Best way to handle aging BPD Mother?

[CG21]

Although I lived thousands of miles away, my mother is still able to trigger me via abusive, guilt-ridden messages, threats of disowning, bullying. Even though I know she's ill, I can't help but let it ruin my day/ week / month. I just want it to stop.

[zachira]

You are not alone in feeling terrible when you are mistreated by your aging BPD mother. You are wondering how to handle her so you are not so affected by her behaviors. Could you tell us a little more about your relationship with her? My mother with BPD died last year. At the end of her life, I would just quickly end the conversation, because I just could not take it anymore which considerably cut down on my distress. There are many people on this board with aging mothers who are here to listen and help.

[beatricex]

Hi CG,
Welcome to this board.  Please post more if you're comfortable.

My BPD'd mom has mellowed with age, and no longer does the guilt trips, bullying and disowning.  Well at least not with me.  I suspect she still does it but has honed her skills over the years and now it's much more sublte and directed mostly at the grandkids, I think.  I like to believe it's because i went no contact for about 7 years about a decade ago.  She knows not to push me.  I have worked really hard on boundaries, although I find it's still a Huge work in progress for me.

Last week, I didn't want to see my Mom "again for like the next year" I told my husband.   It was not that I wanted to announce this to her, I just wanted to drift away, and avoid her, so as to get some distance, peace and perspective.

Today i got a text message from my Dad (they're still married) and it said they want to drop their dog off at my house for a day.  After all the venting I did and putting my foot down (in my mind anyway), i just caved, just like that.  But I did visualize myself practicing boundaries with her, when she comes to drop the dog off.  I pictured myself doing a great job at this.  I'm trying to visualize mores successes, if this makes sense.  It's actually a technique my husband told me about and it's called the Silva Method.  I hope it works!

It's to help people like me feel calm and more centered, amid any stressor.

You are not alone, I feel the hurt and fear? in your post. 
((CG)

B

[Methuen]

You've got lots of company on this board CG.  We get it here. 

I just want it to stop.

Wouldn't that be amazing?  Hard to even imagine.  It can get better, though.  Not because she's going to change, but because we figure out some things we need to do to change up the dynamic.  How can we help you right now?

[Notwendy]

You can't control her behavior or what she says but the good news is that, you can learn to not be as reactive to it.

I know that is easier said and done, but the work is well worth it. I spent a lot of time working on co-dependency traits and getting better boundaries with my BPD mom. It's important to understand that boundaries are really about us, not the other person. The boundary isn't- " you will not say these things to me". It's a knowing that- just because she says it, doesn't mean it is true".

Because the relationship is so close, they can say things that we do take personally, but also consider that due to projection, what they say is likely to be more about them than you.

Having a firm boundary about who we are- what is really you, and what isn't you, is important. Someone can say anything about us. We have the ability to decide - is this true or not and if it isn't- then it's not true. Just because your mother ( or anyone else) says it, it doesn't make it true.

What helped me is to substitute what is being said with something absurd. If your mother called you a pink elephant would you get upset? You'd probably think that was strange. You are certain you are not an elephant. She can call you one all day long- and it would not make it true.

Hold that idea when she says something hurtful to you. I know it is hard to do, it is hurtful when people say mean things to us. We can't control what they say, but we can control how we react, and also to not take it as personally.

Eventually you will see some of these statements as more absurd than hurtful. We visited my BPD mom. It was all for her. In the middle of it she says "nobody does nice things for me". We made the effort to come see her and she says that?  Well maybe she said that but the reality is that it's not true and her thinking or saying it doesn't make it true.

Another important idea is to not JADE. This is a tool on this board- don't justify your position, try to explain or defend it. That just plays into the situation. If someone called you a pink elephant would you spend time trying to convince them that you are not? If you don't react to the statements, you disempower them.

I think it's natural to feel upset when people say mean things to us, but practicing these ideas can help diminish the effect of what your mother says, and help you respond without adding to the drama.

[CG21]

Wow, thanks everyone. I wasn't even sure about this place or if I was just shouting into the void.

