Will she ever come back? It's been over 9 months now...

[Boz96]

So here goes...

There was a girl who had a major crush on me when we were in 6th grade and flirted with me in a way that I wasn't comfortable with and I rejected her every time as a result. I never gave a reason why though but she never actually asked me if I wanted to be together and it's not like we were friends then either so her flirting came off really weird.

Anyways, we went to junior high together too and again didn't really interact much, but we did become friends on FB in high school although we constantly lost touch because we were in different schools at that point and didn't see each other much anymore.

My mom gave me a disc in summer 2018 that had all the pictures from our 6th grade year and the nostalgia brought me back to a fun time in my life, especially given how lonely and depressed I was for years by the time I saw it. I saw her on it and started wondering about reaching out to her to see how she was doing because I always liked her but just couldn't be with her back then because of her weird flirting, my shyness around girls, and not knowing how my family would react to her (she's black, I'm white). I wasn't sure if I'd get a response but I did and we ended up reconnecting which at first sounded great. But very quickly things turned sour because she told me how she had just split with her ex (she was with this guy since freshman year in HS, btw) after he cheated on her and now she was cheating on him with a 42 year old married man and so on, lots of drama that honestly caught me out completely at that point. I continued talking to her and pursuing the friendship but gave up on it a couple weeks later when she kept antagonizing me repeatedly when I told her to stop and just stopped talking to her.

4 months later, my mom passed away and she contacted me that night which surprised me because I didn't think I'd hear from her again. I decided to give her another chance as a friend because I felt maybe she was just going through a lot in the summer and she was so maybe it was just a bad time. She agreed to it but said we'd only talk once a month because she was going to try things out with her ex again (not for the first time, I learned later on).

Fast forward to last October and she told me she broke up with him again for the last time and we started talking on a daily basis again like we did 2 summers ago. This time things went much better and we got to know each other well through texting and although we had the odd spat, we genuinely got along well and seemed like we were headed for becoming good friends. In the midst of that though, I asked her if she'd be interested in being together because I was just enjoying our conversations and her support for me after losing my mom and being depressed and I started to become emotionally invested in her. I didn't want to lose my shot while she was single but she turned it down saying she wasn't ready for another relationship after 8 years in her previous one which was understandable, although later on she said she really just didn't know and it wasn't an outright no. She also said that she only saw herself with a black man but read on...

Christmas Eve last year we met up and saw each other for the first time in years at a park and we had a great day. So great that she asked me the next day if I wanted to be together. I didn't expect that because I just settled into the mindset of being friends recently and gave up on being with her but now I had my chance. I agreed to it and now we found ourselves in a spot of not really being friends, not really together, but somewhere in between.

Then everything quickly went downhill. She said something that triggered me on NYE and made me feel suicidal but I calmed down. 2 days later we met up and she asked if she was the one who triggered me, I said no because I didn't want things to get off to a bad start between us although I knew she did, and she said she felt like it was still her who did. We spent 6 hours in her car that evening and she ended up kissing me at the end which caught me off guard and told me how aroused she was afterwards.

The next night she then told me she didn't want to be together because I wasn't her type. This PISSED me off so much. 10 hours together, over a year of friendship and being best friends, and all the arousal chat, and now I'm not her type? Who says that to someone that close to them? I ended up saying I don't want to even be friends anymore which set her off on a run of 12 messages in under a day apologizing, self hating, and crying for forgiveness. I ended up forgiving her the next day and asked if we could meet up again the following week and if I could please her sexually because our kissing got me more invested emotionally than I already was and my high sex drive and porn/masturbation addiction didn't help either.

Again we spent 6 hours in her car and had sex at the end of the night which is the night I lost my virginity now. After that I decided I need to take some time away from seeing her because we just went from friends to car sex in just 2 weeks and felt like things were moving too fast. We didn't see each other for another 3 weeks but in that time I blocked her twice on IG and her number because she kept hurting me with insensitive comments and refusing to apologize or even acknowledge my pain over it. Both times she ended up emailing me afterwards which is really weird because I don't even know how she got access to my email...

