Recent Estrangement From My BPD Daughter

[Parents! Get help here!]

either way, really, id see that my daughter is tentatively opening the lines of communication, and id run with it.

 

Yes...double yes!

You could put together a couple drafts and post them here...we could coach you.

My recommendation is welcome back with open arms, make sure she knows the door is open to listening and understanding.

This is a good thing that she has reached out.

Best,

FF

[formflier]

either way, really, id see that my daughter is tentatively opening the lines of communication, and id run with it.

 

Yes...double yes!

You could put together a couple drafts and post them here...we could coach you.

My recommendation is welcome back with open arms, make sure she knows the door is open to listening and understanding.

This is a good thing that she has reached out.

Best,

FF

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[msleah]

Form Flier and Once Removed:

Thanks so much for responding so speedily. Here is what I have thus far:

"Dear H:
I was quite happy to hear from you yesterday. I would have responded sooner, but the last 24 hours have been hectic.

R has had to revert to chemotherapy, but he’s doing his best to stay on top of it. I have been so impressed by the fortitude he has shown throughout this ordeal. We are still walking almost every day, and last week we went to the Grand Canyon. I’m attaching a photo of him standing at the South Rim.

The weather is finally starting to cool off, after the hottest, driest summer in Arizona state history. Figures we would move here right before that milestone. I guess we just got lucky.

I understand that I have not always listened to you, and I am deeply sorry for that. If there is something –anything—that you want to discuss, I am willing to listen.

Love, Mom"

Let me know what you think, please. I appreciate everyone's feedback more than I can say.

[formflier]

Form Flier and Once Removed:

Thanks so much for responding so speedily. Here is what I have thus far:

"Dear H:
I was quite happy to hear from you yesterday. I would have responded sooner, but the last 24 hours have been hectic.

R has had to revert to chemotherapy, but he’s doing his best to stay on top of it. I have been so impressed by the fortitude he has shown throughout this ordeal. We are still walking almost every day, and last week we went to the Grand Canyon. I’m attaching a photo of him standing at the South Rim.

The weather is finally starting to cool off, after the hottest, driest summer in Arizona state history. Figures we would move here right before that milestone. I guess we just got lucky.

I understand that I have not always listened to you, and I am deeply sorry for that. If there is something –anything—that you want to discuss, I am willing to listen.

Love, Mom"

Let me know what you think, please. I appreciate everyone's feedback more than I can say.

Read it a couple of times as you wrote it.

Then a couple times with these deletions. 

Do they "feel different" to you?

Best,

FF

[Lollypop]

Hi

Dear H:
I was quite happy to hear from you yesterday.

I was so happy to hear from you yesterday.

It felt so good to hear from you yesterday.

I’m in the U.K. and “quite” can be taken as a negative...meaning “a little bit” or “acceptable”.  Not sure in the US?  but thought I’d throw this in here as I understand just how important this is.

LP

[msleah]

Form Flier and Lollypop:

Thanks so much! I revised the letter a bit, utilizing some of your suggestions. I also belong to an online reconnection group, one which specializes in giving parents tools to re-establish contact with estranged children. They are all about apologies, and the moderator felt that part of the letter was essential. In fact, she thought I should make the apology a bit stronger and put it at the beginning of the letter instead of at the end. I know that's different from formflier's suggestion, but, after thinking long and hard about it, I decided to go with the reconnection club's suggestion. So I came up with this, and figured I'd better send it before too much time elapses. I emailed it this morning.

Dear H:

I was so happy to hear from you yesterday.

I understand that I have not always listened to you, and I am deeply sorry for that. If there is something –anything—that you want to discuss, I am more than willing to listen.

R has had to revert to chemotherapy, but he’s doing his best to stay on top of it. I have been  impressed by the fortitude he has shown throughout this ordeal. We are still walking almost every day, and last week we went to the Grand Canyon.
I’m attaching a photo of him standing at the South Rim.

The weather is finally starting to cool off, after the hottest, driest summer in Arizona state history. Figures we would move here right before that milestone. I guess we just got lucky.

I hope to hear from you again soon.

Love, Mom

[formflier]

Please don't take any of this as "criticism" of your letter.

