GAL report: I still can't believe how the pwBPD can't see their behavior

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

So...   I've had de facto custody for the last ~18 months due to no contact order and due to some scary behavior by the ex I ended up requesting that visits be supervised a bit more than a year ago.  Stuff like suicide threats in front of the kids, psychotic episode with them, and breach of release conditions (ie: no respect for authority).  Even the cops were worried for a while.  The kids were 11 and 15 at the time.  The ex whined and whined instead of finding someone to supervise and access consisted of a weekly skype call so the kids haven't seen her in person in more than a year.   A GAL was then appointed (voice of the child) but things were delayed due to lost paperwork, covid but the report was presented today.     

The GAL made it clear that there was no parental alienation and that the kids were open.  That they wanted short visits and that they wanted them to be supervised at first.   The ex simply couldn't grasp that.  Kept asking what did she do ever wrong, why would the kids want supervised visits,  that their request did not make sense, that she wanted more time, that it had to be tomorrow, that I had alienated them, ... 

At no point in time was there a "I will respect the children's choice even if I don't agree with it and do what I can to rebuild what I have lost".  None of that.  Not even a hint of it.   Can't they realize that this is not something you can rush, that it takes time to rebuild something like that if you want it to succeed?    I have no problem with the kids wanting to spend more time with her over time, but it has to start small and it's in line with what the kids want. 

That GAL was pretty much a godsend,  there's no way we would have agreed on custody/access otherwise. 

As for the ex, let's just say that she isn't going to start a fanclub for me.  I just wish that she realized the damage she's done to the kids.   Maybe she'll eventually realize that the kids not seeing her for a year might have been a good thing for them.  The suicide thoughts the young one had are almost gone. They now spend much more time with their friends, are super open and nice, their body aches are gone (it was stress! not chronic pain!)

Onto the next battle: mediation on all other issues.  That is nowhere to be done. 

[mart555]

So...   I've had de facto custody for the last ~18 months due to no contact order and due to some scary behavior by the ex I ended up requesting that visits be supervised a bit more than a year ago.  Stuff like suicide threats in front of the kids, psychotic episode with them, and breach of release conditions (ie: no respect for authority).  Even the cops were worried for a while.  The kids were 11 and 15 at the time.  The ex whined and whined instead of finding someone to supervise and access consisted of a weekly skype call so the kids haven't seen her in person in more than a year.   A GAL was then appointed (voice of the child) but things were delayed due to lost paperwork, covid but the report was presented today.     

The GAL made it clear that there was no parental alienation and that the kids were open.  That they wanted short visits and that they wanted them to be supervised at first.   The ex simply couldn't grasp that.  Kept asking what did she do ever wrong, why would the kids want supervised visits,  that their request did not make sense, that she wanted more time, that it had to be tomorrow, that I had alienated them, ... 

At no point in time was there a "I will respect the children's choice even if I don't agree with it and do what I can to rebuild what I have lost".  None of that.  Not even a hint of it.   Can't they realize that this is not something you can rush, that it takes time to rebuild something like that if you want it to succeed?    I have no problem with the kids wanting to spend more time with her over time, but it has to start small and it's in line with what the kids want. 

That GAL was pretty much a godsend,  there's no way we would have agreed on custody/access otherwise. 

As for the ex, let's just say that she isn't going to start a fanclub for me.  I just wish that she realized the damage she's done to the kids.   Maybe she'll eventually realize that the kids not seeing her for a year might have been a good thing for them.  The suicide thoughts the young one had are almost gone. They now spend much more time with their friends, are super open and nice, their body aches are gone (it was stress! not chronic pain!)

Onto the next battle: mediation on all other issues.  That is nowhere to be done. 

[Notwendy]

I think it's a part of the disorder- a combination of the tendencies of projection and denial and to take victim perspective. These are strong defenses.

I have an elderly mother with BPD and I get the sense that she has a vague awareness that there were issues with her children, but it isn't something she could discuss or want to have people aware of.  It's not something I wish to discuss with her at this point. I have delt with it, understand it is mental illness, and to even bring it up would be hurtful to her and it wouldn't lead to a resolution.

