Need Help Convincing BPD Spouse to Seek Therapy

[Vykyng]

My second post here that gets to the heart of the help and support I need.
I’ve been married for over 13 years to my wife, and we have 2 kids. Her behavior began to change after we got married and moved in together, but it has worsened significantly over the past seven years becoming nearly intolerable. Because I’m a transplant to the city where we met and currently live, I was in a bit of an isolation bubble when the situation intensified, so I had no where to look but within. As her rage and verbal / emotional abuse became more frequent, she convinced me our relationship issues were all my fault due to my own mental health issues and that I was a terrible husband and father. At one point she threatened to divorce me if I didn’t seek therapy. Although this was very hard for me because I didn't understand what I'd been doing wrong and why she was acting so angrily and hatefully, I still agreed to unilaterally seek therapy. In retrospect I'm GLAD I did. My current therapist was very attentive and helped me see that what was happening wasn’t (all) my fault, and suggested that my wife was exhibiting BPD traits. After walking me through a questionnaire, he suggested I read “Stop Walking on Eggshells”. I avoided reading it for a while because the brainwashing I'd experienced over the past few years prevented me from conceiving that anything was wrong with her, and it was because of my bad behavior that she got so angry. I struggled with this and became angry myself when all my efforts to please her fell apart. My therapist encouraged me to set boundaries. I tried to stand my ground but ended up caving in and apologizing for my reactions to her rage and abuse just to keep the peace. At one point I sought solace outside of my isolation to vent my frustrations to a friend, but she read my private text messages to that person. I left the house after that fight for a weekend and stayed in a hotel. When I came back home, she was a changed person. Some kind words, even about my parenting. Intimacy returned. But that disappeared in about 2 weeks, and the downward slope accelerated. The rage increased and she started accusing me of emotionally abusing her. She then ‘disinvited’ me to family dinner and said she needed to keep the children away from me. Even during COVID lockdown and despite her being an OCD germophobe in normal times, she took the kids out to eat without me. She told our kids I was mentally ill and not to talk to me. Of course, they did not believe this and told me everything she told them (God bless kids – they can often see what we have trouble seeing through adult filters), but this parental alienation was the last straw for me. I confronted her and told her that if she didn’t agree to counseling that I was leaving. After a fight, she agreed, and I told her that she should choose the therapist so there wouldn’t be an argument about that. After a week, no appointment. After two, I confronted her again and she said she didn’t have the time to find a therapist (she is a stay-at-home mom). I offered to make a list, which I did, and I gave it to her. After three weeks, still no appointment. I convinced myself that I needed to follow through with my ultimatum, and seriously contemplated it. I spoke to lawyers, opened a bank account, toured for places to live, and even filled out an application for one. But when it came down to it, I was afraid. Afraid that her rage would cause her to alienate my kids and everyone we knew from me because of what she’d done before. So, I held off and re-engaged to try to smooth things out. We talked about counseling again, and she told me that she didn’t want to do it because she was a perfectly rational person who didn’t need a therapist to tell her how to think. I said I would only accept that if she promised to work on our relationship, which she agreed to. Bad mistake on my part because things have only gotten worse and she has thrown that promise in my face. I desperation I finally read “Stop Walking on Eggshells” last week, and it was a shock. She fits the description of a high-functioning BPD to a tee, with very strong NPD traits was well. There is relief in being able to define the issue and appreciate that I am not the cause, but also regret in knowing that my reactions unknowingly made things worse over the years because I was ignorant to her BPD issues and how brainwashed I had become through the gaslighting and manipulation into believing that it was all my fault.
I love my wife and want her to get the help she needs, but she is convinced beyond reasoning that there is nothing at all wrong with her, and that all our relationship issues are my fault. All I know is that living like this is tearing me apart, and I am also very concerned about the affect it is having on our children, especially my son who has begun to respond to the slightest displeasure with extreme overreaction and anger. My threats to leave have only succeeded in getting her to agree to go to therapy, but she hasn’t followed through because she believes she is a very stable and functioning person, which I suppose isn’t surprising with the NPD. I have sacrificed so much emotionally for the sake of this relationship and it has begun to affect me physically as well. Any recommendations or help from the group on how to get my wife to accept the fact that she has a problem and needs help would be GREATLY appreciated.

