I want to breakup

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

I am 7 months into a relationship with a BPD person. I'm brand new here and don't know all of the acronyms.
I was friends with her for an entire year prior, and somehow did not realize or pick up on her condition. As soon as our status changed, the nightmare began.
I wanted out very quickly after seeing it, but she kept clinging to me. I had never experienced anyone like this before, who would want to keep me in a relationship I didn't want to continue with. I just can't relate to her mentality.
She has used emotional blackmail, blame, threats, ultimatums. She really scares me.
We do not live together, and I have considered just moving to a new apartment in a different neighborhood, breaking up by text (I don't feel safe in person), and then changing my number.
But even then, social media being what it is, I feared her making public posts defaming me and affecting my life.
She has previously threatened to show up at my place of work and make a scene and badmouth me.
I wish more than anything that she would just let me go.
Has anyone else experienced something similar and succeeded in getting out of it?
There is much more to this story, but I'm not yet comfortable posting all the details, even anonymously.
I would love any input, but if someone is willing to chat in private as well and has real experience with this, and will be non-judgemental, that would be wonderful.
Thank you all.

[andrew77]

I am 7 months into a relationship with a BPD person. I'm brand new here and don't know all of the acronyms.
I was friends with her for an entire year prior, and somehow did not realize or pick up on her condition. As soon as our status changed, the nightmare began.
I wanted out very quickly after seeing it, but she kept clinging to me. I had never experienced anyone like this before, who would want to keep me in a relationship I didn't want to continue with. I just can't relate to her mentality.
She has used emotional blackmail, blame, threats, ultimatums. She really scares me.
We do not live together, and I have considered just moving to a new apartment in a different neighborhood, breaking up by text (I don't feel safe in person), and then changing my number.
But even then, social media being what it is, I feared her making public posts defaming me and affecting my life.
She has previously threatened to show up at my place of work and make a scene and badmouth me.
I wish more than anything that she would just let me go.
Has anyone else experienced something similar and succeeded in getting out of it?
There is much more to this story, but I'm not yet comfortable posting all the details, even anonymously.
I would love any input, but if someone is willing to chat in private as well and has real experience with this, and will be non-judgemental, that would be wonderful.
Thank you all.

[andrew77]

Wanted to add:
I'm 43, she's 50.
I tried to have some distance, and explained I felt stressed, pressured, and sometimes didn't feel like being around her. I visited once or twice during a two week period, and to her, this was the worst time of her life.
She actually said to me"you'll never know how I suffered alone during those two weeks. I've been violently assaulted before, and your not coming over or texting or calling was more painful than that."
She went to the ER during that time for extreme panic attacks. She's had them in front of me in response to me simply saying I don't feel safe or comfortable in the relationship.
Suddenly she was prostrate on the floor, unable to speak or breathe, and opening the door for some air and attempting to vomit. All from just me saying that.
I kept hoping that telling her how I felt would lead to the discussion I want to have which would lead to a breakup with any non. But I have no experience with someone with BPD.
I really just want to walk away from this more than anything in the world.

[andrew77]

