Counseling/Therapy - Getting SO to get help

[Nala2020]

I am in a relationship with someone with likely BPD; however, she is not willing to admit that she's to blame for any of the chaos that exists in our relationship.  I care about her and I just want her to be happy.  How do you get someone you care about to recognize that they need help and to seek it?  I'm looking for any personal success stories.  I know that telling her that I think she has BPD is not the way to approach this.

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[pursuingJoy]

Hi Nala. Can you give us an example of a conversation where you broach responsibility? Does your SO deflect? Project? Blame?

My H was raised by a BPD mother. I'm not certain he has full-blown BPD but he definitely bears traits. I haven't talked to either of them about BPD and most likely won't, because I agree, it would be counter productive.

H went to individual counseling a few times many years ago when he was cheating on his ex-wife.

He came to our marriage counseling sessions, making sure that the therapist and I knew he was there not because he needed help but "to support me." When the therapist brought up individual counseling, he refused.

So, I share your frustration and I don't really have any groundbreaking advice, other than to say that the best thing I've done is build me, set boundaries, and mirror, not absorb. H's behavior is his to carry. I focus on the pieces that are mine. He won't change until he wants to. By refusing to engage in codependent relating, I increase the chance that he'll take responsibility for his behavior, counseling or not.

[Nala2020]

Hi Nala. Can you give us an example of a conversation where you broach responsibility? Does your SO deflect? Project? Blame?

My H was raised by a BPD mother. I'm not certain he has full-blown BPD but he definitely bears traits. I haven't talked to either of them about BPD and most likely won't, because I agree, it would be counter productive.

H went to individual counseling a few times many years ago when he was cheating on his ex-wife.

He came to our marriage counseling sessions, making sure that the therapist and I knew he was there not because he needed help but "to support me." When the therapist brought up individual counseling, he refused.

So, I share your frustration and I don't really have any groundbreaking advice, other than to say that the best thing I've done is build me, set boundaries, and mirror, not absorb. H's behavior is his to carry. I focus on the pieces that are mine. He won't change until he wants to. By refusing to engage in codependent relating, I increase the chance that he'll take responsibility for his behavior, counseling or not.

@pursuingJoy - my G does all of the above, she deflects, projects and blames.  I will give an example, but first, let me say that the pattern that has been pervasive throughout our relationship for the last, at least, year is that any time we get into a disagreement (it's usually my G is upset with something I have said or done), her response is that she wants me to admit that I was wrong, apologize and tell her that I'm going to change.  This is almost every time.  When I try to have a discussion with her about what happened, or what she thinks happened, she says I'm just giving her excuses and that I'm never willing to admit to being wrong.  I don't actually have a problem with being wrong, but I feel like she's just looking for things to get mad or upset about it.  Even when I do apologize for making her feel a certain way, that doesn't do it.  She's still upset and keeps saying she wants me to change - the things that she wants me to change is an ever evolving and long list.  We can't ever have a rational, civil conversation because she's so upset or angry - if we're on the phone, she hangs up on me, or if we're in person, she leaves.

Example - we had a trip planned last year.  The night before we were supposed to leave, she got upset with me.  I was at her house and she was going to drive me back to my house (I didn't have my car - we live 40 minutes apart) so that we could each pack.  We were going to meet at the airport the next day.  She asked me to be ready at a certain time, and I told her that I needed 15 extra minutes just to get a work email out.  That set her off, because to her, that was me not respecting her time.  When I tried to explain that I had an urgent deadline, it didn't matter.  I tried to assure her that I did respect her time, but that the email was important.  She got irate and wouldn't let it go.  I offered to Uber.  She did drive me home, but then later that night, after thinking about it more, she became more upset as the night went on.  She also drinks in the evenings and that makes it worse.  She called me and was yelling, then she hung up on me.  She sent me several more texts about how terrible I was and that she was no longer going on the trip anymore.  She wouldn't respond to me at all, and didn't show up at the airport.  I was of course very upset - was to go see my family for a holiday.  Once I got where I was going, she started incessantly calling me and demanding that I buy her another flight - that it was my fault for upsetting her that she didn't get on the first flight.  I had sent her messages asking her to please come on the trip, that we would talk about it either when we got there or when we got back.  She wasn't interested.  Then she was more upset with me that she didn't "get" to go on the trip when it was her choice all along.

The only things that she will acknowledge are her fault, are things that are pretty black and white - she will apologize for yelling or saying something hurtful, but she will also point out that I "made" her do it because of what I did.

We went to couples' counseling once - she wouldn't go back after the first session.  I asked her to go again so that we could work on our communication.  She agreed.  I found another T (she didn't like the first one).  Right before we were supposed to have our first session with the new T, she said that she wasn't going to couples' counseling until I fixed all of my issues first.  I started to see a T earlier this year in January (she told me last summer she would go to a T), so I thought if I went, that would maybe prompt her to go too.  She still hasn't started going.  She says she's working on her issues herself (by doing Bible studies and going to church).  I do see some progress (less verbally abusive - doesn't call me names anymore), but not anything significant. 

