Why can’t i let myself be pleased my bpdH is improving?

[Diddle]

So i told my previously undiagnosed husband that if he didn’t get help and address that fact that we suspect he is effected by BPD and we have major issues then i would not be staying in our marriage. 
So he has spoken to a mental health professional and has been diagnosed with emotionally unstable disorder with bpd traits. Which i believe to be the same thing? But perhaps could be more severe. The docs did admit to me that they don’t like to label so possibly wouldn’t tell him a specific diagnosis as it doesn’t help.

So for the last week since diagnosis he has been more aware of his own thoughts and is trying to not get angry. Which has gone well so far.
I just don’t seem to be able to let  myself start feeling happy about this.
I really don’t like the fact that the past 19 yrs of my life have been consumed by his moods and i’d love the next 19 to be amazing, and i’m usually such a positive person about non marriage related issues but i feel really defensive, which surely won’t help him either.

[formflier]

So for the last week since diagnosis he has been more aware of his own thoughts and is trying to not get angry. Which has gone well so far.
 

I think it's completely normal to have complicated feelings about this. 

Am I right that there were "flashes" of happiness...or "gladness" that "it" was found and identified?

There were likely similar flashes where you wished "they would have seen the light earlier."

19 years is a long time to dedicate to those weird BPDish moods.  At least for me, I still have times when I want those time acknowledged and perhaps "paid for".

Having a good therapist for me has been really helpful in caring for my part of this and the fallout from my wife's behavior over the years. (which is thankfully dramatically better)

Can you tell me some out your self care routine?  I think that's a good place to start.

Best,

FF

[coolspring]

So i told my previously undiagnosed husband that if he didn’t get help and address that fact that we suspect he is effected by BPD and we have major issues then i would not be staying in our marriage.  
So he has spoken to a mental health professional and has been diagnosed with emotionally unstable disorder with bpd traits. Which i believe to be the same thing? But perhaps could be more severe. The docs did admit to me that they don’t like to label so possibly wouldn’t tell him a specific diagnosis as it doesn’t help.

So for the last week since diagnosis he has been more aware of his own
thoughts and is trying to not get angry. Which has gone well so far.
I just don’t seem to be able to let  myself start feeling happy about this.
I really don’t like the fact that the past 19 yrs of my life have been consumed by his moods and i’d love the next 19 to be amazing, and i’m usually such a positive person about non marriage related issues but i feel really defensive, which surely won’t help him either.

I feel for you, my HBPD has resisted going into therapy. I have never mentioned that I suspect BPD or any other issues, it would cause a MAJOR blowout. Looking back over our 37 years of marriage and problems we had, I feel depressed and sad that I thought he was just extremely difficult and was not suffering from a mental disorder. I really want to enjoy our retirement, however I feel like a prisoner because he “guards” my freedom and I am tired of walking on eggshells.

[Diddle]

Am I right that there were "flashes" of happiness...or "gladness" that "it" was found and identified?

Yes the fact that there’s a reason been discovered for H behaviour and that he has acknowledged it a little too is definitely a good thing. I’m not sure how it made him feel perhaps not fully responsible for his actions and pleased it was something he could word on to keep me.
I felt happy it wasn’t just the way he was and that i’d been right to pursue the fact that It could be something he could improve on to make himself a happier person.

As for Self Care pre-lockdown i went to a relaxation class once a week, this is being done online currently from home.
I take myself off to my local coffee shop to get out of the house and lunch with a friend once a week.
I work from home as does he, so going Out usually comes with questions from him, so i don’t do too much

[formflier]

I work from home as does he, so going Out usually comes with questions from him, so i don’t do too much

Hmmm...how many times did you go out last week?

We'll triple that this week...right?

What if...what if you went out because you thought it wise and needed?  How about you let your husband ask the questions he thinks he needs to ask...and then you consider them and answer what you think needs to be answered..in the way you feel is healthy to answer.

Hmmm...?

What do you think?

Best,

FF

[Diddle]

.

I really want to enjoy our retirement, however I feel like a prisoner because he “guards” my freedom and I am tired of walking on eggshells.

