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Author Topic: Was I abused as a child  (Read 1233 times)
dindin
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« on: September 15, 2020, 02:23:02 AM »

Elsewhere in the forum I wrote about my struggles with an ex BPD partner and my breakup. Through therapy and some heavy introspection I came to realise my own narcissistic tendencies and crippling codependency, that blew out of their normal disfunction into really bad stuff during a romantic r/s with a cluster B personality type.

And as the focus shifts from my partner, I am left with a lot of work concerning my childhood. For the last decade almost I haven't had a single memory or emotion concerning my formative years. And now it came pouring out.

Now I know absolutely clearly that my dad had major narcissistic traits and I'd bet my money on him being somehwere diagnosible on the B cluster spectrum. I need some support and advice, because I cannot really discuss it with my siblings, as they downplay what happened to such an extent that it's hard for me.

Examples of what I experienced:
- Dad would laugh at our interests, pretty much mocked them with other adults. But only the ones who were not his own.
- Corporal punishment
- Dad would complain how stupid we are whenever we liked something popular. Like a factoid magazine, popular music, etc. He'd say: "if you want to be idiots, than good look with that"
- Often they'd call us useless and helpless.
- They'd often complained how much they regret spending time to teach us skills, because we were less talented than our sister.
- A lot of anger. For example, with a hair trigger to his violence, if we were talking a bit louder at night, instead of telling us to be quiet, he'd march right in like an ogre and destroy our stuff in a fit of rage.
- Both mom and dad would invalidate our capabilities. Whatever I did, even as an adult, was done "the wrong way." Even stuff that doesn't have to do with them.
- Mom often would tell us that the "core" of our problems was because we were "spiritually corrupt".
- Mom would switch emotions between depression and helicopter parenting, in a span of a day or so.
- Mom was often on antidepressants, and I remember her being extremely zoned out or just emotionally not there, which was very lonely. And if she was available, she was concerned more about helping her own family of alcoholics and disadvantaged people. She felt very responsible for the suffering of her mom, who would be a completely helpless, unintelligent lady at the mercy of her abusive and alcoholic husband and son.
- For many years due to financial problems we lived with my mother's family. Which as I wrote consisted of an alcoholic uncle, prone-to-anger ex-alcoholic grandpa, and a helpless grandma that needed to be protected. We were in the middle of a lot of drama.
- Both my parents would convince me that the world is completely corrupt and that I was an idiot for trusting anyone. Every business endavour is crooked, every person is going to break your trust. Every pursit "is vanity". And if you argued anything other, you'd be left to feel an idiot.
- Criticism of anyone in a highly disfunctional family (a lot of alcoholics among my uncles) was unallowed. Whenever I told that us socializing with a pathological narcissistic uncle drunk beyond human capabilities made me uncomfortable and that he is a bad person was met with: "but look at yourself, you are a horrible person because why are you so angry about it"?

This list could be a lot longer, and I don't know if it is wise trying to remember all this stuff. Just looking for some support, advice, and if anyone can relate.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2020, 02:30:55 AM by dindin » Logged
JNChell
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« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2020, 02:32:53 AM »

Man, I’ve been going at you for a bit to get you on this board. Just saying welcome. Be patient. Better minds than mine will be along. I’m glad you showed up. I’ll talk with you if you want. I just figured that I was on your ass on the other board and I’m not gonna be all over you on this one. Your call.
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dindin
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« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2020, 02:36:50 AM »

Man, I’ve been going at you for a bit to get you on this board. Just saying welcome. Be patient. Better minds than mine will be along. I’m glad you showed up. I’ll talk with you if you want. I just figured that I was on your ass on the other board and I’m not gonna be all over you on this one. Your call.

