More eradic behavior, when will it end

[Miriam88]

My husband is currently in training out of state for his job. He told me that he put in a request for 30 days of vacation time to begin the week following the completion of his training in another 10 days. He plans to take a trip with a male friend of his who is moving across country. The friend lost a leg after being hospitalized for a drug overdose. I used to think that my husband was so nice to take care of people, and maybe he still is, but I am not ok with this trip. I don't trust him. I have been a faithful and loyal wife. I have devoted my energies and emotions to building our marriage, but he is not honoring this. After listening to Paul Mason's book I know that I have to have boundaries. I will not have sex with him when he comes home. This is a big deal. I don't have boundaries regarding sex, but he has broken my feelings of safety and trust. My gut tells me that without safety and trust there should not be sex. Wish me luck on following through. If I don't and he goes away with his friend on his terms, sharing, as he has for the past few months, very little about his life, I will feel like a rag. But I am not a rag. I am a beautiful and intelligent woman who is worthy of loyalty and deserving of honesty.
I do not want to make an ultimatum, but I also don't want to be a rag. Any suggestions on how to discuss this with him?

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[pursuingJoy]

He plans to take a trip with a male friend of his who is moving across country. The friend lost a leg after being hospitalized for a drug overdose. I used to think that my husband was so nice to take care of people, and maybe he still is, but I am not ok with this trip. I don't trust him.

Can you tell us a little more about why you're not ok with this trip? Why don't you trust him? I read in your previous post that he's said he needs space, and that you are both nervous about what will happen once his training is over.

I do not want to make an ultimatum, but I also don't want to be a rag. Any suggestions on how to discuss this with him?

Boundaries are important. Ultimatums often make people feel like they're backed into a wall and don't usually end well. Can you share more about how he's broken your feelings of safety and trust?

In case it helps, this article from our tools tab above is a really helpful breakdown of boundaries - what they are and are not:
https://bpdfamily.com/content/setting-boundaries

[Miriam88]

Well for one thing the person he is taking a trip with is a heroine addict who lost their leg after an over dose this past year. When he had the amputation, my husband rushed to visit him traveling from the East coast to the west coast without discussing it with me. This friend is someone he bonded with when his first wife left him. After that trip he started talking about "needing space" and then separating from me.
Currently, he is saying "I don't know what will be in the future". He has spent the better part of 7 months away from home training, he is in the military, and is planning a 29 day road trip, but not anytime with me. It seems that he is serious about wanting to be separated and I am starting to think that separating may be the best thing for both of us, but I have a feeling he wants to keep me hanging as security. I am very caring and nurturing to him even when he offers little care for me in return. I now have a boundary regarding sex. Whereas in the past sex was thing I saw as being part of marriage and I andacquiesced to my husband even when he woke me up from a dead sleep to cater to him, I now (after having had separation time to reflect) only want to have sex if my husband can establish emotional safety through caring and loving behavior. I will not show up "willing and available" in bed because I have a husband although I am a very subserviant and healthy woman.

I just received some new insight from an awesome therapist I saw at our last duty station, which is in the same state but a different county. She will be giving be teletherapy as long as my insurance covers it (fingers crossed). Just now she said that my husband is on a quest to be a hero for his friend as he was a hero for me. He wants to rescue his friend for the validation.
I am concerned about the cost associated with the trip in addition to the other issues I previously mentioned. Being a hero can be expensive and my husband doesn't seek my approval before spending money.

[pursuingJoy]

This friend is someone he bonded with when his first wife left him. After that trip he started talking about "needing space" and then separating from me.

Gotcha.

It seems that he is serious about wanting to be separated and I am starting to think that separating may be the best thing for both of us, but I have a feeling he wants to keep me hanging as security.

In what way do you feel he is keeping you hanging? Do you feel you have any say in this?

I now have a boundary regarding sex.

Consent matters, even in marriage. It's also important not to wield sex like a weapon. It sounds reasonable to ask your husband to work on building your relationship and emotional intimacy before you consent to sex. 

I just received some new insight from an awesome therapist I saw at our last duty station, which is in the same state but a different county. She will be giving be teletherapy as long as my insurance covers it (fingers crossed).

That's great news! What was the new insight?

