am trying to work on myself and heal from the past, and I think asking her again to stop contacting me will have no effect.  I've considered blocking her, but I worry about the messages I could be missing if so (such as an actual emergency, or a genuine miracle of her ever telling me she's sorry). 

I am wondering if any of you have gone through this and if so how you handled it.  Thanks very much

[Methuen]

Nonetheless, and no matter how much time goes by, my mother never stops sending me an array of messages

If these messages cross the boundary you set of asking her to respect your need for privacy (aka no contact), but she keeps sending them anyways, can you change your settings so that her emails go directly to junk mail, and/or block her from your text messages?  After all, you did set a boundary...  This way you would never see them, and they couldn't cause you distress. And you can feel good about yourself for holding your boundary.

I've considered blocking her, but I worry about the messages I could be missing if so (such as an actual emergency, or a genuine miracle of her ever telling me she's sorry).

If an actual emergency happened, the health care services or police would contact you, right?  As for hoping for a genuine miracle, I started to heal myself when I let go of that dream.  Maybe for you, it's different, but accepting my mom's illness and what that meant for our relationship, was the beginning of my journey for recovery.  Today, I still have a relationship with my mom, but it's different than I expected it would be.  Remember that n/c doesn't have to be forever.  It's just temporary, until you are feeling better.  You've already told her that.  Your therapist has made suggestions, so what do you think is the best way to move forward with your healing (based on your history), and your own personal values?

I have only had short term periods of n/c with my mom.  I am an only child, I live in the same town as her, and she is 84 and very frail with complicated physical problems in addition to the mental issues caused by trauma from her FOO.  My short -term periods of NC were for my own mental health, as you mentioned your NC was as well.  In my situation, long term estrangement wasn't something I wanted.  But I did learn to set boundaries, and stick to them.  Learning boundaries is a process, and we don't always get it right the first time.  But if we stick with them, boundaries do work.  Others on this forum have situations where permanent NC is the best option.  Every situation is unique, and deserves its own unique response.
 

[Choosinghope]

Hi delia211

I am wondering if any of you have gone through this and if so how you handled it.

I have experienced NC with my mom, though my mom reacted a bit differently than yours. When I told her that I needed to step away for my own healing, she fired back that my H has brainwashed me and that I'm basically choosing to go down a bad path. Ok, she can believe what she wants. She seemingly respected that, leaving dead silence between us for months, which really surprised me. I thought she would do what your mom is doing. 9 months later, I am piecing together what she was doing behind the scenes to destroy my reputation, and I realize that silence wasn't the blessing I thought it was.

I still have so much to learn in how I respond to my mom, and I know that I made a lot of mistakes over the last year. But, here are just a couple things I learned. First, the times that I reached out, usually just to say "I love you," or a text to acknowledge a holiday, seemed to be an opening for her to lash out again. My mother's day text to her earned me some pretty nasty messages in response. When I called to see if I could just do small talk and put differences behind us, it was the opening for her to talk about how I've hurt her and pushed her away. So what I've taken from this is that no communication really does have to mean no communication. You're doing great in not responding to her. I wish I had learned that sooner.

The other part I learned is that we are hyper-connected as modern Americans. I was also worried about blocking my mom's number, blocking her on FB, and so forth, thinking that I might miss out on something. What if she tries to call and make things right? What if my dad's in the hospital? Then I finally realized a couple things. Even if she were to call to make things right (which she won't), I don't want to take that call. Even if it's a loving text today, it will be something really nasty next time. If my dad's in the hospital, my sisters all have my phone number, and they all have my H's phone number. Me blocking one person's number is not going to completely cut me off from something big or important in life.

Here's my advice. Block your mom's number. Block her on social media. You set a boundary that she is not respecting, and it is continuing to hurt you. If something happens like an emergency, like Methuen said, someone will contact you. The other thing that you can do is use your resources. If your mom has a partner, or you have any siblings close to your mom, or an aunt or uncle or even a friend of you mom's that you feel you can trust, let that person know in confidence that you have blocked the number. Ask them to reach out to you if there is a true emergency or situation that you can know about. If you have that kind of person in your life, then you can rest easy knowing that you will not be getting any more ugly messages but that you won't miss out on anything big.