Haha, thanks. Sure come and give your opinion here, I'll pause my writing about my ex BPD partner on that topic, as I think it's better to focus on myself, since I gained enough understanding of BPD to have a sense of "some" closure. So please do, and thanks for your invitation here Smiling (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2020, 02:51:45 AM »

If you feel like you were abused as a child/adolescent, you most likely were. What was the corporal punishment like? I understand the verbal and emotional stuff. How badly were you beaten? He would break your things in a fit of rage? I read it all. I don’t know what to say about it other than I’m sorry man. It’s really good that you’re talking about it and working on it. The real trouble comes to people that stuff experiences like this. You’re not doing that. How did it feel when your dad broke your’s and your siblings things? Maybe that’s a stupid question, but maybe the answer might take a little pressure off of your shoulders.
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dindin
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« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2020, 03:10:24 AM »

I was never "beaten" like in punched or shoved. But especially when I was younger there was the threat of the belt - like being struck with a leather belt on your bottom, and if you didnt sit still you were made feel responsible for the belt to end up hitting other parts of the body. Up until now I rationalized it saying it was back in the days. But it wasn't as much about the physical pain of it, but the feeling of utter helplessness. It was pretty scary. Oh, now that I'm writing it, I remember once I was beaten with a cable by my grandpa, with whom we lived when my parents weren't home, who thought I was misbehaving. I found that especially confusing, because it made me realise that other adults than my dad can use force against me. I remember crying: "You cannot hit me, you're not my dad" I felt extremely lost after that, mistrusting adults on the street.

When my dad destroyed our stuff it was extremely scary. I remember I wanted to cry, but couldn't for the fear that this could upset him again. I remember from then on I tried to be as quiet and not let my presence be known in the house, because why risk it again
« Last Edit: September 15, 2020, 03:18:09 AM by dindin » Logged
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« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2020, 03:53:37 PM »

I’ve got a golf ball in my throat after reading that. Thanks for sharing that. Stuff like that takes courage. I relate to having to try to remain still. My mom used a wooden paddle. She’d strip me down to my bare ass and hold my ankles with one hand. Funny as it is, that memory gave me an age range. She would hit my bare ass in a rage. Swinging and screaming. I’d put my hands in the way and she would bloody my knuckles. These people are  Cursing - won't cause site restrictions at Starbucks (click to insert in post)’d in the head.

You were right to be confused. Down the line, as an adult, we accept behaviors that mess with us.

It was not okay for your dad to do that. The most important part is that you were so scared that you had to restrain your emotions. Dad’s should be able to field emotions from their Sons. Not cause them in that way. Know what I mean?
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« Reply #6 on: September 16, 2020, 05:07:58 AM »

It was not okay for your dad to do that. The most important part is that you were so scared that you had to restrain your emotions. Dad’s should be able to field emotions from their Sons. Not cause them in that way. Know what I mean?

Thanks for your response. I know what you mean. I remember years ago I had the first emotional flashback that made me realize that something was amiss in my childhood. I remember watching some talent show where someone's dad came up after the show and said: "I'm proud of you"

When I saw that I felt uncontrollable sadness and jealousy: I have never heard that in my life.

I really don't know what to do with all this information. I bottled it up for so long, and it feels good to give myself some sympathy for what I was through. But I still feel like I cannot be angry or even forgiving if I am just as bad as they were, I mean in relationships I played the same tricks and if I had children... I'd be exactly the same. I know that - invalidating, selfish, threathened, angry... So I am just as **** up as they were. Listing all this stuff just makes me feel worse, because I feel like I'm listing all the sins I've ever had.

I mean I can give myself some credit for maybe trying to look outside. But at the end of the day I did the same damage they did. And if abuse or narcissistic injury runs in families, and I was doomed to repeat it, I am no better or worse than all the **** in my life, because they could be using the same excuse (I know my dad's parents were ever worse than he was to me). So how can I set myself free and find forgiveness for myself, and for others?
« Last Edit: September 16, 2020, 05:16:30 AM by dindin » Logged
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« Reply #7 on: September 16, 2020, 07:16:21 AM »

I also oscilate between this thinking that I showed above and a more rational approach: that I might have some fleas from narcissistic abuse but I am not inherently bad. But it's hard to come to terms with the destruction that I caused thanks to that programming...