At the end of the day we are all test pilots figuring out these BPDish relationships.

BPD is a rather unique thing to deal with an apologies by "nons" are often over done...WAAAY over done.

Especially apologizing for someone else's perception of your own actions.

Usually it's much better to focus on listening or understanding than apologizing (but...each relationship is unique).

So...we'll see how this goes.

Best,

FF

[kells76]

Hello msleah and swimmy55, kells76 here from the family law board. Thanks for letting me read and learn from these threads.

I imagine these demonstrations make it possible for her to focus on external chaos as a way to avoid her own internal demons. That makes total sense to me. A sense of mission to transcend some of her pain.

I read both your comments on your kids being drawn to mass movements. Not sure how much free time either of you have, but have you read the book "The True Believer: Thoughts on the Nature of Mass Movements" by Eric Hofer? It's not a long read, and he's a very clear writer. He gets right to the core of the personality type who is drawn to things like Portland and Baltimore. Basically, he asserts that when one feels that one's life is ruined, spoiled, a wreck, then one wants to lose oneself and be rid of the "bad" life and be immersed into something bigger, where one doesn't have to take personal responsibility for how things go. A great read and very timely. It might also give you some new insights into your children, what motivates them, and how they're thinking.

Msleah, I hope your husband is doing well.

Cheers;

kells76

[msleah]

Formflier:

Yeah, I do see your point. However...my daughter has said several times that I never apologize, and that I never consider how much I have hurt her.

I'm inclined to disagree, at least somewhat. Of course, I do think (all the time) about the harm I might have caused her when she was growing up, however inadvertently. She has no way of knowing this, unless I tell her.

My apologies, at least in recent years, have been infrequent. At best, they've been lukewarm, and at worst, defensive and conditional. So I do feel as though I owe her a heartfelt apology.

It's hard for me to accept that I might have said and/or done things that deeply upset her, but she's not going to tell me what they are unless I show remorse.

It's a bitter pill to swallow, of course...

[msleah]

kells76:

Thanks so much for your input. I am familiar with the Eric Hoffer book, and read it when I was still in high school. That was...well, a while ago. I only remember the principle of the book--which, as you mentioned, is that people are drawn to radical groups to compensate for what they are missing internally. I will seek it out and read it again.

I've been politically active on one level or another for much of my life, so I'm not upset by my daughter's concern for society's welfare. My issue was the way she chose to express it. I know her well enough to understand that she is a follower, not a leader. She, as well as most of the people in that group, was standing on the sidelines, offering solidarity while a few others lit a series of fires at a police station. This is why she was released without further repercussions, and her charges were dropped. The people who set the fires and/or actively resisted arrest had charges pressed against them.

Ironically, the group turned their attention to helping firefighters a couple of weeks later as fires raged through Oregon and the west coast--bringing the crew food, fundraising on their behalf, etc. Now she's involved in creating murals throughout Portland--legal ones, sanctioned by local authorities. It's rather difficult to figure out where she's coming from, but at least she's not getting herself arrested.

My daughter is always a champion for the underdog, which is why she can't relate to me as much. I'm drawn to underdogs, too, but I have a strong personality and don't come across as a victim. In her world, there are only victims and bullies. It's all part of that black and white BPD thinking.

I hope we can find some common ground now that we're communicating again.

[Lollypop]

Hi msleah

My apologies, at least in recent years, have been infrequent. At best, they've been lukewarm, and at worst, defensive and conditional. So I do feel as though I owe her a heartfelt apology.

I totally understand this. Our son opened up (he’s a quiet bpd and internalises) and told us that he needed to show his rage (in words) against me and for me (us) to apologise. It was a bitter pill.

We gave what we felt was a heartfelt apology but he kept stuck in the past. We kept focussed on the need to move forwards but I knew when he agreed that he felt pressured to agree. I’ve since reached out to him to say I’m ready for a deeper and more meaningful relationship and he still doesn’t appear to be able to, despite him initially saying that’s what he wanted.

