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Author Topic: I Finally Decided To Leave...  (Read 1278 times)
mstnghu
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« on: October 14, 2020, 02:10:59 PM »

I'm not quite sure if I'm looking for advice for people who have walked in my shoes before me or if I'm looking more for support...it's probably a little of both.

I finally did it. After over 11 years of marriage and 13 years total time together, I left. It's not a decision I take lightly, but I finally decided that enough is enough. About 3 weeks ago, I talked to my parents about moving back into their house if I needed a place to stay (I'm 40, btw). We discussed all the logistics of what that would look like and they were basically on standby.

A couple days later, I fully discussed those potential plans with my wife. Things had been especially heated between us recently and I knew I couldn't be in the toxic environment any longer. We also have a 9 year old son and I'm tired of him being in that environment as well. After the initial discussion with my wife, she started being extra nice to me. This is her typical pattern though and I knew it wouldn't be real or lasting. Sure enough, it lasted about 2 weeks and we were right back into our typical fighting pattern. The fights were especially awful after that.

Friday morning we were fighting while I was getting ready for work. That's when I decided for good that I was done. I told her I'd be moving out Saturday...and I did just that. I've agreed to continue to pay all of the household expenses for now and I'm still coming over to spend time with my son and dog almost every day. I'm attempting to keep the peace as much as possible with my wife when I'm there. I've told her I'm open to meeting with a family/marriage counselor, even if only to learn how to communicate better for our son's sake.

I feel at peace with my decision. I know my wife is feeling hurt and very upset by the whole thing, but I know that I just had to leave. I can't imagine living the rest of my life this way. For now, I'm taking things a day at a time. She is mostly in denial and thinks I'll be moving back home soon. Right now, I have absolutely no intention of doing that and for the first time in a long time, I'm feeling hopeful toward a better future for not just me but my son as well.

So, that's my story for now.
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Lucky Jim
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« Reply #1 on: October 15, 2020, 02:28:40 PM »

Hey mstnghu, Yes, I've been in your shoes and admire your courage to leave.  For me it was the only way to break the cycle of drama and abuse. 

Excerpt
for the first time in a long time, I'm feeling hopeful toward a better future for not just me but my son as well.

After my BPDxW and I separated, I never seriously considered returning.  It was such a relief to be free from daily quarrels and stress.  I had lost myself in all the turmoil.  Towards the end, my T asked me if I thought I had tried everything.  I replied, Yes, I think I have.  She said, I think so, too, which was highly unusual for her to express a personal opinion.  It got my attention.

I don't want to sugarcoat it and pretend that it's been easy, because leaving involves an uphill climb and is not a straight trajectory.  Yet I enjoy blazing my own trail, however challenging, and have never looked back.

LuckyJim

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Nowisthetime1

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« Reply #2 on: October 18, 2020, 05:27:22 AM »

Mstnghu,

Hey bro congrats on looking out for yourself. That was so huge. Man I don’t know you but I’m proud of you. I filed for divorce from my BPD wife last month. We would have been married 12 years Jan 21. I’m in therapy and doing inner child work. I found out that I have co-dependant personality and experienced emotional abandonment from my parents. I tried to save my wife from experiencing what I did. She told me from the jump that she was would commit suicide and I said I’ll save you. In any event as Lucky Jim said it’s challenging going to therapy but it’s needed. Um a lot of info on this subject I found very helpful from YouTube. Specifically, a content creator by the name of AJ Majari. She had bpd and with therapy is cured from it . It took her 6-8 years I believe. But check her vids out dude as they’re very informative. Also man your son will need therapy too. Man, thank goodness you left as you are giving you and your son hope. Your wife must decide she wants to do this. You can’t help her if she doesn’t want to help herself. When you’re in a relationship with a person with BPD you do lose yourself and that’s not fair to you. Love starts at home first.
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mstnghu
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« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2020, 12:45:04 PM »

Thanks Lucky Jim and Nowisthetime1 for your support. To update the situation, today has been a week and a half away. I've still been visiting the house regularly to see my son and dog and my son has also come over to stay the night a couple times at my parents' house.

