the fire that burns twice as bright burns half as long

[JesMald]

Many years ago I crossed paths with what I refer to as a "malignant borderline". Bear with me as I will try not to get bogged down in minutia but this has to be shared.


One evening I found myself and a wingman in a bar in a neighboring town to my own. There was one other person I knew in the bar at the time. There was one very attractive woman in the venue, who had been previously sitting on some other guy's lap and as she approached the bar just so happened to give me a showstopper look - while not an outright overture it was evident that she was intrigued by me. As it went I knew another person in the bar who so happened to be a mutual friend and gave me the 411. I followed up on social media and this girl began eating out of my palm almost immediately. At this point in time, I didn't have the mental health training that I do now and aside from seeing fatal attraction or maybe a scene from girl interrupted, I knew very little about BPD or their tendencies.

During our social media correspondence this girl was very forward, very flirtatious, she was ever so into me, laid the ground work that she was trying to get away from the guy that I had seen her with. She would say things like, "you can call me anytime, if I don't answer I am doing x, y, z." She was extremely hot, absolutely gorgeous, mesmerizing which made the prospect of seeing her even more tantalizing. And she was into me, maybe a little too into me. But I knew no better at the time and we agreed to schedule a date. The love bombing had begun, the idealization phase was in full force.

Started with Dinner and pretty benign small talk and then we went to the mall and walked around. In doing so I noticed her stealing glances at me out of her peripheral vision and also that we had sort of lost our way in terms of what store we were heading to- she had been navigating per se. I took this as an opportunity to flirt and put her on the spot. I was like, "Where are we?, How did we end up here? Where are we going?" She immediately let out a loud sigh, like something a damsel in distress would do in a 1940s film noir movie, imagine Fay Wray from King Kong. Not quite like Mike Myers from saturday night live coffee talk. We kept walking. I didn't know what to say, I was like this is really awkward. She recovered and put her left hand forward, palm flattened and said, "God, when I look at you!" This was love bombing.

Later we got coffee and sat down and had a thorough, clarified discussion in which her poor boundaries were on full display. In about 30 minutes she told me how she had a heart defect from some years back when someone dosed a soda can she was drinking out of with methamphetamine hits. She also told me that she might have lupus. She didn't work, was in school full time albiet studying an unpragmatic field (which she never finished). She was on medicaid or something similar. And through subsequent further investigation it would become apparent that she would use and or exaggerate her health problems as a power play on guys - almost to the point of munchausen type stuff. She told me she couldn't have a debit card due to not being able to manage money. I would later go on to discover that she also was a habitural shoplifter. She was pushing this vulnerable appearance and I was earting it up. At the time I didn't acknowledge the red flags, probably blinded by her running the table genetically that is. During this discussion she made a lighthearted comment about her behavior being really crazy. And as the time alloted for our date expired - she had an appointment - she made an awkward segway. She said, "Well, I guess you're going to see how I really am." And I thought to myself, well hot damn, I guess I am. I have heard from others about persons with BPD warning them. I take this as a warning.

She took me to my car and before leaving I kissed her good night. I went for her neck and she liplocked me. Immediately she started groaning under her breath, she was sucking my face off like an octopus practically, and momentarily she began grinding her hips like we were having intercourse (twerking). It was incredible, extremely hypersexual, and mutually overwhelming. At one point she transitioned to practically felating my bottom lip and i went to kiss her again deeply. At which point her mask slipped. Splitting, push-pull emotional gymnastic, come here go away - she disengaged from me and was apparently agitated and had this steely cold glance on her face and she said, "Ok, I'm never going to get out of here." I had probably already lost too much blood from my brain to really appreciate the mixed signal or the irrationality of her behavior at the moment. I just looked at her lustily and finished kissing her. One minute she was hypersexual, burning like phosphorous, so incendiary requiring submersion in water to avoid combustion, the next minute as cold as permafrost in Antaractica. I had been kicked off the pedestal and the devaluation had  begun. As it went within two weeks we were not talking any more. She completely turned the tables on me, gaslighted me, and discarded me.

