road maps?

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

It's been awhile and in that time I now understand I will have to separate from my wife.

We have two kids (almost 4 and just turned 1).

I am finding myself overwhelmed by the logistics.  I would under normal circumstances, but the pandemic is just making it all so much MORE.

Do you have any resources for making a plan and laying out the steps.  There are parts I already have on my list, like consulting some attorneys.

The part that flummoxes me the most is that from what I have gathered here, the best way to end things with someone living with BPD is to 100% disconnect.  Obviously this isn't possible as coparents, so I'm curious to hear any tips about successfully negotiating that - especially in the early days.

Thanks for taking time to read.  You all were so helpful the last time and I am getting so much out of this rich resource.

[oh_hai]

It's been awhile and in that time I now understand I will have to separate from my wife.

We have two kids (almost 4 and just turned 1).

I am finding myself overwhelmed by the logistics.  I would under normal circumstances, but the pandemic is just making it all so much MORE.

Do you have any resources for making a plan and laying out the steps.  There are parts I already have on my list, like consulting some attorneys.

The part that flummoxes me the most is that from what I have gathered here, the best way to end things with someone living with BPD is to 100% disconnect.  Obviously this isn't possible as coparents, so I'm curious to hear any tips about successfully negotiating that - especially in the early days.

Thanks for taking time to read.  You all were so helpful the last time and I am getting so much out of this rich resource.

[MeandThee29]

I would encourage you to start reading family law attorney's blogs and Facebook pages. In my area, there are also some mediators that have a lot of information out there. Find ones in your area or in a larger metropolitan area close to you. I learned so much that way about the laws in my state and culture/priorities of different firms. And it's FREE!

Once you understand the process for your area some, you can start interviewing attorneys. If you have the basics down, you can focus on what they bring to the table and what the issues are for your particular case.

The logistics of separating are indeed really difficult.

Thankfully the legal profession has largely adapted though in the pandemic and moved most interactions online. In some ways, that can be easier and more flexible.

[mart555]

Definitely read the book "Splitting" by Bill Eddy.   I wish I had read it before my divorce.. then again, I wasn't aware she had BPD at the time..

[Turkish]

What events prompted your decision to separate or divorce between the last time you were here and now?

[sterlingblue]

Thanks for your post, oh. It sounds like you and I are in a similar situation at the same time (I posted here a few days back).

I don't have a road map yet either, but I am working on it and looking forward to brighter days ahead for my kids and me.

Take good care,
sterlingblue

[CoherentMoose]

I second the advice to read Splitting.  This site too is a great place to research how other non's managed their separation and divorce.  In fact, searching through here is where I found the best advice. 

It's a little daunting (and quite time consuming!) to search through here, but once you find a story that is similar to yours, you can search on their individual posts.  Time spent now in planning will pay off in the long run.  Continue to post in here too when you have specific questions.  Your story may help others, like me, that mostly lurk.  Good luck.  CoMo

[defogging]

I recommend reading about parallel parenting.  It's a different way to "co-parent" with a high conflict ex.  If your situation is anything like mine, traditional co-parenting won't work since the ex won't be agreeable to anything and will generally be working against you with every move, even if they act like they agree with you on something. 

With parallel parenting you set the rules at your house, make the best decisions you can for the kids, and let your ex parent how they wish (usually dysfunctional parenting).  It's worked well for me.  I have minimal contact with my ex, we only talk about activities, school, medical stuff, etc. related to the kids.  One important thing is to only allow written communication, don't give them the opportunity to spin a different narrative just because the conversation wasn't documented.  My exPDw still tries to control how things happen at my house but I've made it clear to the kids that Mom has no jurisdiction at my house and we do things how we think is best.  Over time Mom has tried less and less to control my house.  That's a hard boundary I've had to set, including telling exPDw in front of the kids that she needs to stop telling them what to do during my parenting time.  The kids have responded really well to that boundary.  At first they were confused by two different environments, but now they know my house is relaxed and a safe place to be themselves, and they are much happier.

One thing though - everyone in the outside world will talk about co-parenting as if it's the only real way to approach it.  In my case, specifically the kids' therapists.  It can be frustrating when they see the conflict as two healthy adults who just can't get along, when in reality one person is causing 99% of the drama.  But they don't see what's really going on, because the PD is on their best behavior in front of them.  Just be aware of that and don't let it frustrate you.

[oh_hai]

Thank you so much for the support and extremely helpful suggestions!

Thanks especially for the book recommendation and the key search term ("parallel parenting").

Over the past few months, I have taken time to examine the relationship very carefully with the help of a therapist.  I also have worked really hard to improve what I bring to our deteriorating dynamic.  What I've realized is that there is no matter how hard I try, I am not going to be able to provide an environment I feel OK about for our kids on my own.  Despite urging for us to seek help together or for her to do so independently, the excuses only have gotten more dramatic and emphatic.  At this point, the only realistic option I see is to separate.  One tipping point has been the escalation of externalizing behaviors in our son.  I owe him better.  I owe it to us all.

I think one of the most painful lessons I've learned is that it certainly hasn't always been this bad, but I don't think it was ever all that good.  I think back on moments of insight where I wish I had listened more carefully and want to figure out ways to take note of those moments in the future.

At the same time, I adore my kids and if this is the path I had to take to meet them, so be it.  All I can do now is to look forward and provide the safest, calmest, and most predictable home I can.

