An update

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

It’s been a few weeks since I posted so I felt like sharing a little.

I found an online support group much like this one but for AA and Al-Anon. It’s been very helpful to me as I explore that aspect of my situation. Their perspectives (sometimes for recovering alcoholics) have been eye-opening at times. Lots of reinforcement about things I learned here.

I did confront H about the hidden alcohol. He hedged about it but when it was clear I knew for sure, he deflected, got defensive, etc. I expected that.

Last week he went to SS’s baseball practice (not our week but the coach said SS was having problems) then picked up our dinner. Texting was normal. But I could tell he was off when he got home. He had asked me to have a pen and paper ready for him and he immediately started writing. It was a confession that he had had a beer at the restaurant, was giving me his keys and wallet and wanted me to leave if he made me feel uncomfortable at any time.

I had mixed feelings. Was glad he told me, but not happy he drank and drove (or drank at all). And I didn’t really need his permission to leave. He was on heightened emotion and slurred a bit so, no, driving wasn’t smart. He knew I wasn’t fully happy and got upset that he’d done the right thing and still “got in trouble.” I told him I was glad he’d told me rather than hiding.

Anyway, it’s hard to distinguish what’s alcohol and what’s potential BPD.

He’s still struggling with the job situation. I can understand his frustration. He still gives mixed signals and info. He still rants about my parents’ friend and her husband. Yet when he’s upset, he’ll admit that he yelled at some people and screwed up. My guess? The new pastor wanted to eliminate H’s position (it’s a pattern for him) but H had been troublesome enough that it happened earlier and the personnel committee wasn’t going to push back. H feels ashamed. As he admitted. So he deflects blame. It’s hard to get on the “these people are awful” bandwagon.

He still has big issues with my parents being friends with them. They’ve been sympathetic and supportive in what I feel is a healthy way.

We’ve had two family birthday gatherings that H has been supportive of attending but he gets upset after because no one spoke to him (they did) or my parents mentioned someone H hates (before I had alerted them of some raw feelings).

So, basically more of the same. From day to day I never know what to think.

But I have picked up some creative writing projects again and am using apps to brush up my German and learn Italian (I love languages). And I’m detaching from his emotions better. Plus, I’ve been getting rave performance reviews at my new job. So, some progress at least for me!

Hugs and thanks to you all for all you do!

[Ozzie101]

It’s been a few weeks since I posted so I felt like sharing a little.

I found an online support group much like this one but for AA and Al-Anon. It’s been very helpful to me as I explore that aspect of my situation. Their perspectives (sometimes for recovering alcoholics) have been eye-opening at times. Lots of reinforcement about things I learned here.

I did confront H about the hidden alcohol. He hedged about it but when it was clear I knew for sure, he deflected, got defensive, etc. I expected that.

Last week he went to SS’s baseball practice (not our week but the coach said SS was having problems) then picked up our dinner. Texting was normal. But I could tell he was off when he got home. He had asked me to have a pen and paper ready for him and he immediately started writing. It was a confession that he had had a beer at the restaurant, was giving me his keys and wallet and wanted me to leave if he made me feel uncomfortable at any time.

I had mixed feelings. Was glad he told me, but not happy he drank and drove (or drank at all). And I didn’t really need his permission to leave. He was on heightened emotion and slurred a bit so, no, driving wasn’t smart. He knew I wasn’t fully happy and got upset that he’d done the right thing and still “got in trouble.” I told him I was glad he’d told me rather than hiding.

Anyway, it’s hard to distinguish what’s alcohol and what’s potential BPD.

He’s still struggling with the job situation. I can understand his frustration. He still gives mixed signals and info. He still rants about my parents’ friend and her husband. Yet when he’s upset, he’ll admit that he yelled at some people and screwed up. My guess? The new pastor wanted to eliminate H’s position (it’s a pattern for him) but H had been troublesome enough that it happened earlier and the personnel committee wasn’t going to push back. H feels ashamed. As he admitted. So he deflects blame. It’s hard to get on the “these people are awful” bandwagon.

He still has big issues with my parents being friends with them. They’ve been sympathetic and supportive in what I feel is a healthy way.

We’ve had two family birthday gatherings that H has been supportive of attending but he gets upset after because no one spoke to him (they did) or my parents mentioned someone H hates (before I had alerted them of some raw feelings).

So, basically more of the same. From day to day I never know what to think.

But I have picked up some creative writing projects again and am using apps to brush up my German and learn Italian (I love languages). And I’m detaching from his emotions better. Plus, I’ve been getting rave performance reviews at my new job. So, some progress at least for me!

Hugs and thanks to you all for all you do!

[formflier]

Anyway, it’s hard to distinguish what’s alcohol and what’s potential BPD.
 

For sure. 

Based on what you are learning, is there any reason to try and pick them apart?  (there may be...)

I think the "written confession" is a good thing...a sign he is stumbling towards something better.