I was not until some years later after working in mental health and talking to other clinicians that I recognized that she was a borderline, a borderline queen you might say. Despite the way she treated me she was still alluring to me and I had always hoped she would come back. She called me 6 months after we parted company giggly clearly playing games and I feigned like I didn't know who she was, she eventually hung up on me and would not accept me calling her back. At that point I left it be. I realized that I was in quicksand with her, the harder I tried the worse it became. No matter how much potential there seemed to be initially nothing was ever going to come of this. About2-2.5 years later she approached me on social media - attempt to friend me. I grilled her pretty harshly and took her to task for the way she had treated me in the past. She apologized but also tried to feign like she did not remember, nearly invoking amnesia as an excuse. She practically tried to lie about remembering me to avoid culpability. The heavy handedness scared her off, i made the mistake of going back in days later and trying to be nice which was a total mistake. Subsequent to that she gaslighted and made up even more sordid unimaginable lies about me. I failed to mention earlier that she was a pathological liar that knew no bounds, culpability was not something she dealt well with.

In the years after our brief dalliance I would learn more about her, I crossed paths with a histrionic that was an acolyte of hers (wolves travel in packs). The borderline used to sell drugs (pills), she used to barter for tattoos (ink for pink), she used to shoplift, she was an accidental pregnancy, her Dad was a deadbeat who was verbally abusive, her Mother weighed almost 400 lbs. So you can bet she got a lot of mixed messages and attachment issues growing up. Every time I dealt with this woman it has been nothing but lies and negativity.

I cannot deny that every now and again I find myself in a stupor - wishing I could start over with this girl. Wanting to go back to the beginning idealization phase. How sickening. I will write more later. I digress.

[khibomsis]

  JesMald, and welcome to the family! Don't worry, on this board are people that get it and understand what you are going through. Some people have been describing the experience of dating a pwBPD as akin to the high you get from hard drugs, and that way of looking at things helps us understand why it can be so hard to "kick the habit".
I guess what I am curious about is why this woman is so central at the level of fantasy? After all, your interaction was intense but limited, yet years later she still haunts your dreams. What did she touch, deep in you, that you feel only came alive with her?

[JesMald]

My mom has borderline traits and growing up with her was hard, I didn't become a borderline because of it but I do think my approach to relationships has paralleled the situation with my mom some. I have nice guy traits and have often coveted ravishing beautiful bad girls, many of whom like me as first but wear the new off me very quickly. Much like the mixed signal or hot and cold emotions I received from my mom, maybe I have often tried to redeem these bad girls, to make them love me again, redeem them in a sense. You might even argue that I could be trying to procure deficits in Mother love via intimate relationships. There is probably a slight obsessive component as well. Part of the problem is that for a long time I feel like I have been living in a shell and haven't had any quality suitors to displace this bpd queen. I have been though some women but like the prince song, "nothing compares to the you." Nothing compares to the endorphins I experienced with that borderline. That was the pinnacle of my romantic endeavors, maybe that intoxicating idealization is what I'm  after. Analogous to chasing the dragon if you will.

It really annoys me how someone can be so into you and give you all the validation and then discard you without any compromise or consideration. It's very all or nothing. Sure, I'm  better off.

To use a deerhunting analogy that was shared with me regarding this situation. This isn't the big whitetail buck you missed, this is the grizzly bear that could've  nearly ripped your face off. Sometimes we crave things that aren't good for us, they might even be completely de-stabilizing.


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 Welcome new member (click to insert in post) JesMald, and welcome to the family! Don't worry, on this board are people that get it and understand what you are going through. Some people have been describing the experience of dating a pwBPD as akin to the high you get from hard drugs, and that way of looking at things helps us understand why it can be so hard to "kick the habit".
I guess what I am curious about is why this woman is so central at the level of fantasy? After all, your interaction was intense but limited, yet years later she still haunts your dreams. What did she touch, deep in you, that you feel only came alive with her?

[JesMald]

Here is some info on nice guy personality types and bpd women.

There is a lot of me in here.
www.nicolamethodforhighconflict.com/bpd-and-the-nice-guy-personality-type/

[khibomsis]

JesMald, I totally get you here. My time in therapy is spent equal parts grieving the end of my BPD relationship and grieving my uNBPD mom. The link between FOO and the energy we attract to ourselves is deep.
If I suggest that exercise is a safer way of getting endorphins than it is not to be facetious but because it really works.
 I did smile to read the nice guy article. I don't want to diss my gender but it is a fact that I have time and again seen nice guys fall prey to female vultures, all the while seeing the perfectly nice girls of my acquaintance suffer with the dregs that seem to inhabit the dating world. It is a conundrum.
 
