I should have known better - what a mess Im in. Part 2

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

This thread was split from this discussion: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=348193.0


Things have settled now and she seems to have accepted that the sale is going through. Each day we get closer - the less likely she is to create trouble as she knows we will also be letting down 4 other people in the chain.

end of month all the legal stuff should be done so not long now.

not easy seeing it through and we have so much stuff to move its gonna be tough

still very difficult to live with her - everything is always my fault etc etc

I do bitterly regret coming back - hope I can end it for good this time and MOVE ON.

[MrRight]

This thread was split from this discussion: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=348193.0


Things have settled now and she seems to have accepted that the sale is going through. Each day we get closer - the less likely she is to create trouble as she knows we will also be letting down 4 other people in the chain.

end of month all the legal stuff should be done so not long now.

not easy seeing it through and we have so much stuff to move its gonna be tough

still very difficult to live with her - everything is always my fault etc etc

I do bitterly regret coming back - hope I can end it for good this time and MOVE ON.

[cash05458]

stay the course man...this will pay off in the end...

[GaGrl]

You have a lot of logistical issues to play out by the end of the month.

I encourage you to include the logistics of moving her into the new flat WITHOUT YOU as one of those logistical plans.

Specifically, when you pack, how can you separate your belongings from here so that your belongings do not go to her flat? Where do your belongings go -- to your mother's flat? To a rented storage unit?

Who is moving her belongings into the new flat? A moving company? You and your son? At the end of the moving day -- if you have been involved -- how will you leave?

Again, specifically, what will you do and say to walk out of her flat and NOT STAY a single night.

Imagine it is the end of moving day, and you are ready to leave, and your wife indicates she never believed you would not live there with her, and she tries to prevent you from leaving (verbally and perhaps physically). What would you do?

This will be critical to your success in separating.

[Rev]

I do bitterly regret coming back - hope I can end it for good this time and MOVE ON.

If you can say this over and over and over again, without blaming yourself for coming back - then --- oh I don't know... tattoo it somewhere.   LOL

Seriously, the tension is always highest when we are closest to our goals.

Find the still point in your soul - go there to rest every now and then. This is will not be easy, but it is almost over.

You got this.

That's us cheering you on in the corner...

Rev

[MrRight]

GaGrl

you are putting pressure on me!

My stuff is mainly clothes books and my business - it could just about fit into my car.

I was thinking of leaving same day after the delivery van goes and having my gear picked up a few days later by a man I know with a van.

She could well create quite a fuss while I am moving my stuff out - if she sees me instruct the delivery men to put my stuff in my car - that could spell trouble too.

I am not sure how this will play out. It would be nice to sit with her and say how I feel and say Im not moving in - but then I know how that will end - threats etc. She has already said she will lock me up until the divorce goes through and I agree to the financial settlement she wants. Primarily I need to get away from her and get to a lawyer. My possessions etc I can do without at first.

But the first stage is getting this sale done - when contracts are exchanged I will hopefully start to think more seriously about what is going to happen on that day.

Yes she could well try to stop me - I may need police help as I said before.

I suspect she is nervous about selling this house (where I owe a mortgage) to a flat where there will be no debt for me to pay off. She knows how easy it will be for me to walk. I will also save a ton of related money - travel/hotel costs (as we visit this city far away to see our son twice a month). I will basically easily have enough money to live on and support her for a while.

Thanks for your support.

[MrRight]

Getting closer now - the house sale is still on - still awaiting all the legal formalities - goodness the legal people do move slowly. The only way this is going to collapse is if someone changes their mind - but the longer it goes the less likely that is - and people have invested money in surveys - mortgage applications etc - and there is a tax holiday ending at march end - so I am virtually praying day by day not to hear any bad news.

Yes I can see that it is necessary for me to leave her the day we move house. The practical issues are there - I have my business stock etc - a good car load - and my other possessions - clothes - books - hifi etc. I would need to take by business stuff with me as I will need a source of income. The rest could be collected later - maybe by a removal company.

I have run though in my mind what is going to happen on the day and I cannot see her let me going without a fuss. She will accuse me of abandoning her etc - particularly as she will be in the midst of boxes etc with all the moving work to do - she is bound to beg me to stay until she is moved in and then of course there will be more pleas day by day - stay until this or that. No - I cannot let that happen.

My mother has emailed me to say that when I am ready I can once again take a room from her until I have found a place - that I will most likely do.