Is it time to thank him for the letter and ask how he is going to engage with the medical community on this issue?

Seems like there are lots of things on the plate he is supposed to be talking to docs about (or has said he would)..like weight gain.

Well...if he isn't eating but consuming lots of calories from booze...um...there you go.

Glad you checked in...

Best,

FF

[Ozzie101]

I reenforced the letter several times, thanking him for telling me. My AlAnon connections said it’s partly good but partly a warning sign that he’s trying to manipulate and avoid responsibility. Do what he wants, then mitigate consequences. I don’t know.

I plan to ask about the drinking thing again tonight during our regularly scheduled talk. How he responds will depend on his mood. Sometimes he’s open and agreeable. Sometimes he just gets frustrated and defensive. Earlier this week he was exasperated and asked if I could just stop talking about his drinking. (I don’t think I’ve brought it up much at all, but perception is everything.) He has a dysreg Sunday evening and I suspected there had been drinking again, given the huge and sudden mood change from when he left the house for practice and when we were back together two hours later. He ignored the new safe word we’d set and refused to follow what we’d agreed on. Said the next day he wanted us to write them down.

The doctor thing is tricky right now. With him out of work and on a temporary insurance plan, he’ll likely use that (and saving money) as an excuse. I will still try.

[formflier]

Like I said...it's "stumbling" toward something.

Most likely he is aware on many levels it needs to be controlled or ended.

On another level that terrifies him.

Best,

FF

[Ozzie101]

Good point! He is aware there’s a problem. He’s admitted it to me and his doctor. But, yeah, it probably scares him. Just as he’s terrified I’ll leave.

Until he’s ready, willing and able to really address it and get help, there’s little I can do but encourage him and protect myself. I guess at some point the question will become “How long am I willing to wait for change?”

I’m not there yet. But it is something that crosses my mind. I don’t want to leave or give up. But I also don’t want status quo (or worse) for the next 40 years. So for now I’m focusing on myself and making sure I’m not enabling and or condoning certain behaviors. I can’t make him change, but I can draw boundaries and stand firm.

[stolencrumbs]

My AlAnon connections said it’s partly good but partly a warning sign that he’s trying to manipulate and avoid responsibility. Do what he wants, then mitigate consequences. I don’t know.

This was my thought, or close to it. It makes me wonder if he confessed to a lesser sin (one beer) to cover up a greater sin (more heavy secret drinking.) Obviously I have no idea, but it has always struck me in your posts how little alcohol it appears to take your H to have noticeable changes in his behavior, speech, etc. It could be combining with other medications in weird ways that impair him more, but in general, one beer should not really have any particularly noticeable impact on a normal-sized man. He would still be well within acceptable BAC range for driving. So that you notice slurred speech and such seems like a red flag to me. Probably no good way to find this out, and there's probably not much more to do other than what you're doing, but the noticeable physical changes from such little amounts of alcohol seem "off" to me. 

[Cat Familiar]

I agree with stolencrumbs. My husband, who also has alcohol abuse issues, will minimize how much he drinks. "One glass of wine" can mean one bottle.

[formflier]

I agree with stolencrumbs. My husband, who also has alcohol abuse issues, will minimize how much he drinks. "One glass of wine" can mean one bottle.

Right...that you can pick up on it, means it is MUCH more than he says. 

His tolerance is so high that he should have no perceptible result from "1" or even a few.

My one caveat would be if he has booze mixing with a drug or some other illicit drug.  Does he take many prescriptions?

Best,

FF

[AskingWhy]

Substance abuse is a big part of BPD.  It can be alcohol, drugs but other maladaptive compulsions.

In all things, keep yourself safe.  DUIs can destroy a family, especially if there is an accident, property damage or personal injury, or a death.  My uBPD H, although not an alcoholic, like to drink to excess on occasion (though recently only at home, thankfully) and I think he does it to dull the pain of BPD.

[Ozzie101]

He takes Wellbutrin, Topamax, acid reflux and vitamins. He has been told these can interact badly with alcohol. However, he’s been on these meds for about two years and I’ve seen him drink a glass or two or an old fashioned since those started and not be affected much if at all. Now, his big dysregulations starting a couple of years ago did have alcohol involved. But there were plenty of times there was no issue when he drank.

That’s why I suspect he’s drinking more in secret or eating less or leaning on it more as a crutch or some combination.

He denies any problems unless he’s mid-dysreg. He insists he’s fine and feels fine and normal after a beer or wine. But I swear, I can actually see/hear him trying to focus enough to think. And his emotions are definitely heightened.

[formflier]

  However, he’s been on these meds for about two years and I’ve seen him drink a glass or two or an old fashioned since those started and not be affected much if at all. 

And I recall you saying similar things for a while now.  Things that made me go...oh wow, when he slurs he is really in the bag.

In addition to medicine, I suppose there could be some other weird health conditions that interact poorly with booze.