One encouraging thing is, if it's true, she claims that her ex-husband left her for another woman who he got pregnant, and that she never did anything vindictive. She supposedly met him at a restaurant, signed the divorce papers, and didn't ask for alimony or anything.
If this is true, it is encouraging, but who knows? I have looked at her older Facebook posts, and I don't see any badmouthing of her ex at all. There are pictures of them together, and then there aren't, with no public discussion by her or anyone else of the divorce.
As callous as this sounds, I'm mostly concerned for my own safe exit from this right now. My compassion for her has dwindled since her blackmail and threats. To me, once someone has done that, they have behaved as an enemy to me and it's my only concern to protect myself.
I don't like that she's suffering, in as much as I don't like that any human being anywhere should suffer, but no more than that.
She pushes me every time I see her. "Be affectionate. Kiss me. Hold me. Let go of the past. Change your feelings. Really try and work on this because I do. I could really, really hate you for what you've done to me(like what? Staying away when I couldn't take it anymore? Allowing experience to affect my feelings? Not feeling how she deems correct?), but I don't allow myself to. Whenever I have a bad thought about you, I cancel it with a good one. You don't do that. You CHOOSE to linger in these negative thoughts. It IS a choice.".
To me, this is all crazy talk. I've never encountered anything like it, and nothing I've tried has had an effect on getting her closer to accepting the idea of breaking up.
All I want is a safe exit without her taking revenge on me through defamation, slander, false accusations, or even self-harm.
Maybe I'm overthinking or overreacting, but I want to prepare myself against any possibilities.
I'm unfamiliar with this stuff and from reading here, it can get more ugly than I can imagine.
As I said, I have thought of just getting a new apartment in a new neighborhood, sending a text that basically just says "Look, I just don't want to continue with this relationship. It's over and that's my decision for my own life. I don't have to continue with something I don't want. I don't want to try anymore and I don't have to. You just need to accept that it's over. I've left town to go back where I came from and I wish you peace and healing". and that's it.
If she happens to see me in town 6 months or a year from now, hopefully she'll have calmed down or moved on, but if not, someone shouting in the street from a distance isn't looked at too kindly and I can just avoid her as much as I'd avoid a homeless person shouting at me in a park.
Am I being naive in thinking a way out can be this simple?
Again, my main concern right now is her threats to smear me. She has since claimed that she never really intended to do that, would never do that, and that it was just an act of desperation to get my attention when I had stayed away for those two weeks.
I never know what i can believe though.
Also, as long as I put on a happy act and go along with what she wants, we actually do make it through a visit with no issue. Issues only arise when I try to talk about how I feel in an attempt to pave the way to being able to have a breakup talk, but she then goes nuts or has a panic attack or we get stuck in some go-nowhere talk, round and round in circles of blame, victim talk, threats etc.
I realize I have it much easier than many of you on this board who live with the person, have children, are married to them, etc. But from where I sit, this mistake of mine is costing me peace of mind, productivity and focus, sleep, everything.
Please help me figure out how to get out of this.

[B53]

Andrew77,
I’m so sorry to hear what you’re going through. You are lucky in the fact that she didn’t get into your head and you wanting to continue the unhealthy attachment that BPD’s tend to have on a lot of us.
Can you get a restraining order? Maybe find a way to put something in motion ahead of time, so when she tries to put things on social media, it will look like what it is, a smear campaign. Get the word out before she does.
 Good luck!
B53

[andrew77]

B53-
Thanks for your reply.
I've looked into restraining orders, and at least where I am, they're not so simple. You have to show proof of threats or danger, and to get a permanent one you actually have to go through having a hearing with her present and able to make a case for herself. I'd just be asking her to start a smear campaign in that case when there might not even be one.
You say "when" she puts stuff on social media. So you think it's very likely she would?
I spent time last night looking at her Facebook posts going all the way back to around the time she would have gotten divorced. I saw nothing overt to reflect it, just a vague post about having strength during hardships and her relatives seemed to know what alluded to and wrote encouragements.
That being the case, perhaps and hopefully she doesn't turn to social media during crises? She did say she will never do that and promised me, and claims she only made that threat as an act of desperation because she felt abandoned.
But on the other hand, she definitely will feel abandoned when I actually do leave the relationship. I just feel I have no way to predict her behavior now, so I want to prepare myself.

[andrew77]

I'm hoping that it's unlikely she would post things about me on social media. She has just started a business with her daughter and uses social media to get customers. Posting complaints about her personal life would be bad for business and make her look bad.
Also, she cares very much about the opinions of her relatives, most of whom know nothing about the relationship. It would make her look bad to them too. She has even said during her worst melt-downs that if her family knew the details of this relationship she would look like an idiot to them for some reason.
HOWEVER, as we all know here, when a BPD person fixates on something, logic, reason and considerations for the future and even their own wellbeing sometimes go out the window.
The other night when I tried talking about how I felt in an attempt to segway into why we should break up, and she flipped out, she said that even though she had all of these things going on, including the new business taking off, that at this moment she doesn't even care about any of it or about anything else.
Her daughters, who do know about me, must also know what she can be like after knowing her their whole life. If she did get really withdrawn and stop caring about anything when I end it with her, would they be likely to blame me for "putting her through this", or more likely to just chalk it up to mom being mom, "you know what she's like" kind of thing.
I just don't need more potential enemies wishing me ill floating around. I don't really know them well and have no idea what kind of people they are.

[GaGrl]

It's rather drastic to consider getting an apartment in a different area in order to avoid her. You shouldn't have to disrupt your life to that extent.

How does she behave in public? Can you meet her in a public place and end the relationship where she would not make a scene? If you don't trust that she would remain calm in public, then you could consider ending the relationship by email or text.