I’m not sorry that we apologised. However, it doesn’t appear to have changed things much for him. We are ready,  but we accept that he’s not. He’s just getting on with his life and I guess, we have to learn that standing alongside him might actually mean very little communication between us. I’m sharing this because I thought you’d be interested. Events might not turn out how we expect or how we want them - there’s no reasoning with bpd.

I thought your letter was extremely good. I’d love to know when/if you get a reply.

Good luck

LP

[formflier]

It's hard for me to accept that I might have said and/or done things that deeply upset her, but she's not going to tell me what they are unless I show remorse.

 

One of the issues with BPD is "rapidly changing feelings" and or "feelings that are not stable".

Most pwBPD are not able to accept that their own actions have anything to do with this, so they use "feelings equals facts" to figure out that someone else (in this case you) are responsible for the horrible feelings that they feel (that feel 100% real to them and accurate).

Now...if they have and are having at the moment you apologize, a bad feeling for what you are apologizing for, then perhaps the apology can do some good...perhaps.

But what if..what if your pwBPD is sitting around brooding that "Mom does A to me...it's all Mom's fault." and then you reach out and apologize to her for doing B to her?  Does that help or hurt.

Even more confusing...perhaps yesterday she was saying that Mom did B, you thought about it and realize you do it and want to make it right, yet today it's not about B..it's about A.

I'm sure you are aware this tortuous cycle can go on and on.


For now let's wait and see if the responds to this apology. 

From where I sit the most important thing you said in the letter is that you are open to listening.

Best,

FF

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Peppery]

I'm feeling a good deal of despair because my 24 year old daughter has decided to cut my husband and me out of her life. She has BPD and has decided recently that I am to blame for it. Actually, she most likely has felt that way for a while but never articulated it so plainly before. I've never understood why, because, though I am far from a perfect parent, I never thought of myself as abusive. I've had my moments of anger, but I never hit my daughter (or my son, with whom I get along fine) and I was usually careful about my words, as well.

Her father and I split up a long time ago. He dislikes me intensely and has made this clear to my daughter for years. He's a recovering alcoholic and an extremely angry person. I've tried to make peace with him over the years, but he refuses to talk to me. I can't help but feel that he shares at least some of the blame for our daughter's problems.

My current husband and I have been together 18 years. He basically raised our daughter. He is a good and loving man, and she has no issues with him. Still, she cut him off as well. Collateral damage, I guess, since he's married to me. It's awful, because he has stage 4 cancer, and she knows how ill he is. Though he's doing surprisingly well, his time on earth is uncertain.

Why do BPD people seem so damn self-centered? I feel as though my daughter chose the worst possible time to make her exit. My husband and I recently moved 1500 miles away to a warmer climate, and the estrangement began a couple of months later. I'm afraid we might never see or speak to her again. She has blocked us on social media. We have both sent regular emails that have gone unanswered. It's like a living hell for us.

Hi there..I'm a newbie, too and learning to navigate so bear with me!

I can hear your pain and torment and can certainly understand your bewilderment. I suffer from BPD as does my 20 year old son...so I have perspective from both sides.

I have done what your daughter has.  It's not that I don't love my family, it's more that I don't like myself when I'm around them.  I know that BPD has genetic, as well as, environmental components. So, while I don't completely pin my diagnosis on family, I see, now, how they are part of the equation. They are unwilling to see their role and that's fine. I'm not "blaming them" -  but instead, setting the record straight.

And I guess, setting the record straight includes letting them know that I didn't wake up one day and just decide to be an unhappy, chaotic, narcissistic manipulator. My symptoms started around age 4. I was labeled, given the scapegoat role within the family, invalidated, minimized and accused of manipulative dramatics...all of which exacerbated my condition even more.

I wasn't diagnosed until I was 49.  Hallelujah! Not only did I learn there were others like me, but, the blame was lifted from my shoulders and I was given a rational explanation as to why my brain works in such a dysfunctional manner. The therapist didn't "blame" my family or suggest I cut them off. But, after a while, I realized I much more comfortable and happy without them.  Also, being with them was such a reminder of previous emotional explosions I had forced them to endure. It was hard for me to come to terms with all the pain and agony I had caused. I am ashamed and embarrassed. I'm in recovery, now, but I'm not sure if I'll ever be able to face them again.