After feeling my mental health plummet in January, I decided 2 days before our scheduled day long hangout at her house for Superbowl Sunday to tell her I just want to stay friends and not pursue a relationship anymore (which at that point I didn't feel was a legit pursuit since all she wanted to do was sext every day and ask oddly timed questions about kids' names and whatnot). She wished me well and agreed to staying friends but when I went to her house we ended up having sex 3 times because there was nothing else to do really with just a TV in her room and that drew me back in emotionally and got me wanting to pursue a relationship again. On the way back home she blared loud obnoxious music in the car for no reason and wouldn't turn it down no matter what I said. Just being immature I guess but she said that wasn't it later on.

Btw, both times we had sex I thought I cummed in her and ended up paying for pregnancy pills for her but afterwards I don't think I did. I didn't cum at all actually, I just struggled orgasming in real sex because I was only conditioned to porn and my hand. She thought I was legit trying to get her pregnant which I don't know why she would when I clearly said I don't want to be together. I just couldn't read my body well during sex out of inexperience I guess.

After that day, I only saw her 2 more times before we stopped talking for good. In between the Superbowl day and the next time, we had an argument where she said she was talking to her friend about me but wouldn't tell me what was said when I asked and called me PLEASE READing dramatic. This pissed me off and I told her to not talk to me until she was ready to give me my remote back that I left in her car on accident. Her birthday was later that weekend and I didn't send her a message although in hindsight that probably just made things worse on my part. I was just so mad at her.

2 days later and she was ready to give me my remote and I kept debating all day if I should give her something for her birthday and chat with her or just take my remote, leave, and move on. I decided to do the former in the end and gave her a journal so she can start writing down her feelings and thoughts like she told me wanted to do at some point. We sat in her car for 4 hours and she apologized for cursing me out but her whole demeanor towards me was completely different and she kept saying how she wanted to go home but I kept saying let's just chill together. I couldn't be around her without trying to be intimate physically even though I knew we had to just stay friends. I still held out hope we could be together though for some reason. I gave her another day to think about things and she said she just wants to be friends. I felt like I couldn't go back to being friends at that point anymore and said it was over between us and I'm moving on.

After 6 days of no contact, I texted her one night that I wanted to kill myself after my dad pissed me off and she rushed over from work and stayed in the parking lot telling me to come out but I refused. She ended up calling the police which shocked me and they ended up coming to take me to a clinic while she went home. I called her to pick me up at 4 am and she did (she lived 45 minutes away btw) and took me to her house where I stayed for a day. She told me in the car that she was about to cut me off if I was mad about her calling the police but I wasn't and I said she did the right thing because I probably needed that scary experience sadly at that point.

The whole day I tried to talk to her so we could straighten things out and go back to being friends but she just refused, thinking I'm just trying to argue and it was like this every time no matter how I approached the situation. I just gave up and stayed quiet until she took me home the next day. After that I wasn't sure what would happen between us and my birthday was 2 days later which she did message me on and she said she was still thinking about what to do about us at that point. 3 days later and she said she'll talk to me once a month again until she feels safe and will talk to me more if she needs to, which I accepted at first.

A week later and I felt like she was just trying to distance herself when I needed her most and after a brief argument, I called her a bitch and she said she was done. I apologized the next day and she wished me well and told me she hopes I get help because mental health is no joke. I left her alone for a month and a half and tried to send an extensive apology and tried to make amends but she just ignored it. I decided to follow her on IG a week later because I felt like even if she doesn't want to talk doesn't mean I can't keep up with her life but quickly realized it was a mistake because she just posted petty stories for 2 weeks, including one of another guy with a kiss emoji which means I guess she rebounded quickly. I unfollowed her and stopped giving her attention completely and haven't done so in 7 months since. She did look at my stories once on Blackout Tuesday and nothing since which I guess shows that she thinks that me cursing her out was an act of racism. I don't know why she tells herself these lies and believes them. I should also throw in here that she constantly called me controlling and manipulative because I kept suggesting to her healthier habits she could incorporate into her life. Part of that was me trying to change her I'll admit, but it was more so out of being a concerned friend and seeing her be so self-destructive with stories like drinking so much she passed out at a bar, one night stands with random guys at 3 am after her ex, and not having money for bills because she spent $200 on some festival (which I gave her money for the bills and didn't ask for anything in return).

