peaceful divorce?

[mrlala]

Hi Everyone,

I am drafting a divorce with my lawyer.

Did anyone ever try a peaceful no-blame approach?

I don't want to blow everything up with a protective order / emergency situation.

I will just say it did not work out with us. And ask her kindly to move back to her existing old place (which she btw gets super angry about when I suggest it now). We currently live in my house that is only in my name.

We were together on-and-off for 7 years but only married and living together for less than 6 months now.

She does claim to me that I am verbally abusive and gets super angry all the time (like today yelled so much and threw my clothes out on the street). But in the 6 months she had to detox twice from subtances and smashed multiple things, attacked me in front of the kids etc. I have a ton of documentations, recordings, etc. She knows that. I kind of don't want to put this public to avoid her firing at me. I had to leave with my kids multiple times (and she claims to not realize that it was because of her being angry).

What are the chances that a peaceful divorce will work?

Thanks!

[mart555]

Did anyone ever try a peaceful no-blame approach?
...
What are the chances that a peaceful divorce will work?

If there's one thing that I've learned throughout my ordeal is that there's only so much you can control.  I used to want to save everyone with my divorce, thinking that we'd find her a place to live, and we'd share custody of the kids, that all would be rosy.  Turns out I awaken a monster.  So I went into papa bear mode to protect the kids.  I never wanted that, but I had to do it.  I wanted to be fair from the start but she felt entitled. Things turned nasty when she realized that she couldn't control me nor would get everything she wanted.   Even if someone tells you that you may have a peaceful divorce, take it with a grain of salt.  It might happen. Or it might not. But don't let your guards down because of that.  I did, and it could have turned out way worse for me.   

You cannot control the wind, but you can adjust the sail. 

[GaGrl]

What is the situation with the children? Are they yours, hers, shared? Children can change how you handle the divorce.

[mrlala]

2 are mine, 1 is hers

I was kicked out today.. (cops threatened, super yelling, clothes/laptop thrown on the sidewalk...), called her parents+doctor and staying away from home (my home btw).

I am still telling my lawyer that I want to avoid any further explosion and keep it low but she will need to move out. I am not safe at the house and I won't let my kids around her either anymore. So hotel it is for me. My kids are at their mothers place.

The usual thousands of messages mix of hate and love came after..

And I did not even mention the divorce so we will see how this will go. but I will still try to keep it as calm and reasonable as possible. I am also sure that she will be more in trouble than me if not.

[livednlearned]

Can you share a little with us about how, based on past patterns of behavior, you anticipate she will respond? She'll be enraged (hello, BPD). Are there related concerns? Anything from her prior relationship to go on?

In an earlier post you mention she has been violent with you.

Do you have specific concerns about how she'll behave that you want to address?

One thing to prioritize above peaceful is safety.

Do you have a specific plan for how to address your safety?

[mrlala]

Yes - I am just staying away and dont let my kids near her. But it's only day 1 and the divorce is not even filed yet. My lawyer wants to get a vacate order since she still has her old apartment. So fingers crossed she will just have to go back there.

[mrlala]

In regards to behavior, I am not physically afraid of her but I am afraid of her calling the cops on me and getting arrested again. Whats just happening is so 6 years ago I thought we would be over these kind of things. Of course I would not have married her like that. For a few years it went reasonably well.

[ForeverDad]

When my marriage imploded, I had called the police.  However, one of the officers asked me to hand my preschooler over to his mother and "step away".  I didn't realize what that meant at the time because he shrieked and clung closer.  After a long moment the officer said, "Work it out" and they left.

A few months of separation later, my new divorce lawyer told me he was a former police officer and the policy is to separate the couple when on a domestic dispute call, guess who always gets carted off?

So don't assume whether you'll get a listening ear or that the facts matter.

Fortunately I had been recording and I was later able to prove I wasn't the one misbehaving that day.

[livednlearned]

I am afraid of her calling the cops on me and getting arrested again.

Oof. She has already made false allegations of domestic violence, that's a hard hill to climb. 

You may not get a peaceful divorce, although you have some important leverage that can make a big difference in containing her worst instincts. That counts as peace for many of us here.

It might be possible she'll cool her jets and return to some kind of baseline, but you know her levels of aggression better. In the past, after a fight would she return to her home?

If you think her tendency will be to stay put and hope this last fight will pass and blow over, how do you anticipate she'll respond if you write a note asking her to give you space (and move back to her place)?

[mrlala]

From my experience, she will refuse to leave the house which is much nicer than her apartment. She feels that it is unfair that she has to leave even if it is my house on paper and I am the only one paying or even earning money.

Bottom line is that I can not go home right now and my children also not. And she and I just cant live together and cant be married. It's not healthy at all.

My goal is to avoid this fight with court and authorities we used to do in the past when everything blew up.