I am not at all trying to blame her for everything that is wrong in our relationship - I know that I'm not perfect, but I just don't understand how to get her to see how her actions/overreactions contribute.  At first, I didn't understand BPD, and I told her often that she was overreacting.  I know understand why that was a mistake.  I'm trying to read more about BPD to try to better respond.  I don't know if that alone will be enough because her anger/resentment/bitterness takes over and then there is no calming her down for days.  If I try to reach out in the first few days, she just gets angrier, and if I wait too long, then she thinks that I abandoned her.  I'm so exhausted and I can't think of anything more to do.  She is such a lovely person - I struggle to understand how there are such two different versions of her.  She truly doesn't think she's part of the problem.  She thinks it's just me and I don't know to approach it differently.

[Jay763]

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Hi,

I read your entire thread. I am dealing or have dealt with the same "bad behavior", that I feel I have been coddling and over apologizing if stuff comes up and I'm running late. Everything must be about them; they will throw fits and ruin plans just to create drama and put the attention on them. They are experts at sabotaging everything and making mountains out of molehills. In fact, they should get an award for the theatrical production that seems to be never-ending. Point in case is: how do we tell someone with all of the classic signs of BPD that they should be tested for it? We have to pick our battles wisely when they just battle about EVERYTHING. At first, I thought I was dealing with bipolar but after researching BPD; it fits like a glove. So what is the way to bring this up...well when all is calm and having talks; you could say, I see a pattern of behavior that isn't stopping or subsiding and I'm wondering, have you thought that maybe you want to get tested for BPD? There is hope to feeling better even if we are not together. I mean, I may take my advice (someday). We aren't talking right now; surprise? Another break up. Always crying for unreasonable attention and when it is not given; break up language is sent my way. It's a roller coaster and when I am not around, I guess he's at peace until, something other than spilled milk pisses him off.

[Nala2020]

At first, I thought I was dealing with bipolar but after researching BPD; it fits like a glove.

I thought the same thing, but it didn't quite fit, and then I thought that she had certain narcissistic traits (such as entitlement), but that wasn't quite right either.  It wasn't until it occurred to me that her ex had once told me about BPD.  At the time, I didn't think anything about it (boy, would that have possibly saved me some time), but I started researching and everything made sense again.  I said to her throughout our relationship all the things that I didn't even understand were part of BPD - I didn't understand how she saw everything in black and white; I didn't understand how or why she made facts fit her emotions; I didn't understand how something minor could cause such an intense reaction/overreaction.

Then, I tried to look at things from her perspective and think, well, did I have a part in that?

Update: after she broke up with me again for the 38th time on 8/24, she was tagged on FB this week, on Tuesday, that she's in a new relationship (someone took a screenshot and sent me - according to the comments, she is the happiest she has ever been and didn't know she could be that happy).  I certainly do not understand the need for two adults to rush into a relationship or immediately post about it on FB, knowing they are hurting other people (not only would my ex know that it would hurt me, the new person she is with also just left someone, and we're all friends on FB).  So childish in my opinion (although, I was always the immature one according to her).  So, nothing more for me to do now.  I had just been researching BPD and was putting together a letter for my ex to set out everything I wanted to say.  She had recently out of the blue asked me if I thought I was bipolar.  I told her that I was pretty sure that I wasn't, but I got to thinking - and I was going to tell her that, while I didn't think that I was bipolar, that I was willing to get diagnosed to make sure I wasn't in denial about anything, and that in fact, why didn't we both get assessed by a clinician for any type of disorders to both work on anything to improve ourselves?  I thought that might work, but I didn't get to that before she apparently had time to find someone else.  I know that's common from what I read on here, but I never thought she'd actually do it that fast when this back and forth has been going on for a year.  I stopped taking her seriously when she would break up with me.  She apparently meant it this time, and now I'm left very confused.

[Jay763]

I'm sorry that happened. Impulsivity is another trait they have. Sometimes there are layers underneath BPD; for example my SO has depression, childhood trauma, major insecurities, grandiose ideas, I mean he is a walking DSM. Honestly, it's smart that you suggested you both be assessed because in my 4 year experience with this bad behavior, is that they don't want "that" attention on them, because a) they have to admit it, b) it's their problem to work on and change c) they don't get to blame you anymore. I think when BDPs are so tired of their mood swings is when they reach out for professional help. Your SO will have the same behavior in all relationships, they will forever be battling themselves and blaming whomever is around them until hopefully one day they wake the hell up. BTW: my SO breaks up with me after almost every battle he creates in his mind, and says hurtful things like, we have nothing in common, we have no interests; (when we used to go on road trips all the time pre-covid), I even made two large picture collages of all of our trips and he still battles me and says I do nothing with him. It's baffling. This time around, I stood up and called him out on his "in common" BS and let him know I am tired of him breaking up with me and that he is emotionally unstable, not me. (haven't heard from him in a week; that's not unusual after a fight), but I'm at my wits end! It's covid, what the hell do you want from me so badly - a battle? Well you WIN.