I'm finding my biggest frustration to be that my wife is being nice to me! She's trying so hard to convince me to move back home and that everything will be better. I'd actually be a lot happier if she'd just continue to be mean and difficult! I don't trust her because history has always repeated itself with her. I truly believe that life would return to our crappy normal if I moved back in and I'd be resenting her even more. Things would be so much easier if she'd just accept that we're not healthy together and we need to learn how to be healthy separately and work toward improving our own lives and moving on.

On a side note, I mainly moved out to get out from under her constant need to control me and I just found out a couple days ago that she's now tracking me! We're still on the same phone plan (which she took me off of as an authorized user a couple years ago and denied doing) and she has now added a feature to the phone plan that allows her to monitor my locations. I feel like I can never escape from her! Obviously I could get my own phone plan but if she found out about that, well you know how BPDs respond to those sorts of things...
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GaGrl
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« Reply #4 on: October 21, 2020, 01:01:56 PM »

The BPD cycles that are established will still continue -- they may differ in intensity and length, but they continue. I

As your current separation continues and you move further out of the FOG, you'll gain more insight and self-confidence on how to react to her BPD behaviors.

How is your son doing?
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"...what's past is prologue; what to come,
In yours and my discharge."
Lucky Jim
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« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2020, 01:24:32 PM »

Hey Mstnghu, I suggest you do what you need to do to keep good boundaries.  During my divorce, my BPDxW was using the transponder in my car to check on the times I was going through the highway toll.  It was a no-brainer for me to switch to cash payments at the toll!  Perhaps you need to take similar action with regard to your phone.  It's totally inappropriate for her to be tracking your movements, in my view.

Excerpt
Things would be so much easier if she'd just accept that we're not healthy together and we need to learn how to be healthy separately and work toward improving our own lives and moving on.

It might be easier but you can't control what she accepts, so I suggest you let it go and determine what is right for you, as you are doing.  Keep up the good work!

LJ
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Nowisthetime1

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« Reply #6 on: October 24, 2020, 08:16:08 PM »

Mstnghu,

GaGirl is right as the idealization / devaluation cycle will continue and only more frequently unless she gets therapy over several years. John Gunderson is an expert concerning BPD and he states with therapy consistently you’re looking at 6-16 years before the person is over this.

It’s great you are conscious of the fact things need to change. Maybe this will prompt her to get help. That’s crazy Lucky Jim being tracked.

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mstnghu
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« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2020, 02:22:20 PM »

Latest update...

It's been a little over 2 weeks now. I'm still confident that I made the right decision but some things have gotten a little harder. My wife has been legitimately sad and has practically been begging me to move back home. She insists that she's working on changing herself and that things will be better if I move back. In all honesty, I have seen some positive changes in her recently.  She's actually learning to have some self-awareness about many of her negative behaviors. I do empathize with her and it does pull at my heart strings to see her so upset.

The reality is though, I feel like it's too little too late. I had already crossed over that line where enough was enough. I just really believe that going back would put us in the exact same situation again and I'd end up being even more frustrated and resentful than I ever was. I feel like this is the opportunity to once and for all break our toxic cycle.  This whole situation would be so much easier if she came to a peaceful acceptance of that so we could move forward in a more positive way. The idea of us ever having a good relationship as a married couple just doesn't seem realistic to me.

As for how my son is coping, that's a hard one too. He's only 9 so he doesn't fully understand. He just knows that his parents fight a lot and he doesn't like it. It is hard when I go over to visit him and he blocks the front door so I won't leave. He also stays a couple nights with me at my parents' house and doesn't want to go back home afterwards. That stuff is hard but I know that ultimately, I'm making a decision that will be better for him in the long run. I can't stand the thought of him continuing to grow up in such a toxic environment.
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Vykyng

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« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2020, 04:50:24 PM »

@mstnghu

Wow. I've been following your updates and I wish I had your strength. I'm 13 years and 2 kids (11 & 7) into my marriage and I think I have finally reached my breaking point.

