Ignoring a person w/BDP - unforgivable?

[traumabond]

Hello.
This site is very interesting and helpful!

We all know about the underlying abandonment trauma. I've also seen various comments from persons w/BPD that ignoring them is unforgivable - a mortal sin.
I'm curious if anyone has any experience with this?

My story, the main:
- I only suspected she had BDP and didn't know until after for sure (when the brain fog cleared up it was so clear). She was a ”quiet” BDP and it wasn’t until after this that I read a lot about BDP and realized I also had an exgf who was a ”quiet” BDP (I also had a wild BDP gf, my most recent exgf)
- Me and the lady were classmates and friends in my eyes, but for her she probably scouted me as a flirt. We had a very intense and deep connection, I guess most here will understand. It was not sexual because she had a bf and ”hates cheating”, but it was intensely intimate.
I was never bothered about her having a bf because she treated him like dirt and I would never want to be in his shoes. I was happy to have her as a friend and felt the intimacy is special. She kept telling me that no matter what we'll be friends forever. Sadly it was just manipulation (she had probably noticed that I needed a friend very much now during covid-19 since my closest friends live in other cities and were not able to visit last year), and it’s clear pw/BDP do not understand bonding or relationships so cannot use words to describe them correctly. As time progressed, she started pushing her ideals (she e.g. wanted me to have sex with her and a stranger).
- We were also in a trauma band that I didn't even realize until two months later, when the brain fog cleared after I read my diary... So many details I didn't even remember! She really broke my mental down and took away my willpower. I'm not even sure how much time I would have remained in that state without my diary...! In the brain fog I was locked out from my past essentially; in a stressful anxious present time without bright future.

- We ended like so many other relationships after becoming "too close". After our "best day together" (one of few days without any drama) she started to become unstable, cold, distant. About 10 days later she split, and the way she expressed her profound hate for me suddenly after being so close for two months really shocked me and put me in an instant shock/depressed/anxiety state. I knew our relation would never be the same.
- As a result of this, that very night, I had a bike accident and got a serious concussion and a near-death experience. I had decided not to contact her and give her space after her splitting but I really needed to talk to her about this accident since it was traumatic on its own, and I figured maybe it could give us something to clear the air about without talking about the splitting.
I texted her that I had almost died in an accident and included a photo of my bruised skull so that she would know I'm not making it up. Clearly she still hated me - her only comment to this was "ouch" and "seems unpleasant". I am sometimes still in shock when I think about how cold that is.

- I really felt I couldn't function anymore after that and we had school assignments to do (we were classmates, that's how we met). I had to talk to her to "clear the air" but she wouldn't let me because she's pressured by the school work (she couldn’t even give me 1 minute when I've done anything for her for the duration of our relationship).
So without phone call or meeting, I texted her about how I felt after she had destroyed me that splitting day (even if it was just as much about how she delivered those words). She replied that I was making drama.
I know from other relations with girls with BDP that this is a common tactic. Since they can never claim responsibility over their less than perfect actions, they will think that me pointing out my damage is an attack on her; rather than an opportunity to give sympathy - and they can never have empathy or apologize.
She continued by telling me that it's all my fault: that it was my responsibility if I felt bad from her words, nomatter what she had been saying. (extreme double standards since I had to apologize for such things as wanting to talk to a female classmate earlier that year).
- I didn't want to pressure her during that week because we had school assignments that needed completion and I know it is important to her. So I waited... but along the wait other people who don't really know me that well showed true empathy and sympathy about my accident, even one classmate I only met a couple of times outside of school told me "you can call me if you need someone to talk to".
In that moment I felt that her actions are too cruel, and cold… I couldn’t simply tell her that because I'm at the bottom of my life right now and if she blames me again for feeling bad, then I felt I don't know what will happen, because I've never been lower than that... I worried that I’ll be broken completely…
So I froze. I didn't want to ignore her, I wanted to resolve everything, but I was really afraid of what will happen if she attack me again in this state... I had been having panic anxiety for one week by then (one week since splitting and accident).