Other considerations...

Does she have access to your apartment? If she has to be buzzed in, you can refuse to let her in. If she has public access to your apartment door, you can refuse to let her in. If she then makes a scene, you have reason to call the police and then file for a restraining order.

I worked a number of years in HR. If she has threatened to contact your employer, the best thing you can do is be proactive, go to your manager and your HR rep and explain you are in the midst of a breakup with someone who is threatening you. They can be very supportive. If she contacts your employers, in person or otherwise, you again have reason to file an RO.

She has really played on the Fear aspect of FOG (Fear-Obligation-Guilt) with you.

I believe you will feel better about yourself and your actions if you take the firm stance that the relationship is over, and hold her accountable for her own emotions and her own behavior.

You are not responsible for her actions. You don't need to feel her emotions for her.

[andrew77]

Thank you.
No, there are no buzzers. My apartment door opens right onto the street (this is the southwestern US). She has threatened me before that if I didn't go see her right then and there that she was on her way over here.
I work from home, so there's no HR department. I really don't want her coming over and screaming. This is not like big city life. Neighbors would want me gone after an incident like that around here.
I had wanted to and planned on moving to a better apartment anyway, so my hope is that when I do move, and of course don't tell her that I have, I can then just break up by text and then block her.
The more I think about this, the less I think it likely she would post about me online. People in High School with nothing to lose may do things like that, but adults, even adults who face these kinds of emotional challenges, would have to face looking really bad and suffer socially and professionally if they behaved like that, basically making fools of themselves to the world, embarrassing and humiliating themselves.
And then, worst case scenario, I could, of course, just deny the smears to anyone that cares enough. How bad could it be?

[B53]

I’ve never been on social media, so I’m not sure how it works. You are probably right, that she might want to avoid the mess she could make there.

You can’t be held hostage in a relationship because she is crazy. Maybe if you told her that if she doesn’t leave you alone you will get a RO, she may not be aware that it is difficult to do. If she has a new business, then she might not start anything to mess that up.

I have never been in your situation, so these are just thoughts.
Keep posting, you will probably get some good feedback here.

B53

[andrew77]

B53-
Social media is basically the same thing as this forum, except people post pictures as well as words. It's the same idea but with a much wider audience.
IF someone were to post a smear campaign, it could potentially be disastrous for the target because countless people would see it. Which may also be the deterrent, because, would she really want that many people in her business or seeing her in an unprofessional light no matter how crazy she felt?
My hope is no, but I've never dealt with this before. You guys have more experience.

[Cat Familiar]

First of all, here’s a link to all the acronyms https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=26601.0

Secondly, your anonymity is well protected here and we have over 100,000 members worldwide, so there’s little chance of ever being discovered, unless you leave this page up on your device and she snoops.

Thirdly, you are sending mixed messages by continuing to see her. If you want out, you’ve got to make that crystal clear and never again see her.

She’s obviously harboring hope that she can turn you around, through fear, pity, theatrics. The longer you wait to do it, the worse it’s going to be.

I had an ex boyfriend stalk me when I was a teenager. What put an end to it was my (BPD) mother yelling at him and threatening him with the police.

You can’t prevent her from doing whatever she will do, but the longer this goes on as it is, the more invested she will be.

[andrew77]

Thanks, Cat Familiar.
I get what you're saying, but I'm trying to work an exit plan including getting to somewhere safe first. I'm hoping to do that during this month. If I just told her today, I'm in a much more vulnerable situation, being that she knows where I live and can come right over.

Also, one of her claims has been "you haven't tried enough. You have to really try before you give up on this and bail, not just by being here, but try to change your feelings, too". So my hope is that if she sees that I did make an effort to have pleasant visits without conflicts, and then I tell her that having done this for a little while thatI still don't feel comfortable or happy, that she will be more inclined to accept rather than object with more "no, you didn't really try".

Anyway, I'm less concerned with what should be at this point, and more with just safely exiting in the least damaging way.

[B53]

I understand your thought process, but there is no rhyme or reason behind the actions of a BP! If you do A they will do B., it doesn’t happen. If at all possible, I would not let her near you. I have read on this site, where the BP has accused the nbp with physical abuse, that never happened. They are very unpredictable. I agree with CF, that any interaction with her is sending a mix message. As long as she has a foot in the door, she will never leave on her own.

