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Author Topic: A topic for discussion. Parental rights.  (Read 442 times)
JNChell
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« on: August 15, 2020, 10:10:51 AM »

I’m currently researching parental rights. My gut is telling me that I’m on the forefront of a serious attempt of parental alienation by my Son’s mother. However, this discussion isn’t meant to vent. It’s more about the business end of things.

Traditionally (1950’s America), the stereotypical family consisted of a male bread winner and a female that took care of things at home. Please don’t offended, I’m simply stating what I know about a time before I was born. With that being said, the family courts of the day, more so in the 60’s, adopted what is called the “Tender Years Doctrine” which implies that the welfare of the child is best while in the primary care of the mother. This makes sense considering what the status quo and societal norm was back then.

Dynamics are much different today, but much of the family court system still defaults to the “Tender Years Doctrine”. The courts have not evolved with society, IMHO.

Another crippling factor is the financial burden of family court. It’s absurd with how much money is drained from people that simply want to be a parent. Absurd. There is a documentary titled “Divorce Corp.” I’ll try to leave a link at the end of this post.

I’m trying to pinpoint how imbalanced the family court system can be. How gender biased it can be without real facts either through mediation or litigation. How it bankrupts people. How the Constitution is removed from the “legal” process of family court.

There is some awareness and some very good advocates that are trying to improve the system, but it simply isn’t happening fast enough. I say that from a biased POV. With all of this social justice, reforms being demanded, etc. Why haven’t we figured out a legal system that adapts to the evolution of the human condition?
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ForeverDad
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« Reply #1 on: August 16, 2020, 03:50:31 PM »

Dynamics are much different today, but much of the family court system still defaults to the “Tender Years Doctrine”. The courts have not evolved with society, IMHO.

I don't think any professional makes a direct reference to the "Tender Years Doctrine" these days.  But essentially the same preference to mothers is virtually automatic.  Fathers still work more than mothers (or often earn more than the mother) and so mothers are defaulted to preferential temp orders.  Often fathers are forced out when the couple separates and so courts assume children will stay at home with mother.

In practice it becomes not "Which parent demonstrates documented better parenting?" but instead "Let's default preference to Mother unless overwhelming reasons otherwise."

One of the reasons so few fathers get equal standing with mothers is, as one member here explained, they don't try as hard as they could to get better results from court.  In other words, it's a self-fulfilling prophecy that dads don't get more because they've been convinced by society that becoming non-primary parents and minimal time is what they get.

It doesn't help that the 'truisms' are discouraging to dads.  For example, I recall one documentary which interviewed child experts including Richard Warshak, my comments on the video:

Excerpt
(from my post here on Nov 21, 2008)
There are a few members here who live or have lived in MA, perhaps they could give more direct information, but from what I've heard MA may be the most mother-friendly state.  In a PBS program shown only in Sep-Oct 2006 but available on DVD Kids & Divorce - For Better or Worse one passage had this to say about MA:
Excerpt
Massachusetts has a reputation... you can tell who's going to get custody by who's wearing the skirt.  Opponents to change do not want proposals that assume shared parenting is best.  The response is that the current system gives children into the care of their mothers.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2020, 03:59:11 PM by ForeverDad » Logged

JNChell
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« Reply #2 on: August 23, 2020, 05:54:27 AM »

FD, thanks for the input and info. Another curiosity that I’m having is if Family Court is much more overwhelmed now than it was 60-70 years ago. I’ve not done any fact checking on that, but it seems like it would have to be on the simple fact of how high divorce rates are, children conceived out of wedlock (my situation) and how cheaply relationships seem to be treated currently. In your opinion, has the volume of cases possibly caused the courts to become passive and lazy? From the example you gave from MA, it looks like standardization. That works for manufacturing and business, but personal human dynamics are far too complex to be standardized. Some may argue that the Constitution could fall under “standardized rule”. I would disagree with that because I feel that we’re seeing what happens when it’s ignored. That’s a different conversation though. I feel that the Constitution should be recognized and upheld in Family Court to keep everyone in bounds, including legal professionals. If everyone doesn’t have guidelines, the situation can get very sideways. Especially when dictated by people in power and controlling and manipulative people that aren’t capable of recognizing what is in the best interest of the child.
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« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2020, 06:52:53 AM »

Bumping this thread as I fear I'll have similar concerns down the road, and I'm in MA.

The few attorneys I've consulted have asked the following Qs / made the following statements:

- who would the kids say is the primary caregiver?  e.g., who helps them with school?  with doctor appointments?  who cooks?  who does the laundry?  etc. etc.
- even if the father does all of these things some of the time, and even if it's well documented, in MA (no fault state), the courts will generally favor the mother as the primary caregiver
- under these conditions, 50/50 custody may be considered a "reach goal" for many dads
- as a result, the courts generally follow standard custody guidelines unless it's proven that it's not in the best interests of the child.  stating the obvious, it's likely contentious and costly to make that case...