Now, I believe that I'm a BPD but undiagnosed still and I think she is one as well. I know she wished me well in life after I cursed her before she left but she never blocked me and she viewed my stories later on clearly, so will she ever come back and speak to me? We were good friends before this whole fiasco so surely she'll remember that some day or will she stay away out of fear of the bad things. It's also interesting that she didn't retaliate in words after what I said, maybe she's just trying to leave the door open for a reconnection and not burn bridges? I don't know anymore. I'm still struggling to get over her as I think about her daily even 9 months later and I truly don't know what I'll do if she comes back, but I do still wonder whether she will or not.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[formflier]

I'm curious to know more about your concerns that both of you may be BPD.

Have either one of you been evaluated or diagnosed by a mental health professional?

Have you ever done therapy?

When you think of self care, what does that look like for you?

Best,

FF

[Boz96]

We both had an intense fear of abandonment and would panic a lot whenever the other one threatened to leave, we both had a lot of bad relationships and dysfunctional families growing up, we both got attached and detached very easily, we both clearly were burning alive internally because we were self destructing on the inside while remaining calm and quiet on the outside usually, and so on. We were like mirror images of each other in a lot of aspects although our personalities and distorted thoughts were quite different. I knew something seemed similar about us back then, but I didn't know what. I thought maybe she was a soulmate, but I think it just goes down to similar mental problems, codependency, and so on.

Neither of us have been diagnosed or gone to therapy. She seems to be playing the victim and continuing on as before, but I'm trying to get help although it's very hard to find someone in my budget and a good fit because I'm not working.

I don't think of self care .

[formflier]

I don't think of self care .

Hey...good job on a quick reply.

I would encourage you to read several articles on BPDfamily.

Starting with

https://www.bpdfamily.com/content/what-does-it-take-be-relationship


I would also encourage you to take this time apart to focus on improving your relationships skills.  One of the ways to do this is finding a therapist that you feel comfortable with.  Once you think you have found a match, I would encourage you to be open about your concerns and let the therapist take it from there.

Have you ever considered gaining more insight about how you approach relationships?

Best,

FF

[Boz96]

I've been looking for a therapist for 2 months but can't find one that fits my budget and needs. I don't know what to do anymore because I'm starting to lose hope.

Yes, I have, I hope to learn a lot about having better relationships, but my intense symptoms are making it hard for me to function daily and I seriously need help but don't know how to get it for reasons stated above.

[once removed]

in order to revive the relationship you would have to approach it as if it were a completely new relationship - blank slate - with a very different game plan.

there was a great deal of conflict between the two of you. the key to a successful relationship isnt necessarily how much conflict you have (some of the happiest, healthiest couples have a lot) but how you navigate it.

[Boz96]

Yeah um I don't think anything I do now can fix our relationship. She's shown no signs of working things out so far and she had a massive ego over anything back then so I can only imagine it's like a balloon by now over this. If she convinced herself that I'm racist for cursing her (idk how but w/e) and painted me black, then there's nothing I can do.

But she did handle the aftermath of me cursing her calmly, she didn't block me, and she peeked at my stories 3 months after our last conversation. She also used to always say that I was special, treated her like no one had ever done before in a good sense, and that she cared about me deeply. I know with BPDs things can change in a flash, but could she really hate me forever and stay away for good? Especially given we're both in our early 20s, surely there's hope some day for some sort of interaction to at least make amends?

[formflier]

Hey...I'm more interested in how you navigate conflict, because that will also affect how you "view" conflict and how much you tolerate in a relationship.

Perhaps you can be a better example to this gal...or someone else in the future.

Best,

FF

[Boz96]

How do you mean?

[formflier]

How do you mean?