My son blames me for his BPD - and I agree with him.  I did lots of things wrong and I certainly provided the genetic predisposition. Even so, sometimes I want to bow up and remind him of his father's shortcomings and contributions - but I don't.  I know the amount of pain he is in - having suffered from BPD, myself - so I, consciously, lose the defensive attitude because I know it is harmful to him in his current mind set...even if I feel he is wrong.

His perception is my reality. Fair? Not so much. But, for now, I'm willing to take the blame in hopes one day he will be in remission, too.

Good luck and hang in there!

[msleah]

Lollypop:

It's only been a couple of days since I sent the email (well, almost 3) but I have not yet received a reply.

I think I might have floored my daughter by not responding defensively to her email. Deep down, I think she expected -- maybe even wanted -- an argumentative reply. Which is funny, since she is the one who reached out and said she wanted to resume communication in the first place.

Her email is filled with ambivalence -- she wanted to reconnect because she feels so bad about my husband's illness, she's still angry with me, she wants to air specific grievances, but then again, she doesn't want to air them. I don't know whether she is particularly sure about her reasons for those grievances.

Such is the maelstrom that is BPD. No wonder the rest of us have to walk on eggshells around these folks. I can certainly empathize about your son. It seems that many people with BPD are committed to hanging on to their pain, even when given the opportunity to release a bit of it.

Meanwhile, I am working on cultivating an attitude of calm acceptance about whatever she does end up telling me. We shall see how it goes.

[msleah]

Formflier:

Point taken. Communication with a BPD person is certainly a moving target, huh?

I haven't heard back from her yet. As I mentioned in my above post, I suspect she expected and perhaps (subconsciously) wanted me to argue with her. It's like she keeps wanting me to prove her point that I'm an unreasonable person who doesn't listen or care.

Then again, perhaps she's just busy processing. I will wait and see and not reach out again until I hear from her.

[msleah]

Hi Peppery:

Thanks so much for your input. I suspect BPD runs in my family as well. I'd be willing to bet that my mother had it -- we used to think she was just a drama queen -- and I wonder about myself, as well. At (almost) 62, I've calmed down a lot, but my coping skills were directly impacted by the way I was nurtured (or not nurtured, to be more accurate). As a young adult, I had a lot of the classic symptoms and behaviors, and I wasn't an easy person to love.

Supposedly, BPD does mellow out for a lot of people as they age. I hope you've been able to experience that. I sensed some recrimination in your self-assessment, which seems to be very common in the parents of BPD children (I use the word "children" here to denote offspring, not actual kids). I'm not in the greatest position to give advice, but I would encourage you not to beat yourself up about your son's mental illness. It is so easy to focus on what we did wrong as parents, especially when those flaws are so often what our BPD children choose to focus on. You certainly can't help your genetic predisposition.

I am finding this board to be most helpful. I hope you do, as well. Thanks again.

[formflier]

I suspect she expected and perhaps (subconsciously) wanted me to argue with her.

Consider this...perhaps this is a moving target as well.  Perhaps your goal is to be between where your daughter seems to be a "neutral" or zero.

So...she gives you a "bad" or "push" signal of 4 (on a 1-10 scale) and you reflect back and 1 or 2 push or bad signal.

When she loves the world as is giving your "good" or "pull" of 4 (or more), cut it in half and give it back.

Look another way...when her feelings are good..they are really good and that's the "reality" she wants others to show her.  When they are bad...she wants others to feel and reflect that as well.

Moving target it a good description!


Best,

FF

[Saidbh]

I just want to reach out to you and say please dont blame yourself. What I find very strange is how a disorder like this presents in very similiar behaviours in people with bpd. It shows I think a very strong genetic component. My daughter is in her late 20s and her behaviour sounds very like your daughters. I am not perfect but my daughter grew up in a normal family, there was no abuse. Looking back she was always very sensitive to everything and quick to anger and get irritated. Now that she has read a bit and seen counsellors she has the language to accuse me. She says its all my fault, I am cold and invalidating. She hates her dad and they dont speak so its left to me to try help her. If I mention she needs to get the right kind of help she flies into a rage and says I am the one that needs helo. She is exhausting to talk to because every word I say is analaysed. She threatebs to cut me out of her life. She never apologies but the next day acts as if nothing has happened.