[mrlala]

I just summarized violence and drug abuse of  the less than 6 months of marriage to 2 pages and I am feeling sick at looking at it and how I live like this. I sent it to the lawyer but as I said, I don't really want to use it. I hope it will be possible to find a solution together.

[ForeverDad]

I hope it will be possible to find a solution together.

Hopium is not a fix.  Does she have a lawyer?  Your lawyer may share the facts so her lawyer can explain to her where she stands.  That you own the residence and she has a separate apartment makes the outcome obvious but she will likely only see her own perceptions.  Your lawyer may need to file for your 'possession' of your own home.

If you live in a community property state, that may blur the ownership of your home a bit.  However, yours is a very short marriage and there are no children of the relationship, much simpler to undo the marriage.  That is a legal matter beyond peer support.

[mrlala]

That's true - but also hope dies last So let's see.. sometimes my paranoia kicks in and I am afraid of her reaction but I have to remind myself that the outcome will be good even if the road is hard. I will try peaceful but I know she will not be pleased. Also, we luckily agreed to a prenup that protects the house and everything.

[mrlala]

She does not have a lawyer because she does not know about it yet... :O

[livednlearned]

I just summarized violence and drug abuse of  the less than 6 months of marriage to 2 pages

 

Is your desire for peace a euphemism for appeasement? A lot of us here are/were conflict-avoidant and sought unsuccessfully to appease a high-conflict spouse.

Sometimes a lawyer can dangle leverage that works to curb bad behaviors. However it's still good to have the assertive back-up plan in your back pocket so that you can move forward if she remains entitled.

Do you live in a one-party consent state? If so, you can record without her permission. That might be something to consider if you fear she'll make false allegations again. Some members will also keep receipts to show timestamps, or will keep detailed logs of when they left the house, where they went.

How does the vacate order work where you live?

If she has to be served, what are the chances she will leave without some kind of domestic assistance?

Is she communicating with you right now?

[mrlala]

she is texting a lot but i am not responding. she tried to find me in the hotel but then gave up.

there are chances that she will leave my place, I think. I hope.

we are trying to convince her to leave when she gets served with the divorce. if not, this might take a few months my lawyer says. I could go for the emergency order and sometimes I think I should, but again, I kind of don't want to blow anything up. my lawyer thinks I am stupid for not going full force. Am I? Will this be dangerous for me? I am staying away for sure.

[ForeverDad]

Whenever it becomes evident she has moved out, change the locks and never let her get keys again.  There's a risk if the kids get together that one of them may let her in but hey there's always a kink, a weak link, in every approach.

If she says she needs to return for something left behind, don't let her inside, bring it outside or offer to take it to a neutral exchange location.

[GaGrl]

You and your two children can not return to the home you own and that the children know as their home, because of your wife's violence and drug use.

You are willing to let this situation continue for several month's because...why?

What about your wife's situation and needs takes priority over having your children in your/their home?

Your lawyer may be harsh, but I can see his point.

[mrlala]

I agree with changing locks etc. once she moved out. And, yes, I am not going to the house with and without kids until she has moved out.

Well, I hope based on the pressure she has in regards to DCF in her life, her doctor knowing most of the facts, her knowing that I have a ton of evidence of drug abuse etc., and even a tiny logical thinking that everything is in my name with prenup, that we can convince to move out without blowing the emergency whistle which would cause so much destruction for everyone involved.

I am absolutely not ok with waiting months and will then find other steps. My lawyer says we can always then go for some expedited vacate hearing.

[mrlala]

One more thing, she started doing the right thing in terms of drugs by telling her doctor and sticking to her prescription since a few weeks. So overall she was moving in the right direction. So she has to continue that.

[livednlearned]

I hope based on the pressure she has in regards to DCF in her life, her doctor knowing most of the facts, her knowing that I have a ton of evidence of drug abuse etc., and even a tiny logical thinking that everything is in my name with prenup, that we can convince to move out without blowing the emergency whistle

Often we gain the most peace by being the most assertive. People with BPD don't have natural boundaries and require others to provide them. It may not seem like it when we're on the receiving end of the abuse, but having no boundaries creates a terrifying kind of chaos.

The question is how to assert a boundary with the minimal amount of force, without giving up the option to impose more weight if needed.

I can see why you don't want to legally escalate this. A similar thing happened in my case (although we had a court order already in place). My ex had a psychotic break and it was well within reason for me to get a protective order (escalation). Instead, our lawyers put in place a modification to the existing order (less escalation).

For my lawyer, she looked at it like, "n/BPDx gets one shot here. He has to agree to a, b, c, otherwise we level this up."

Has your L given you a sense of how something like that might work for your situation?

[mrlala]

Exactly.. we give one shot for moving out otherwise go for an emergency order.