I would hope that you could look back and gain insight about how you conducted yourself when conflict arose and find more healthy ways to do conflict (which is inevitable). 

Often times pwBPD and/or the relationship will improve by changing the way conflict is handled.

Are there points in your story where you wish you had done conflict differently?

Best,

FF

[Boz96]

Yes there are but only at the end honestly, instead of cursing her out. I should have either ended the friendship amicably or asked if we could take an extended break before resuming contact.

There were other things she complained about, like saying I was controlling and manipulative and that I was trying to change her. I can see where she was coming from but it wasn't my intention, at least not entirely. She was engaging in self destructive behaviors when we became close friends like the ones I mentioned in OP and I kept suggesting to her to take up healthier habits like meditation, exercise, nutrition, etc. and offered to help her with them. I also told her if we were to be together, I don't want her to smoke weed. I can see why these things came off the way they did to her, but I kept telling her my intentions weren't bad. That's why I wanted us to have conversations and communicate with each other so we can come to an understanding, but every time I tried to do that she'd avoid the subjects or say that I'm just trying to argue, yet would blame me every time she didn't like something or would put a wall up and make it harder to reach her. That's why it got to the point where I cursed her out. I shouldn't have done it, but it was impossible to have a normal friendship/relationship with her constantly doing things her way and never wanting to communicate, even though it was clearly important to me and hurt my feelings that she didn't want to do it.

[Boz96]

So what should I do? Will she ever come back?

[once removed]

So what should I do? Will she ever come back?

the question is, if she does, will you be prepared.

in your posts, you dont express a great deal of confidence that she will be back. and you may be right. the two of you ended badly. things werent resolvable. its easier, at that point, to move on.

do you want her to come back? then you probably need to make some sort of move. at this point, there arent a lot of moves that are any sort of guarantee. the best move would be to send her a very short, warm note, that opens the door.

[Boz96]

the question is, if she does, will you be prepared.

in your posts, you dont express a great deal of confidence that she will be back. and you may be right. the two of you ended badly. things werent resolvable. its easier, at that point, to move on.

do you want her to come back? then you probably need to make some sort of move. at this point, there arent a lot of moves that are any sort of guarantee. the best move would be to send her a very short, warm note, that opens the door.

Things were and I believe still are resolvable. Where things become unlikely is her actually apologizing and taking responsibility for her part in how the relationship went/ended and agreeing to actually talk and work things out with me. That'll never, ever happen and her giant ego will make sure of it. And it's probably for the best. I'm still waiting on the girl from HS, who told me she didn't care if I committed suicide a month after I told her about my thoughts, to apologize even though we've spoken since and nothing. That was 6 years ago. So no hope on this one either.

I already sent that message 2 months after we last spoke and nothing but petty attempts to try and make me jealous. 8 months of zero contact now and as much as I miss her sometimes, I know that I'm not just taking back that person who felt good sometimes, I'd take back the whole thing and it's not worth it. The problem is what if she actually does come back, I don't know if I'd handle it well or if my feelings of not wanting her back would be strong enough and maybe I'd convince myself to give it another shot. Hopefully I'm strong enough...

[formflier]

So what are you going to be doing over the next little while (months) to make sure you are prepared for when contact is re-established?

Best,

FF

[Boz96]

So what are you going to be doing over the next little while (months) to make sure you are prepared for when contact is re-established?

Best,

FF

You think she'll come back? I feel unsure about that.

I've already started therapy, 3 sessions in and I'm in it for the long run. So I'm trying to find a better path forward.

[formflier]

"Recycles" are a very very common thing in these relationships, so it would not shock me.

The important thing is for you to work on yourself...regardless of recycle status.

Plus...be open to it but don't "chase after it".

Best,

FF

[Boz96]

"Recycles" are a very very common thing in these relationships, so it would not shock me.

The important thing is for you to work on yourself...regardless of recycle status.

Plus...be open to it but don't "chase after it".

Best,

FF

Well I deleted all my social media a few weeks ago so unless she still has my number or email that she used to contact me before, she can't reach me. I don't think it's likely but who knows.