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[Naughty Nibbler]

Hi Vykyng:  Sounds like you are in a tough situation. 

My therapist encouraged me to set boundaries. I tried to stand my ground but ended up caving in and apologizing for my reactions to her rage and abuse just to keep the peace.   

You have to stay strong and hold to your boundaries.  In most instances, when you start to enforce boundaries, things will get worse, before they get better.  So, you have to anticipate and plan for that.

NEVER validate invalid FACTS and take responsibility for what's FALSE.

It could be helpful for you to study a bit about validation/don't invalidate.  Validation can be a bit tricky. Sometimes, it's just best to NOT invalidate by word, expression or body language. Check out the info. at the link below

DON'T INVALIDATE

It can help to learn how to validate feelings, i.e. "I can see that you are extremely angry now.  I will not discuss this until we can have a calm discussion." (a combo of a validation and a boundary to not continue arguing)  You may need to remove yourself from the area.  Sometimes that could mean going to the back yard, the garage, etc.  Other times, it may necessitate going for a walk around the neighborhood or a drive.  If you do go for a walk or drive, be sure to indicate that you will be back in a certain length of time or say something like, "If I'm not back by ___, I'll text you"

Did you discuss the boundary attempt with your therapist?  If so, what feedback did you get from him? What was the boundary you attempted to enforce and how did you initially attempt it?  Could it have been phrased in a better way.

Some strategic ways to communicate are with:
SET Statements:  The statement will include elements of SUPPORT, EMPATHY and TRUTH.

"I" Statement: The focus is on "I'" (you) not on "YOU" (your partner).  The template is:  When ____happens, I feel ______. I'd rather have ______

i.e.  When I am yelled at, I feel unloved and frustrated, and I worry about the example it sets for our children.  I'd like for us to interact peacefully and be a good example for our children.

At one point I sought solace outside of my isolation to vent my frustrations to a friend, but she read my private text messages to that person.

  I'd suggest that you password protect your phone and take measures to keep some things private.  You should take measures to keep your history for browsing this website private, perhaps use an incognito browser option.

[Vykyng]

Hi Naughty Nibbler,
Thanks for the response and feedback. After 14 years of being worn down, I am just now in the phase of realizing that BPD (undiagnosed) may be the cause. I still need to learn and practice these tactics going forward, assuming I can find the strength. 

Did you discuss the boundary attempt with your therapist?  If so, what feedback did you get from him? What was the boundary you attempted to enforce and how did you initially attempt it?  Could it have been phrased in a better way.

Yes. He encouraged me to address it with her directly, and if she reacted badly to just walk away and try again another time. He suggested it may take multiple attempts at this until she was receptive, and that each attempt was an accomplishment towards a goal. I have to admit I would have to dig deep to find that patience.

The boundary involved her accusing me of being the cause of a contractor not wanting to do work for us anymore. I believe this is pure fantasy on her part, and the incident she points to as the cause was so minor that I cannot fathom any contractor on earth refusing to work with good paying customers over it. However, she fabricated a scenario where the contractor is busy enough working on high-end houses with nice clients, and has chosen not to work with us because I am an [vulgarity] which has prevented her from being able to make the updates to the house she wants. We've had a million fights about it where she just ramps up her anger until I admit my fault, which I refuse to do. I phrased my request for a boundary as "You have made your point about XXX and I understand how you feel. I would like to not discuss this topic anymore." Not sure if that is the 'right' way, but this definitely identified this topic as a trigger for me, and she has repeatedly used it since.

I'd suggest that you password protect your phone and take measures to keep some things private.  You should take measures to keep your history for browsing this website private, perhaps use an incognito browser option.

Lesson learned and done. It makes me feel like I'm sneaking around, but this is what isolation does I guess. The interesting thing to me was that my wife took nothing away from seeing those texts. She just categorized them as "all lies" and demanded "what kind of husband says those things about his wife?" It was an opportunity to tell her how her behavior made me feel, but she just turned the tables, telling me those were my issues and that she didn't want to waste anymore of her time listening to me talk about myself.