It took me many years to unlock what was going on with her. Since I hit puberty I've been treated like an enemy. She was extremely abusive and critical. The screaming in our house went on for hours and I fought every single battle. I was a very vocal fighter of a teenager and wouldn't back down in the face of her insanity. She forced me to attend psychiatrists with reputations for 'breaking' difficult teens. My house was a place of hell. Extreme control and criticism (especially when it came to my weight).

Then as I began to truly come in to my own as a woman in my later college years, she threatened me that my actions were killing my father. The dad stuff has gone on for nearly 30 years at this point. She knows how close we are (they're still married) and she uses his health as a bargaining chip. Then she'll call the rest of the family and yell and scream at them. Round and round this goes.

I've done therapy. I'm back in it. But I can't stop being triggered. Even with my boundaries. I can't afford an addiction to valium and won't go down that road but at this late stage, what else can I do?

The whole family loves me and understands and supports me. They know how tough it's been. But I've got a grimm's fairytale of a mom goin' on and I can't do it.

[madeline7]

I struggled with being triggered for many years and figuring out how to set boundaries. Things changed dramatically when my dad passed away a few t=years ago and uBPDm moved closer to me and my siblings as she could not get along without family help. It's not that she really needed assistance but has a very dependent personality and could not manage. Things went not from bad to worse, rather they went from worse to nearly impossible. It has now been over 5 long years, and not only is she elderly, but I am no spring chicken either. So back to T I go, and I am finally putting the pieces of my life back together. Of course, she has not changed one bit, but I have. The issue for me currently is that even though I am aware of her manipulations, and in no way think I am responsible for her behavior, I find myself doing "mental gymnastics" to deal with her dysregulation, and that is very tiring and I just don't want to put forth that much effort. "I just want to live a free and entitled adult life". I read that somewhere, probably here on one of these amazing posts, and that is my new mantra. Keep up the work, and post here anytime.

[Notwendy]

If there was a silver lining to being triggered- it's that it's our emotions. We can't control someone else but we can control things on our side of the fence. What someone says might be the trigger, but then, how we react is our part in it.

If it's a learned response, we can unlearn it somewhat. I realize it is difficult- and it might not be that we can completely unlearn them, but we can make them less intense and also shorter over time with practice.

If the reaction is so tough that you feel you need medication, maybe it's better to take a break from your mother- increase the time between contact with her. Some people have gone no contact but I also think there is stress involved with that decision as well ( dealing with other family members and so on) but for some, that is the best move for them.

For me, I did what is called low contact- see her less often, and also limit the time I spend with her until I felt I could manage my own feelings better. Rather than be upset with the triggers, I could see that they were an opportunity to practice calming down. It does get better with practice, but go easy on yourself with the contact if it is too much.

Now, when she says something hurtful, it's not as difficult to let it go and the upset doesn't last as long. It's good that you are working with a T to help with this. Triggers are tough but working on them is something you can do for yourself as it helps in other situations as well. I find it difficult when people are angry at me, and working on this has helped me with those situations as well.

It's a work in progress- one small step at a time, at your own pace.

[CG21]

Thank you. If it weren't for my father, I'd cut off all contact as that's the way I am actually happy. But it's not possible. And with a traditional family (even though they won't admit it), there are inherited pressures on the daughter, especially a single daughter, to step up and do her familial duty. Really the only way is no contact, but I have no choice for now. It's at the point where I can't even stomach hearing about anyone else's family, or watching anything on television that delves into 'mom stuff'.

The best I can do is not give her any ammunition. She knows nothing about my personal life, very little of my career, and no information on my love life (since she's already been openly hostile to my parters and even caused my brother's first wife to leave him).

It does feel like my parents are ruining my life. To the outside world, I'm a fairly spoiled middle class 80s kid. But to those who know, I'm a severely abused person.

[zachira]

It sounds like your biggest challenge right now is wanting to heal from all the abuse yet not really being able to because your mother is still in your life and you cannot go no contact with her. You are doing what many of us have done which is to not tell your mother anything about your personal life so she has no ammunition. Be patient with the therapy as it takes time to feel better, especially when the abuser is still in your life. Many of us, including myself, have been to many years of therapy, and found it enormously helpful in becoming a happy healthier person while still having to deal with the affects of having an abusive mother. There is no such thing as writing too much or posting too often here. Reach out when you feel the need to be heard, to look for solutions, and we will be here for you.

