Not sure if she has it, there are signs both for and against

[i80]

I've been married for 25 years. We've had lots of ups and downs. I've suspected my wife had BPD in the past, but after reading a couple books on it, ultimately decided she doesn't. It's probably been 10 years since I decided that, and now today I'm suddenly remembering that I had suspected it before because of fights we had over the weekend.

I started typing a lot of very descriptive stuff, but decided against it. To keep things short, I'll just say we went from fighting over the way a closet is organized on Saturday to her telling me she wants a divorce on Sunday. Between the fights, I thought things might actually go back to normal. Now I'm not sure. She hasn't threatened divorce for about 10 years. Now I'm wondering again if it might be BPD, or if I'm really as bad of a husband as she says I am.

Criteria she does NOT display:
 - Desperate efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment. (threatening divorce seems like the opposite of that, and I've never threatened to leave, so I don't know how she would react) She also really likes her alone time.
 - Impulsivity in at least two areas that are potentially self-damaging (such as spending, sex, substance abuse, reckless driving or binge-eating). (she's actually kind of a tightwad, and doesn't like losing control, so substance abuse is not a problem - she doesn't even like how sex makes her feel like she's losing control)
- Repeated suicidal behavior and threats or self-harm.

Criteria she DOES display:
- A pattern of unstable relationships switching between extremes of admiration and hatred. (she tends to either like people or think they are evil.)
- Erratic mood swings.
- Intense anger or difficulty controlling anger. (maybe same as above?)

Not sure:
- Unstable self-image.
- Chronic feelings of emptiness.
- Temporary, stress-related paranoid ideation or dissociative symptoms.

She does tend to twist things I say. She can turn practically anything I say into some kind of insult toward her, even when the opposite is intended. She has no close friends, but is close with family. After 25 years of marriage, I no longer have any real close friends either, because she doesn't like to socialize outside of family. I have to join clubs and participate in online forums in order to have any kind of friendships at all.

So I don't know where to go from here. I do know that if I can figure out how to make her feel like I am committed to changing for the longterm into the person she's wanted me to be for the last 25 years, that she's likely to go back to normal over the next few days. But then if I can't keep it up - like I haven't been able to in the past - she'll eventually come back and say I'm just an evil liar and she wants a divorce all over again.

I do know I want our marriage to stay intact, and I'm willing to do whatever it takes. We do have kids, though they're mostly grown up now. In the past, it's the kids that have made my wife determine we needed to stay together for. That may not be as much of a factor anymore. But when things are normal we mostly enjoy being together (as long as she's not yelling at me) and we both love each other. She had been trying really hard to do things to make me happy until this most recent episode. Now I think she feels like she was wasting her time because apparently I don't do the same (though I feel like I try).

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[i80]

I thought I had added to my post, but my addition seems to be gone?

[i80]

I'm kind of depressed and anxious right now, and don't really feel like working. It will be time to go home in an hour, anyway. I bought her favorite candy on my way to work today, and plan to put it on her pillow with a note thanking her for the things she does for our family. Maybe that will help soften her heart.

I do think it's interesting that I rarely get mad at her, but she gets mad at me for things all the time. I only mention the things I should get mad at her for to fight back when she is berating me for something. I guess that's probably not the best way to handle things, and it's what backfired on me bigtime last night.

[i80]

I did realize there is something else that fits - boredom. She craves change and adventure and she can't sit still for long periods of time - not even long enough for a movie oftentimes. And when she is sitting still, she's working on writing lists or creating a new calendar.

This thread probably looks like I've received several answers now, but I'm just answering myself.  Oh well.

[Cat Familiar]

It doesn’t really matter whether or not she has enough traits to qualify for a formal diagnosis of BPD, she definitely has traits. And those traits are making your relationship difficult.

Here’s an article that might be helpful: https://www.bpdfamily.com/content/what-borderline-personality-disorder

That you’re feeling depressed and anxious is to be expected. Most of our members have experienced those feelings since these relationships are so emotionally exhausting.

One thing to keep in mind is that her moods can fluctuate dramatically. That she mentioned divorce yesterday may have been indicative of her extreme emotional response to something inconsequential. And perhaps she’s moved on from that feeling today. (Certainly don’t remind her of what she felt yesterday.  )

These overly intense feelings are very difficult for those of us “nons” to understand. I would imagine if you threatened divorce you would really mean it, not that it would be an expression of a fleeting emotion.

Keep reading here and post more of your story. You’ll be surprised to learn what common threads run through many members’ lives with their BPD loved ones.

[i80]

Yeah, when I got home last night she was cheerful and it was like the weekend hadn't even happened. Except that when it was time to go to bed, she chose for the 3rd night in a row not to sleep next to me in our bed. And this morning she was chatting cheerfully, but then when she left for work I said, "Have a good day! I love you!" and she just waved and left. (She usually gives a response similar to what I said.)