The constant fighting is intolerable and always blamed on me even though it is a reaction to verbal / emotional abuse which often happens in front of our kids. I spent years of "woe is me" wondering what I had done wrong and why this was happening to me, but I realize now that I enabled it through co-dependency by tying myself to the idea of what our life should be like and trying to soothe her pain and give her what she wanted to make her happy and feel better. To no avail, since it seems nothing will ever satisfy her emptiness. It feels like a trap. If I work to reconcile, she will take advantage of that as an opening to make the conflict my fault and emotionally abuse me further. If I pull away, she will feel abandoned and love bomb me to pull me back in before starting the cycle over again as bad (or worse) than before. It keeps happening and I keep falling for it. I see now that I have been trauma bonded, but my rational brain shuts down when I interact with her.

Above all, I need strength, and I envy you finding yours.  I am hoping things work out for you either way because I feel your story is so close to my own.
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Lucky Jim
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« Reply #9 on: October 27, 2020, 11:24:21 AM »

Excerpt
This whole situation would be so much easier if she came to a peaceful acceptance of that so we could move forward in a more positive way.

Hey MST,  It would be easier, but as I said I find it unlikely.  Plus, you can't control her emotions, so I think this hope is in the category of "wishful thinking."  I suggest you focus on the present situation and figuring out what is the best path for you, which is not always an easy answer.  If you get confused, I suggest you sit with your emotions and wait to let the water clear.  What are your gut feelings?

LJ
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« Reply #10 on: November 04, 2020, 09:42:04 PM »

That was the best thing you could have done!
After 2 years, he has been gone for a week. Of course I wanted him back and then I started reading all these posts and all the craziness we are going through and had to ask myself, why would I let someone treat me like that and compared to what I went through, it was a picnic compared to some of the stories I’ve read. It’s  sad because these people are really hurting and there is not a thing we can do about it. You can’t love them out of it. He was the one who left, but I feel like in some subconscious way, I may have pushed him to it. I just couldn’t be the one to leave and I knew I was just a few arguments away from breaking up. It was inevitable.I will always love him and wish him the best.
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mstnghu
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« Reply #11 on: January 04, 2021, 07:20:23 PM »

I haven't updated my story here for awhile, so I'm sorry for the delay for anybody who may have been following my updates.

My life post moving out has definitely been a roller coaster. I still go over to the house a few times a week and have even stayed overnight a handful of times. I'm really trying to uphold my boundaries with that so I don't want to make it a habit. Since moving out, the wife and I fight less overall...but I attribute that mainly to us not living together.

My biggest frustration through all of this is actually that my wife is trying very hard to be nice to me and win me back! I feel like things would've gone much easier if she just accepted that we aren't good for each other and we need to move on. Instead, she's trying as hard as she can to hang onto me. If this situation happened maybe 2-3 years ago, I probably would've given in by now and moved back home. Right now, she's really been pulling at my heart strings and working every angle to convince me I should move back. In my mind and heart, I know we will end up in the exact same spot. I just don't see us ever having a happy and stable relationship. She's insisting over and over that she's changed. Apparently she's now seeing a therapist and is a completely different person within a couple of months. It's amazing! (sarcasm).

It's also frustrating because I really have seen some changes in her behavior recently and her ability to recognize and tell me about some of nasty things she's done to me over the years. She's never had that sort of self awareness before. Despite these "changes", I still just can't see it being permanent and I feel like I already checked out of the relationship a long time ago. I'm terrified of the idea that if I moved back, everything would go right back to the old way and that I'd feel too deflated to attempt to move out again.

A few weeks ago, we also started seeing a marriage counselor. Unfortunately the wife and I have completely different goals with the therapy. She only wants to continue the therapy if we agree 100% to work on fixing the marriage and staying together. I can't commit to that because it honestly just isn't what I want. I've communicated that with her very clearly too but she is constantly trying to change how I feel. I just can't bring myself to "feel" like wanting to work on the marriage because I legitimately just don't see us having a happy future together.

So, that's where I'm at today. I'll try to update the situation more often. I'm tired of living in limbo and just want some resolution. I'm trying to be patient though.


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grumpydonut
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« Reply #12 on: January 04, 2021, 08:48:54 PM »

Mstnghu, sounds like you're in a good headspace. I agree with you re. things likely going back the way they were. From my experience, and reading dozens of accounts on this forum, those diagnosed with BPD need to be in therapy simply to get better in order for it to work. However, most only do therapy because they feel that's the only way their partner will stay / come back to them. This seems like the same pattern.
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Lucky Jim
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« Reply #13 on: January 05, 2021, 01:25:59 PM »

Excerpt
I just can't bring myself to "feel" like wanting to work on the marriage because I legitimately just don't see us having a happy future together.