[beatricex]

CG,
Something that I am finding helpful to me is making very small, easy to meet goals.  I make one each day.

Example:  today I signed up for this webinar.  It is about the Karpman Triangle, and getting off it.  It is about inverting the triangle, so instead of victim I become observer.  At least for one day...

https://www.lynneforrest.com/articles/2008/06/the-faces-of-victim/

It actually makes me sick to my stomach to work on this stuff, and I relate to your feeling of seeing "happy families" on TV, and feeling bad.  I too shutoff a lot.  Want to heal, though, I want to get better.

If I don't talk about this and face my demons, how am I going to become the person I want to be?

B

[Notwendy]

The Karpman triangle helped me to understand the dynamics in my family.

It's important to let go of victim perspective. This doesn't mean pretending that abusive behavior didn't happen. It did/does happen and it's important to be aware of that.

Victim perspective implies that one is helpless even if you were not at fault. You didn't deserve this, but victim perspective also keeps us from seeing what choices we might have in the relationship.

They may not be easy choices but they are choices nonetheless.

"My mother is a toxic person, and I choose to not be around her"

or "My mother is a toxic person but I love my father and so I will learn how to best take care of myself while maintaining contact with my parents".

Once you can own the choice- and then set yourself on the path of learning how to deal with her better ( this involves you, not her) you can begin to feel less like "she's ruining your life"

I also have boundaries with my mother. I don't share information that is emotional or personal- that makes me feel vulnerable. I don't share emotionally charged information or words. We can talk about a movie, or a book, or something neutral about the kids " kid's soccer team won today ( pre-Covid times no teams now)". It takes some practice to stay out of the drama, but it can get better.

If she says something hurful or mean to me- and it does happen, I know how to disengage and calm down better.  It may seem like a huge task, but one step at a time is how to handle that.

[CG21]

All your advice really helps. 

At this point my father is joining in on bullying me to apologize to my mother for an argument we had months ago. I'm refusing to do so. I'm just done. I will not grovel to a woman who has never apologized for anything in her life. So this might lead to a huge break in the family but I can't do it.

Therefore I am creating problems by not doing this simple thing. I've done PLEASE READ like this a million times, smoothed over perceived slights or purposely moved on from her bullPLEASE READ to keep the peace.

It's not me being stubborn (maybe a bit). It's me being just done with this nonsense of people demanding I kiss her ring. And it may cost me an inheritance.

[Notwendy]

The dynamics between your parents are long standing. Your father's main role has likely been her enabler and rescuer and this has created a strong bond, albeit a dysfunctional bond, between them. They are likely to be enmeshed.

Your father also has to live with her and you don't. Sometimes he would give in to her to get some peace.

My mother sees people as not on her side, or on her side. If she's angry at someone, whoever is on her side needs to choose. If she's angry at me, my father would step in to "rescue" her from me.

Growing up, I perceived my mother as the one with the problem and who was causing the problems. I thought my father was the good guy in the relationship and also perceived him as her victim of some sorts. He would have to do what she wanted.

But later this was puzzling. He earned all the money - she didn't- and yet, she controlled all of it. She controlled his relationship with me and she controlled him. She also controlled all of us with her moods. We kids were afraid of her.

But why? That was a mystery. She was completely financially dependent on my father and also emotionally and dependent on us to do things for her. She isn't able to do much on her own. She's severely BPD. Yet- strangely, she had all the power in the family.

While she is my mother, we don't have the usual mother-daughter emotional bond. She didn't really mother me. Once I was older, she treats me more like I am her servant than her child.

But my father- he was my parent ( he is deceased) and I loved him very much and that was the source of her control. I wanted a relationship with him and I wanted his approval. But the way to get that was to allow my mother to control me and tolerate her emotional abuse.

This is a tough choice. Yes, your inheritance is possibly on the line here. For me, it wasn't so much that- I don't think that was ever a consideration for my parents, but there were some sentimental items that belonged to my father that I did want. What was on the line was my relationship with him and when I did stand up to her, she insisted he choose.