[delia211]

Sincere thanks to you both for your thoughtful responses.  I think you are both right that I need to block her.

Methuen, what you say about your healing from letting go of hope for an apology really resonates with me.  I think that's been the hardest part for me to accept because I spent all of my childhood hoping that one day she would express remorse for all she put me through.  But it certainly cannot be healthy to hold out hope for something that cannot happen, which I do recognize on a rational level.  I think you are right about needing to put my healing first, which I haven't done before.

Choosinghope, what you say about not even wanting to take an apology call is also incredibly insightful and helpful.  It is absolutely true that that call would be followed by a hateful one, likely sooner than later, which would render it meaningless.

I too tried to wish her well on a special occasion and learned the same thing-- she saw it as an opening, and I regretted it.

I am wondering how you handled your mother damaging your reputation.  My mother has been bad-mouthing me to my in-laws, among others.  I struggle with how to explain the situation to my in-laws without sounding like I am bad-mouthing my mother or otherwise being a disrespectful daughter.  They are a close-knit family so they don't really get it.

As for family members who could notify me of an emergency, that's tough.  I have an enmeshed/brainwashed sibling who lives with my mother who she has mostly turned against me (in retaliation for distancing myself from her).  I hope my sibling would reach out to me but I'm not sure.  No one else is really in contact with her-- she has burned bridges with the rest of her own family and my father left a few years ago after reaching a breaking point with her physical, verbal, and psychological abuse.  Hopefully I would be contacted by emergency services like you say, Methuen.  I suppose I cannot allow this possibility to get in the way of the need to heal and set necessary boundaries.  

[Methuen]

My mother has been bad-mouthing me to my in-laws, among others.  I struggle with how to explain the situation to my in-laws without sounding like I am bad-mouthing my mother or otherwise being a disrespectful daughter.

The first sentence is interesting.  What would be her motivation of bad-mouthing you to the in-laws?  I'm thinking about this from the point of view of abandonment (BPD trait), and wondering if she could be targeting your in-laws because your marriage took you away from her? My mom actually told me in a rage about 5 years ago (I'm 58) that I was never the same with her after I got married.  Say what? At the time I thought that was pretty wierd, and just kind of "filed" it.  A few years later, after becoming informed about BPD, I can see that BPD's struggle with abandonment after we get married because all of a sudden our spouse is the center of our universe, and not the pwBPD.  Weddings are often a huge trigger for pwBPD.  So if she's targeting your in-laws, I'm wondering if it could be a really messed up way of splitting you and them, to make you more available for her...? Nothing rational about it I know, but when it comes to abandonment and BPD, it's a pretty upside down illness.  Does this make any sense or resonate?

I'm wondering how you have come to know she is "bad mouthing" you to the in-laws?    Do they or H share with you stuff she says?  If so, could it be that they see that's kind of an abnormal thing for a mother to do?  I mean really, from a "non's" point of view, hearing a mother bad mouth her daughter to the in-laws would seem kind of wierd...what mother does that, right?  Do you think they might actually believe anything she tells them?  Or do they know you well enough to see the inconsistency between what she tells them, and what they see and hear with their own eyes and ears?  Where is your H in all this?  What does he think and say?  Are the in-laws kind of "writing her off" as a bit flaky, or is she having success at causing drama with your marriage and in-laws?  Instead of "explaining" anything, you could stick with a general statement such as "your mom is a complicated person, and you are really happy in your marriage, and with your new in-law family."  That way you are consistent with your value of not saying anything negative about your mom, but you are also addressing your desire to explain the situation.  Occasionally less is more.  How long have you been married?

[Choosinghope]

My mom thankfully hasn't tried anything with my in-laws, but she has been spreading things to my sisters, aunts, uncles, cousins, old family friends, and various people in my home town. It's taken me awhile, but I've slowly been hearing from people what she is saying. My first reaction was anger and outrage, and an intense desire to pick up the phone and lay into her for ruining both my and my H's reputations. Then, I remembered what I've learned and realized it would only make things worse. I've thought about calling a few aunts and cousins and family friends that I was closer to and trying to explain things. But that would only make it into a me vs. her situation, which I don't want. What I've settled on is that the truth will win out. People aren't dumb, and eventually they will see that what my mom says doesn't match what they see from me. And if they never get to that point, then they are people that I am willing to let go from my life.