My parents stayed together so there was no discussion of supervised visits in a divorce setting.  However, I knew I would not have my mother alone with my children.  They are older now and able to handle any situation with her but not while they were growing up and there was always another adult with them when they were around her. Although she didn't display all of her behaviors with them, I was too wary of her.

I think it would help to mainly focus on what is best for your children, regardless of her reaction.

 Your children are expressing their boundaries. IMHO, I would respect that. These are the same boundaries that protect them from getting into dysfunctional and abusive relationships as adults. Maybe one day their mother will recognize her part in this, but maybe not. However, your children do, and have asked to be protected.

While she may not like it now,  it might end up being to the benefit of her as well if she does not have the opportunity to harm their relationship further. It also brings the issues into the light and validates their feelings.

[mart555]

Thanks for the reply.

I think it would help to mainly focus on what is best for your children, regardless of her reaction.

Your children are expressing their boundaries. IMHO, I would respect that. These are the same boundaries that protect them from getting into dysfunctional and abusive relationships as adults. Maybe one day their mother will recognize her part in this, but maybe not. However, your children do, and have asked to be protected.

Yes, the kids is exactly what I am focusing on.  I don't really care if I ruffle my ex's feathers anymore.  Kids first.  And your reminder about validating their boundaries is a really good one. 

[worriedStepmom]

It sounds like the GAL was a huge help and great advocate for the kids.

I hope you're prepared that when visits start again their behavior and mental health may take a nosedive.  Continue to do what you've been doing, and document any behavior changes that you see.  Especially since you are worried that one child may be displaying BPD tendencies of his own - lots of therapy and lots of vigilance is called for right now.

Good luck.

[mart555]

I hope you're prepared that when visits start again their behavior and mental health may take a nosedive. 

Yes, it's not even a fear, it's reality.  I know part of the drill because the same thing happens with their weekly calls:  it takes them ~36 hours to be back to their selves after the call.  They'll be cranky and emotional until then.  It was terrible when they saw their mom every 2-3 days. They had no rest and were always cranky.

Good call on the recommendation to document these changes. I will.   

[zachira]

I have enormous respect for how you have supported your children and done everything to help them with the challenges with their mother with BPD. I was raised by a mother with BPD and my father enabled her. Like your children's mother, my mother was absolutely clueless about how her behaviors affected others including her children, no matter how much constructive feedback she got. You heart and focus are in the right place, being there for your children.

[mart555]

I have enormous respect for how you have supported your children and done everything to help them with the challenges with their mother with BPD. I was raised by a mother with BPD and my father enabled her. ...

My main regret is that I did not act earlier: I was an enabler for 14 years...  Better late than never and chances are she would have ended up with 50% custody if I had acted earlier.  I recall offering 50% custody for the first few months after separation and then I eventually got out of the fog. I've noticed that I definitely made a difference with the kids:  Relatives and friends have told me how much the kids have changed in the last year or two.  They are good kids. 

Hopefully I can settle that damn divorce and then just focus on dealing with the blows she'll throw at the kids on a weekly basis after..   

[zachira]

There is a steep learning curve when dealing with a high conflict personality disordered person. You have been at this long enough that you are learning how to get what is best for your children. Have you read "Splitting: Protecting Yourself While Divorcing Someone with Borderline or Narcissistic Personality Disorder"? I also recommend you look at Dr. Romani's youtube videos on narcission and her joint videos on divorce and shared custody with divorce lawyer Rebecca Zung. I know that you just want everything to be over and done with ASAP. Before you know it, your children will have aged out of the custody system, and you will no longer have to deal with the children's mother.

[mart555]

Yes, Dr Ramani, Zung, many other youtube channels and many books. I've read and followed them all.  The "6 Things To Look Out For During Court Battles With A Narcissist" from Melanie Tonia Evans describes exactly what my ex is doing. 