I have been reading other stories on this forum - people breaking free at last - it inspires me. Also someone said his partner becomes unstable if he leaves the house - or even room - I can relate to that. She has all the keys to the house and my car keys. But when the move happens I will make sure I have my car keys - mobile phone and bank card - its all I need if it is necessary to go without any possessions I can manage.

I would like to ask though - once the removal van has left and I find myself in the flat with her alone and wanting to put an end to this nightmare - what can I say to her - how should I approach it?

[Rev]

I would like to ask though - once the removal van has left and I find myself in the flat with her alone and wanting to put an end to this nightmare - what can I say to her - how should I approach it?

So that is an interesting question. And I would really like to put some thought into it - because in my case - the answer needed to be "nothing" except you are not going to bully me any more - and that was on the phone when she was threatening to not sign the separation papers, got angry with me, and then tried to charm me back.

So I have never really had closure.  You seem to be able to have that, something that may be very valuable in your healing, if it goes well for you.

So here are three questions that will shed some light on the matter -

1) What are you hoping to feel after you've said your piece?
2) If you could wave a magic wand and say anything without fear of it not going badly, what might you say?
3) What do you envision your relationship to her will look like in pragmatic terms?  Will you ever see her again, for example?

I'll take some time to ponder this.

Rev

[MrRight]

1) What are you hoping to feel after you've said your piece?

Im not hoping for anything in this particular regard. Maybe the feeling that what I have said is accepted as my truth.

2) If you could wave a magic wand and say anything without fear of it not going badly, what might you say?

There is nothing much I would fear of saying to her. If I bring up our son and the way she bullied him through childhood to achieve on her behalf - but why bring that up. Its one of the things I could never forgive her for  - though I could forgive her for much. I want to keep it reasonable and short and then I want to go.

3) What do you envision your relationship to her will look like in pragmatic terms?  Will you ever see her again, for example?

As we have a son who is now just in adulthood - I guess we may see each other again - but I will be keen not to see her once I have moved away. With all her practical concerns taken care of I will see no reason to meet with her. We will no doubt stay in touch via email over money as I will be supporting her in the short term.

I think it most likely I will simply tell her Im not staying in the flat and begin to move out my stuff. I will probably remind her that I only returned to be with her while the house sold and now she has her own flat in the city of her own choosing - I want to pick up where I left off in November where I had a flat and was doing well. And of course I want us to start divorce proceedings. I expect she will beg me to stay a few days until she settles in. That's where I will need to be firm and I may then start to remind her how she told me what a useless procrastinator I am - no purpose in life and how every difference of opinion resulted in me on my knees - how I'm obsessed with food - lazy - spend most of my time in the toilet or kitchen. And I will say no thanks I dont want any more of that so goodbye.

Thats how I see it - what will happen - we will see.

[Rev]

Maybe the feeling that what I have said is accepted as my truth.

 I want to keep it reasonable and short and then I want to go.

So your question is how you might approach it.  And after re-reading this, and hearing some of the things she accused you of, etc, I am thinking that all the wisdom you need is right here...

The only acceptance of the truth you speak will come from you - for you. And you'll see that, as I suggested, coming back here is perhaps the place you'll find closure. Based on what you have written here, I severely doubt you'll get any from her.

So in your second statement, the short is the only was to come close to having something reasonable. Personally, I would stick to the objective facts - I am a leaving now. I will be in contact with you over email for our son when necessary. Don't contact me for any other reason than that. Whether or not you mention divorce or a lawyer is debatable - not there to see. But, seriously, I would try to limit what you need to say to five sentences.  Have you heard of the term - gray rocking?  That's the approach I would take.

Hang in there.

Rev

[MrRight]

Thanks Rev.

I am sure you are right. Talking things over with her or going into reasons has already been done. When I left her last time I wrote and said enough to her in person to make her realise I had no more interest in the marriage and wanted out. But she shamed me into coming back and played on my pity. And I think she sees things quite simply - I must want the marriage to continue otherwise I would not have come back. Only physical actions now will matter - not words.

I think in the end - only me moving on and finding another partner will convince her how serious I am. She has said in the past her door will remain open unless I start a new relationship - which is actually what I am hoping for once this has all been sorted out. Only a successful transition to a new and healthy relationship will redeem me from the last 20 years of hell.

[Rev]

A big thumbs up

[GaGrl]

I get the impression from what you wrote that you go into situations with your wife having a vague idea of what you will say, but when The actual conversation takes place, you "wing it" and become overwhelmed with her demands.

That is why we are encouraging you to PLAN and PRACTICE.

Plan your actions on the day of the move, down to the details of walking out of her flat and into your car.