Is it something that victims of abuse struggle with? Identyfing with the abuse itself?
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« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2020, 05:07:57 PM »

You know what?  :cursing:this. I had my ass handed to me constantly. They kicked the PLEASE READ out of me. It was crazy. Maybe we can start a conversation now.
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« Reply #9 on: September 16, 2020, 05:16:07 PM »

Yes. The fleas are a struggle. How couldn’t they be? We learn everything from our parents.
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« Reply #10 on: September 16, 2020, 11:04:22 PM »

I tell S5 that I’m proud of him at every opportunity. Like you, I can’t remember hearing it with any validity. When S5 was born I made a vow that he would not go through what I did. It’s been quite the learning process, but I wouldn’t trade it. If my journey brought me to that little boy, so be it. He’s good and at the same time I’ve seen the good in myself. You know, I remember telling my Sis that S5’s mom and I were having a baby. She told me that being a dad will be the best thing that I ever do. I didn’t really understand what she was saying then. I do now. As soon as the courts require S5’s mom to allow me access to our Son, I can get on with being a dad again. Until then I’ll continue to send him his weekly care package and try to remain sane. Lol

I don’t know you, but I’m proud of you for showing up here and letting your story be heard. That takes a lot of courage. I’m proud of you for pushing against the painful stuff that could’ve easily taken you down a very bad path. You’re doing well and you should recognize that. Everything is going to be alright because you’re taking the steps to ensure that. Good job.
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« Reply #11 on: September 17, 2020, 12:35:59 AM »

i think at a minimum, its fair to say you had a childhood (and adulthood) that involved a lot of invalidation, a dad with a hair trigger, and a difficult mother.

i had a lot of that too. my dad didnt have bpd, but he was definitely prone to disproportionate anger, and partly as a result, anger, whether from others, or in myself, makes me anxious to this day.

Excerpt
When I saw that I felt uncontrollable sadness and jealousy: I have never heard that in my life.

im proud of you that you have the guts and conviction to face these things, to ask these questions, about others, and about yourself. i know from experience how difficult it can be; it can be difficult even if youre willing!

Excerpt
I really don't know what to do with all this information. I bottled it up for so long, and it feels good to give myself some sympathy for what I was through. But I still feel like I cannot be angry or even forgiving if I am just as bad as they were, I mean in relationships I played the same tricks and if I had children... I'd be exactly the same. I know that - invalidating, selfish, threathened, angry... So I am just as **** up as they were. Listing all this stuff just makes me feel worse, because I feel like I'm listing all the sins I've ever had.

I mean I can give myself some credit for maybe trying to look outside. But at the end of the day I did the same damage they did. And if abuse or narcissistic injury runs in families, and I was doomed to repeat it, I am no better or worse than all the **** in my life, because they could be using the same excuse (I know my dad's parents were ever worse than he was to me). So how can I set myself free and find forgiveness for myself, and for others?

it probably also makes you feel worse because you may feel like you are betraying your parents in talking about these things. thats one of the biggest obstacles. our parents were our earliest role models, our sense of normalcy, our authority.

we all, at a certain age (ideally at least) realize our parents were not perfect, and we question that/those model(s). its frightening, and even more so if you had overbearing parents. but it isnt just that it feels like betrayal toward them. its a little bit like learning that the sky is actually green, or learning how to swim. its an enormous part of your very identity.

questioning it, challenging it, just like questioning and challenging any other part of our belief systems, is a necessary part of becoming our true selves, independent of our parents, and individuating.

i dont mean to minimize your unique experience when i say we all have baggage that we have to shed in order to better relate, and get along with others. we all have blinders. we all are prone to manipulating others to meet our needs. virtually everything youre reading about, and asking about, is something that we all, as human beings struggle with, some less, some more.

how can you set yourself free? keep doing the work. to be able to examine oneself in a critical light is a gift that not everyone has. work, perhaps, to do it in a way that is less judgmental, and more objective. you are, to an extent, pathologizing some relatively normal things about yourself. when i was in high school, i was the king of over pursuing, of wearing my heart on my sleeve, and it turned off pretty much every healthy connection i had a shot at. all of that is fully within my control, not something im cursed with. i am, or can be, kind of a needy guy, highly sensitive, especially to rejection, and that will always be true, but how i cope with it is entirely changeable. how we cope is learned, and can be unlearned, its not the same as who we are.
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« Reply #12 on: September 17, 2020, 12:59:15 AM »

or, you bring up a good point. Fathers. The anger that you felt from him caused negative feelings. It’s very hard to be a boy without a real dad in the mix. There are solid stats on that.