So please take care of yourself and your husband and enjoy your time together. I dont think we caused this bpd nor can we cure it.

[msleah]

Saidbh:

Thanks for sharing your story. There is so much commonality in the behaviors of BPD folks, and the experiences of those who love them.

I can't say that I offered much in the way of normalcy for my daughter, at least during her early years. Her bio-dad and I split up when she was five, and I don't think she ever got over it. He almost died from drinking shortly thereafter. I think she blames me for this, at least subconsciously. I know that her dad (who is sober now, but a classic dry drunk) very consciously blames me for it, so there's that.

My husband (her stepfather) raised her since she was six, and that was a blessing for all of us. He is a kind and responsible man, who freely offered balance to my daughter's life.

She doesn't seem to be angry with her dad (though he's a real piece of work, and has thrown numerous tantrums in response to perceived slights she has supposedly perpetrated against him) or with my husband, only with me. Moms are often held to such a high standard. Of course, this selective anger only increases my feelings of guilt.

I'm working on my emotions with therapy. Also, this group has helped a lot, along with an estranged child forum I belong to online. I have grown so much as a result of these networks.

Thanks again for reaching out. I wish you luck, love, and healing with your own daughter.

[msleah]

Formflier:

Thanks, sounds like a reasonable method. I'm still waiting ever so patiently to hear from her.

It's so weird, because she is the one who reached out to me in the first place.  I think she was expecting me to be defensive and is now completely floored as to how to react. I'm giving her lots of time, which is good because it gives me the chance to pause, reflect, and be more aware of how to react once she does contact me.

[once removed]

I think she was expecting me to be defensive and is now completely floored as to how to react.

this could be.

it could also be that its just not clear what comes next.

it could be that primarily, she just wanted to open the doors, and now thats done, and she feels that its best to tread lightly.

it could be that you took some wind out of her sails. maybe she wanted to let it all hang out, and its hard to do that in response to a disarming note.

it could be that shes writing the mother of all essays to let you have it.

there may be a lot coming, or a sort of anti-climatic slow ice thawing. its hard to say.

regardless, i think you are, and will be in a good position. i think your note was pitch perfect.

[beatricex]

hi msleah,
I did not read the entire thread but sort of jumped from page 1 to 3, so I apologize in advance if I am missing some of your key points.  I have a BPD step-daughter, at least that is what my husband and I have been told is likely by a counselor.  A lot of what you speak of resonates with me.  Our daughter also recently "disowned" us and yes, it is my fault (not her biological Mom's or her Dad's fault), it is all my fault.  I agree that "moms" (even step moms) get disproptionately blamed.

Like others have said, please don't take it personally.  I truly think that they go for the strong ones, because they have to take us down to get to their supply (her Dad). 

Like your situation, my step-daughter has a sibling.  We have no idea if they are speaking (the sister stopped talking to us about the same time, but sans drama - we have reached out to her and she is pretending like nothing happened).  We have oscillated between calling her sister the "flying monkey" and feeling guilty because her sister likely has the same anxiety we do.  It is exasperating feeling like you are going to break an egg every step or two!  Oh crap, there I go, I stepped on an egg and now, it's a million broken shells.

How do I fix this?  Well, I can tell you I'm about 7 months in to the estrangement and I don't feel I have to fix this anymore.  Yes, I made contact initially (she threatened to file a complaint for harassment), by sending her articles about therapy.  yes, I cried, yes I went through bargaining, yes depression and guilt were in there (and I didn't even raise this kid her dad and I met when she was 19, she's 25 now and has two kids of her own).  Yes, my husband and I have fought over it, gone to therapy and now we're at the point of moving on with life.

It helps my Mom is also BPD.  I feel this is just a repeat of my childhood.  Like it's come full circle. 

I'm finding the hardest thing to do is find friends I can talk to about it, when I feel like talking about it of course.  Why I'm here.

Please keep sharing and I thank all for their insights and wisdom on this thread.  I will go back and read all the responses now, but wanted to reach out and let you know that you're not alone.