[mrlala]

But I have to say, after hundreds of messages of her flip flopping between "I love you so much" and "I want to ruin your life" that I ignore (by lawyer request), and then hanging out with my kids in the hotel and all of us missing the house, I get more and more angry. But I still somehow feel that this is the right way this time.

Now I have to wait up to one week to get her served with the divorce papers. Then, we can negotiate.

[CoherentMoose]

You cannot control the wind, but you can adjust the sail.

This.  Plan for the worst, hope for the best.  And by all means, do not be alone with her until all legal matters are resolved.  And by planning for the worst, assume she will attempt to entrap you somehow so you end up spending time in jail.  There are a few stories in here describing just that.  It may not happen, but plan and prepare.  You are in the up position at the moment with your evidence.  Don't give that away.  Drive hard for a solution as fast as you can.  Good luck.  CoMo

[mrlala]

Here an update:

She evaded service for a few days before she accepted. We presented her a "nice" cover letter asking her to move out with the papers.

But she refuses to move out and says I can just come home and that it is safe. I said I will file a motion to vacate this week if she does not move out. In the mean time, she had a chance to re-new her voucher for her existent and fully furnished apartment but she seemed to on purpose have missed the deadline.

I do everything according to my lawyer to be very clear and to not send mixed signals at all. When it was clear that she had to re-new her voucher Friday, my lawyer suggested to call her parents who were reasonable in the past and know about many issues. Unfortunately, her mother answered and accused me of the weirdest things like locking doors in the house so she can't fix the internet for her son etc. WTF? Her mother also said that I ruined my wifes life in the last 7 years and she said "I would kill you if I could".

So slowly I am losing hope that this will go peacefully. My next step is to file the motion to vacate but this will involve details such as her drug abuse and violence which then will let everything explode.

She now texts me "You are like a toddler playing with a loaded gun without safety." - I see that as a clear threat depending on what you assume is the gun. Her? Me doing legal stuff?.. It's crazy..

[yeeter]

A friend of mine told me some years ago with his divorce.   A lot of time and money spent trying to work things out peacefully

And lawyers have a professional obligation to try to mediate and keep things out of the court system

And that is appropriate for the majority of divorces. After some time passes, the parties “usually “get the emotions in check

But for someone with a disorder, that is not possible. Even if they wanted to they do not have the capacity to manage their emotions

So the usual approach, the approach that the legal professionals will advise, simply becomes enabling

Don’t get me wrong anything you can do to make it go peaceful is worth doing. But do not fool yourself for one minute that she will suddenly become ‘reasonable’. 

Yep it sucks and not what you ‘want’.  But again, enabling poor behavior will only cost you money and grief

The only way around, is through. 

Hugs.

[livednlearned]

"You are like a toddler playing with a loaded gun without safety."

This is a projection.

She is the toddler.

Emotionally, she is not able to regulate her feelings and all that goes with that.

It can't hurt to make sure you are never alone with her, not without a neutral third party present. Record if you can. Keep a log of when you come and go.

When people are in a one-down position they can become desperate people who do desperate things.

MIL seems to have become a negative advocate, a sign your stbx has been working off stage.

What happens once the order to vacate has been filed?

[mrlala]

Maybe it is a projection or she means that if I expose her drug abuse and other stuff she will get massive problems with DCF and her custody fight about her son?

I agree with "working off stage" - I don't even know how she keeps track of all the stories she tells to other people.

However, she now started sending nudes and tells me that she is more horny than ever. And then see if I really want a divorce. Of course, I am not going there.

Once the order is filed, there will be another order for short notice and then the judge will decide if she has to move out so I can finally go back home. But the drug abuse and stuff will be on record then.

[livednlearned]

Maybe it is a projection or she means that if I expose her drug abuse and other stuff she will get massive problems with DCF and her custody fight about her son?

Maybe it's both ...

But the drug abuse and stuff will be on record then.

It will be interesting to see if it goes anywhere. Honestly, I was shocked how little court seemed to care about the substance abuse. Or at least, how many bites of the apple my ex was given.

It seems to be based on therapeutic jurisprudence where litigants are treated with respect and dignity.

In family law court this can mean giving disordered people many chances to better themselves versus further punishing them.

[mart555]

Here an update:
<snip snip>
It's crazy..

Welcome to the club. It sucks but it is what it is.  Your ex has likely launched one hell of a smear campaign which is why her mom made these threats.. or it's because she was hoping you'd keep her daughter calm for years to come.

Things will get exciting to say the least but remember what I said in the 2nd post: You cannot control the wind. You can only adjust the sail. 

Remember to cover your ass: record and document.    Yeeter's comment on "A lot of time and money spent trying to work things out peacefully" is also bang on and I wish I had seen something like that years ago. I wasted tons of money trying to work things out peacefully and I'm not further ahead. I've simply wasted tons of money and wasted time.  I still have lots to spend. It sucks but hey, it is what it is: I can only adjust the sail.