I don't regret standing up for myself. I am sorry that it had to include my father being angry at me. I do wish I had known more about how to manage the relationship with a pwBPD and the Karpan triangle dynamics at the time but I didn't. I think I would have done the same thing- establish boundaries and not tolerate her behavior- but perhaps done it better.

So yes my advice to you is to learn more before making a big move so you understand the dynamics of how all this works. Your relationship with your father is impacted too. If the two of you are not close that may not be as difficult for you. You may also decide to emotionally distance and keep the peace. Yes, I am well familiar with these kinds of apology demands. What I imagine here is that she is getting on his case to make you do it ( she is in victim mode being persecutor) and he's in an odd way being in victim mode and asking you to "rescue" him by giving in. If you see this as dynamics it isn't as personal. These demands for an apology actually feel humiliating. It's awful.

I am not suggesting you give in to it, but there is some power in choosing either way. Sometimes if it's a short visit, I do give in, just to get through the time there. But I know I am doing it- I am choosing it which is different from feeling she's making me do it. But I also feel that it is a form of being inauthentic. It's not a sincere apology, it's placating her.

[CG21]

Wow we could be siblings. You just described this exactly. 

I am very close with my father who is now into his 80s. Because of Covid, I can't be there to help them out so mother is getting a lot of sympathy for doing housekeeping and other things to help him (she's in her late 70s).

Yes you're right, she's probably nagging him a lot and complaining about me. And he needs rescuing.

I was willing to ignore the fight she's still mad about and move on like we've done for years. But she's not this time. And you're correct, it is humiliating. I'm a grown woman with hopes and dreams of my own. I am not a slave to a terrible mother who, frankly, never mothered me much.

So you can hear in this message that I'm getting angry and almost triggered like a defiant teenager, but this goes beyond a 16 year old's temper. This has to stop. She's already thrown out a lot of my possessions over the years and even the one thing my grandmother (father's mother) left me in her will.  And the two of them expected me to be totally fine with that and never to mention it again. So... how many more times can this go on?

[Notwendy]

It's going to go on between the two of them. These dynamic are long standing. My parents may as well have been one person- the things my father said were exactly what she said too.

This bond between them is stronger than their bonds with you. This was a harsh reality for me. I thought of myself as a Daddy's girl. My Dad was everything and my kids adored him too.

One reason I put up strong boundaries was because my kids were getting old enough to be "useful" to BPD mom and she was starting to enlist them as her emotional caretakers and servants, just like she did with me. There was no way I would allow them to be treated the way I was treated. I thought my Dad would understand. I was wrong about that, or if he did understand he still went along with what she wanted, and he got angry at me.

This was the usual cycle and before, I would go along with her wishes to keep the peace and stay in Dad's good graces. But this time, it was my kids. The common cycle was for her ( and if she was angry so was Dad) to be furious with me for a while, say abusive things and then later act as if nothing happened. This time, Dad got angry, and stayed angry until the end of his life. My mother's "revenge" from her being angry at me split the family. She told her relatives not to speak to me and they complied. It was a very difficult time for me but the alternative- to allow her to use and manipulate my adolescent children, like she did me, was not something I would allow.

But in hindsight, I wish I had known more about BPD and the dynamics. I would not have felt so hurt by their behavior and would not have taken it personally. I think I would have been less surprised by their behavior had I understood the dynamics better. I guess we can only do the best we can with what we know. I think it helps to learn about BPD dynamics in families.

There is power in choosing. It takes you out of victim perspective. You can choose to play along- it's a sort of betrayal of who you are to do so, but it also clears the air. She's not going to let go of this - both from you and her constant insistant with your father. Your father is also in a sense betraying his own reality in order to have some peace and he lives with her all the time. You might consider doing this for his sake. It depends on what is at stake here for you. Or you can hold your own, but what is at risk here is continued hostility for a while. These are not easy choices.

The bond between two dysfunctional people is strongest when they are aligned against a common "persecutor" - as then neither of them are in conflict witheach other. For your mother to be in victim mode, and your father the rescuer, there needs to be someone or something he has to rescue her from. This issue they are having with you isn't all about the argument. It's the dynamics.

And also, my grandfather left me an heirloom. BPD mom kept it for years. She also held on to some things of my father's that were sentimental to me. She's thrown out a lot of my possessions, she did that even when I was a kid. She has even thrown out food I brought in their house that my Dad liked because I didn't ask her permission first.