Hey mstnghu, I suggest you listen to your gut feelings.  I didn't, which led to a lot of problems.

Don't let her twist your arm.  Those w/BPD often use F-O-G (fear, obligation or guilt) to manipulate the Non.  I should know, because I was highly susceptible to F-O-G.  No more.  Don't let this happen to you.  You need not obligate yourself in terms of counseling goals.  Hold your ground, as you are doing.

LJ
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mstnghu
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« Reply #14 on: January 05, 2021, 01:37:04 PM »

Mstnghu, sounds like you're in a good headspace. I agree with you re. things likely going back the way they were. From my experience, and reading dozens of accounts on this forum, those diagnosed with BPD need to be in therapy simply to get better in order for it to work. However, most only do therapy because they feel that's the only way their partner will stay / come back to them. This seems like the same pattern.

Thanks for the input Grumpy. I actually brought this issue up to the wife a few days ago. I pointed out that many, many times throughout our relationship she has pushed things too far and when she realized it she suddenly started being nice or "being good" (her own words). Then, once I let my walls down again, she went right back to  her old ways. It's been her pattern as far back as I can remember. Recently as she's been trying hard to convince me to move back home and work things out, she's been trying extra hard to convince me that she's a changed person. As much as I do feel sympathy for her, I just don't believe it to be true.
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mstnghu
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« Reply #15 on: January 05, 2021, 01:47:01 PM »

Hey mstnghu, I suggest you listen to your gut feelings.  I didn't, which led to a lot of problems.

Don't let her twist your arm.  Those w/BPD often use F-O-G (fear, obligation or guilt) to manipulate the Non.  I should know, because I was highly susceptible to F-O-G.  No more.  Don't let this happen to you.  You need not obligate yourself in terms of counseling goals.  Hold your ground, as you are doing.

LJ

Thanks for your input as well Jim. Your timing couldn't have been better. The wife and I actually have a therapy session scheduled for tonight. Both she AND HER MOM have called and texted me this morning basically telling me that therapy is a waste of time and money if my intention is not to work on getting back together. Yes, my mother in law is that involved in our business.

My mother in law left me a full 2 minute voicemail about 1/2 hour ago and wants me to call her back ASAP to explain to her what the reasoning for going to therapy is. I have a mostly good relationship with her right now, but her needing to be overly involved in me and my wife's relationship has been a major issue over the years. My wife and her both think it's completely normal and acceptable behavior for her to be so actively involved in all of our personal business and life choices. I don't. I think it's completely overbearing and suffocating.

I do feel that both of them are trying to twist my arm into making a decision...their decision. My gut is telling me that this isn't what I want. I don't see us being good together. I don't see a happy future with her. Having received those texts and the voicemail this morning, my anxiety is already heightened without even being physically around them. I'm going over to the house tonight and both of them will be there. As much as I'd just like to have a productive virtual therapy session and then be able to enjoy a peaceful dinner and spend time with my son and dog, that just never seems to happen. I'll be put on the hot seat, as I always am with them. They always end up tag-teaming against me.
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cash05458
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« Reply #16 on: January 05, 2021, 01:56:32 PM »

I am new here...but going thru my own things via saving and therein...but why should we try any longer to make these things ok?  It will never be equal...it will be a constant understanding of the other...like having a child...but these are not kids...and I can't see that attention for the other and their problems ever paying back fully for selves...even that in terms of dedication to self is perverse to compromise via that...it's like worse case scenario has met some type of stabilization...for us Nons why settle...we didn't feel ok about our pasts...why feel ok about our future via that unless its just out of fear and loss...or help...and that is no way to deal...for self...for myself I am seeing her as all or nothing...all  means self ruin for her thing...and it is pointless as it will not work for her anyhow...and I will be ruined as well...just the chess game playing out...whereas  the nothing gives hope to me at least...as hard as it is to swallow...and it is hard...these are the questions I am asking myself when the blood is fresh...
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« Reply #17 on: January 11, 2021, 08:18:09 PM »