B

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[beatricex]

OK, I think I'm all caught up.

GoblinMom said:  They have an idiosyncratic moral code ...and are ready to write people off for breaking it.

Boy is this one true!  We call our step-daughter the Moral Police, since she goes to church twice every Sunday to prove what a great Christian she is (rolling my eyes). She also screams at her Dad (and doesn't even speak to her biological Mom) because he was a "horrible parent and it's a wonder she survived childhood!" 

Others have pointed out that your desire to talk to your BPD daughter is temporarily overridden by the desire you have to "not say the wrong thing"  Also, triangulation was brought up.


Here are my thoughts:

Triangulation is a bad thing and I have spent most of my adult life trying to avoid it.  I simply say "I'm not playing this game."   

Our counselor said that chasing a BPD (or their flying monkey sibling/spouse/friend) is like falling into quicksand.  In other words, don't do it.  The harder you try, the more they reject you.

My husband has less desire to talk to his kid than I do.  I think he truly needs a break, and a lot of his anger is actually Guilt.  He feels like he is at fault (at least partially) for her disorder.  A lot of time is spent between him and I reassuring him that he did not create this problem.  He is a good Dad.

What popped into my mind about your situation msleah is this:  are you trying to contact her because you're the Mom and society says you must talk to your daughter...or, do you really wish to speak to her?

Just wondering.  cause I have little desire to speak to my step-daughter who I'm literally afraid of, but I'm not her mom.

Like I said, my husband is not at any point of resuming contact, and I'm ok with it.  She is abusive and manipulative and controlling.  What's the point?

I may change my mind later, but this is where I'm at. 

Something terrifying to me is they mentioned their BPD'd person getting therapy, and it just gave them more ammo because the BPD then knew the "terms" and lingo.  This one actually never occured to me before...oh boy
B

[msleah]

Once Removed:

First of all, thanks for all you do, as administrator of this board. It is one of the most helpful forums I have ever encountered, and has helped me retain at least some of my sanity.

I did hear from my daughter yesterday. As I expected, her email was brief and did not address our issues at all. Her avoidance is somewhat maddening, but I have to meet her where she is right now, rather than the place I want her to be. She sent a photo of herself at a women's march with about four sentences attached, and that was it. She also responded to my husband's recent email with a considerably more friendly tone. In his earlier email, he discussed the progression of his cancer treatment, gently emphasizing how much I help him every day. Needless to say, she didn't address that, either.

Obviously, there's still some triangulation here, but some communication is better than none. Baby steps.

[msleah]

Beatricex:

Thanks for reading and weighing in on this extremely long thread.

My daughter's and my estrangement lasted only four months (though it seemed much longer). She started communicating with my husband (her stepdad) again about a month and a half ago, and finally sent me a brief email two weeks ago, stating that she was still angry but wanted to resume communication for his sake.

Her tone seemed a bit...well, hostile, and still full of triangulation, but I did reach out with an apology, an invitation to talk about her feelings, and a promise that I would listen. She waited about a week and finally sent me a 4-sentence email and photo. She didn't address her emotions at all.

Just because someone suffers from a mental illness doesn't mean they can't be maddeningly manipulative. Sometimes extremely so. I gather from your own comments about your stepdaughter that you most likely know exactly what I mean.

And yes, the idiosyncratic moral code. My daughter is not a Christian, but she has very rigid (though somewhat arbitrary, at least from my perspective) ideas of how people ought to behave. It's all part of that BPD black and white thinking.

Also...yep, the ammo of psychoanalytic terms. I heard a lot of those before my daughter cut off contact. I guess it's a good thing, after all, that she's avoiding arguments with me right now. I am still healing from my own anger and will do whatever is necessary to avoid further disagreements.

Thanks again for your insights.

[beatricex]

msleah,
What kinds of things are you doing for yourself?

My husband and I are going fishing tomorrow, it is Halloween and a "kid" day (we have 4 grandchildren amongst our 2 girls), but we've decided to focus on us.  Something we did a lot when we were first dating was go fishing.  I'm very concerned the toll this is taking on our relationship, and am choosing to focus on us instead of the worrying about things I cannot control (and out of control daughter).