- There were other details but the point is I ignored a couple of text messages from her and two phone calls during 3-4 days. If she had texted me with some question about why I didn’t answer, I would have answered instantly. I was ready to talk, but only if she was.
Even though I thought she had BDP I didn't know about ignoring her being a "mortal sin" until after our ending when I started to read everything I could about BDP. Since she had ignored my own call and some text messages during the past week I also figured it wasn't that big of a deal - she had established those rules - but of course I should not have forgotten about that she doesn’t understand rules - only double standards.
- Anyway she decided that I had ghosted her and told her bf about our previous flirt. He threatened me with physical violence if I ever talk to her again (she seemed to enjoy this drama). After much fuzz I could finally talk to her in a 3 hour phone call where I felt we understood eachother, and we agreed to not stop friendship and keep studying together (but not continuing with sleeping together, hugging, etc).
Then what happened next is, she's like a changed person. When she came by my place to drop off some things that I had asked her to (like my home key, that I didn't want her to have since her bf threatened me) she seemed to panic. Had not seen this side in her before.
I'm not sure what she was feeling because she didn't say. But she was in a kind of fear, panic, etc. Maybe she was just struggling to hold back her hate, or I triggered that trauma in her?
She was clearly uneasy to just see me when we are alone (we did meet in group a couple of times when she could easily behave okay).

A few days later, when we met with common friends for last time (around two months ago), she returned to this anxious/panic state when the other people had departured. We both needed to walk in the same direction and she refused to walk together even for a few minutes.
So I just tried to clear up some details in a hurry before she stormed off. I asked her if she hated me she said "no, I hate myself, the person I was with you". I'm not sure if that means that she simply hates herself, hates having BDP (she's a quiet BDP), or if she hates herself for cheating and cannot lie to herself anymore or if she hates me and just somehow frames it around herself.
Could be a combination, but for sure she does hate me since she’s split and didn’t do any idealization.
- Furthermore she replaced me with a new "best buddy" around the very same time, and they did seem to have a flirt going. I was not jealous about any flirt but I was jealous about losing her as a friend to another person (it’s also covid-19 now and again this meant I was mostly alone after spending almost every day and many nights with her).
The last thing she told me that meeting two months ago was that she had talked to all of her friends about me and they had all told her to not meet with me anymore because I had ghosted her - which was unacceptable.
Obviously she cannot have told her friends the whole story…
I think her friends telling her this is the reason for why she ended everything, since she accepted that it was a misunderstanding between us when we had that 3 hour phone call. I've also read other stories where pw/BDP are more influenced by third party opinions or accounts than even real experience in their livs.

Now it's been two months, no contact (I made a few attempts, for example asking if she could just give closure, but will not contact her again since it’s clear she will not reply anyway (and she may already have blocked me). She also had told me before things would be the same between common friends from class - but it hasn't. Now they all ignore me so I'm thinking she's done something, maybe told them something not entirely true. So I feel we are not only not friends, we are just exes… She blames me for her cheating on her bf, so that could also fuel her hate.

On an ending note - I’ve read various comments online from pw/BDP that they will not forgive being ignored. Is it true? Again; I only ignored her for preserving my life, really. At that time, it was really unclear what would happen if she kept kicking me when I'm down and even before the splitting I was close to the brink from the emotional abuse of the trauma band and her closing off the intimacy supply that kept me going.