I'm new here and don't have any advice except to commiserate.  I have also recently moved out and my partner is trying so hard to work on things.  He has taken measures like this so many times before when he knows I'm at my breaking point but this time he has actually kept it up since I moved out 7 months ago.  He stopped drinking and got a sponsor (I don't think he was an alcoholic but when he did drink he would always end up extremely angry and escalating things)  and is seeing a therapist.  I am really torn too -seeing him acknowledge that he mistreated me and these commitments he's made - but similar to you have that gut feeling that I can't go back to that place. It was so hard to leave the first time not sure I could handle having to do it all over again.   Its also been helping me to think of it like this: that if he has actually changed and improved, I won't be able to appreciate it because I will spend every day we're back together waiting for the slightest inkling that his old ways are coming back.   I don't think that would be fair to him and I hope one day he can find another supportive relationship that he can start from a healthier place as opposed to being with someone (me) who is constantly on guard for them to make a mistake.    Not sure if that helps at all but sending you strength for whatever your next steps are.   
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mstnghu
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« Reply #18 on: February 05, 2021, 12:28:22 PM »

Happy Friday! Here is my latest update to my soap opera life. Last week I was feeling somewhat weak in my resolve and I started entertaining the idea of moving back home. My feelings of guilt for leaving were getting strong and I started to think seriously about having a conversation with my wife over the weekend about moving back and what ground rules would be in place.
Last Friday, I talked to a couple of good friends who thankfully talked me down from the ledge. I also had a slight epiphany over the weekend. I went to the gym and was actually praying about the situation and telling God that I was tired of feeling guilt and shame over leaving. The wife was constantly making me feel guilty and flat out telling me that I abandoned my family. Mentally, I knew that was absolutely not the case. Actually, the entire time I've been moved out, I've still come around the house 5-6 times a week and still help out with all the regular household duties I always have. I'm also continuing to pay for all the household expenses that I always have. My epiphany was this- I am not responsible for her feelings. If I specifically do something to hurt her, then yes. Otherwise, if I know in my heart that I'm making decisions that are healthier for me and for my son in the long run and that I chose to leave the relationship because it was completely toxic and unhealthy, I can't control her negative feelings toward me. She is responsible for her own thoughts and actions and it doesn't mean that I'm at fault.
I realize that she and I just have completely different views toward the entire situation and I don't think there's any meeting in the middle at this point.
Yesterday things got really heated between us talking over the phone and through text. It took me right back to all the many many times we've had never ending toxic circular arguments that never had any sort of resolution. I was fully reminded of exactly what I despise in our relationship and what caused me to leave.
Supposedly she's really been working on herself lately while seeing a therapist and she says she's a completely different person and that everything will be better if I move back. Yesterday reminded me that it's just not the case. One thing she said that really stood out is that if I refuse to move back in she will not be cooperative with co-parenting my son. That comment reinforced to me that she hasn't changed. She is determined to get her way and if she doesn't, she'll use whatever toxic tools she has to try to make things difficult for me.
So, that's where I'm at today. I'm feeling a little better this week now that I'm getting better at not feeling guilt and shame. It's a freeing feeling and I hope I can keep on the trajectory I've been on.
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« Reply #19 on: February 06, 2021, 01:39:43 AM »

It’s been months since I found this site, and I still get blown away by how similar some of our stories are.

I’m at a similar point in the timeline too. Been broken up for ~6 months. I still constantly get told that I “threw it all away”, I’d equate that to yours telling you that you abandoned you’re family. At some point, it ain’t your fault, it’s theirs. You and I can know this intellectually but we can only commiserate about how much it hurts anyways.

Also I’m likewise in that bog of “why aren’t we working on us?”, when I’ve been crystal clear the whole time, isn’t the plan right now. Sucks.
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« Reply #20 on: February 06, 2021, 04:51:38 PM »

OP dont go back.

I left twice and saw the same pattern as you

super nice all of a sudden and trying to get you back into the fire pretending its all gonna be perfect from now on.

I went back twice and am stuck at the moment trying to get out again.