B53

[andrew77]

But since I plan to move very soon anyway, can't I just put it off till then? I mean, if I just rip the bandaid off today, she knows where I live and I'll be scared till I move anyway. Can't I just put it off for a bit longer? It's already been 7 months of this, what's another 3 weeks?

[Cat Familiar]

I understand that you’d prefer she doesn’t know where you live. If she’s as dangerous as you believe her to be, don’t you feel unsafe seeing her now?

And what exactly is “a pleasant visit without conflict”? I mean what exactly transpires? Do you have meals together? Go out on dates? Have sex?

So you’ve been uncomfortable with her for 7 months?

If she’s really determined to go after you and enact some revenge fantasy, don’t you think she’d be inclined to research where you’ve moved? How can you completely cover your tracks?

In the meantime, do you have a security camera at your door? A cheap trail camera costs less than $50. You could build a case for getting a restraining order that way should you feel it necessary.

[B53]

We are not here to tell you what to do, even though it may sound that way. These are just suggestions, things we might try. We are concerned with your safety. You need to do whatever you feel comfortable with.
This isn’t something I have dealt with in my BP relationship, but I have been stalked and it was very disturbing. I’m sure that there are people here who have experienced this, hopefully they will read your post and offer their advice.
B53

[andrew77]

Thank you cat familiar and b35.

Well I'm probably scaring myself for nothing, thinking of worst case scenarios, but this whole thing has been such a surprise for me and I have never encountered it before, so I keep wanting to be prepared.

I've seen zero indications of violence ever. She has never broken things, or hit me or threatened to, so really there's no reason for me to think along those lines. Just as I said, this whole thing has been so strange and out of nowhere for me that I started to really scare myself with all of these scenarios.

[Gemsforeyes]

Hey Andrew-

I’m sorry you find yourself in this very uncomfortable position.  No one wants to be told how he / she “should” feel and to basically feel like a hostage in a relationship... especially one so new with no children.

Can you clarify, have you actually been trying to exit this relationship since the time it changed from friendship to romance (7 months ago)?

How long ago did her divorce take place?

When you DO see her, what levels of intimacy are you sharing, if any?   Holding hands, arm around her, kissing, sexual intimacy?

I do have my ideas on how to exit this relationship with the least conflict possible, and with some kindness.

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

[andrew77]

Thank you gemsforeyes.

Do you think we can discuss this in a private message? I know it's anonymous an all, but I'm already way out of my comfort zone with having shared this much in public.

[andrew77]

But as for the idea expressed above about researching where I've moved to, I've looked online for where I currently live and have been unable to find it, despite this being a small city and my having an unusual last name.

I don't believe she'd be able to find me if she tried. There are no more White Pages type things these days where you just look someone up and find their address. She's not wealthy (so no private investigators) and not savvy with technology at all, and she doesn't have people who would do that for her.

And that's all IF she even tried. I don't want to be naive and just take her at her word, but even when she was having meltdowns, she still said "if you walk away from me, you'll simply never know what happened to me. You'll never see me again." and about her ex "I never look up ex's on social media because that would just be hurting myself. I don't need to know".

As I said, trying to be optimistic, I think I keep needlessly scaring myself, but since I obviously didn't see this coming either, I don't want to be blind or naive.

Even the idea of her wanting to stalk me at all; she hasn't actually threatened or suggested that herself. I got scared she might do that just because I've never encountered anyone who would want to pressure someone into staying in a relationship with them. The entire thing has been so bizarre to me.

[livednlearned]

Part of leaving safely is knowing yourself well enough to know what feels comfortable.

I left my BPD relationship after a year of careful planning and was grateful for that legwork.

Like Gagrl suggested, I also went proactively to HR at the height of my anxiety and let my employers know that I was exiting a relationship and had some concerns about how well my ex was handling things. I definitely was not the first person to go through that from what I gathered. 

Another solution is to think about the people you are most concerned will see a smear campaign and reach out to them before she might.

My ex was a talented writer with an extensive social media network and he threatened to smear my name and write a book that would tell the world the truth about me.

None of his threats came to pass. He sent a couple of emails cc'ing my now husband (with the wrong email address), fired off some weird ass emails to my family, plus some other strange attempts.

Sometimes what troubled people are looking for is any kind of reaction that shows you've been hooked by what they said or did.