With your in-laws, I second what Methuen said. Less can definitely be more. And also realize that people are usually pretty intelligent. If your mom is telling them things that clearly aren't true, then eventually she will lose credibility. A simple way to explain things is, "My mom and I see the world very differently sometimes, and I don't always understand how she sees it. I'm very happy with where I am, and I hope that someday she can see that. Until then, I'm choosing to love her the best that I can."

[delia211]

Methuen, I think your instinct on her motivation for bad-mouthing me to my in-laws in spot on.  I am sorry you have struggled with the same issue with regard to your mother feeling threatened by your marriage.  My mother has never handled well any growth milestone I have made that involved spending less time with her, even if it was necessary for my becoming an autonomous adult.  For example, the night before I left to go away to college, she approached me when I was packing and informed me out of the blue that I had been a crappy child (in more vulgar language actually).  She still has never congratulated me in any way for getting into the school or getting a degree from there, and instead just guilted me the whole time for leaving her.  You are right too about weddings being a trigger.  My mom acted so badly at my wedding that I actually found some of the wedding vendors gossiping about how terrible the mother of the bride was...  The sad part was, I had thought she was being pretty good for her (in light of the range of behavior that I am accustomed to!).

I have only been married about a year so unfortunately my in-laws do not know me as well as I wish they did (not being able to get together as much due to COVID doesn't help).  I mostly hear about what she is doing from my H (they tell him), but when I told my MIL I was having difficulties with my mom and wasn't going to be in touch with her for the time being, she told me that my mother had been bad-mouthing me to her in the months leading up to my wedding, which she thought was shocking and made her very uncomfortable.  My in-laws are aware that she has some issues but definitely do not understand the extent of it.   They definitely also ascribe to traditionalist beliefs that one should honor their mother no matter what.  I don't know if they believe any part of what she is saying but I suspect they have, especially since they've only been getting her side of things.  Like you both say, they are intelligent and I hope that in time the truth will become clearer to them as they get to know me better.  I think I am feeling particularly sensitive about this behavior because her negative interference has led to the failure some of my past romantic relationships.

My H feels like he is in a bit of a tough position.  He feels like he should not speak to my mother either to support me (I have not required this), but he is concerned about turning my mother's ire against him, especially if I decide in the future to make her a part of our lives again.  He also struggles with what to tell his family members without sounding like he is bad-mouthing my mother either (he has tried at points, only to be told he needs to be respectful to his MIL).

Choosinghope, I think you are taking the right approach to your mother's bad-mouthing you and your H.  I appreciate both of your advice regarding the general statements to make to my in-laws, I think you are right.  That way, even if they have doubts about the person I may be, they will at least know I am not one to verbally trash anyone in my family, and hopefully the bigger picture will come to light in time!  Taking the high road can be hard, especially when it seems other people can't see it, but I think ultimately it's necessary to be the people that we want to be.

[Methuen]

Taking the high road can be hard, especially when it seems other people can't see it, but I think ultimately it's necessary to be the people that we want to be.

  Delia, you've got this.

They definitely also ascribe to traditionalist beliefs that one should honor their mother no matter what.

Ick.  This is hard.  I got this from someone close to me once too.  I know the kind of person he is (who said it to me), and I know he is a really good person.  What the "honour thy mother" comment told me was that he had not walked a mile in my moccasins, and did not understand the dynamic at all, because I also happen to know he would not endorse any form of abuse.  I didn't really put too much weight on his opinion.  The way I see it, until someone has lived the same experience we have, their advice isn't really "informed" or helpful.  So I don't put much weight on it. 

[zachira]

I am sorry you are experiencing a smear campaign by your BPD mother. I have been smeared by disordered relatives my whole life. In my experience, it is important to know who would be receptive to hearing the truth. You do have to say something, otherwise what your mother says about you just becomes more believable. When you defend yourself, keep it brief, and if you can, to one sentence, so you will more likely be heard by whoever you choose to share with. It is important to not be silent about abuse with the right people and in the right place.
My heart hurts knowing how frustrating and sad it is to be given dirty looks and accused of things you never did. What do you think?