Can someone have BPD sometimes? Confused with it all.

[Starsandstripes]

Is it possible for my wife to symptomize as BPD under certain circumstances? It seems to me that stress throughout the day plus alcohol at night equals many of the characteristics of BPD. These nights happen often and there is usually (as I see it) excess anger from the day that needs a target. Most of the time I'm the target.

I'm seeing a pattern in myself, which I don't like, of withdrawing after she symptomizes. It is hard not to protect myself, but also, during my withdrawal, she's like she was before kids...kind, capable and pleasant.

For some context, my wife's mother has BPD and my wife's CBT counselor said my wife did not have BPD. I've heard the concept of fleas that people pick up when they are around BPD folks. Is that happening?

For more context much of her build up is normal parenting frustrations and feelings of inadequately keeping up with the house. She is very hard on herself and her anger flairs up most when she's focused on something and get's interrupted. That's understandable, however, she get's so defensive at the slightest hint of me speaking into how she might keep up with the house and parent more adequately. I know men solving women's issues is a tale as old as time and I've offered my fair share of insulting, dismissive "solutions", but in general she's locked me out of speaking into her life at any level. If we talk early in the day, it usually goes well, but then months later, it seems to come back up during a heated beratement.

Is that what is happening? Is this at all BPD? What direction should I head?

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[pursuingJoy]

Hi Starsandstripes!   Welcome!

I can relate to a lot of what you shared, and I've asked myself the same question. My MIL has BPD. My husband may. At best, he has learned BPD traits (that also get worse with alcohol). Thankfully he is into fitness so I challenged us to work on reducing our alcohol intake. It's dramatically reduced his outbursts in the last ten days.

Formal diagnoses or not, it's about changing the way we relate and using tools like validation and boundaries to improve our relationships. These tools have helped me navigate relationship with kids, coworkers, etc. No matter how you look at it, or what your situation is, time here is time well spent!

I'm seeing a pattern in myself, which I don't like, of withdrawing after she symptomizes. It is hard not to protect myself, but also, during my withdrawal, she's like she was before kids...kind, capable and pleasant.

What does withdrawing look like? Why do you think she reverts to being kind, capable and pleasant?

That's understandable, however, she get's so defensive at the slightest hint of me speaking into how she might keep up with the house and parent more adequately.

I know I can relate to having higher than average validation needs. My H is also guilty of 'fixing' when I'd rather be heard, reassured, and validated. It takes a mountain of effort for him to shift what for him is a natural, knee-jerk response. It sounds like you're already aware and are working to shift from fixing to validating.   You might also appreciate our article on validating under the tools tab above. Before we validate, we need to learn not to invalidate, which can happen really easily. One tiny bit of invalidation can undo a pile of validation. I'm absolutely guilty of this, so I'm re-reading this article as soon as I sign off.

Is her housekeeping the biggest stressor for her? Does CBT seem to help? What are your stressors, and do you have supports in place?

Again, warm welcome.   We're glad you're here!

pj

[Rev]

Is it possible for my wife to symptomize as BPD under certain circumstances? It seems to me that stress throughout the day plus alcohol at night equals many of the characteristics of BPD. These nights happen often and there is usually (as I see it) excess anger from the day that needs a target. Most of the time I'm the target.

I'm seeing a pattern in myself, which I don't like, of withdrawing after she symptomizes. It is hard not to protect myself, but also, during my withdrawal, she's like she was before kids...kind, capable and pleasant.

For some context, my wife's mother has BPD and my wife's CBT counselor said my wife did not have BPD. I've heard the concept of fleas that people pick up when they are around BPD folks. Is that happening?

For more context much of her build up is normal parenting frustrations and feelings of inadequately keeping up with the house. She is very hard on herself and her anger flairs up most when she's focused on something and get's interrupted. That's understandable, however, she get's so defensive at the slightest hint of me speaking into how she might keep up with the house and parent more adequately. I know men solving women's issues is a tale as old as time and I've offered my fair share of insulting, dismissive "solutions", but in general she's locked me out of speaking into her life at any level. If we talk early in the day, it usually goes well, but then months later, it seems to come back up during a heated beratement.

Is that what is happening? Is this at all BPD? What direction should I head?

Hi - and welcome.

So - there are lots of factors and I don't want to get in the way of therapy. So for your own sanity and clarity of thought, I just wanted to add a couple philosophical point that might help you make sense of how to respond - you seem to be looking for this kind of clarity.

The first is that there is a difference between BPD the diagnosis and BP traits.   Traits are traits regardless of the cause. The diagnosis lends a help to understand what the remedy ought to be. But the absence of a diagnosis does not negate the behavior. So that is the first part of it. Ultimately, if she is in therapy, you can get coaching from her therapist if you are all in agreement.

The second is that personality disorders are on a spectrum - which means that what triggers some people will not trigger the next. But once triggered, regardless, the behavior becomes rather similar.  So again - it's not an on again / off again thing, but one of noticing patterns and thresholds.