Of this I am aware:
- I'm truly better off without her since she might manipulate me if we would be in touch again. She had a great positive influence on me during our first two months but we actually ended at the right time. She was really in control of me and I would have done things I didn't want with her and I would have been more abused and I would have spent more time living for her than for me, or having a slow demise rather than quick, and still end up being left as if I didn't matter when she was tired of me in the future.
- We are still classmates however, and at some point will resume regular classes. We will meet again, sooner or later even though now neither of us want it (I want to heal and feel good about myself before I encounter her).
- She's not really good about processing emotions. I understand about object incosistency and that she doesn't relate to any happy memory with me, but when she changed her feelings from ”stay as friends” to ”leave” she was influenced by third party. She may be influenced again. Even my ”quiet” BDP exgf contacted me with only praise some years ago, after telling me no more contact and replying with anger when I asked if she wanted to meet as friends when I passed by her town.
That was also because of a third party. But maybe it’s just most worse when ignore is included?
- I don't want a girlfriend-boyfriend relationship with her, I want a friendship - which I know I can't have, because she's not a friend, she never was. She doesn't understand friendships and bonding. It's better to be friends and build lasting bonds with someone who does.
But we had a specialtemporary exchange of intimacy, ideas, deep conversations, company, studying, cooking, sleeping, etc. If we would resume anything it might still end up that neither of us likes it.
- I want to stress that she's the only person who has completely abandoned me in my life. She stressed that "it's only temporary", but from reading similar stories, this is very common for pw/BDP to say, to not give closure even though they have already moved on with no intention of actually being in touch.
My point is that even my two exgf with BDP never left me. They insist they didn’t want to breakup.
The difference with this friend is that we were only friends, and she had a bf, we couldn’t bond via e.g. sex, we just had extreme intimacy (and she probably has no positive memory of it now).
But even we are just friends, she insisted we should get married after 3 years, and that she wanted only my baby (she's already told her bf she doesn't want babies with him). I know people with BDP cannot be trusted in words and only in action but she even asked me that if I've settled down and raising a family of my own in three years, can I still have babies with her?
I mean clearly, our relation was "borderless" (just lacking sex). I am not interested in going back to a hellish trauma band that resulted in the two worst months of my life, and with it just being worse.
But I'm mainly curious if she'll ever come back as a friend?
I'm thankful to her, for what she did to me, which may be the trauma bond speaking, but she also actually taught me to truly love myself
(and I’m going to investigate what she actually told our common friends since they’re ignoring me now, maybe her hateful side has spred vicious rumours).
- Since I'm a kind of magnet to ladies with BDP (am even approached by strangers in public sometimes!) I also am not depending on this specific BDP girl for a ”BDP experience”, if that is something to miss…

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[formflier]

You have obviously been thinking deeply about this relationship.  Like many of us, you are coming here scratching your head...asking the question..."really?"  

We get it...we've heard the mind twisting explanations/excuses/justifications...so you are safe to keep sharing those here.

You have asked some very specific questions and I think you can understand the answers better over time.

One thing I believe/hope you come to understand is that it's not the answer that matters (such as "do they forgive you for abandonment"), but what matters is you understand how abandonment or perceived abandonment is normally experienced by a pwBPD.

I simply can't do those questions justice is a paragraph or two.

I've got a suggestion.

Can you read this?

What it takes to be in relationship

Then share your thoughts, perhaps the article will influence the way you look back at your experience.

And over time...we'll work on answering those questions you asked.

How does that sound?

Best,

FF

[traumabond]

Thanks for the opening welcome 

First of all, I noticed I made some typos (including in topic title "BDP"), but I don't see any option to edit the post... I guess there is no edit option?

One thing I believe/hope you come to understand is that it's not the answer that matters (such as "do they forgive you for abandonment"), but what matters is you understand how abandonment or perceived abandonment is normally experienced by a pwBPD.