Learn from my errors - stick to your decision.
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« Reply #21 on: February 08, 2021, 11:53:25 AM »

Hey mstnghu, No, you're not responsible for her feelings.  Took me a long time to grasp.  Indeed, you're not responsible for the well-being of another adult.  Be careful about manipulation through F-O-G.  I used to be quite susceptible to arm-twisting.

Don't beat yourself up!  You haven't done anything wrong.  Suggest you keep your focus on what is right for you.

LJ
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« Reply #22 on: February 08, 2021, 01:44:28 PM »

Happy Friday! Here is my latest update to my soap opera life. Last week I was feeling somewhat weak in my resolve and I started entertaining the idea of moving back home. My feelings of guilt for leaving were getting strong and I started to think seriously about having a conversation with my wife over the weekend about moving back and what ground rules would be in place.
Last Friday, I talked to a couple of good friends who thankfully talked me down from the ledge. I also had a slight epiphany over the weekend. I went to the gym and was actually praying about the situation and telling God that I was tired of feeling guilt and shame over leaving. The wife was constantly making me feel guilty and flat out telling me that I abandoned my family. Mentally, I knew that was absolutely not the case. Actually, the entire time I've been moved out, I've still come around the house 5-6 times a week and still help out with all the regular household duties I always have. I'm also continuing to pay for all the household expenses that I always have. My epiphany was this- I am not responsible for her feelings. If I specifically do something to hurt her, then yes. Otherwise, if I know in my heart that I'm making decisions that are healthier for me and for my son in the long run and that I chose to leave the relationship because it was completely toxic and unhealthy, I can't control her negative feelings toward me. She is responsible for her own thoughts and actions and it doesn't mean that I'm at fault.
I realize that she and I just have completely different views toward the entire situation and I don't think there's any meeting in the middle at this point.
Yesterday things got really heated between us talking over the phone and through text. It took me right back to all the many many times we've had never ending toxic circular arguments that never had any sort of resolution. I was fully reminded of exactly what I despise in our relationship and what caused me to leave.
Supposedly she's really been working on herself lately while seeing a therapist and she says she's a completely different person and that everything will be better if I move back. Yesterday reminded me that it's just not the case. One thing she said that really stood out is that if I refuse to move back in she will not be cooperative with co-parenting my son. That comment reinforced to me that she hasn't changed. She is determined to get her way and if she doesn't, she'll use whatever toxic tools she has to try to make things difficult for me.
So, that's where I'm at today. I'm feeling a little better this week now that I'm getting better at not feeling guilt and shame. It's a freeing feeling and I hope I can keep on the trajectory I've been on.

So...the other have pointed you in the right direction already. The only thing I want to chime in with is this..."I hope I can keep on the trajectory I've been on." You are leaving yourself open to doubt by even saying this. Say to yourself you are going to NIKE this thing...Just Do IT! Worry about you and your son. You are only responsible for you and hey you deserve to be treated right and fairly. You do not have to be someone else's savior. Save yourself. Prioritize yourself. Make sure you strive to put yourself first and make yourself the best version of YOU that you can be so your son sees that. If you can do that your son will also be happier. Never settle. Want Better, Expect Better, Do Better!

Cheers and best wishes!

-SC-
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« Reply #23 on: February 10, 2021, 02:06:51 AM »

Last Friday, I talked to a couple of good friends who thankfully talked me down from the ledge. I also had a slight epiphany over the weekend. I went to the gym and was actually praying about the situation and telling God that I was tired of feeling guilt and shame over leaving. The wife was constantly making me feel guilty and flat out telling me that I abandoned my family. Mentally, I knew that was absolutely not the case. Actually, the entire time I've been moved out, I've still come around the house 5-6 times a week and still help out with all the regular household duties I always have. I'm also continuing to pay for all the household expenses that I always have. My epiphany was this- I am not responsible for her feelings. If I specifically do something to hurt her, then yes. Otherwise, if I know in my heart that I'm making decisions that are healthier for me and for my son in the long run and that I chose to leave the relationship because it was completely toxic and unhealthy, I can't control her negative feelings toward me. She is responsible for her own thoughts and actions and it doesn't mean that I'm at fault.
I realize that she and I just have completely different views toward the entire situation and I don't think there's any meeting in the middle at this point.
...
One thing she said that really stood out is that if I refuse to move back in she will not be cooperative with co-parenting my son. That comment reinforced to me that she hasn't changed. She is determined to get her way and if she doesn't, she'll use whatever toxic tools she has to try to make things difficult for me.