Both of these things are moving targets - so finding time to make space for your sense of self - intentional spiritual practice where you take time to sort things out (like spending time here) is a great thing. BPD type relationships have this way of bringing down our own filters. Sometimes we too can project our own stuff on others because we're a little shaken up by the stress these relationships create on top of every day stress.   

Hope this helps.

Rev

[Rev]

I'm seeing a pattern in myself, which I don't like, of withdrawing after she symptomizes. It is hard not to protect myself, but also, during my withdrawal, she's like she was before kids...kind, capable and pleasant.

Oh and one question, if I may.

Why don't you like it if it produces results that seem to be favorable?

Rev

[Starsandstripes]

Hi Starsandstripes!   Welcome!

Thank you!

I can relate to a lot of what you shared, and I've asked myself the same question. My MIL has BPD. My husband may. At best, he has learned BPD traits (that also get worse with alcohol).

That alone is comforting, thank you.

What does withdrawing look like?

When I'm withdrawn, communication is limited to just the essentials. Levity is gone. Everything I say goes through multiple filters analyzing how they might be interpreted badly, so I end up saying much less. Sometimes I physically withdraw choosing to do stuff in a different room.

Why do you think she reverts to being kind, capable and pleasant?

I think she beats herself up a bit and wills herself to be better. I think she's fighting her fear of abandonment like crazy. My fear is that it's all an act and she knows to manipulate in order to bring me back into her clutches.

Is her housekeeping the biggest stressor for her? Does CBT seem to help? What are your stressors, and do you have supports in place?

The kids are probably the bigger stressor. Keeping house as well as some of our "OCD" friends is up on the list...pending homeschooling is up there currently. CBT helped, establishing boundaries with her BPD mother helped, but my wife is still really effected when her mother reaches out.

My stressors are my W, career fatigue, kids, I had kidney cancer last year, but that seems dealt with. I need to do better at establishing support. I have friends and leaders from church.

[Starsandstripes]

Oh and one question, if I may.

Why don't you like it if it produces results that seem to be favorable?

Rev

Thank you for that Rev. I appreciate you taking the time to reply and I am looking for clarity.

I don't like withdrawing because I can feel my walls go up. There is a sense that, if I can seal myself off from needing my W, then I'll be safe. However, that just leads to tension. I don't like going around with a chip on my shoulder, it goes against my personality.

[Rev]

Thank you for that Rev. I appreciate you taking the time to reply and I am looking for clarity.

I don't like withdrawing because I can feel my walls go up. There is a sense that, if I can seal myself off from needing my W, then I'll be safe. However, that just leads to tension. I don't like going around with a chip on my shoulder, it goes against my personality.

Ah... what an insightful response.  

So, here's one of the difficult things to get your head around. A relationship with someone who has a disorder, and by the sounds of things, an ambivalent attachment style (google attachment theory and you'll get the basics) is that they are counter intuitive to someone who has secure attachment styles.

Your answer suggests a certain anxiety in your attachment - that is to say that when you are separated you feel safer but don't like the walls that go with that.  It seems that is only further complicating things.  Hang in there and I'll explain.

Now these are generalized answers, so don't go too far with this. The point I want you to understand is that following the counter intuitive thing may be the right thing - namely to disengage is the best way to engage.  

The stress the ensues when you disengage - that's where you will really sort out where to break the cycle - because that's where you have the opportunity to connect in a healthy way and not for the sake of reducing anxiety or avoiding the parts of you and her that your don't like, but because you love her, would like to change.

Does that make sense?  It doesn't feel good to disengage, but really it's the right way to eventually engage.  Have you discussed this kind of stuff with your therapist?

Rev

[pursuingJoy]

It doesn't feel good to disengage, but really it's the right way to eventually engage.  

Starsandstripes, Rev's got a great point here. I wanted to check in quickly and let you know why disengaging was hard for me at first. My H would hurt my feelings with an outburst. I would withdraw to protect myself (my walls would go up). He would leave me alone, go silent, or act like nothing happened. I'd get resentful. The cycle started again with the next outburst. I wanted a marriage that was intimate, communicative, connected, mutually supportive. That wasn't happening. Can you relate to any of that?

BPD disrupts some of what we might consider normal relating. I had to first understand the disorder. In doing so, I took things less personally. I sorted through my priorities and decided what I could let go and what to set firm boundaries around. I learned to stabilize me even when H was dysregulating, and to respond in a way that facilitated future communication. Still working on changing old habits. 

I've learned how to disengage purposefully and usefully. This approach has worked well for me, my H, and my marriage.

Her fear of abandonment is her responsibility. Give her a second to level out and come back to baseline. Continuing to engage will make it harder for her to do so. 

I want to echo Rev's suggestion that you check out attachment theory. He's covered a lot of good stuff.