Actually I agree this is really important, and for me that understanding was the core of how I moved on from feeling abused by her, and able to move on from the traumatic past and forgive everything. Her abandonment of me in this extreme fashion was the worst thing I had ever experienced, but for her - she was essentially born and raised with the awareness that this horrible feeling exists; and somehow - at least if I accept that she can never relate to relationships without double standards - I then understands why she was so afraid of being abandoned and why she caused all of the drama and why a special friendship ended suddenly.
I wrote a message to her about this around NYE, hoping that she would be able to see that I only ignored her because I had no previous experience of abandonment, it was never out of selfishness (I did in fact believe I only exist for her at that point, but I didn't want to die). I don't know if she read it and ignored or already blocked me.
My awful feeling was also a lot related to the shock and following ptsd from the splitting and trauma band, but she was indeed the first person to abandon me, and she did that after manipulating me into thinking that I want her forever in my life, and that I need to live my life for her (all of this turned into a wakeup call that I need to live for myself, which I'm also grateful for). I don't know what it's like for a baby to be abandoned by her parents, but at least it must be incredibly painful.
So now I think I understand it as best as I can, and I understand that it is at the core of things in their emotional world. Also when she's suffering from object inconsistency I can understand that all of our many words about how we'll stay forever together doesn't matter when I actually do vanish (and she seems to have had quite serious object inconsistency, sometimes I got the feeling she's not even able to properly relate to me emotionally when I'm not there).
But all of these are things I learned after the breakup, so thus the ignoring of her was done to her thinking she was able to reason about things, still remember our promises to stay friends forever, and that she would reach out to me once she would be interested in resolving the issues between us (part of problem is that she wasn't, she only wanted to use me for her own life goals... and for her it was better that I remain submissive than free and happy).

I simply can't do those questions justice is a paragraph or two.

I've got a suggestion.

Can you read this?

What it takes to be in relationship

Then share your thoughts, perhaps the article will influence the way you look back at your experience.

Thanks for your reply 

I read the article you suggested and it's a good read!
I think I did read it before (last week), but it was well worth reading again.

What I want
As to what it suggests, I overall agree with that this is what would be ideal for the pw/BPD who wants to improve their condition, and this is how I would enter a boyfriend-girlfriend relationship with a pw/BPD. Somehow that's way deeper than what I had in mind for me and this lady friend though. I'm just hoping to be casual friends with her (at least from where we would restart if we ever even talk again).
I don't mind it being a destination though - but our original agreement to "keep friendship" (made in the phone call, before that was reversed the next day) was to meet once a week for a few hours and not get involved in anything intense like before.
I really liked this decision, and in my diary I wrote this so many times; that I felt that she's taking all of my time and I don't have any life anymore.. Part of me also suspects that she felt unsatisfied that I liked this conclusion so much, so she decided to punish me by removing the friendship altogether (of course she was also hating me, but she was always upset with me not wanting to be unhappily in love with her like she's the lady of my life).

I wouldn't mind being her emotional rock, if she would want it and we would work things out, but it seems far away now.
And unfortunately in past, she clearly showed me that she doesn't only want me as an emotional solid but also a physical solid (I really felt like an object being used by her in the end, and that she only returns to me what is enough to keep the object alive and submissive).
The main reason for her being upset with me and causing drama all the time was always based on me not able to be 'like a boyfriend' to her. So she manipulated me and abused me psychologically in order for me to submit. She did it really well because I didn't even notice how well it affected me until way after it ended...
She almost convinced me to be a "secret boyfriend" to her (without sex), who is not allowed to interact with other girls and just be there for her (who still had her LDR bf). She always acted with implications. She always stated "I can not forbid you from..." but it was always the same - if I go against her wish and e.g. talk to another female friend, she will be disappointed, distant and cold, and possibly even abuse me.

What I wanted at the core and what is the only thing I hope for us now is for us to be friends - friends who support each other and help each other grow. For her it was impossible to do that, at least while we were that intense. I think certainly clear borders (as the article suggests) is necessary if we want to resume contact.
But now even resumed contact seems far away...

Going into this relation I was happy to have made this friend... then once we started flirting I had the correct expectations as I knew it would neither last or have a happy ending, but somehow I had been fooled into thinking that we had a special friendship that would last forever (regardless of the flirt) because this is what she often said and always emphasized. If she hadn't become too cruel there during the time of my accident (which went beyond psychological abuse), I would have stayed in the trauma band probably unable to leave and just getting sucked into it. There are so many other coincidences or external factors in this, Covid-19 was also a big part.