FOG is a hell of a drug, man.

sometimes its more about something in us. sometimes its something someone wittingly, or unwittingly uses. sometimes its both.

seeing it, and letting go with it, are part of detaching.
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« Reply #24 on: February 10, 2021, 12:48:12 PM »

Mstnghu, I'm an outsider so can't really speak with insight on your situation... But, I would really really really venture to say: don't go back.

The thing that strikes me when reading your texts is that she seems to be doing 'the right things' now, and this confuses you... But the thing is that she is doing these things for herself. Not for you. She is doing this because she wants you back. Ask yourself why she did not do these things freely, just out of love for you, when she wasn't forced to.

That's what true, adult love is about. Making the effort because your partner deserves it, or because it is the right thing to do. When you only do it when and because you are losing the other one, that's not the right motivation.

It reminds me of what a friend of mine once said when he quit his job because he thought he was underpaid and they wouldn't give him a raise, supposedly because the company didn't have the money, although they turned a nice profit. When he quit, all of a sudden they offered him a raise to keep him. He told his boss, if they thought he deserved that (higher) wage, why did they refuse to give it to him before, and stood his ground.

And that's the thing. If her motivation to change is selfish (and it sounds like that), you can be sure that once you go back, nothing will have changed, and she will stay selfish.

And if you really must see where this is going, let her do the work, let her prove that she sticks to her guns and check again in a couple of months. People with personality disorders have serious problems with altruism and delayed gratification, so the chances are huge that she'll slip up and show you her true colours and motivation.

Either way, my two cents worth: please love yourself and don't let her back into your life. The fact that she's only willing to put in the effort once she's lost you is a big red flag in my opinion.
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« Reply #25 on: February 24, 2021, 12:59:35 PM »

It's been a few weeks since I've updated my story here. Unfortunately not a whole lot has changed with my situation. I'd love to report that things have improved or progressed somehow, but it's been very slow going. I still feel I have to tread lightly with my wife to keep the peace with her and not trigger her to do something that would make the situation volatile.
I do find that I have a little more peace in my decision lately and am not having the constant feelings of guilt about leaving. It would definitely be much easier if she'd come to the same conclusion as me about us not being good for each other. In our last therapy session together, I told her and the therapist that I really believed that the only reason my wife was trying so hard to convince me to move back in was because she needed all the support that I offer her as far as household duties, etc. go. I don't feel it's because she actually likes me or is in love with me. I'm just useful to her and serve a purpose. She of course denied this and then literally ten minutes later admitted to me and the counselor that she doesn't care if I move back in to have have a romantic relationship and work toward being in love- she just wants me back to support her because she feels overwhelmed!
Comments like that just remind me again that I serve a useful purpose to her. Any "changes" she's made to improve herself are mainly just for show and if I moved back in, her true colors would come right back. Last night as I was leaving the house to head back to my parents' place she let me know that I should be staying with her and shouldn't be leaving to go back to my parents' house anymore. She also said that I'm not thinking clearly about the situation...basically once again completely invalidating my decision to leave and the reasons behind  my decision. She tells me almost daily how I "made the wrong decision" or "abandoned the family", anything to try to convince me that she's right and I'm wrong and I just need to "do the right thing" and move back. The "right" thing is basically whatever is right to her, regardless of how it negatively impacts me or my son.
On a side note, we won't be meeting with the therapist anymore. We've both had completely different goals from the beginning. She wanted the goal to be for us to commit 100% to reconciling and fixing our marriage. I just wanted to work on our communication skills. The therapist told us last week that if we can't find middle ground with what our goals are, then she'd have to shift her focus specifically to helping us communicate with each other better and co-parent better. She also told my wife that she (therapist) can't tell me to move back home and can't tell me that I have to commit to working on the marriage. My wife didn't like hearing that and a couple days ago she sent an email to the therapist that we wouldn't be continuing anymore sessions. I was very tempted to send my own email saying "Well, it looks like she's decided for both of us what we're going to do...story of our relationship." I exercised self control and just left it alone.
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« Reply #26 on: February 24, 2021, 02:03:40 PM »

Hey mstnghu, If you think the T is helpful, you could ask her if she would continue to see you on an individual basis now that your W has dropped out of therapy.  That's what I did many years ago when my Ex bailed out of therapy, because I thought the T had good instincts.  Anyway, he's still my T and has helped me a lot over the years.  It doesn't hurt that he knows my Ex and is familiar with her personality.  Worth a try, if you think the T is good at what she does.