What you are feeling now is what i want to avoid in another ten years time. I suspect i can lessen the effects of my H impact on my feelings, but will never get the consideration or support from him that i would love. It feels very lonely. I’ve followed a few of your posts and read your accounts and they’re so similar to my own. I just want a happy calm life, not too much to ask is it
Sending hugs   to you

[Diddle]

What if...what if you went out because you thought it wise and needed?  How about you let your husband ask the questions he thinks he needs to ask...and then you consider them and answer what you think needs to be answered..in the way you feel is healthy to answer.

Hmmm...?

What do you think?

Well i went out once this week and as the children will be back at school next week, i could increase this and after all this lockdown i feel like i am desperate to escape. Even with us both here and working and the boys being on school hols i am in charge of them, so leaving them at home with H works is not ok for long.

Yep i can choose to go out, and choose the questions i answer in a calm healthy way, but the feeling of anxiety and worry that brews inside at the thought of that is crazy. I hate it so much.
He has a tracker on my phone, which I turned off this week. I popped out to the post office (exciting i know) and when i got back he wanted to know why my tracker was off (he wouldn’t know that if he hadn’t checked it)I calmly answered his questions, telling him i thought it unhealthy for himtoo need to know my every move and he should trust me. He thought i had gone off to meet another man. His questions were all calm too.

But why should i be made to feel like I’m untrustworthy and have to answer questions calm or otherwise. Surely i deserve trust as much as he deserves understanding.

My brain hurts trying to muddle through this this week.

I’m already feeling slight joy at the thought of going out next week though, thank you x

[formflier]

Complicated and interrelated stuff.

The best way to work through this is to separate all of this into manageable bits.  Also focus on who actually controls what...who owns what.

  but the feeling of anxiety and worry that brews inside at the thought of that is crazy. I hate it so much.

Whose anxiety is this?



 

He has a tracker on my phone, which I turned off this week. 

History is sometimes important. 

Can you roll back time and catch us up on how the tracker got there in the first place, how long, good parts of it, bad parts of it...and then finish up with "now" when you turn it off.

At first glace...I think you did a good and healthy thing!

Best,

FF

[Diddle]

Yep i agree FF it definitely needs separating rather than swimming around my brain.

The anxiety of mine, based on his previous reactions to me going out without him or children to do something for me. If he isn’t occupied with work while i’m out i get text messages trying to make sure my attention is on him.

So the tracker is on all our phones so we can see where the children are and know they are safe or check where they are if late from school. It was First added between me and our eldest when he went to secondary school, as soon as H knew about it he wanted to be added to it, despite having nothing to do with the childrens movements at all.But he uses it to check up on me, has questioned why i went to so and so and what i was doing there etc. As though he needs full disclosure of my whereabouts.
If i were going somewhere for an evening i would tell him of course in case he needed me, but not if i was heading to the supermarket and i wouldn’t ask it of him.

[coolspring]

[quote author=Diddle link=topic=346106.msg13122192#msg13122192 date=1598714279

Thank you Diddle, hugs to you also.

[formflier]

 As though he needs full disclosure of my whereabouts.
 

When you asked him for help understanding how this is important to him..what was his answer?

Best,

FF

[Cat Familiar]

The limitations on freedom start slowly, with reasonable concerns about where we are and if we’re safe. Then over time, it becomes more ominous. If we don’t constantly check in, then they assume we’re sneaking around with someone behind their back.

Best to never let it get so out of whack. But when it is, then taking steps to have more freedom must come with complete certainty and confidence that it is our right to determine where and when we go and other than polite consideration, we don’t need to detail our movements minute by minute.

That will take some determination if you’re accustomed to being accommodating to others’ moods.

[Notwendy]

It was an MC who "precribed" that I attend 12 step co-depency meetings. They met in the evening and I had to leave the house to go. ( this was before Covid-19).

This was huge and I was terrified. There were times people asked me to do things and my response was to say "I can't" and they didn't know why.

But I was so conditioned to avoid conflict that I wouldn't do it.