[Naughty Nibbler]

Hi again Vykyng:

Yes. He encouraged me to address it with her directly, and if she reacted badly to just walk away and try again another time. He suggested it may take multiple attempts at this until she was receptive, and that each attempt was an accomplishment towards a goal. I have to admit I would have to dig deep to find that patience.

 He gave you good advice.  I can understand that it has to be very frustrating.  

It's important to take care of yourself and have some outlet for your frustrations. It can be hard to make time, but you need some healthy ways to destress.  You will find that when you are in a better place mentally, you will likely gain patience to handle situations better. What can you do to better manage your anxiety?  Walking, running, hiking, trips to the park with the children, working out (even if it means at home with free weights,etc.), some forms of meditation or anxiety reduction techniques.

When she quits getting a reaction out of you, she might stop repeating her script about the contractor. You should find that refusing to be a party to the same nagging, should be beneficial for you over time. The real energy dran has to come when you engage or accept fault.  Don't JADE - Justify, Argue, Defend and Explain.  

I phrased my request for a boundary as "You have made your point about XXX and I understand how you feel. I would like to not discuss this topic anymore." Not sure if that is the 'right' way, but this definitely identified this topic as a trigger for me, and she has repeatedly used it since.  

 You did a good job of phrasing that. You need to stick to that boundary.

There is no value added in going over and over and over something like that.  You know it, but she continues to ruminate about it. Keep refusing to discuss it, but perhaps next time, you can add something like. "When you are ready to move forward and calmly discuss getting a new contractor, we can have that conversation."

It makes me feel like I'm sneaking around, but this is what isolation does I guess. The interesting thing to me was that my wife took nothing away from seeing those texts. She just categorized them as "all lies" and demanded "what kind of husband says those things about his wife?" It was an opportunity to tell her how her behavior made me feel, but she just turned the tables, telling me those were my issues and that she didn't want to waste anymore of her time listening to me talk about myself.  

Ouch!  Sounds like she is projecting her behaviors onto you.  In order to get her into therapy, you may have to pick up where you left off, and have a follow-up discussion on divorce, if no therapy.  You might, also, refuse to have further discussion about house renovations, without therapy. Sounds like she believes that you won't follow through, so she appeases you short term with promises.  

[Vykyng]

Thanks again, NN

Sounds like she is projecting her behaviors onto you.  In order to get her into therapy, you may have to pick up where you left off, and have a follow-up discussion on divorce, if no therapy.  You might, also, refuse to have further discussion about house renovations, without therapy. Sounds like she believes that you won't follow through, so she appeases you short term with promises.  

Yes, she’s quite good at projection... uncanny actually with extra-sensory perception. Whenever I feel the need to point out one of her behaviors, she accuses me of the same thing first. I now know (think?) this is because she’s acutely aware of it herself and rushes to her own mental defense with an accusation. Ugh.

Regarding the ultimatum, I was under the impression that this wasn’t a good tactic with hpBDPs, but please correct me if I’m wrong because I am right at that point now. I want to phrase it more as a consequence of not respecting my wishes, but I know that I have to accept the same consequence and be prepared to carry it out, which has been VERY HARD with family cohesion at stake. Thoughts?

[once removed]

a very important lesson, as it has to do with boundaries, is dont issue ultimatums you arent prepared to enforce.

i know that youre new to all of this, and the enormous pressure on you. take it from a guy that "broke up with" his girlfriend probably 100 times.

my point is that if you believe, firmly, with all of your heart, that therapy/couples counseling is what its going to take, that the relationship cant be saved without it, and you issue that ultimatum, be prepared (committed) to walk away if there is no follow through. otherwise, accept that the prospect is unlikely to happen, and pursue other options. threats can motivate a person to present short term change. before long, its just a battle of wills, and the unwilling person will win.

having said that, you built credibility in seeking a therapist. it can be a very motivating thing to say "you suggested i seek therapy, and i did, and look at how it has improved our marriage (with examples)". dont lose sight of that.

He suggested it may take multiple attempts at this until she was receptive, and that each attempt was an accomplishment towards a goal. I have to admit I would have to dig deep to find that patience.

this is going to be the case with virtually everything that you try. as i said in your other thread, things didnt get to where they are over night, they will not be resolved over night. it will require trial and error, work, and consistency. if you choose to stay, (in general) dig deep to find that patience.