Yes, we struggle to get used to healthy relationships that don't drive us to the edge of endurance. I can't say I've had the pleasure yet, but I really look forward to it. Not having my face ripped off by a grizzly bear seems like a happy ending.

[Cromwell]

There is something about the habitual shoplifter, the mall, and the rush that turned frigid. This is my own words yours were "the mask slipped" and the "stealing glances"

was it her choice to go there?

[ljwin]

I get the wanting to go back to idealisation phase, it is certainly addictive! I wondered if possibly the attraction to BPD sufferers is that the relationship gets going very quickly. I was with the same women from 16 years old for 17 years, I never thought I would have that young love thing again. They make you feel so comfortable so quickly you feel accepted and loved. This might be part of the attraction.

[JesMald]

There is something about the habitual shoplifter, the mall, and the rush that turned frigid. This is my own words yours were "the mask slipped" and the "stealing glances"

was it her choice to go there?

Her choice to go where? How do you mean? I found out about the shoplifting from collateral reports afterwards.

It should also be shared that when she approached me 2.5 years after having no contact, after I confronted her about the situation from when we met she tried to lie about remember me and later accused me of doing a drive by shooting in her parent's neighborhood, where she was living at the time. #crazy crazy

[Cromwell]

I got a bit confused at what point you got devalued, I mistook it happening in the mall, it happened in the car. never mind.

I think these relationships are easier to write off, culturally at least where im from when its relatitavely short term. id call this a date, both tried to see how it would go, you did some reflecting after, shes troubled woman despite the infactuation.

is this on the right track as a suggestion towards solace?

since then youve learned even more about personality disorders, will be of even more help. Ok there is a proclivity but this is your area to work on and there are ways of doing so.

The end of the 'film Noir'? what do you say?

[tvda]

JesMald, you seem to have a firm (mental) grasp of the connection to your mother and these types of women.

There is a trauma response called repetition compulsion: basically it means repeatedly seeking out the toxic situation you are familiar with (i.e. types of women like you mom who abused or neglected you, and basically witheld love), in the hope that this time the outcome will be different - and you get the love from 'your mom' that the wounded child within you still deeply craves.

Naturally no good comes of these situations.

It puzzles me though that you come onto this forum to talk about something so brief, that happened so long ago. It must have made quite an imprint on you. Not surprising given your maternal history. Do you feel that maybe you want to explore and process some of this stuff, and that's why you've decided to share this?

[JesMald]

That was the last woman that made me feel alive. The last spark. The last time I was enamored. I've been through many women since then but they have been very pedestrian experiences
 

JesMald, you seem to have a firm (mental) grasp of the connection to your mother and these types of women.

There is a trauma response called repetition compulsion: basically it means repeatedly seeking out the toxic situation you are familiar with (i.e. types of women like you mom who abused or neglected you, and basically witheld love), in the hope that this time the outcome will be different - and you get the love from 'your mom' that the wounded child within you still deeply craves.

Naturally no good comes of these situations.

It puzzles me though that you come onto this forum to talk about something so brief, that happened so long ago. It must have made quite an imprint on you. Not surprising given your maternal history. Do you feel that maybe you want to explore and process some of this stuff, and that's why you've decided to share this?

[JesMald]

The bottom line is this. Don't date women with bpd, don't date anyone with a personality disorder or cluster b traits if you can help it. You will never be happy. You turn around and run far, far away in the other direction.

As for the duration, this woman harassed me on and off for 4 or 5 years. So in that regard it wasn't that brief.

[brighter future]

That was the last woman that made me feel alive. The last spark. The last time I was enamored. I've been through many women since then but they have been very pedestrian experiences
 

I can identify with what you're saying here. After the rollercoaster ride with my uBPD ex-g/f, I'd gladly take a normal, loving, and pedestrian relationship any day of the week. I'm thankful to be off of that crazy carnival ride. After 10 months, I can clearly see how unhealthy it really was.

[Cromwell]

The bottom line is this. Don't date women with bpd, don't date anyone with a personality disorder or cluster b traits if you can help it. You will never be happy. You turn around and run far, far away in the other direction.

run away from the desires?

what if Id say that its more than possible to have an enjoyable relationship, the happiness, but do so without the attachment that takes place. this emotional attachment disorder that we since learned leads to so much suffering and confusion.

is it possible?

[khibomsis]

Of course its possible. But we have to heal that within ourselves that craves the burning