I am even past giving people all the sordid details about how the "fight" and "disowning" went down (at least I hope so).  I find that with either my mom or my step-daughter, focusing on the BPD just gives more fuel to the fire.  I need to focus on ME.

  I am thinking of you and sending some positive energy your way.  btw, I also live in Arizona.  It is a great time to plant some seeds and watch how they grow over the winter, which is our springtime.  I have salvia, russian sage, hummingbird mint, butterfly bush and black eyed susans growing right now.  Most were started indoors in July and once the seedlings got big enough, I transplanted them in my garden outside.  I find gardening very theraputic to get over all the drama in my life.

thinking of you this weekend ((msleah)  (that was a big virtual hug)

B

[msleah]

beatricex:

Thanks again, and I'm sending hugs back to you.

My husband and I do what we can to find enjoyment in our daily lives. Sometimes it's hard, because his energy level varies so much from one day to the next. There are days when he feels (almost) normal, and others when he has a hard time just moving around. Stage 4 cancer is a monster, and it's often difficult to tell how his body will react. Unfortunately, this situation is apt to get harder, not easier.

Add the continuous challenge of covid-19 closures to the mix, and it's not exactly a prescription for excitement. We go out of town every month and try to stay overnight in a different locale each time. This is very important to us, because we used to be such enthusiastic travelers. Early this month, we stayed a couple of nights up near the Great Canyon, and got to do a bit of exploring around the South Rim.

Since my husband and I have to go to Tucson every two weeks for his treatment, we try to have some fun while we're there. We drove around the Saguaro National Park this week and wandered down an easy trail. My husband loves saguaros -- they're very much a spiritual thing with him. We do what we can to stay safe, wear our masks, etc, but my husband doesn't know how much time he has, and he refuses to just huddle indoors. I am with him 100 percent on this.

I hope you had a great time fishing! I'm vegetarian now, but I used to love seafood. A big part of the fun is just being outside. I have fond memories of fishing in Lake Michigan with my dad.

Take care, good luck with your stepdaughter.

[beatricex]

thank you msleah!  I need patience, luck, a bit of humility...some other things.  Today, my husband is going to be talking to his other daughter, not the BPD'd one.  He would like to know where she stands in the current situation.  He is also going to reiterate she cannot talk to her sister about us.  This is too much triangulation and is not healthy for our relationship with her.

B

[once removed]

there's still some triangulation here

triangulation, maybe.

but maybe also, two different relationships, in two different statuses.

She sent a photo of herself at a women's march with about four sentences attached, and that was it

this could be read in about three different ways.

1. trying to push your buttons
2. trying to get your support
3. maybe both...

howd you respond?

[HurtBrooklyn]

I'm trying to reply to a thread about a daughter who has cut off all contact. I think I know what you are going through. My adult daughter has done that as well off and on for several years.  I'm currently banished from her life and she has cut off all communications. I'm going to respect her wishes, as I have done in the past. But, it's so hard to do that.
Sometimes her no contact periods last for months. They are heartbreaking. I have apologized to her dozens of times for specific and general issues when she asked me to do so. I've written her email apologies. I've offered to go into counseling with her and assured her she could choose the counselor and a good one would absolutely support her.
Nothing has helped.  It took me a long time to understand that nothing I said or did would help her.  It would never be good enough.
Now I'm struggling with concern for her and wondering if I should reach out to her, just so she knows I care.

[msleah]

Once Removed:

Sorry to take so long to respond! The election and general craziness of these times have caused delays in much of what I've been trying to do.

Good point about the fact that my husband isn't simply an extension of me, so my daughter has separate relationships with the two of us. This is easy for me to forget. I still feel a bit manipulated, but I'm practicing the art of letting go, with some success.

I sent her a couple of very brief, breezy notes, including a photo of some Halloween decorations. It seems to be best to keep things light for the time being. She responded with another short, noncommittal note. Part of me wants to tentatively reach out to her further, but I'm not really sure how. It's a bit like offering food to a feral cat who doesn't really trust me but still wants to eat.

Quite an image, I know...