On another note, I'm sure it would be easier if your W came to the "same conclusion" as you about the future of your marriage, yet I find that unlikely.  Indeed, it sounds like she is still trying to manipulate you through guilt - "you abandoned the family" - as a way to twist your arm.  I'm sure you know that those w/BPD use F-O-G (fear, obligation and guilt) as a means to get their way. 

I suggest you listen to your gut feelings and continue to do what is right for you and your son.

LuckyJim
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« Reply #27 on: March 01, 2021, 04:04:06 AM »

Hey mstnghu, If you think the T is helpful, you could ask her if she would continue to see you on an individual basis now that your W has dropped out of therapy.  That's what I did many years ago when my Ex bailed out of therapy, because I thought the T had good instincts.  Anyway, he's still my T and has helped me a lot over the years.  It doesn't hurt that he knows my Ex and is familiar with her personality.  Worth a try, if you think the T is good at what she does.

On another note, I'm sure it would be easier if your W came to the "same conclusion" as you about the future of your marriage, yet I find that unlikely.  Indeed, it sounds like she is still trying to manipulate you through guilt - "you abandoned the family" - as a way to twist your arm.  I'm sure you know that those w/BPD use F-O-G (fear, obligation and guilt) as a means to get their way. 

I suggest you listen to your gut feelings and continue to do what is right for you and your son.

LuckyJim

Yes guilt and obligation - that is the last resort argument to keep you in a bad abusive marriage. Same arguments I have heard.

Stay firm.
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« Reply #28 on: March 01, 2021, 05:47:51 PM »

Hey mstnghu, If you think the T is helpful, you could ask her if she would continue to see you on an individual basis now that your W has dropped out of therapy.  That's what I did many years ago when my Ex bailed out of therapy, because I thought the T had good instincts.  Anyway, he's still my T and has helped me a lot over the years.  It doesn't hurt that he knows my Ex and is familiar with her personality.  Worth a try, if you think the T is good at what she does.

On another note, I'm sure it would be easier if your W came to the "same conclusion" as you about the future of your marriage, yet I find that unlikely.  Indeed, it sounds like she is still trying to manipulate you through guilt - "you abandoned the family" - as a way to twist your arm.  I'm sure you know that those w/BPD use F-O-G (fear, obligation and guilt) as a means to get their way. 

I suggest you listen to your gut feelings and continue to do what is right for you and your son.

LuckyJim

Thanks for the words, Jim. I am familiar with FOG and unfortunately I've been living in it throughout most of my relationship. I have gotten better about not living that way anymore but definitely have a long way to go. Just a couple hours ago she sent me a picture from social media from last year pre-pandemic, where we went to a mud bath spa to celebrate her birthday. She pointed out what a great time we had together. I know she's only doing this to once again "prove" how good we are together. Honestly, that was a fun day overall...but I also remember a nasty fight while we were driving to our destination.  Of course there have been good times, but the bad are REALLY bad and more frequent than the good times.

I also had considered therapy on my own, but probably through my healthcare provider since all I'd have to pay is my co-pay. The therapist the wife and I were seeing together was completely out-of-pocket and was not cheap. I did like her though but not necessarily enough to see the value since she's so expensive.
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« Reply #29 on: March 02, 2021, 12:26:06 PM »

Excerpt
Honestly, that was a fun day overall...but I also remember a nasty fight while we were driving to our destination.  Of course there have been good times, but the bad are REALLY bad and more frequent than the good times.

Hey mstnghu, Glad you are tempering the memory of that day with the reality that you had a nasty fight on the way there.  She's attempting to manipulate you, needless to say.  I suggest you decline to react when she tries to twist your arm.  Instead, continue to listen to your gut feelings.

LJ
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