[Nala2020]

Sometimes there are layers underneath BPD; for example my SO has depression, childhood trauma, major insecurities, grandiose ideas, I mean he is a walking DSM. Honestly, it's smart that you suggested you both be assessed because in my 4 year experience with this bad behavior, is that they don't want "that" attention on them, because a) they have to admit it, b) it's their problem to work on and change c) they don't get to blame you anymore. I think when BDPs are so tired of their mood swings is when they reach out for professional help. Your SO will have the same behavior in all relationships, they will forever be battling themselves and blaming whomever is around them until hopefully one day they wake the hell up. BTW: my SO breaks up with me after almost every battle he creates in his mind, and says hurtful things like, we have nothing in common, we have no interests; (when we used to go on road trips all the time pre-covid), I even made two large picture collages of all of our trips and he still battles me and says I do nothing with him. It's baffling. This time around, I stood up and called him out on his "in common" BS and let him know I am tired of him breaking up with me and that he is emotionally unstable, not me. (haven't heard from him in a week; that's not unusual after a fight), but I'm at my wits end! It's covid, what the hell do you want from me so badly - a battle? Well you WIN.

I completely understand all of that.  My SO/ex is also a walking DSM as well - absent parents, sexual abuse during childhood, loss of multiple siblings, abandonment issues, insecurities, anger, alcohol abuse (sometimes manages only a few drinks a night during the week - but I don't think she could stop drinking consistently), depression, can't handle stress.  There is so much, but underneath all of that, there is this amazing woman who is kind and incredibly fun and empathetic and enjoyable to be around, when in a stable state and not being triggered by me or something else.

I thought if I suggested that we both take assessment/diagnostic tests to each better ourselves, I would have the best chance of success/agreement to do so.  However, I didn't get there before she moved on to another relationship recently.  Previously, she would agree to couples counseling, and I even got her to go to one session.  She cancelled on the second session when we were already on the way.  Then she finally agreed to go again in May of this year, only to pick a fight with me a week later and tell me that couples counseling was off the table until I fixed all my issues first.  She also has started attending church and doing Bible studies and she says that is all she needs to do to fix her issues.

She also blamed me for everything, but would say that I was the one who was stubborn and would never apologize.  I begin to think I was going crazy.  She would also say that I was just like everyone else she had dated, that we were all stubborn and fought against her, and that when she would leave me eventually, I'd realize like they all did what I had done wrong.  I asked her one time, if she was really saying that every relationship she had ended because of the other person and that I was only to blame for everything - she would respond that it wasn't about blame, that we simply didn't work as a couple because of all the chaos that she would never understand (I wanted to say - the chaos is because of you!  But that's me blaming everything on her).

Even before I knew about BPD, I always stressed to her throughout the relationship my need for consistency.  The first time she "broke up" with me, I thought she was serious and I was so upset.  I then discovered that after a few more times that she was only using that as a threat and a way to get what she wanted (I'm not used to people breaking up with me repeatedly).  She kept telling me to change, but I never knew what I was supposed to actually be changing in her mind (was always something different - I was a liar, cheater, manipulator, game player, selfish, stubborn - you name it).  I never got consistency, obviously, but I would wait a few days and then she would be calm and we'd go back to "normal" only to have her blowup later because I never addressed what she was upset about underneath, and for some reason, I let this pattern continue without trying to figure out what was actually going on - I did try to react differently or do different things.  My friends thought I was crazy to put up with the behavior, and now they still don't understand when I explain to them about BPD.  I just didn't understand it either at the time and I was trying to rationalize something that wasn't rationale.  Plus, I was putting up with the bad, to wait for the good version of her, which I ultimately think I knew wouldn't work long term.  I just kept hoping she would go to therapy.  Instead, she left when someone else pursued her.  Apparently, she did mean the break up this last time.

We'll see how her new relationship goes, I suppose.  Her new person is studying to be a psychologist, so that should be interesting.   

[Jay763]

Reading your response was like reading my own typing...it's so bizarre! The blame shifting was constant, canceling therapy, picking fights, the list goes on. I'm not sure if this will make you feel better but, whenever I pointed something out to be worked on, he was quick to say "what about you". It appears that BPDs do not want to work on their emotional issues (long term). Your SO is now dating a psychologist is comical and will not last, come on. (I'm rolling my eyes). All it takes for a BPD to be triggered is something so small; mountains out of molehills and I've said that since day 1 to my SO. I do not think it sunk in.  So here is a relation: My SO always said I need to change, it was his outcry. I needed to change me so he would stop being triggered is what I really heard. Honestly with covid, I've noticed he has gotten worse; too much time on hands and over thinking his entire life. I'm curious, Did you find your SO having bad memory problems of things you did together in the past and would complain you never did anything with them?