[Miriam88]

Another aspect of the issue about sex is that my husband told me that he took off his wedding band when he was hospitalized a few weeks ago and said that he did not think he would be putting it back on.
I feel that I am still his security person because he continues to share with me. He is actually sharing with me more than when he was hospitalized.
The incite from my therapist is that my husband is taking this trip to be a hero. She said that he is hoping to get an emotional rush from being this guy's savior.

[pursuingJoy]

I feel that I am still his security person because he continues to share with me. He is actually sharing with me more than when he was hospitalized.

Is this a role you want to continue to play? I know the mixed messages are hard to deal with.

[Miriam88]

If the relationship is reciprocal I don't mind, but if it is one way, I can't give of myself because it leaves me feeling depleted, therefore, I am no longer being solicitous of his feelings or experiences.
I did start putting boundaries already. My husband had my email hooked up to his phone and his watch. I changed my password last week. He did not aske about it.

[Miriam88]

D-Day, when my husband returns from training is coming up soon. I feel nervous because I don't know what to expect. He told me he took off his wedding ring, so unless he has it on, I will assume he still considers us to be separated.
I have no family, except him. My only sibling, is my older sister, who manipulated me all the time when we were kids, but now, sadly, suffers from CPTSD from some very unfortunate events in her life. My father is a narcissist who was not in my life for most of my childhood, and when he was damaging to my psyche. I fell hard for my husband, just after the unexpected death of my mother. He was my rock through a child custody case with my ex husband and took on the role of step father happily. Although, I now remember his agitation during transitions I lived my life around his needs and tried not to provoke him out rage with my criticism. Things seemed manageable until I deeply triggered his abandonment fears. One night over two years ago, he told me about forcing his ex wife to have sex in a public place. I was horrified and went to sleep in the guest room. He through a fit, screaming and banging on the walls in our bedroom. The next day his supervisor told me to meet him at the hospital when they had dropped him off. He called his problem anxiety. He was not admitted, just sent home because he was not a danger to himself.
My husband also identifies himself as having OCD. He rationalizes his need to control things and people around him by excusing it with the label OCD.
We have since moved and I am currently a full time student. I have recently watched a number of Ross Rosenberg and now recognize that I need to recover from my co-dependance. In a splitting episode during a difficult time he said ,"you are not my real mother", to which I replied, in confusion, "I never thought I was". This is just one example of how my husband has revealed his delusional thinking. Another is that he admitted to believing that my ex husband would "go away" after I won my custody case. As Input this all together I find so much of this troubling. However to further complicate things, I am currently fully financially dependant on my husband. He was fully supportive of my persuit of my college education and encouraged me, but decided this past spring that we should separate. At first he said that if my oldest child, who he can't force into compliance with his control tactics, moves out we could work out our marriage. At 21 he is old enough to move out and he is now renting a room on his own.  A few weeks ago, while at training 9 hours from home, he changed his mind about working on our and said he intends to end our marriage. The following week he was admitted into the psych ward.
 Right now, I need to finish school so that I am employable and can support my children. I also have an narcissist ex who can't get wind of my marriage problems or he will use it to torment me in yet another custody case, of which I have already won two.
In my husband's absence I have been trying to rebuild my support network as best as I can during Covid-19 semi shut down in my state and have reconnected with a number of girlfriends. I also reconnected with an old therapist who specializes in trauma and some of the advocates that helped me after the end of my last marriage which was financially, emotionally and sexually abusive. After that relationship, during the initial part of my relationship with my husband I thought I was living in a fairytale. He was emotionally and financially supportive and loving.
After reading about and watching numerous conferences about BPD I am convinced that unless my husband makes a real commitment to recovery it would be best for me and my children to end our marriage. My kids all associate my husband with screaming and control. At first, I thought he strict structure brought order to our lives but as he became more unhinged his rages at them become for damaging. I will also not tolerate his screaming at them any longer. I am going over in my mind what I will see if he starts to scream at them, but this idea scares me because I have never stood up to an abuser mid rage.
Just typing this out solidified how I feel about this situation, but feelings and actually making change are two different things. I have decided that I would like to continue school full-time and need to keep my GPA up so that I will have a chance at being rewarded competitive scholarships. For that to work out I need to keep my mind clear so I can focus and that is my most immediate concern.
Thank you for reading.