In your opinion, was your dad overly angry because of your mom, or did he have underlying stuff?

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« Reply #13 on: September 17, 2020, 02:28:58 AM »

or, you bring up a good point. Fathers. The anger that you felt from him caused negative feelings. It’s very hard to be a boy without a real dad in the mix. There are solid stats on that.

In your opinion, was your dad overly angry because of your mom, or did he have underlying stuff?

He was so angry he once threathened murdering someone with an axe, a family member, because they had a major disagreement. And that wasn't so long ago, these were all adults!

I think I might know why he was so angry.

At least from what I know his parents were even worse than him. My grandma, whom I remember very well, was extremely sefl-centered and critical, she questioned every choice my dad made, even the choice of his wife, she called my mom garbage due to class differences. And his dad, my grandpa, was even more brutish and invalidating than him.

once removed: Thank you so much for your post. The idea of guilt about betrayal is very interesting. Basically I felt everything I did outside of home, even as an adult, was filled with guilt. My T says I internalized so much of the critical voice that I try to "kill" everyday responses and normal human qualities for which I was shamed as a kid and in romantic r/s. But how can you overcome it?

Thanks a lot for your support.
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« Reply #14 on: September 21, 2020, 08:38:12 AM »

Hi dindin

I also learned a lot when exploring this and going back another generation for insight.

To answer directly, my view is that you clearly went through abuse.
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« Reply #15 on: September 21, 2020, 05:45:19 PM »

dindin, do you think that your curiosities have manifested themselves into answers for you? Venting about as much of it that you want to helps. Do want to analyze it a little more, or get some pressure off your shoulders. Aka get pissed off about it and vent? Either way, we have your back.
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« Reply #16 on: September 21, 2020, 06:42:31 PM »

Hi dindin,

I think you are making some important discoveries here regarding your background and family dynamics/history. I would agree with Cromwell and tell you directly that yes, I think you did suffer abuse as a child.

One thing that can help you determine this is the Adverse Childhood Experience assessment.

Adverse Childhood Experience Test

Not everyone who scores points on this test goes on to develop Complex Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, but many do, and regardless, anyone who went through even one of these scenarios as a child will be affected in some way as an adult, particularly in relationships.

Here is another link to a guide we use here on the PSI board. It's our Survivor to Thriver guide and it may give you a little clarity about what stage you are currently in and how you are feeling about it:

Survivor to Thriver Guide
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« Reply #17 on: September 27, 2020, 09:02:27 AM »

I Am Redeemed

Thank you so much for these materials. On that ACE test I got a 4, and that is with extremely conservative answers, and it is scary how the rest of the correlations work out: smoking, depression, etc.

When it comes to the Survivor to Thriver Guide, I'd place myself somewhere in the beginning stages of the mourning subsection. Only recently in therapy was I able to even think of an idea that I have a host of faulty beliefs. So it's really fresh.

JNChell

Yes, thanks for asking. There are some answers. Like I said I recognised a lot of my negative self talk as "not mine". And tackling them head on as such is really a game changer. But there is a lot of work to do. I am no longer confused whether I was abused or not, I defenitely was. Even my anger subsided a bit, now trying to make sense of how to proceed.

Also all of this thinking about abuse and childhood had tremendous effect in me detaching from my failed relationship with a bpd partner. It's like the more I focus on myself and the reasons for my shame and rs patterns, it takes the sting off from that given relationship. I don't know if it makes any sense. But I am at a point where no contact is no longer something that requires any effort. And rumminations went down by 90% at least. I don't think I'd manage to get there so quickly without the focus being shifted to the core issues.

Really appreciate your comment guys. Could you share any stories or reflections on how you proceeded in the face of such revelations?
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« Reply #18 on: September 27, 2020, 02:16:14 PM »

Like I said I recognised a lot of my negative self talk as "not mine". And tackling them head on as such is really a game changer.