Do you really think I should be open to it after reading the story above? What's the logic behind being open to letting her back?

I checked her IG profile once in the last 6 months, but haven't shown my name to her at all by following her, looking at her stories, etc. in 9 months now. I'm not chasing her.

[once removed]

Do you really think I should be open to it after reading the story above? What's the logic behind being open to letting her back?

youre posting on the "Bettering a Relationship or Reversing a Breakup" board 

so long as youre doing that, youre going to receive advice and strategies on how to do so in a healthy manner.

if youre done, and want to grieve or examine a failed relationship, Detaching is that board.

[Boz96]

youre posting on the "Bettering a Relationship or Reversing a Breakup" board 

so long as youre doing that, youre going to receive advice and strategies on how to do so in a healthy manner.

if youre done, and want to grieve or examine a failed relationship, Detaching is that board.

I'm kinda in both boats, I'm done but I'm not sure how I'd handle it if she came back because I still care about her.

I just want to hear what reason there is to be open to her if she does come back, given everything that happened. Maybe someone has a good reason for that which doesn't come to mind for me.

[Gemsforeyes]

Hey Boz-

You’ve been through a lot, and for such a young man you have a great amount of insight.  Please be proud of yourself for that... and for recognizing that you needed and wanted help... AND for persevering until you FOUND a therapist. 

It takes a very strong person to do that, to build a foundation for a more emotionally healthy future when you face your therapist with full honesty.  I’d also point out that most people who have BPD would NOT admit to even traits of the disorder (many ppl have traits but NOT the disorder).  And lots of folks without BPD experience fear of abandonment.

Regardless, sticking with your therapy is paramount for you.  That IS self-care.  And so are all of the healthy “habits” you believe in...

As for your friend / girlfriend... just because a relationship goes quiet or silent does not mean your care for that person disappears.  We can still care for an “other” but know that the relationship holds unhealthy things for us as it “was”.  And if it were to be as it “was”, we could not and would not re-enter the relationship.  That would serve no purpose.

You, Boz, are working on your emotional and mental health.  Maybe she is and maybe she isn’t doing the same.  Who knows?  So IF she were to come back EXACTLY as she was before, with the work you’re doing you may find that her behaviors are no longer of interest to you.  You can still care, but you don’t have to be involved with her. Even if she tries to pull you in.

People whose behaviors are unappealing can certainly lose their overall attractiveness, including how they physically look to you.  This I know from experience.

Your thoughts?

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

[once removed]

I just want to hear what reason there is to be open to her if she does come back, given everything that happened. Maybe someone has a good reason for that which doesn't come to mind for me.

Boz, respectfully,

you have posted multiple times that you think she has no reason to come back and doubt she will. you are now posting that if she did, youre not sure why you would take her back.

step one to reversing a breakup is determining what you want; what your goals are.

step two is understanding what went wrong in the relationship and how its going to be solved if you were to get back together.

after a month of posting, i dont see you engaging with either of those steps in a serious way. thats okay. when i was going through my breakup i really wasnt sure what i wanted. i wanted my ex to come back, but i wasnt, at the end of the day, really sure that i wanted the relationship back, if that makes sense. wed been through a lot, and it was a lot to come back from.

will your ex come back? why should you take her back? these arent questions that we can necessarily answer with any certainty. if youre posting on the Bettering/Reversing a Breakup board, the question is "if she does, whats going to change, and how are you going to lead that change?". it is my sense that if she did come back, nothing between the two of you would change at all and youd be going at each other in no time, in even greater pain.

my advice? if you want her back, do the work of understanding what it would take to maintain a healthier version of the relationship. if you want to grieve and vent, post on Detaching.

[Goosey]

Inheritance on the mind.
Cash allows shopping.
Credit always in the toilet with em.
(Lock it down) worth the monthly fee. 
Like cobras on money. Focused to strike.

[Boz96]

Hey Boz-

You’ve been through a lot, and for such a young man you have a great amount of insight.  Please be proud of yourself for that... and for recognizing that you needed and wanted help... AND for persevering until you FOUND a therapist. 