Plan exactly what you are going to say to her when you leave. Plan 4-5 simple, firm sentences. Plan to repeat ONLY those sentences when she challenges you with her demands and twisted logic. Plan to call the police if she attempts to block you from leaving or take your keys.

Practice these actions in your mind. Walk through the scenario and "see" yourself doing them.

Practice the 4-5 sentences you will say. Look at yourself in the mirror and say them out loud. Make it real.

This level of PLANNING and PRACTICE may feel uncomfortable, but I think you need it.I

What do you think? On a scale of 1 to 10, how ready do you feel you are to do this and be successful?

[MrRight]

On a scale of 1 to 10 I feel about 8

the daily hardship of living with her - as it pushed me out before - will get me out again.

I get very tired working all day until midnight and I need a lie down at about mid day - I can never do this - as she will immediately start to rage. This is not to mention the general misery and grind of the days - no music - no reading the news - no general reading - except for books by people like Henry Ford - or reading about how Bezos made billions - she is ok with me reading that as long as I get the right message.

so I am exhausted with this life - its self survival

but yes I will practice and get it right when the time comes.

[Boll2017]

Mr Right,

Thanks for writing your story.   Your candor about her controlling and overpowering behavior really rings true for my situation. 

I too left before.   Her promises to not interfere with my communication with my family went by the way side.   The abuse restarts every few days.  The only solution is to cut them off. 

I am ready to go.   I will pack my car when she goes out per her routine on Mondays. The advice to have a few sentences ready is also my strategy.  I will stand near a door.  If she starts her bullying (she has thrown things at me in the past)  I will run out the door.   Car will be out of sight.

You may want to consider using a lawyer for your communication once gone.  This will protect you from the inevitable abuse and emotional blackmail.  It will also enable you to go no contact and start your healing process.  My plan is to leave a note containing the lawyer contact info.   The note will also include information about finances - I will continue to pay the bills etc.

Keep us posted.   You are ahead of me.   I too have a real estate sale in the picture but have no buyer.  In my case it is a rental property so no move complication. 

Thanks again for sharing.   It really hit a chord with me. 

[MrRight]

Thanks for your input boll2017

You dont mention if children are involved our how old the relationship is.

19 years married is bad enough - I am determined there is going to be no 20th anniversary.

I know that had there been no child in my case - I could have wrapped up this fiasco in the first or second year - but I was dumb enough to get her pregnant. I cany say I regret that - only because I have a wonderful son. But I was always gonna stick around until he got to 18+ which I have done.

I have left twice in 2 years but in truth cant move in until I have sold the family house and settled her where she wants to be. The current home is isolated - no transport links - and she wants to go and live in the same city where our son is studying. Something I understand and support. In addition - once the house is gone I will have enough money to start off a new life - no mortgage - bills - and just an allowance for her, for the time being.

So with this in mind I have twice returned - though on this occasion I wish now I had stayed away and informed her I would be back to help clear out and pack once contracts are exchanged. But she cornered me - got me coming her to help out in practical matters and she literally would keep me here and make a fuss if I tried to go. On the last occasion I gave in to her pleas to return to the house to see through the sale - and then I would go where I want. But she twisted it once I was back and started saying its great we got back together. I have no option now but to sit it out and wait for the move to happen. It will either happen before the end of March or something catastrophic will happen to the chain of buyers below us (there are 4 in the chain including us). There is a government sponsored tax holiday for house purchases that will end at end of March and all eyes are on that deadline not least mine - praying every day the legal people do their stuff and nobody gets cold feet or loses their job.

Wish me luck as its my best route out of this nightmare. Last night she kicked me with all her force between the legs just because the duvet cover and duvet were not lined up correctly (my job) - fortunately she missed the sensitive parts. I was very lucky. She apologised later - but what good is that? It will happen again.

Good luck to you too and hope you can get out and stay out - can you afford to support that rented house etc and find yourself accomodation?

[Rev]

You may want to consider using a lawyer for your communication once gone.  This will protect you from the inevitable abuse and emotional blackmail.  It will also enable you to go no contact and start your healing process.  My plan is to leave a note containing the lawyer contact info.   The note will also include information about finances - I will continue to pay the bills etc.

This is exactly (well almost) what I did - and I am so glad that I did. It was that last day that I spoke with her face to face. I just kept her off balance from there.  Did not speak to her face to face until the day I she showed up at my place of work, unannounced with personal effects in tow that she had previously hidden. That conversation lasted about 90 seconds - if that.  I saw her one other time a regional gathering of the organization we both work for (worked in her case - she has since been constructively dismissed). That day we did not speak. She did not stay for lunch and left in tears at the end of the day.