Also I believe (but am not sure) that her bf is the "rock" in her life, because they stick together even though she clearly abuses him, and she has abused him since they got together. It could be that he's just in a trauma band with her, but since she remains with him and he with her, I think they have something that she feels supported from; also for example the fact that after she told him about our flirt they decided to enforce rules in her life such as he's always calling her before bedtime and when she awakes - this limits her ability to sleep with other friends and lying about it.

Possible other perspectives
I think one of the essences here is that I was not a friend to her but a flirt (but for me it was opposite). She may not feel that she needs an "only friendship"-relation with me, esp since she got closer to the other male friend and is meeting with the other common friends more (before she mostly just met with me).

She did show signs of sadism (she stated she will hurt people who love her and at least once she said "I want to see what people are like when they're at their bottom" - and obviously she had nothing stopping her from putting them there...) so if she thinks she can hurt me from not being friends with me, that might be also be a source of small pleasure for her. I think for sure she was feeling good about making the our common friends ignore me during Covid-19 making me all alone until I finally befriended another classmate (not easy because we don't meet because of Covid-19 and many classmates live in other cities, I was lucky , and I appreciated the stability of this relationship and the fact that it will not suddenly end made me feel glad... it also made me feel sorry for how pw/BPD will feel, the paranoia and insecurity that every relation will indeed have an abrubt ending...).

I still think (but I'm interested if anyone has any other ideas) that it was the ignoring of her for 3-4 days that created this abrupt and sharp ending. I was still recovering from my concussion at home and feeling like hell about everything when I ignored her- so it was never like I was ignoring her while having fun with other people. But I understand that she did not experience it as such, and she was also really upset that I had sent one text message a friend who empathically reacted to my accident during one of the days that I ignored her.
After reading various comments from pw/BPD about how it is impossible to forgive, and her own words, it just seems to be most likely.

Also, maybe she was on the fence about things when we talked things through in the three hour phone call (because originally she told me that she didn't want to talk, she needed to think about things for some months), and shortly thereafter talking to her friends while still feeling insecure and hurt by me and hating me, and listening to that they all felt that she should stop being friends is very likely to have made the decision easy for her.

On a last note. She was never open about having BPD, even with me (but it is evident in the way things started, progressed and ended - and various comments from her like "this only happened because we spent too much time together" - which a normal person would not say). She is adopted and did tell me about bonding issues with her step mother, and that her parents took her to see someone to figure out her emotions (I think she left out certain details, like what the conclusion was. This was a usual tactic for her and probably a tactic she used to make the common friends start ignoring me. Because it's not really lying in her mind. She did the same with her bf; excluding details. That's how she was able to sleep with me without feeling that she was lying to him about what she's up to).

I think she has intense meta-feelings about her BDP part and maybe feels shame about it etc. I may have stirred things up within her and she may feel paranoid or threatened that other will find out about her mental condition (she did tell me many quite crazy things). I will not tell anyone, and I've tried to make clear to her that I don't blame her for anything and nothing's her fault... but it's possible that this was too late and that she had already made her plan to destroy my social life with classmates because I didn't contact her for over a month when she asked for "space" and she had already disappeared and turned the people against me by then - I had no interaction with those people at all during that period so it cannot be anything I did that turned them against me. It has to relate to her or possibly her new male friend who is not that nice of a person (possibly narc, he's made some really distasteful comments sometimes and seems unable to think of other people except how they are useful to him)...).

[formflier]

Hey...good on you for the quick response and I'll handle the fastball question first.

Edits.

If you hit post and then immediately (short period of time), see something you would like to change, there is an edit function available.

If you come back later, the only option I am aware of is to approach moderators for a change.  (which I don't think you should do in this case)

Plenty of time for you to play around with posting and editing...