I'm getting used to it, but it's still annoying.  I'm looking forward to having the house and vehicle in my name only, and a piece of paper that confirms custody and access.  Realistically, I know that it likely won't happen for years so I just roll with the punches. 

I really with I had woken up 20 years ago instead of getting into that relationship!

[zachira]

You are not alone in regretting not seeing what was going on many years ago. I hear your frustration at knowing you have a long battle ahead with the divorce and joint custody for several years to come. I am in the process of dealing with my mom's estate that my BPD brother with strong narcissistic traits refuses to settle, and my narcissistic sister trying to continue to use a cottage we own together on all the holidays and times with the family there while expecting me to pay more than my share of the bills and to only use the  cottage at the worst times of the year. I know you just want to get past this. I get up every day trying to be the best person I can be for the day, spend as little time as possible doing what I have to do so I can finally go no contact with my silbings while not letting what they do rent too much space in my head. You have your children to enjoy and the way they get their mother and are setting boundaries with her is because of the kind of father you are. Can you give yourself a pat on the back?

[Notwendy]

I think this happens on its own timeline. It took me a long time to figure out the dynamics in my family of origin and also how these influenced my relationships and my marriage.

I don't know your family background but dysfunction can be intergenerational. When children grow up with it, it becomes their "normal". Then, they may not notice it as dysfunctional in an adult relationship. I knew that my BPD mother's behaviors were not normal, but enabling and co-dependency were the "normal".

What you are doing is changing these patterns for your children now- as well as in the future. You are role modeling a different behavior for them- letting them know they don't have to tolerate abusive and inappropriate behavior and also that they can stand up for themselves.

They also can see that you are a trusted adult who will stand up for them.

[MeandThee29]

I'm getting used to it, but it's still annoying.  I'm looking forward to having the house and vehicle in my name only, and a piece of paper that confirms custody and access.  Realistically, I know that it likely won't happen for years so I just roll with the punches. 

I really with I had woken up 20 years ago instead of getting into that relationship!

My divorce should have been simple -- no custody issues, no real estate, and no business interests. Nope. Everything had to be torn apart repeatedly with drama even into closeout. Sigh.

More than once I was just so frustrated and sat at my attorney's big conference table and said, "When will this end? I can't stand it."

And he said in his kindly, methodical way, "They all eventually end. I can tell you with some confidence that the vast majority of my clients go on to walk on God's green earth again."

I had a flawed picker. Back then, people really didn't understand these things like they do now. I ignored the red flags including a strong warning from a long-term family friend of his that he was rigid and controlling. That friend said that he had more confidence in me as a partner than in my ex, and that if we got into trouble down the road, it would be because of his issues. Of course my issues enabled and allowed it to flourish. So it was.

I actually don't regret it because I operated on what I knew at the time. What I do regret is not setting more boundaries and demanding better behavior all along. There would have been less damage to myself and our now adult kids.

[mart555]

I don't know your family background but dysfunction can be intergenerational.

My ex's family was definitely crazy.  Lots of schyzophrenia, likely BPD from what I know now..   my family however is the puzzling one.  Good mom, who was a teacher and school principal.  Parents divorced when I was maybe 12, father not super present (you know the classic 50% of week-ends) but no trauma.  The only thing that my sister (a social worker who ended up with narcissists many times) and I could think of is that our mom always wanted to help everyone, which is why we might have fallen into a caretaker role.  I'm definitely putting a stop to that however, my kids will hopefully not turning into caretakers, although I am worried about my youngest one that has maybe too much empathy..

[Notwendy]

Sometimes a family that "looks good" on the outside can still have some dysfunctional patterns. There doesn't have to be apparent trauma.

This can appear over generations. Not that your family was bad or seriously dysfunctional, but it's interesting that your sister also ended up in relationships with people with PD's.

It is possible that your mother's tendency to help too much is a response to family patterns in her original family. Also the divorce - and absent father.

This isn't to blame, surely your parents did the best they could with what they knew to do and also did some good things for their families. It's to become more aware of our own tendencies. When we make these changes for the better- we change the patterns.