That’s the inner critic that was instilled in us as children. You’re right, it’s not our voice. I’m very bad about calling myself names or putting myself down internally when I make a mistake. For a while I was very on top of recognizing it and calling myself out and telling myself that this has been programmed into my young brain and to knock it off. It’s a weird thing to have to do, but it works when I’m on top of my game. I’m not always on top of my game, though. Frustrated/Unfortunate (click to insert in post)

I don't know if it makes any sense.

It makes perfect sense. I wish that I had your wherewithal and sense. I have relentlessly went after S5’s mom with facts of what went down and demanding answers from her. By doing so, I’ve caused myself some problems.

I don’t really have any relevant stories, but I will say that it looks like you’re doing a really good job. Be proud of yourself. Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

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« Reply #19 on: September 27, 2020, 04:42:08 PM »

 What do you want to talk about?
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« Reply #20 on: September 28, 2020, 02:45:59 AM »

I really would like to discuss the Survivors Guide that I Am Redeemed posted.

There is a step called: I can make necessary changes in my behavior and relationships at home and work:
Excerpt
HEALING [Step 17]: This step challenges you to learn new interpersonal skills to replace old, maladaptive ways of relating. Like many survivors, you may never have learned these basic skills that are normally taught in a well-functioning, healthy family. As a result, your relationships may be suffering. In order to create more fulfilling relationships at home, you may need to develop some additional skills in the more personal realms of parenting, sexuality and intimacy. In addition, you may still be playing catch-up when trying to relate to others in competitive or even cooperative situations at work. This may result in discomfort, stress, poor work evaluations and even failure to achieve desired promotions or goals.

I was wondering how one can work on these: intimacy and rs skill while one is completely alone?
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« Reply #21 on: September 28, 2020, 04:06:29 PM »

Let’s take a half step back and look at this healing step. It won’t be achieved by simply putting it on the fridge with a magnet. This takes work.

IMHO, this requires a lot of reading, research and observations. You’re already doing the reading and research. The observations can be done anytime that you’re in public. Simply watch how people act. Don’t overthink it and keep an open mind. Don’t judge, just pay attention to how you might feel when an individual verbally abuses a cashier. How a mom treats her kids at a grocery store. Stuff like that. Get in tune with your intuition.

From there, you can begin to build a new inner strength that only belongs to you. You can share it with whoever you choose, but it’s your’s and can be taken back whenever you choose. This is where you’re living through your values and virtues which is a very important place to arrive at with yourself.
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« Reply #22 on: September 29, 2020, 03:56:52 AM »

There is a step called: I can make necessary changes in my behavior and relationships at home and work:
I was wondering how one can work on these: intimacy and rs skill while one is completely alone?

ideally, one should never be completely alone. we, as human beings, are hard wired for connection to others. and youre going to have to have connection to others in order to build, and test the skills youre seeking to develop. it requires not only trial and error, but reassessment, through the new lens you have, but through the lens you will expand over time.

the short version is that you can work on intimacy and relationship skills with anyone - it doesnt necessitate being in a romantic relationship. you can even do it here.
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« Reply #23 on: September 29, 2020, 05:00:12 PM »

once removed is spot on. Much of this is explored and achieved in our friendships and the people that we eventually choose to keep close to us, and sometimes the people that we no longer want around us. or is also very right on allowing ourselves to be alone. That doesn’t mean romance, it means community and friendship. My best friend has been great towards me lately. I’m in a custody situation with S5’s mom. I haven’t seen him since mid-July. My bf doesn’t let me spend a weekend alone. I’m over there throughout this process.

Who is constant in your life and how can they help? Are you truly alone with no one to talk to or engage?

Are you speaking of intimacy by sexual context?
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dindin
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« Reply #24 on: September 30, 2020, 04:52:11 PM »

Are you speaking of intimacy by sexual context?

Yeah, my interest in this context was always linked to the infatuation and "high". Especially after an argument or make up stuff. So I guess also this was affected by this whole disfunction.

Who is constant in your life and how can they help? Are you truly alone with no one to talk to or engage?

It's really, really hard for me right now in this context. I recognise most of my friends as being a little toxic. I mean how many conversations can I have about their thoughts of suicide. It's not like they are gonna do it, we've been having the same talk for 12 years already. If I try to share anything from my end, they end up one-upping me in terms of sorrow and their failed therapy... And another half of my friends are diagnosed cluster B, they're fun and energetic, but I am a little alergic to that at the moment. So I am pretty much alone in terms of friends.