[zachira]

You have decided you will not apologize to your mother and it may cost you your inheritance. I got to a similar point with my mother and siblings, and it cost me more emotionally than I could ever have imagined. I understand you have reached your limit and when you can't do it anymore, you can't. The revenge you can expect from your mother for you seeing her for who she is, could be much worse than any previous abuse.  Some of the youtube videos of Dr. Ramani about dealing with narcissists could be helpful in dealing with your mother when she goes on the war path. (Many people with BPD have strong narcissistic traits.) I hope you are in a position to be able to completely walk away, even though you love your father and are not going to do it, as being in this position can give you the inner strength to go forward no matter how badly your parents treat you, as they experience a more empowered daughter.

[CG21]

It is shocking how similar everyone's experiences are. 'Notwendy', you and I have nearly exact parents! Except for myself, I don't have children, but otherwise that's kind of the only difference.

It really helps to know that I'm not alone, or crazy. In the past many boyfriends have insisted I respect my parents because 'they love me', without acknowledging the differences of being a daughter in a patriarchal society and on top of that have a severely abusive mother. I was gaslit for decades.

Now I don't know what to do other than offer (again) to look past the argument mother is fixating on. I'm not apologizing. She can take it or leave it. As for the inheritance (whatever it is, no idea), I've accepted that she may and will disinherit me at any time for any reason going forward. There's no groveling or keeping the peace that will change that reality that she will continue to do whatever she can to actively hurt me.

As a child when the movie Mommy Dearest was on television it chilled me to the bone. Watching it in the den while mother was in the kitchen doing something, and me feeling trapped in a living nightmare.

[Notwendy]

Yes, Mommie Dearest was quite the movie. I have only seen scenes from it, not the whole thing. I am not sure I could watch all of it.

One option is neutral. Another term is "medium chill"- not reacting to their drama, not discussing anything emotional with them. I still talk to my mother- we can talk about a movie, or a book, or something in the news, but I don't add personal or emotional information. If she starts on me I cut the conversation short, not in a cruel way but " I need to go Mom, call you in a bit". After a while, the drama decreases because I don't react to it or add to it.

My mother uses what I call the "dry erase board" method of apology, which isn't really an apology. She gets mad, says or does mean things, then when she decides she's over it, it's like she erased her behavior and we are expected to act as if it didn't happen.

This isn't the way to help a relationship, but if you want to maintain contact, you can choose to let this issue just resolve on her time.

So as to the argument. It was a long time ago. You call your parents up as usual, hello how are you? They bring it up, you say "Oh, that? ". And they insist you apologize and you change the subject. If this seems inauthentic to you, it can be this boundary : You don't want to discuss it. You can stay true to that.

Use "I" language with your parents, not "you". So your father says " I insist you apologize to your mother". The tendency would be "after all she's done? no way"  but instead say. " aww Dad, I love you, let's not get into this".

You know that there's no resolution in discussing how you feel or your s'ide of the situation. It's not that this isn't important, it's that it won't make you feel better if you do and you can't make them understand, so if you wish to continue with some kind of communication with your parents, then maybe try the "medium chill" approach.

This is about the only way I know to maintain a relationship with my mother. It isn't the way to have a close relationship with anyone, but getting too close to my mother invites a difficult situation, I think for both of us. It's better if we don't get into emotional issues. It's not ideal, but it's about all I know to do as I still have contact with her,  but if we try to get into discussing difficult topics, it just doesn't work well for me.

I hope this helps you.

[formflier]

but getting too close to my mother invites a difficult situation

Combine this knowledge with general knowledge of BPD (close/intimacy = BPD issues) and hopefully this can help you depersonalize the things a pwBPD will often do.

Best,

FF

[beatricex]

Hi,
I am reading this thread amused, because it all sounds so much like my mother and father! 

anyway, I agree with all that has been said here, but wanted to ask a random question, since we're on the subject of weirdness.  I can't talk to too many people about this, as I only know one person in 3D with a BPD'd mom.