If she threatens a smear campaign, you can shrug and say, "It doesn't change my mind." Or, "A choice like that might hurt you professionally more than you think. For me, I know who I am and so do the people who love me."

I would guess, based on her past behaviors with you, that she'll default to medical issues.  That seems to be how she handles intense emotions. When she has had panic attacks before, how did you respond (or participate)?

[andrew77]

Thank you. How did you handle that entire year making the exit plan while "faking it" all the while? I'm so stressed every time I simply hear her voice now. I feel forced to text goodmorning otherwise she has a panic attack, and inevitably starts bothering me about when's the next time she'll see me, even if I was just over there. Then, if I say I was just over there, or when I'm getting ready to leave, say I've been here for 5 hours that was a good chunk of time for a visit, that backfires too because she says "well you keep a tally of hours and minutes. I don't.".
What does she expect when she pushed me to stay knowing I don't want to? Right now I'm just biding my time till I move because I really can't deal with her showing up or going crazy. I also found a service called deleteme.com that, for a fee, will keep you out of internet searches.
I have gotten rid of my Facebook and Instagram as well.
I think it's very unlikely she'd be able to find me even if she were so inclined. She needs help doing the simplest thing online, and can't describe people or cars. She told me about a call she received the other day and described the caller as "older", then she said 40-50, then said maybe 60, then said maybe 30. Someone like this, I doubt they could track someone down (I'm hoping anyway).
Ummm..when she had panic attacks, I just stayed there and helped her get up and walked her to the bathroom, then sat for a while till she seemed better before leaving.

[andrew77]

I think that in some ways I have it easier than many people here, because I really don't feel any guilt or obligation towards her anymore. I used to, which is how I even got into this relationship, but once I saw her threatening me and trying to hold me against my will in something she knows is hurting me, I simply stopped caring about what she feels and only want to exit safely.
My main concern is really her harassing other people about me. That could lead to some real isolation, because many people won't bother to give benefit of the doubt, and would rather just be done with anything that smells like a headache. I can't blame them.
But since I've deleted all that social media stuff anyway, I'm really hoping she wouldn't be able to contact anyone to bother them. So far, she's never done anything like that, which is hopeful. She's been at her wits end before, but still kept it to bothering me and making threats. Never actually taken action to contact anyone else.

[livednlearned]

How did you handle that entire year making the exit plan while "faking it" all the while? I'm so stressed every time I simply hear her voice now. I feel forced to text goodmorning otherwise she has a panic attack, and inevitably starts bothering me about when's the next time she'll see me, even if I was just over there.

Your exit plan will be specific to you.

It might begin with some research on what to do when someone with BPD experiences a panic attack or suicidal ideation.

For example, you know she suffers from panic attacks. You know that you are not skilled to help her handle them (given the other issues she has). So you research a plan for what you will do next time she says one is happening. "I really worry when you have these panic reactions and I'm not equipped or skilled enough here. I'm going to call 911 and make sure you get the best treatment you need, asap."

Part of the plan is to make sure she can cover the ambulance costs and what responsibilities you might have (or not) so that the solution doesn't become another problem.

You've done a really good job looking at ways to take care of yourself by deleting social media accounts and thinking thoughtfully about what you need (anonymity) after the split.

You've gotten advice about talking to HR proactively.

if I say I was just over there, or when I'm getting ready to leave, say I've been here for 5 hours that was a good chunk of time for a visit, that backfires too because she says "well you keep a tally of hours and minutes. I don't."

A common throughline of people with BPD is fear of abandonment, both perceived and real. People with BPD can feel abandonment when you don't respond to texts immediately, when you go into another room, when you glance at your phone while she's talking.

When they feel those feelings, they can become excessively needy and clingy.

For the next few weeks you could focus on a firm boundary like stating that you will be staying for an hour and then when you leave, phrase it in a way where she can focus on your return. "Like we discussed when I came over, I can be here for an hour and then I have to go do ______. I'll be back tomorrow at x o'clock."

It may be different with her, but with my ex I found it helpful to repeat the same phrase over and over, even though it felt weird to me. I focused more on what I was saying than how he responded so that I didn't get drawn into a debate.

Honestly, this stuff is not easy.

Another approach is to reach out to people proactively and let them know you have some serious concerns about the woman you're dating and worry she may more help than you are equipped to provide, and you are planning to end the relationship. No need to go into the details, just a heads up so that if/when something comes their way, they know that you left for reasons potentially connected to what she says/does.