I phrased my request for a boundary as "You have made your point about XXX and I understand how you feel. I would like to not discuss this topic anymore." Not sure if that is the 'right' way, but this definitely identified this topic as a trigger for me, and she has repeatedly used it since.

with regard to whether or not its the right way, is it how you ordinarily speak to her?

[Vykyng]

my point is that if you believe, firmly, with all of your heart, that therapy/couples counseling is what its going to take, that the relationship cant be saved without it, and you issue that ultimatum, be prepared (committed) to walk away if there is no follow through. otherwise, accept that the prospect is unlikely to happen, and pursue other options. threats can motivate a person to present short term change. before long, its just a battle of wills, and the unwilling person will win.

I'd like to think so, but I wonder if I'm hoping against hope sometimes... but I haven't held my ground on ultimatums either. I'm about to and I will have to see how it goes.

having said that, you built credibility in seeking a therapist. it can be a very motivating thing to say "you suggested i seek therapy, and i did, and look at how it has improved our marriage (with examples)". dont lose sight of that.

I will remember that and remind her... repeatedly. She has admitted that it has helped and seems to have a good opinion of my therapist.

with regard to whether or not its the right way, is it how you ordinarily speak to her?

It's been a mix. Sometimes (more often than not in the past) I would get upset and JADE which I am realizing was not helpful. As I've read more I am learning more about how to speak to pwBPD, and in that instance I used it because this is an old one that keeps coming up. Its frustrating because it feels more like talking to a pre-teen/teenager where I have to carefully chose my words all the time... but I would do it for my kids, so I feel like I owe it to my wife to try.

[once removed]

I'd like to think so, but I wonder if I'm hoping against hope sometimes... but I haven't held my ground on ultimatums either. I'm about to and I will have to see how it goes.

i just want to reiterate, do so only if you are committed. dont make this about a battle of the wills, or use it to motivate change in her, or get her to see the light. it will almost certainly fail.

more than likely, you will hear "no", you will take steps, and then she will be on her best behavior.

and if that happens, it wont be because shes insincere, per se. it will be because of unwillingness and/or (more accurately) limited ability and because the steps you took motivated her more than she motivated herself.

and if that happens, it will ultimately do more damage to the relationship security. her fears and resentments will grow, and so will yours.

It's been a mix. Sometimes (more often than not in the past) I would get upset and JADE which I am realizing was not helpful. As I've read more I am learning more about how to speak to pwBPD, and in that instance I used it because this is an old one that keeps coming up. Its frustrating because it feels more like talking to a pre-teen/teenager where I have to carefully chose my words all the time... but I would do it for my kids, so I feel like I owe it to my wife to try.

to me, the single most important piece of advice when it comes to the communication tools, is to be sincere and authentic. use the voice you speak to your wife with.

the tendency, when first learning them, is to use canned lines that sound like "therapist speak" or are robotic. that works on literally no one.

it is awkward at first, and it takes practice to be natural at, so do practice. i use them all the time here on the boards, and you can do so too; it will help.

[pursuingJoy]

I phrased my request for a boundary as "You have made your point about XXX and I understand how you feel. I would like to not discuss this topic anymore." Not sure if that is the 'right' way, but this definitely identified this topic as a trigger for me, and she has repeatedly used it since.

I agree with NN that your phrasing is good, and with once removed that a natural tone is critical to success. What struck me about your thoughts on this is that you believe this identified a trigger for you. It sounds to me that setting a boundary triggered her insecurities. She is trying to assuage her fears by dismantling this unfamiliar and uncomfortable boundary using techniques what have worked in the past. You're maintaining a message and staying calm, which is the best thing you can do for her, and for you. You're learning a new dance, one that you're leading.

It makes me feel like I'm sneaking around, but this is what isolation does I guess.

I'm not sure it's sneaking around. Each person in a relationship needs to find a good balance of sharing and openness with the SO mixed with individual responsibility and self-care. You need additional support and you're being responsible with where you find that support. Keep it up, Vykyng.