It takes a very strong person to do that, to build a foundation for a more emotionally healthy future when you face your therapist with full honesty.  I’d also point out that most people who have BPD would NOT admit to even traits of the disorder (many ppl have traits but NOT the disorder).  And lots of folks without BPD experience fear of abandonment.

Regardless, sticking with your therapy is paramount for you.  That IS self-care.  And so are all of the healthy “habits” you believe in...

As for your friend / girlfriend... just because a relationship goes quiet or silent does not mean your care for that person disappears.  We can still care for an “other” but know that the relationship holds unhealthy things for us as it “was”.  And if it were to be as it “was”, we could not and would not re-enter the relationship.  That would serve no purpose.

You, Boz, are working on your emotional and mental health.  Maybe she is and maybe she isn’t doing the same.  Who knows?  So IF she were to come back EXACTLY as she was before, with the work you’re doing you may find that her behaviors are no longer of interest to you.  You can still care, but you don’t have to be involved with her. Even if she tries to pull you in.

People whose behaviors are unappealing can certainly lose their overall attractiveness, including how they physically look to you.  This I know from experience.

Your thoughts?

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

I agree with almost every word. Thanks for your kind post!

I'm glad I seeked out therapy as well, but it's going to be a long road. Self-care and healthy habits are not something in my dictionary in my 25 years so far. Nor were they in my family. It's hard to develop habits that stick as you get older as well but hopefully I can manage it one day.

As for the girl, I've pretty much made my mind up at this point that I'm not interested in a friendship anymore unless she becomes self-aware, apologizes for her behavior, and shows clear improvement in her life and what she puts into her relationships. Otherwise it'll just be the same thing again. And even then I wouldn't be close to her again, just more of an acquaintance level relationship. But most of this is very very unlikely to happen given her ego, lack of self awareness, and abusive past. She's a smart girl but I'm not sure she'll really ever change her destructive ways. I hope for her sake that she does though.

I think I will always care about her but I'm not sure if I could get involved or respond to her again. But in any case, I'm alright without her and I can get better over time as I keep improving.

[Boz96]

Boz, respectfully,

you have posted multiple times that you think she has no reason to come back and doubt she will. you are now posting that if she did, youre not sure why you would take her back.

step one to reversing a breakup is determining what you want; what your goals are.

step two is understanding what went wrong in the relationship and how its going to be solved if you were to get back together.

after a month of posting, i dont see you engaging with either of those steps in a serious way. thats okay. when i was going through my breakup i really wasnt sure what i wanted. i wanted my ex to come back, but i wasnt, at the end of the day, really sure that i wanted the relationship back, if that makes sense. wed been through a lot, and it was a lot to come back from.

will your ex come back? why should you take her back? these arent questions that we can necessarily answer with any certainty. if youre posting on the Bettering/Reversing a Breakup board, the question is "if she does, whats going to change, and how are you going to lead that change?". it is my sense that if she did come back, nothing between the two of you would change at all and youd be going at each other in no time, in even greater pain.

my advice? if you want her back, do the work of understanding what it would take to maintain a healthier version of the relationship. if you want to grieve and vent, post on Detaching.

Of course things wouldn't be the same. At the time she was in my life I knew nothing about mood and personality disorders, manipulation, gaslighting, etc., all these things. I wasn't very self-aware with my own behavior either and how some harmful things I was doing was subconscious. Now I'm far more aware of all these things and I'm only getting better at understanding them. So there's no chance I'd let myself get close to her and involved again like before without seeing such similar serious changes on her part, which I doubt would happen. I guess my only dilemma is whether I'd want to speak to her if she reached out and let her know about the things I learned and how I feel it applies to her behavior and help her get the treatment she needs if she's open to it. Otherwise I'm not really interested in any kind of relationship without those aforementioned changes on her side. I don't want to just have people around out of loneliness anymore or let my loneliness guide me, I want healthy relationships with respectful, compatible people and unless she changes, she isn't one of them. Doesn't mean I still don't care about her and would love to steer her in the right direction if and only if she's serious about getting better.