This was so co-dependent. To manage my own anxiety, I limited myself to help manage my H's own anxiety.

He would never say "no you can't go". He knew that I would consider him to be a jerk if he said that. He just made it hard for me to go.

When the kids were little he'd refuse to watch them. If I wanted to go somewhere, I had to get a sitter. That was hard to do sometimes.

Or a couple of times, he'd agree to watch them and then refuse at the last minute. Or he'd talk me out of going.

All this because of some unfounded fear that I would "meet someone" and leave him. I have not ever done this. It was also irrational what kind of situation would trigger these fears.

With the help of this MC, I got the courage to go out to meetings. I also then gained the courage to see old friends in a completely safe and harmless situation - with spouses and children along. This did not go over well. But by then, I knew I had no control over anyone's imagination. I learned that- even if someone thinks something, that doesn't make it true.

It was scary to deal with the angry outbursts, but once I stopped "managing" the feelings and learned to manage my own, it got better.

It's partly your own anxiety that stops you. This is on you. You can learn to manage this. Your H has to learn to manage his own feelings. Stop doing that for him. The way you learn is to go out and do things. It will get easier for you, and gives your H the opportunity to practice managing his.

As the Nike commercial says-- Just do it!

[Diddle]

When you asked him for help understanding how this is important to him..what was his answer

I didn’t need to ask him he offered me the information “you could be going off meeting anyone and having an affair” “were you, do you want to?”

[Diddle]

Cat Familiar and Notwendy

I totally agree, crazily i know if you had written my account, i could tell you what you have told me. It seems so hard to take those steps myself.
It too am conditioned to avoid conflict, its self preservation, why would i choose to do something that could make him rage at me more.

This is hard

[formflier]

I didn’t need to ask him he offered me the information “you could be going off meeting anyone and having an affair” “were you, do you want to?”

So...when you asked him how tracker information helped him with these possibilities, he said?

Best,

FF

[Cat Familiar]

When he rages, what do you do? Is he ever violent? Has he threatened you physically?

[Diddle]

So...when you asked him how tracker information helped him with these possibilities, he said?

Good question, i have never considered asking why he thought the tracker would make any difference to that thought. Apart from i believe he is checking i am where i say i’m going and not going elsewhere.

When he rages, what do you do? Is he ever violent? Has he threatened you physically?

No CatFamiliar he has not been physically violent, perhaps a little intimidating getting in my personal space a couple of times, but i don’t feel physically unsafe.
When he first started raging (yrs ago) i would just pacify him, keep things calm, reassure him. It was early in our relationship And i felt responsible. After about 12 yrs of this i felt i had completely lost myself, that i was always Pacifying him and my needs were never ever considered. So i told him, this marriage was all one sided and i wasn’t asking for anything other than some care, consideration And respect.

Me standing up for myself changed everything for the worse.
So i have spent some time defending myself and trying to reason, does nothing.

I have tried walking away, but still within our home, he follows me and carries on.

I have tried leaving the house to get some space, he calls me hurling abuse and demanding i come home as he needs to go out and he’s about to leave the children on their own.

I have tried saying nothing, or suggesting he’s not in the right space to talk calmly and he needs be calm first, he talks at me, tells me i don’t even care enough to respond.

Exhausting

[formflier]

I'm going to encourage you to "embrace curiosity".

Also embrace "befuddlement"

Good question, i have never considered asking why he thought the tracker would make any difference to that thought. Apart from i believe he is checking i am where i say i’m going and not going elsewhere.
 

I've used both of those feelings/thoughts to be "authentic".

Wife:  (insert crazy thing)

Me:  Oh my...I'm curious how you think that through?

Then when she defers  "You seem to have thought about this a great deal and it seems important to you.  So I don't understand the lack of explanation."    "Let me know when you want to talk more about  this."

I stay open, I don't suggest she is wrong...I do explicitly say I don't understand...

You can kinda get the vibe.

Oh..for the bolded part of the quote.  It's not about what you think (trust me)...it's about his thoughts.  Keep giving him chances to be explicit with them.