[pursuingJoy]

My goodness you're going through a lot. Big hug to you. I'm glad you found us, I'm glad you're working on building your support group, and you're in therapy and trying to learn about BPD.

I will also not tolerate his screaming at them any longer.

His screaming at you and the kids is not ok, and I not know of anyone who would recommend confronting someone mid-rage. I'm wondering if we can brainstorm scenarios to help you feel more prepared for his next dysregulation. Would that help? If so, want to offer a scenario, something that has set him off before?

Just typing this out solidified how I feel about this situation, but feelings and actually making change are two different things.

They are, but you've got to have the feeling before you make the change. You're on your way to the change part.

I have decided that I would like to continue school full-time and need to keep my GPA up so that I will have a chance at being rewarded competitive scholarships. For that to work out I need to keep my mind clear so I can focus and that is my most immediate concern.

This is a really wise move. Having this under your belt will be a confidence booster and give you options as far as your career.

[Miriam88]

His screaming at you and the kids is not ok, and I not know of anyone who would recommend confronting someone mid-rage. I'm wondering if we can brainstorm scenarios to help you feel more prepared for his next dysregulation. Would that help? If so, want to offer a scenario, something that has set him off before?

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Simple things can set him off like leaving their things around the house, not taking their dishes from the table, or of they answer back.

[Miriam88]

My goodness you're going through a lot. Big hug to you. I'm glad you found us, I'm glad you're working on building your support group, and you're in therapy and trying to learn about BPD.

Thank you. You words and feedback really mean alot.
Reading about BPD is helpful. Unfortunately, when I see my husband now, just through video, I can see that he is still disregulated and agitated, meaning he is still constantly cursing  and screaming in response to minor annoyances. I think that this had become his normal behavior for the most part, but because I did not know what to look for I did not see it. Being able to see it helps me not to be emotionally effected, althoughy heart does break for him, I now know that the things he says and does are not my fault. We were actually going to a marriage therapist, who in a weird twist into the ethical grey zone is now his therapist, who repeatedly told me that, basically I was not doing enough to stroke his ego. He had screaming rages in her office. She dealt with them by sending him to "cool off"  in the waiting room and then lectured me, the subserviant wife, about the "dot" (read male ego), that exists in all men. She said that when this dot is not catered to "you get that", she said and motioned toward the waiting room where my husband was. She blamed me for his behavior and I kept trying harder and harder to not tick him off. I thought the scattering of my thoughts and the unseating of my groundedness that came in the wake of his outbursts were my own PTSD, now I know that it is a normal response to being screamed at. However, now that I can see the BPD, I hope I can better control how I respond.

[pursuingJoy]

She said that when this dot is not catered to "you get that", she said and motioned toward the waiting room where my husband was.

She blamed me for his behavior and I kept trying harder and harder to not tick him off.

However, now that I can see the BPD, I hope I can better control how I respond.

I don't really like how she worded it, and I hope she doesn't mean it that way. Because BPD's need a LOT of validation, I wonder if there is a nugget of useful truth in what she's saying. Your H has very low self-esteem. Validating means letting him be who and where he is, without judgment.

Check out this article on validating and let me know what you think:
https://www.bpdfamily.com/content/communication-skills-dont-be-invalidating

When it comes to responding, the best responses are often those that feel counter intuitive. Simply backing up, getting smaller, and taking up less space are normal responses, but they come with resentment, losing your voice and sacrificing what you value. Playing smart, not hard, is what we really want to go for. Here's a list of validating questions to keep on hand:
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=273415.0

When you're silent, let it be because you're choosing silence to fulfill a goal. When you speak, let it be something validating and useful that will get you closer to your goal of respecting yourself and your values, and deescalating your H.

BPD is unsettling for us nons. It is really difficult to deal with, even on good days.  I love this site and what I've learned and the people here because I now feel stronger. I want the same for you.

[Miriam88]

I don't really like how she worded it, and I hope she doesn't mean it that way. Because BPD's need a LOT of validation, I wonder if there is a nugget of useful truth in what she's saying. Your H has very low self-esteem. Validating means letting him be who and where he is, without judgment.