Any update from your side? Learned anything since the OP?
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JNChell
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« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2020, 03:50:57 PM »

The only update that I have is that the initial hearing is December 2. Ironically, that’s his birthday. 5:38 pm, 2014. That will be 5 months since I will have seen him. I informed her of the date and asked if she was going to keep our Son and I apart for that long. She responded by saying that she is setting boundaries with him. Basically saying that she is putting him in between us since I’ve called her out on everything. Calling her out was a mistake, and this is the result.

From what you’ve stated in your response, I assume that you’re blocked from every aspect of your child. Education, physical health, mental health and so on. I’m also assuming that you’ve been purposely kept away from the child’s “first experiences”.
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« Reply #5 on: September 14, 2020, 06:25:05 AM »

From what you’ve stated in your response, I assume that you’re blocked from every aspect of your child. Education, physical health, mental health and so on. I’m also assuming that you’ve been purposely kept away from the child’s “first experiences”.

Good luck - that's a ways to go without seeing a child. 

I'm not in this spot yet - working to avoid it.
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ForeverDad
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You can't reason with the Voice of Unreason...


« Reply #6 on: September 14, 2020, 10:51:53 AM »

Unless she dreams up a novel way to cast you as Mr Evil Personified, you will get a schedule with your son from the court.  That's why I wrote that you be virtually angelic in any communications with her, in other words, don't stir the pot and gift her ammunition.

An order may not be equitable at first.  She may claim you were never interested in your son.  She may claim he's afraid of you.  She may claim you're an abuser, either DV or child abuse.  She may claim... anything.

So the court may call in child agencies to assess you and the child.  If possible, ask the court to assess both parents.  You are the injured party but she will claim she and son are the injured ones.  You need all assessed.  (If only you are assessed and get the predictable "little or no concerns" then court may ignore whether she's the one really at fault.)

Court might even set you temporarily as supervised parent (generally at most until the next hearing with assessment results) while it figures out the validity of her allegations but at least you'd get some time with your son.  You don't want brief supervised status but it may happen.  Just don't let her be the supervisor!
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JNChell
a.k.a. "WTL"
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« Reply #7 on: September 14, 2020, 08:29:24 PM »

Supervised visits don’t sit with me. Maybe that will be my only option. She’s going going to dream that up. That is my fault.

I appreciate all of what you have to say. It makes total sense. I can’t afford ongoing litigation. We haven’t made our first hearing to simply let me see him. I just don’t know how a person can do this to a child’s head. I know that he wants to come over here.
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“Adversity can destroy you, or become your best seller.”
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ForeverDad
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Relationship status: separated 2005 then divorced
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You can't reason with the Voice of Unreason...


« Reply #8 on: September 15, 2020, 10:36:52 PM »

No!  Supervised is NOT for you.  You've been "unsupervised" for all these years and now she's blocking?  No court ought to ding you with supervised status, even temporarily.  However, that might happen but only until the court can get associated professionals, such as social services or children's services, to do a quick assessment and give you an overall green light with "no concerns".

What I wrote was the range of possible scenarios.  I don't want you caught unawares or off guard.

In my case, there was about two weeks between my ex filing her TPO (ex parte = without me present) and when we both appeared before the court.  I guess you could say that TPO (temporary protection order) was essentially supervised status but son was removed from her petition at that second hearing when the CPS rep stood and stated they had "no concerns" about me.  Too bad the rep didn't have to say anything about her, he was only checking me out...

Side comment... One of the problems with court is that is has blinders on, if one party files an allegation, it checks that out and nothing more.  If found unsubstantiated - as often happens when we are scrutinized - it sadly doesn't scrutinize why the one who made the failed allegation did that.

That's why, if she claims you need evaluation or whatever, that you try to get the court to apply it to both parents.  You don't want one-sided scrutiny where you're the only one in the spotlight.
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JNChell
a.k.a. "WTL"
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Relationship status: Dissolved
Posts: 3520



« Reply #9 on: September 15, 2020, 11:43:04 PM »

FD, thank you so much for the advice. It’s a shame that scrutiny and everything else has to be battled out like this when it’s about our Son. I feel like this is more about her than it is about him and that really pisses me off. There are several tangibles as to why, my own failures included, but my child is currently being hurt by this and I’m not okay with that. She can’t begin to see how this might be affecting him. I understand that she isn’t capable of it, but it’s our child in the mix. I don’t feel very good about what is happening. I send him care packages every week with a written message. I don’t know if he’s being read those messages. I’m really scared that he will begin to discredit our relationship. He’s a good boy and I believe that it was good for him to have a break from the chaos at his mom’s house. 5 months is a long time. It could be longer depending on the judge. I’m scared for him and for myself. This just feels really bad.
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