I think she has intense meta-feelings about her BDP part and maybe feels shame about it etc. I may have stirred things up within her and she may feel paranoid or threatened that other will find out about her mental condition (she did tell me many quite crazy things). 

Briefly...yes, most people with BPD (pwBPD) have period of very VERY intense feelings.  While they may "blame" those feelings on others, it's unlikely to be helpful for the other person to "own" responsibility for the pwBPD's feelings.

I'm not suggesting you had no influence whatsoever...

I am suggesting the influence is most likely FAR less that you imagine.

Thoughts?

Best,

FF

[traumabond]

Thanks for the info  

Briefly...yes, most people with BPD (pwBPD) have period of very VERY intense feelings.  While they may "blame" those feelings on others, it's unlikely to be helpful for the other person to "own" responsibility for the pwBPD's feelings.

I'm not suggesting you had no influence whatsoever...

I am suggesting the influence is most likely FAR less that you imagine.

Yes, this is my conclusion also. As I kept going through everything until I had a clear image, I realized there were no "reasons" to look for, because most of those "reasons" were reasons only because she had made them to be, following our peak (same pattern as almost every relationship story I read on this board).
This specific topic, I created it because I read several of these comments from pw/BPD, but I agree since everything was destined to follow a certain path, and I was not able to play the role that she needed (a second boyfriend), it was sort of bound to end like this anyway, and I believe for me the option to continue as someone I'm not would have been worse for me. I had already lost control of my own life at the time of the accident; surrendering to her manipulation.
In my mind, I was saved by my subconcious.
Somehow I just wish I could make her love herself the way she made me love myself... but I guess there cannot be love in a world of only needs, so going back to the article you first posted, the solution is clearly stored in a goal far ahead in time for this specific lady.
I hope if she never wants anything to do with me, someone else will be there to help her.

[formflier]

  the solution is clearly stored in a goal far ahead in time for this specific lady.
 

Can you expand on this a bit?

Best,

FF

[traumabond]

Can you expand on this a bit?

It's just the fact that she's got a long journey ahead of her before she can be who she needs and wants to be (confident and happy about herself).
At the moment she is too confused to even know who she is. She is in desperate need of discovering it, yet her "life goals" are all external; for example making a certain amount of money, sexual achievements, etc. She even made me into an external goal (stating that I would be perfect for her in 3 years when she wants to start a family and have babies, etc).
I guess the external world is the only world she can divide into bits and turn into goals and strategies.
But the internal world is where she actually needs to progress the most in order to be happy.

For sure among the people she's met since she moved to this city, I'm the one best able to support her on her journey (she doesn't really open up to people and I'm the type of person that enjoy deep talks with people so I encourage it). She has some friends from past, but she almost never talked to them (only one time) during our two months of intense friendship (same with her family)... Furthermore she almost never uses social media, so I think the only person who knows her more well than I do is her bf.
I don't know the nature of their relation, but I know they fight a lot. Hopefully he can support her - the person she needs to be - rather than the person who she claims to want to be (because as stated she doesn't know what is best for herself).

This being said, I understand that there's a time and place for everything. Maybe she just wants to focus on external things and having fun right now. She was quite explicit about that my main usage for her is in the future (but that is because she doesn't understand her inner needs).
In that future scenario I don't fit into her life now since she really doesn't want cheating right now and before the chaos she had a really hard time not to be the one creating the situations for things to happen. I'm sure she'll be flirting with other guys though, again she doesn't really know herself and just submits into her chaos.
And as long as she keeps repeating the same mistakes, she won't progress. Alas, she's not getting closer to the bright future that she needs.

[Swimmy55]

Hi Traumabound,
You seem like a very compassionate friend that needs to have the same ( if not at least some) compassion for yourself as well.   You intuit very well on what she needs / wants, but can you shift focus a bit and think on what you need and want in a friendship from this point on?