Best,

FF

[Diddle]

FF
Love this little challenge thank you. I feel i will easily manage to be befuddled

[RestlessWanderer]

It too am conditioned to avoid conflict, its self preservation, why would i choose to do something that could make him rage at me more.

I know exactly what you mean. I have not started a single argument with my wife in the 9 years we’ve been together, but we have argued nearly every day for years now. I recently thought about the reasons I am still in this marriage and one of the reasons I discovered was I was afraid of starting an argument. An argument that was sure to be the worst one ever.
When I read what you wrote here it made me think of that discovery. I can’t even tell you if that’s what I really feel. Constantly analyzing my thoughts and actions is exhausting and probably clouds my mind.

[formflier]

  I have not started a single argument with my wife in the 9 years we’ve been together, but we have argued nearly every day for years now.

I'm curious to understand how you have the power to not "start" an argument, yet apparently still argue every day.

Do you not have the power to decide if you will argue or not...regardless of "who started it"?

Best,

FF

[Diddle]

I recently thought about the reasons I am still in this marriage and one of the reasons I discovered was I was afraid of starting an argument. An argument that was sure to be the worst one ever.
When I read what you wrote here it made me think of that discovery. I can’t even tell you if that’s what I really feel. Constantly analyzing my thoughts and actions is exhausting and probably clouds my mind.

Yes! that is just how I feel. I feel like I have mentally checked out of the marriage, but while it's currently calm, I can't possibly bring that up, through fear of creating the mother if all explosions.Then I feel guilty for feeling that way when its all fine this week. Even though I know there are bound to be major eruptions the I least expect them. Like I'm over-reacting about the 19 years of chaos I've just lived and I'm the one causing the issue.
Exhausted!

I'm pleased to hear though that you RestlessWanderer are trying to find some sense of your own thoughts. This morning I realised I need some quiet. After 5 months of us all living in each others pockets, a chance to think is definitely much needed.

[Cat Familiar]

Rage works because it definitely gets our attention and we respond to it in a way that is giving them what they want, whether it be soothing behavior from us, not leaving the house, letting them monitoring our whereabouts constantly, getting us to do things for them, or not do things we want to do.

What if it no longer works?

As in all operant conditioning, the likelihood is that they will try even harder, hence an extinction burst, or tantrum.

But if we remain solid in our conviction to never again reinforce the rage episodes, they will eventually disappear.

The key is NEVER AGAIN reinforcing them for raging.

It will be uncomfortable and unpleasant and unpredictable, but if you no longer are willing to tolerate raging, you can choose not to.

It won’t be easy, but it’s doable.

[formflier]

The key is NEVER AGAIN reinforcing them for raging.

While I'm "so so" on Dr Phil, there was one succinct piece of advice that I really thought was wise. 

"Never reward bad behavior"

Pretty simple and it's hard to disagree with that.

BPDish stuff is more complex, because often what appears as a negative to us, is actually the "reward" they are looking for.

Kinda a they would rather have a bad reward than a good one or no reward.

Best,

FF

[RestlessWanderer]

Yes! that is just how I feel. I feel like I have mentally checked out of the marriage, but while it's currently calm, I can't possibly bring that up, through fear of creating the mother if all explosions.Then I feel guilty for feeling that way when its all fine this week. Even though I know there are bound to be major eruptions the I least expect them. Like I'm over-reacting about the 19 years of chaos I've just lived and I'm the one causing the issue.
Exhausted!

I'm pleased to hear though that you RestlessWanderer are trying to find some sense of your own thoughts. This morning I realised I need some quiet. After 5 months of us all living in each others pockets, a chance to think is definitely much needed.

I too have mentally and emotionally checked out. It’s hard to feel affection for someone who has no problem calling me a worthless piece of s&@t on a regular basis over the smallest things (more than once it was because I was cleaning the kitchen). Then I feel guilty for feeling that way when things are good or she’s talking about our future in a good light. So then I feel confused about why I stay.
It’s complicated to say the least.

[Cat Familiar]

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