Others might advise you to take the high road. I did that when I left and it worked out ok but I do regret not finding a middle path with well-chosen words to indicate the concerns I had about his behavior.

[andrew77]

Thanks so much for this advice.

There's actually no HR in my life. I'm self-employed and work from home. However, that makes my reputation even more important. I work with clients who chose me over all the competition, so a smear campaign is very much something I want to avoid.

You're right about the abandonment perception. She has said as much "I have abandonment issues and became clingy".

Clingy is not the word. I've had to cancel coming for dinner and then she sent me a string of volatile messages including a picture of the food saying "It's in the garbage!".

I have considered hiring a specialist to mediate the phone call when I do inform her of the split. if she just goes crazy, it won't even happen because she just gets into this hysterical monologue that can last for hours and won't hear anything I say.

It still shocks me to think back to last Spring, when we were just friends, and to think that this is the same person. She completely transformed overnight the second our status changed. if I saw any of this back then, I of course wouldn't have even stayed friends. We had been friends for an entire year and she seemed like one of the most stable people I knew.

I honestly care nothing for her feelings at this point. She obviously cares nothing for mine, other than that she wants me to have feelings for HER. She knows I'm suffering because of her keeping me in this with emotional blackmail and threats, and doesn't care. All she says is feelings can change, tells me to think positive thoughts about her and to "change your feelings and change your attitude".

If I was safely out of her world and she couldn't affect me, as bad as this sounds, I honestly wouldn't even care if she had a breakdown or panic attacks or whatever else. It's not my fault she's ill. It's not my fault she hid this side of her from me. I went in with good intentions, not malicious intent to hurt her, and I should have the right to choose to leave. Everyone does.

[CoherentMoose]

Why are you using voice communications to "separate"?  Personal and verbal communications are on her "playing field".  Stay off of her field if you can. 

Is a phone call your best option? 

CoMo

[livednlearned]

Clingy is not the word.

Frantic attempts to thwart the abandonment is another way to put it ... Throwing food in the garbage unfortunately falls into the normal range of clingy for someone struggling with BPD.

I have considered hiring a specialist to mediate the phone call when I do inform her of the split

I understand.

Some of us live in states with one-party consent for recording, and have done so to protect ourselves if things were to escalate to (often false) legal allegations. You can search online to see if you live in a state where you can record altho given what you've described it doesn't sound like she is someone with a history of making false allegations.

Given her own emotional volatility and instability, empathy will be hard for her to have because for that to occur, she has to be grounded in her own feelings (to understand yours).

Leaving a relationship is not a cruel thing to do, though it can obviously feel that way and yes, you have the right to leave.

It's a sign that you're someone with integrity that you want to let her know you're leaving versus just disappearing. It's ok to want to protect yourself while doing that. Some people get a restraining order altho there are people who think ROs can escalate conflict and make it worse.

Another possibility is to write her a brief letter. I did the same, working with a therapist. Some people write one and share it here to get feedback about phrasing (to close any loopholes that we sometimes create out of fear, obligation, or guilt.)

If it's any comfort, my ex was an attorney and engaged in threats to destroy me, write a book, ruin my reputation, etc. For such a smart man with extensive professional abilities, he dysregulated to a degree that was ultimately sad.

We can never know with certainty what someone is capable of but as you mention, this woman does not seem to be very effective even when she is relatively regulated. A genuine abandonment will likely make her executive functioning worse. 
 

[andrew77]

Como: because until I move next month, I don't want to provoke her to show up. When I tried to really start distancing myself she flipped out so I'm sort of biding my time till i can get to a new safe place, block her number etc.

[andrew77]

livednlearned:
Thank you, but you give me too much credit. If I could just disappear safely, I wouldn't hesitate to do so. I just think that if she doesn't feel like she got her final say, it might provoke her to feel a need to search for me, but if there is a final call, it's less likely.

That's my hope anyway.

I've also found a company that helps with things like this and they told me they could be with me on the call to try to keep it under control.

[andrew77]

Also, regarding legality of recording, I actually got her to agree beforehand to make a recording and asked her right then "so we both agree that neither of us has ever knowingly or intentionally hurt the other, right?" and she said yes and agreed to a couple of other things as well and I sent her the recording.
I framed it as a sort of contract that we could listen to when we felt bad about the other person, but it's good to have that recorded.