It does usually take her a few days to go back to normal with our relationship after we've had a big fight.

In the meantime, I'm doing my best to keep doing things that show her that I'm trying to be a better husband.

It's been long enough since the last time something like this happened that I had forgotten I had suspected she had some issues. After we had been married for a short time, I remember thinking that it was like she was two different people, and considering talking to her parents about it, but I never did. About 6 months after we got married was the first time she asked me to consider getting a divorce, because she wasn't happy. This was right as I was leaving on a business trip. I spent the entire trip being really worried, and when I got home she was back to normal, but had found out she was pregnant. I figured it was just hormones.

Since then, she's threatened divorce a few times when I've done something I shouldn't have, where it really has been my fault. This time, all I did was fail to properly empathize with her unhappiness. She's been really stressed recently due to a number of things that we have no control over, and over the weekend it finally all blew up. She is good at remembering all the things I've done or haven't done over our entire marriage, and she was upset that I haven't done things to improve the house over the last 15+ things we've lived in it, and that I'm OK with things as they are. I told her I would do better and work on the things she wanted, but to quit yelling at me. She said I had been lying for 17 years and I wasn't ever going to do anything different, and that I wouldn't have to worry about her yelling at me anymore because she was going to get a divorce. We both then started cleaning different areas of the house until she decided to go to bed (but not in our bed with me).

There was one time that she threatened to get a divorce and she said she knew I didn't believe her, but she was serious that time. As far as I can remember, I've always taken her very seriously, and it scares me every time. I really want to stay married. I love her and we do have a pretty good relationship when things are going well. We have 4 kids and I'd really like to keep the family intact. So each time this happens I work extra hard to make her happy, but then eventually end up getting complacent and not putting in as much effort as she would like. But I get kind of tired of working fulltime and then coming home to work on projects, and only getting Sunday off. She says she'd like to get the house to the point where we can do what's needed during the week and then go have fun on Saturday, but I'm not sure we're ever going to get there.

[i80]

[wrote some more but thought better of it]

[i80]

I don't feel entirely at ease writing on a public forum about this, so I deleted the text of my previous update, but since then, something happened that I thought I'd add. My wife just called to ask me to do something for a family member, and at the end she said the customary "I love you." It was probably just force of habit (she's made similar mistakes before during her periods of not liking me), but it's a good sign that things are going back to normal.

[i80]

Just to follow up, I went home last night and things seemed a little better. She even decided to sleep next to me in our bed, but with a separate blanket. But before I laid down she told me she could see I was trying to do things, but she was really wary of it. I asked her why. She said it seemed like I had an ulterior motive. I said, "I just want to make you happy." She said she had heard that before. I left the room to check the house before going to bed, and when I got back she was either asleep or just didn't have anything else to say. And I didn't want to try starting a conversation because I didn't know where it would go.

This morning, when I left for work I kissed her on the forehead and told her I love her and I hope she has a good day. She basically echoed it. I'm sure it sounded completely normal to our kids.

I think that she is feeling trapped because I like things the way they are, and she constantly wants to change things up. She is a stay at home mom with a very part time job that she hates, and she feels like she wants to go get a real job. But she knows we agreed that wasn't good for our kids. One of our kids is a single adult with their own place, and she's jealous of them and the freedom they have. It kind of sounds like a midlife crisis - we're in our 40s. But worse.

[i80]

I don't know whether to keep coming back here or not. I could use some feedback but I'm mostly talking to myself.

I thought things were close to being back to normal, but it turns out it's because we hadn't spent much time together. When our kids are around, she acts normal. When they're not, I have to be very careful in my conversations with her. And she's not interested in any kind of affection. At least we're both sleeping in the same bed, using the same blanket now. That makes me feel a little less lonely.

It had been long enough since her last episode that I had forgotten she might have bpd. I think it might be because we've had our adult children around, and she acts normal when they're in the house. We've now just had our teenagers with us for a few weeks and she's really been flipping out. A married daughter will be moving in with her husband for a while, and I'm hoping that will really help. If we can last until they get here. Her threat to divorce me when I didn't do anything wrong still stings. And she hasn't broached the subject since then (and I certainly am not going to) but she does keep telling me how miserable she is and that she doesn't know how to fix it. I'm not sure what to say about that, so I say nothing. I am working on fixing the things that she's unhappy about that are actually fixable by me.

[kells76]

Hey i80, you're not alone -- the group is definitely here and reading what you share.

From your last few posts, it sounds like things are very "day by day" with your W and her moods. One day or moment is OK, but there's no predicting how the next day or moment might go. Sometimes she seems "normal", sometimes she does stuff that you are pretty sure is "pulling away" or not being "there".

That must take a toll on your emotions and energy -- the constant unpredictability.