I have a lot of fear and dread.  I am steeling myself for the drama, but I am trying to keep my eyes focused on the horizon.

Thanks again for providing this amazing community and for helping me through these uncertain times!  Wishing everyone peace!

[defogging]

Over the past few months, I have taken time to examine the relationship very carefully with the help of a therapist.  I also have worked really hard to improve what I bring to our deteriorating dynamic.  What I've realized is that there is no matter how hard I try, I am not going to be able to provide an environment I feel OK about for our kids on my own.  Despite urging for us to seek help together or for her to do so independently, the excuses only have gotten more dramatic and emphatic.  At this point, the only realistic option I see is to separate.  One tipping point has been the escalation of externalizing behaviors in our son.  I owe him better.  I owe it to us all.

I think one of the most painful lessons I've learned is that it certainly hasn't always been this bad, but I don't think it was ever all that good.  I think back on moments of insight where I wish I had listened more carefully and want to figure out ways to take note of those moments in the future.

You pretty much wrote my story here.  I could point to a few different things as "the final straw" but watching my kids emulate their Mom's behavior when I knew that wasn't who they really were was one of the big ones.  Anger, hitting, blaming others, verbal attacks and put downs...nope, they deserve a better model.  Hopefully I can share some positive light with you here by saying that in 18 months since the divorce I've seen an incredible turnaround in my kids.  They are happy, able to be themselves, and the oldest who had the least empathy for others has really turned around and become a sweet kid again.

Your second paragraph rings very true as well.  I've done a lot of reflection, and now I see so many warning signs that I never spotted at the time.  The relationship was good at times, but it was never healthy.  I was a fixer and a rescuer, and got sucked into it.  I'm still on my path to recovery and don't really want another relationship right now.  All I can say is keep learning about yourself, make yourself better, and in the future you'll be able to weed out the potential bad partners.  

At the same time, I adore my kids and if this is the path I had to take to meet them, so be it.  All I can do now is to look forward and provide the safest, calmest, and most predictable home I can.

I have a lot of fear and dread.  I am steeling myself for the drama, but I am trying to keep my eyes focused on the horizon.

I think you have a very healthy outlook on this, and I feel the same way.  Don't look back in regret.  Drop whatever anger you may (justifiably) have, cherish your kids, provide the best home you can, deal with it, and move forward.  The kids will have to deal with a lot with a PD Mom, so the best you can do is be a stable Dad.  Mom will manipulate them with every chance, so just be stable and consistent without trash talking Mom, that's what they really need.

Speaking to the fear and dread - I could write a novel on my experience but I won't.  I'll just say that after all my fear and dread when I filed, I found that the best favor my ex could ever do for me was open her mouth.  I went from restraining orders and thinking I wouldn't see my kids again, to a signed agreement with 50/50 parenting within a few months.  Since then, teachers and therapists have come to see me as the stable one.  They don't say it outright, but it's clear after a few problems with Mom that they'd rather talk to me.  Stay calm, stay the course, and just focus on sending 18 year old kids into the world with a good head on their shoulders.  Don't get sucked into the small stuff.

And a big part of this is having a good lawyer on your side.  A smart, proactive, lawyer who knows how the courts would rule if it went to a judge, and one that isn't afraid to bark if the other side is claiming BS.  That's what worked for me, a smart lawyer who wasn't passive.  

Best of luck, friend!

[mart555]

And a big part of this is having a good lawyer on your side.  A smart, proactive, lawyer who knows how the courts would rule if it went to a judge, and one that isn't afraid to bark if the other side is claiming BS.  That's what worked for me, a smart lawyer who wasn't passive.  

And be ready for a shock if your lawyer knows how the courts would rule.   

My lawyer told me countless time that I'd be fine in another city but where I am, the judges are terrible and that these days with trials over video conference, it's even worse and is infuriating.  She said it was like playing the lottery and that they hand out lifetime spousal support like water.  That while I have a strong case, my odds of winning would be slim due to bias and that I'd have to spend a small fortune to get to play this lottery to have a remote chance of winning and would likely not get anything back in terms of costs because she makes 50% of my income. That even if I'm getting screwed from all sides (house price, stuff she stole, alimony that according to the law wouldn't be entitled to, ..) the large chunk of money going her way in various payments is the only way to get out of it while keeping my sanity.    She was blunt and said that if genders were reversed I'd be fine.  But saying that in court is a risk.

It's a harsh reality but in some cases the only thing you can do against an ex with BPD is limit damage.

[oh_hai]

Thanks again for sharing your experiences.

It will be interesting to see how it all plays out.  I'm actually also female, so there is a little less to go on when trying to predict what a judge might do...

[worriedStepmom]

I think you're making the right choice for the right reasons.  You have to protect your kids.

Because your kids are so little, you aren't going to be able to disconnect completely.  We use a parenting app (talkingparents; a lot of people use Our Family Wizard).  The court order says all communication has to go through that.  That's helped alleviate some of the harassment.

One of the most important things you can do right now is plan out what you want from the dissolution of your marriage.  In an ideal world, what would be the custody schedule?  How would you split the assets and debts?  What are you top priorities in a settlement?

And self-care is critically important.  Take time for you.  You need to take care of yourself to be a great mom to your kids.