CG, NonWendy or anyone, does your BPD'd mom bring up something you bought them, as if it's valuable, only to minimize it? 
For example:  I gave my mom a mask for protection against COVID.  Later she showed up with masks "her friend made" minimized my mask, and explained in great detail how her new homemade masks were "the best out there," and proceeded to give me one of her masks that her friend made.  She emphazied "FRIEND" a lot, as if to remind me, I have no friends.

I was looking at her mask, comparing it to mine, the difference is like a mercedes compared to a yugo.  LOL

I humored her and let her think her mask (and the fact she has a friend) makes her superior.   I can think of more examples, but this is just one.

any similiar Stories ?

b
 

[Methuen]

CG, NonWendy or anyone, does your BPD'd mom bring up something you bought them, as if it's valuable, only to minimize it?  
For example:  I gave my mom a mask for protection against COVID.  Later she showed up with masks "her friend made" minimized my mask, and explained in great detail how her new homemade masks were "the best out there," and proceeded to give me one of her masks that her friend made.  She emphazied "FRIEND" a lot, as if to remind me, I have no friends.

I get it! You are not alone.   Your example actually made me laugh.  Early in the pandemic I made a mask for my mom that replicated the "look" of a medical mask because my mom was a trained nurse, and I thought she would like it.  She was delighted when I gave it to her.  A few days later, a friend gave her a mask, and she then made a REALLY big deal about the mask that her friend gave her.  I said nothing and just changed the subject.  Her friend's mask is the mask she wears.  I have never seen her wear the mask I made her.  I am so used to that kind of stuff, I just have come to expect it.   Understanding BPD helps me to not take these things personally. She can choose to wear whatever mask she wants.  I can still feel good about the intent of my actions.

[Notwendy]

Yes  but I don't usually give her different material things for that reason- she finds something wrong with them.

For occasions, I send flowers, or something like a fruit basket. I have no idea what she does with them, whether she likes them or not.

But if I do something for her, she finds something wrong with it.

If I take out the trash, I have not put the trash cans in the right place on the curb.

If I buy groceries I bought the wrong brand, or the wrong kind.

If I offer advice she dismisses it and then says " my hairdresser's second cousin's brother says this is the best place so that's where I am going".

We offered to have a birthday lunch for her at a restaurant we picked out and she had to change the restaurant to something else.

I don't dare use her pots or pans in the kitchen because she will say I scrached one or didn't clean it right. But anyone else doing it would be the best.

It's best to not take this kind of thing personally.

[CG21]

I don't get anything material for my parents either. Mother would just frown at it. I did get them a gift certificate for a fancy restaurant a few years ago and agonized over just the right place. She never mentioned it, although my father was very happy.

She does brag about her friends all the time, and their daughters. Constantly comparing how wonderful these (non-existent?) daughters are.

Now she's taken to bragging about my first cousin's child who is in school to become a vet. She goes on and on and on about this precious perfect young man and how hard he works, etc... Mind you, never her own children. She despises us. And myself and my sibling have never met this kid, and his mother is now actively kissing my mother's ass in the hopes she can get money from her. & this kid who is our close relative has never once reached out or tried to get to know me or my sibling despite being close with my parents.

It's all a big mess, mother only responds to people who have money, are dutiful, and kiss her ass. These people are not close enough to her to be abused.

[Notwendy]

Mine does things like that too. It helps to keep in mind the ideas of projection/denial. PwBPD have a poor sense of self and their self image tends to depend on things external to them. A close family member can be the one the pwBPD projects their uncomfortable feelings on to, and another person can be the "all good" one. They have a tendency towards "black and white " thinking. There isn't a gray where people can be both good and also have their flaws. It is all or none.

The vet student happens to be the all good one for now. That doesn't necessarily last as these roles can change but it can. In return the student now supplies the admiration for the positive self image your mother seeks. These relationships can be a use-use situation- each person is gaining something they want from the other.

I think what is frustrating is that we don't want this kind of relationship with our parents. We want a close, caring, family connection. Sadly, I think my mother would want this too, however, due to BPD, she is triggered to be emotionally and verbally abusive to the people she might have this with. I don't think she is acting this way because she doesn't love her family and would rather love more distant aquaintances. I think she is ovewhelmed by her own feelings. It's sad.

This doesn't mean we tolerate abusive behavior, but also we should not take it personally.