You had a spot-on insight here:

I thought things were close to being back to normal, but it turns out it's because we hadn't spent much time together

BPD and BPD-type behaviors generally increase in intensity the closer the relationship. This can mean both closer in emotional intimacy (spouses typically closest, then family, then friends, then coworkers, then... etc) and occasionally closer in physical/temporal space.

I'm not sure what to say about that, so I say nothing. I am working on fixing the things that she's unhappy about that are actually fixable by me.

I hear you trying to "not make things worse". So many BPDish statements are "unrespondable" -- there's nothing the other person can say that will make things better. Not responding can be a tool to take the temperature down.

I see you focusing on what you can control -- yourself and your behaviors.

i80, can you remind me if there are any therapists involved? For you? For your W? Any for the kids (at any age)? Marriage T?

looking forward to hearing more, whenever and whatever is comfortable for you;

kells76

[RestlessWanderer]

i80, you are in the right place. Many of us here have tried to make our partners happy. Many have had success in keeping their relationships intact and have found ways to improve their situation. By staying on here you can learn from these success stories and even contribute to the healing of others. This site has many resources and tools that can help you. Trust your gut, and try to be true to yourself. Just because a person has some traits of BPD doesn’t mean that those behaviors should be tolerated. Working on establishing your boundaries can improve how you act in the relationship (boundaries are meant to help us not them), and that can improve your situation. I don’t recommend focusing on trying to make someone else happy. Happiness can only come from within. But working on not making this worse has value.
Trust the members here. I’ve heard that other sites are less than helpful, but the members here have a genuine interest in helping you.
I was unable to keep my marriage together, yet I will still tell you to trust that many things can be done to help yours. We understand that these behaviors are on a spectrum rather than accepting an all or nothing POV. My W just happened to be on the end of the spectrum that lead me to end our marriage. Many others here are on the end of the spectrum that lends itself to improvement.
At the very least, we are a sounding board free of judgement and rife with shared experiences.

I wish you the best of luck and success.

[i80]

Thanks for the responses. There are no therapists involved. My wife would never go to one, even if she knew she had a problem. Over the years, she has said that she knows she's "broken" and she warned me early in our marriage that when she gets upset she says things she doesn't really mean, and she knows she's not the typical woman, but that's the extent of it. If she even knew I suspected she had a disorder she would not be happy. I have only ever talked to anonymous Internet strangers about it. ;) The ironic thing is one of our adult children is a mental health counselor. But I don't think it would be appropriate to say anything to them about their mother - unless she finally made good on the divorce threats, then I'd at least someone would understand what was going on.

It is good to know someone is out there reading what I say, though. I've felt really alone and hopeless this week. We have a shopping trip scheduled tonight with just the 2 of us and I'm a little afraid of how things might go. It's been very weird not being able to really talk to her this week, and very lonely. I'm trying to remember the last time it was like this, but it's been years since it's been this bad. I think a lot of things have come together, including COVID, that have just made her snap again, finally. It's strange to think we had a really fun, romantic date Friday night and then everything went to hell the next day due to a combination of circumstances beyond my control.

[kells76]

I'm so sorry you've felt so alone in your marriage  That's not how you wanted it to be.

What do you think it would be like if you started seeing a T, just for you? No pressure for your W to join, just you getting some more support. Of course, we'll all still be here -- no worries there. When people with BPD traits are in our lives, we need all the support we can get. I've been in this group for... wow, 7 years? And my husband and I have had a marriage counselor the whole time (he's not the one w/ BPD; his kids' mom has many traits and is a difficult person). Just something to consider as you ride the ups and downs, and are interested in how to make things different.

Could you please remind me of your kids' ages?

It is caring not to want to badmouth their mom to them. I'm not suggesting you say anything specific to any of the kids; just know that sometimes you can talk about the issues that they surely have seen, without blaming/shaming their mom. Often focusing on "how did you feel when that happened" / "how was that for you" can indicate that you are open to hearing about their experiences, whatever they are, and you don't have an agenda to have "you be the good one and Mom be the bad one".

Not sure if I'll have time to pop in again this weekend, but will be back Monday for sure. Please post to whatever level you feel comfortable with; the group is here to support you!

Hang in there;

kells76

[RestlessWanderer]

I echo what Kells said, many if not most of us understand the loneliness felt in these relationships. That’s one of the best things about sharing on here. We may not be able to meet or hear each other’s voices, but we listen and empathize with your experiences. BPDFamily is a godsend to many of us that feel like there’s no one to talk to about this, especially those that feel like no one understands or believes what we’re going through. At the very least you will feel like there’s finally someone to talk to about this.
I’ve often felt the desperation over no responses to my posts. But in time, people will read, relate, and post something on here. It’s a good trick to post updates to move the post higher on the list since the newest ones are listed first.
I second what Kells said about getting a therapist for yourself. That has been so important in my self-care. After all, if we don’t make sure we take care of ourselves first, we’re not able to help our situation.