And when it comes to family, they cannot accept me not wanting anything to do with my parents. They don't understand. So also alone on that front.

I talked with my therapist, and apart from all the things I mentioned, memories came back of quite deliberate physical abandonment that happened to me in childhood. And this is not only taboo to talk to in my family, but it's quite literally switched as something positive! It's quite hard to process how much I suffered as a kid, and apart from here and my T, no one can understand or even listen to it.

As much as I make good progress in therapy and detachment from ex with BPD, I really miss having a meaningful connection to anyone.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2020, 04:58:51 PM by dindin » Logged
JNChell
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« Reply #25 on: September 30, 2020, 06:36:43 PM »

I’ve been where you are. Pruning people. It comes with the territory, though. It’s not just intimate partners, it’s a lot of people in our circle. A lot of dickheads are no longer in my circle. At one time, they were close. I was simply mistaken. It’s all fine, but a bad upbringing will set you up for bad things.
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« Reply #26 on: October 01, 2020, 06:14:28 AM »

And as the focus shifts from my partner, I am left with a lot of work concerning my childhood. For the last decade almost I haven't had a single memory or emotion concerning my formative years. And now it came pouring out.

This stood out to me. I didn't follow your relationship posts, but being invested in someone else is sometimes a way we soothe ourselves and distract our focus from uncomfortable feelings. Tuning things out /forgetting is a way children cope with family dysfunction. It's survival then. But later, it might keep us in disfunctional relationships as we can tune out our own feelings there too.

Without the drama and the focus on your relationship, you are now able to begin to recognize your feelings and memories. It's not easy but this is a chance to work through them,

But this is an opportunity to work through this and learn better relationship skills, Being single gives you the chance to do this, to work through the feelings of the break up and old family emotions. It's not comfortable now but it's worth putting effort into yourself now.
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JNChell
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« Reply #27 on: October 01, 2020, 03:47:00 PM »

Notwendy is right. And so are you. Don’t push the feelings and memories aside that are coming at you. It comes sooner or later for people that have experienced these things. Embrace it and work through it. That’s the only healthy “out”. Storing that stuff and trying to bury it in your mind is a very bad idea.
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dindin
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« Reply #28 on: October 02, 2020, 04:55:01 AM »

Thanks everybody for your advice.

I am trying to bring those memories and feel the emotions that come with them. But I found out I have some sort of amnesia when it comes to childhood. I just don't remember much. Has anyone of you ever felt like this? What helps?
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« Reply #29 on: October 02, 2020, 07:29:26 AM »

Yes. I was surprised that a sibling remembers some events from our childhood- not all bad ones- some are good, that I can not remember.

I had one vague memory come back. I thought it might have been a dream. It was very vague. Then, several relatives comfirmed it so it was a memory of a real event.

My mother's behavior was considered to be a family secret. Whatever she did, the next day when she wasn't in a rage, she pretended nothing happened. If we asked about it, we would be met with criticism or punishment, or she would blame it on me. She didn't take accountability for her behavior.

I think the result is that I was taught to minimize it, "it wasn't that bad". This was reinforced by relatives who, if we did say anything, didn't believe us because they didn't see it. She can hold it together outside of the family for brief amounts of time. Then they would day " it can't be that bad, look at how you kids turned out". Yes, we did well in school but it was a comfortable place for me. I liked school, and my friends. Home was different.

But it did show up as not paying attention in school. I don't have ADHD but in ways it looked like that. I would "tune out" and not pay attention. I think this is why I don't remember some events. I tuned them out. This is one way a child copes.

You can't force the memories and feelings but if you experience one, it's an opportunity to work it out, process it. There isn't a time line for this. The key is that you are not currently in a co-dependent role. Co-dependency is a way to manage our own uncomfortable feelings by focusing on someone else. What helps is to work on this. Now you have the chance to not be distracted. Ironically this is a time when people tend to jump into a new relationship. I have heard/read advice to not do this.

It is possible to do this work in a relationship- it doesn't require leaving one. However, if someone is single, the advice is to do some personal work before starting a new one.


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