Check out this article on validating and let me know what you think:

My husband is not diagnosed. When she said this it was regular marriage counseling advice, which I now see as not particularly helpful because it just gave me more space to cater to him and let that monster grow instead of change.
I spoke to her last week about my belief that he has BPD and she only told me that people with personality disorders have to want to change. She said this with a pause that suggested her trying to recall something to say about the topic because, I believe this is not something she regularly works with. He keeps putting his telephone sessions with her on our family calendar so I know that he continues to meet with her. I think he needs more intense therapy than just this commandeered marriage counselor, who really did not seem to be working on any goal when she saw us as a couple. He had an intake with a psychologist who I have more hope in before he left for training, and that seemed to go well, I just hope he goes back to see him.

 

 

[Miriam88]

Check out this article on validating and let me know what you think:
https://www.bpdfamily.com/content/communication-skills-dont-be-invalidating

When it comes to responding, the best responses are often those that feel counter intuitive. Simply backing up, getting smaller, and taking up less space are normal responses, but they come with resentment, losing your voice and sacrificing what you value. Playing smart, not hard, is what we really want to go for. Here's a list of validating questions to keep on hand:
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=273415.0

When you're silent, let it be because you're choosing silence to fulfill a goal. When you speak, let it be something validating and useful that will get you closer to your goal of respecting yourself and your values, and deescalating your H.

BPD is unsettling for us nons. It is really difficult to deal with, even on good days.  I love this site and what I've learned and the people here because I now feel stronger. I want the same for you.

Thank you pursuing Joy!
I am going to check those out.

[Miriam88]

 
I read through that article on invalidation. I have to admit that I started and stopped reading a few times to digest what it said. I have concluded that I have been invalidating to both my husband and my children. I do this because I frequently invalidate myself as a matter of course. I remember a number of instances where my husband wanted my undivided attention  , but it was not possible. He frequently starts conversations before bed when is is already late. I also see many things very differently from him. It seemed like he was always complaining about things that I felt were quite trivial. I now understand that my lack of validation was hurtful to him and impeads my relationships with my children. Thank you for sharing that article with me. I am committed to building more fulfillment in my relationships by making validation part of my life. I found the second link particularly helpful, because it illistrates how to be validating. I have further reflected on the pain that I experienced because my parents frequently failed to validate me. In the case of my father, he had a habit of denying me my own thoughts by telling me, on many occasions, that someone must have told me something I said because I could not have thought of it myself. Just the memory makes me feel depleted.
I don't know that my husband and I can or should work on our marriage. He is planning to come home on Wednesday and leave for a 29 day trip with his boyfriend on Friday. I have been processing lots of raw emotions about this situation, but I am also commited to self improvement, so that I can offer myself and those who love me greater happiness. Part of that will be that ability to offer validation.  Thank you for guiding me to a place of understanding.  

[pursuingJoy]

I have been processing lots of raw emotions about this situation, but I am also commited to self improvement, so that I can offer myself and those who love me greater happiness.

We're here to support in any way we can. 

pj

[Miriam88]

We're here to support in any way we can. 

pj

Thank you PJ.
He comes home tomorrow, but will be leaving for his trip on Friday.
I am trying to hold things together without being a care taker.
I have been using validation and active listening with everyone in my family and hope that when he returns from his 'vacation" in four weeks I will be prepared to maintain a healthy environment for everyone including myself.
I was once a very religious person. My husband and I both left a cult community and met in a support group for former members. Part of my religious teaching was that one's marriage partner is a chosen by God to perfect one another. I find it interesting that in finding out about BPD I have learned so much about myself. By learning to be a better partner I am learning to be a better self. The thing that makes me feel most vulnerable is that he said he wants to end our marriage. I feel like I am doing mental and emotional gymnastics to tell him and myself that I want him to be healthy for him and me to by healthier for me but that I may be investing in someone that I will not be married to in the future. I am struggling to make peace with this and striving to find my higher self. In spite of having left my cult because it was abusive and supportive of abuse I feel the need for spiritual connection to bring me through this and in addition to everything else I feel the need to re-establish the spiritual connection that once brought me so much catharsis.
Thank you PJ

[pursuingJoy]

I imagine the few days you'll be together may bring up some intense emotions? I'll be thinking about you. Drop a line here if you need us. 

[Miriam88]

I imagine the few days you'll be together may bring up some intense emotions? I'll be thinking about you. Drop a line here if you need us. 

Much appreciated!