However, the overwhelming evidence that you have personally experienced is that he is knocking down lots of booze.  Lots.

 

Best,

FF

[stolencrumbs]

He takes Wellbutrin, Topamax, acid reflux and vitamins. He has been told these can interact badly with alcohol. However, he’s been on these meds for about two years and I’ve seen him drink a glass or two or an old fashioned since those started and not be affected much if at all. Now, his big dysregulations starting a couple of years ago did have alcohol involved. But there were plenty of times there was no issue when he drank.

That’s why I suspect he’s drinking more in secret or eating less or leaning on it more as a crutch or some combination.

He denies any problems unless he’s mid-dysreg. He insists he’s fine and feels fine and normal after a beer or wine. But I swear, I can actually see/hear him trying to focus enough to think. And his emotions are definitely heightened.

My wife was prescribed topamax about 15 years ago for depression. It was awful, and one of the more distinct side-effects was that it noticeably slowed down her thinking and impacted her ability to find the right words. I don't know how it interacts with alcohol, but that medicine scares me, especially with its off-label uses. My W stayed on it way longer than she should have because it also made her lose weight, and she didn't want to give that up. It wasn't until we moved and she got a new doctor who refused to continue prescribing it that she got off of it. I don't know if you see any correlation with some of your H's behaviors and starting topamax, but it's something to think about it. My wife was noticeably "different" when she was on it.

[Ray2017]

Hi Ozzie,  I'm so glad you posted an update.  I spend a lot of time wondering about the different people I've "met" here. 

Not to pile on, but I do have a history in my family with alcoholism.  My dad struggled with alcohol for about 5 years when I was a pre-teen.  He was one of the success stories, through AA and therapy he successfully battled his addiction and was sober from the time I was 13ish until he died about 6 weeks ago.  As I kid I became incredibly aware and I could tell you, almost to an ounce, how much he had been drinking.  I may have been able to see a slight difference after 2 glasses of wine, but it was a LOT of the hard stuff before he'd start slurring and having trouble communicating.  Additionally, my H has been on just about every psychiatric med there is over the past 12 years, and he doesn't limit his drinking very much (2-3 beers or drinks each night, over the course of 4-5 hours) in my opinion.  I NEVER notice a difference in him unless he's drinking them really fast (like 3 in an hour or less) and on an empty stomach.  I'm so glad that you're seeking out AlAnon or the like.  It was offered to me as a kid, but I was too embarrassed (it was a huge family secret and I didn't want it getting out). All these years later I realized how much that period in my life affected me and it's probably a big reason I find myself on these boards talking about my uBPD spouse.  I hope you get the support you need and deserve and continue to take care of yourself.  And congrats on the successes at your work!

[Ozzie101]

Thank you for the perspective on Topamax, stolencrumbs. That could be part of it. Though his dysregulations started before he began taking it, so while it may be part of the problem, it’s likely not the cause. He also started on it because of the weight loss side effect (though it doesn’t seem to work for him).

I’m so sorry about your father, Ray.

It’s not horrible slurring, but I can tell a difference. He told me long ago that when he has too much, he gets argumentative and even belligerent. After (allegedly) one beer, he’s definitely there now.

He could be drinking more. Of course, knowing he’s been caught at certain things may just mean he gets more secretive or desperate.

[stolencrumbs]

Thank you for the perspective on Topamax, stolencrumbs. That could be part of it. Though his dysregulations started before he began taking it, so while it may be part of the problem, it’s likely not the cause. He also started on it because of the weight loss side effect (though it doesn’t seem to work for him)

Yeah, I wouldn't think it would be responsible for the dysregulations. The thing you said about seeing him struggle to think is what got me thinking. That is how I would have described my wife on topomax. There was a sort of mental fog. It wasn't always present, and the struggles with language weren't constant, but they were noticeable. I'm sure it's not just one thing, but the combination of medications, alcohol, diet, and BPD that all play off of one another. 

[Cat Familiar]

I can’t help thinking that his weight problem is likely due to secret drinking. Alcohol has a lot of calories.

[Ozzie101]

I’ve mentioned the empty calories in alcohol to him and he always blows that off — “oh, it’s not many.” Yet a salad for lunch is undoable.

[formflier]

It would seem that you are going to have to adopt a "nudge and block" type approach.

When he is open to moving forward...give him some nudges..perhaps just a smidge past where he would go on this own.

Then look for ways to keep him from backsliding or to limit how far back he goes.

Very likely will be a several forward and couple back kind of track.


Switching gears:

How has his job search activity changed over the past few weeks?  How much visibility do you have on that?

Best,

FF

[Ozzie101]

I don’t have a lot of visibility per se, but he frequently shows me job listings he’s saved to apply for and has a decent number of interviews (most by phone or Zoom and I can hear them going on). He gets down that he hasn’t had offers yet but I try to be supportive and encouraging.