People who suffer from BPD suffer a lot - I am still amazed at what I need to do to keep myself safe from her.  Today, I am just starting to find forgiveness, 18 months later. But I had much less invested than you two seem to have.

Keeping her off balance, doing things in writing, giving as little information as possible, responding rather than reacting - hard as that was, it prevented things from being worse.

Hang in there everyone.

[MrRight]

Well she is becoming very unbalanced - she has admitted she does not want the sale to go through - prefers to stay and improve the house - get a better price and sell later on in the summer. She believes we are being lied to by the agents solicitors others in the chain etc - full of suspicion - has accused the agent of misleading us and is basically making demands that nobody can deliver. You know how real estate works - when the legal people call you to say we are ready to go - then you go. Until then what can be done? She has been told this but keeps up with the harrassing phone calls to the agents etc. and she is hoping the chain will fold so she can tell he lawyer we will have to withdraw from our purchase.

At the same time she has said she will not withdraw until we get word the chain has failed - someone cant sell for whatever reason and our buyer cannot purchase.

She understands that if she pulls the plug on our purchase in scotland without good reason - the blame and the bills we be on her.

So I am hanging in there waiting to hear from the legal people that we are ready.

I wont be living with her come april - whatever happens.

She has all the keys to the house and I would have to knock her out to get out of here. Unless I climb through a window early one morning when she is dozing as I previously planned. I wonder if this counts as imprisonment.

[Rev]

Well she is becoming very unbalanced - she has admitted she does not want the sale to go through - prefers to stay and improve the house - get a better price and sell later on in the summer. She believes we are being lied to by the agents solicitors others in the chain etc - full of suspicion - has accused the agent of misleading us and is basically making demands that nobody can deliver. You know how real estate works - when the legal people call you to say we are ready to go - then you go. Until then what can be done? She has been told this but keeps up with the harrassing phone calls to the agents etc. and she is hoping the chain will fold so she can tell he lawyer we will have to withdraw from our purchase.

At the same time she has said she will not withdraw until we get word the chain has failed - someone cant sell for whatever reason and our buyer cannot purchase.

She understands that if she pulls the plug on our purchase in scotland without good reason - the blame and the bills we be on her.

So I am hanging in there waiting to hear from the legal people that we are ready.

I wont be living with her come april - whatever happens.

She has all the keys to the house and I would have to knock her out to get out of here. Unless I climb through a window early one morning when she is dozing as I previously planned. I wonder if this counts as imprisonment.

Thanks for sharing. 

I'm wondering if you shouldn't tunnel your way out. It has more dramatic effect for the movie rights. Plus it would give you something to do. A good pandemic project. Just a thought.

[MrRight]

OK I was planning to leave tomorrow but my son has come to the rescue and said to her he hopes she will wait for the legal processes to complete and not scupper the sale without proper reasons.

She listens to him - probably thinks he wants to live in the flat with her

and so we will wait on and I am staying while this sale and purchase are still in progress.

will keep you updated.

[MrRight]

Well - the sale is off.

She did not have the stamina - we got near to the conclusion but she was pushing and pushing for dates etc - the sellers put their flat back on the market - fair enough - but as our lawyer said - go ahead with our sale and when we are ready - those same sellers may not have sold and would take our offer. But she pulled out of our sale - prompting a very good increased offer from our buyers. Still she wants to remarket the property.

OK I am fed up - I came back at her begging to be here while the house sells and she scuppered it.

In 2 weeks I am going once more - no coming back this time. Minimal communication. I have a strategy to get her out of this house so that I can come in and get it sold properly.

[Rev]

Well - the sale is off.

She did not have the stamina - we got near to the conclusion but she was pushing and pushing for dates etc - the sellers put their flat back on the market - fair enough - but as our lawyer said - go ahead with our sale and when we are ready - those same sellers may not have sold and would take our offer. But she pulled out of our sale - prompting a very good increased offer from our buyers. Still she wants to remarket the property.

OK I am fed up - I came back at her begging to be here while the house sells and she scuppered it.

In 2 weeks I am going once more - no coming back this time. Minimal communication. I have a strategy to get her out of this house so that I can come in and get it sold properly.

Oh... I'm so sorry to hear that. How very frustrating (to say the least!).

I truly hope your strategy pans out and that timing is on your side.

Rev

[MrRight]

I am actually glad the sale fell through.

I need to get away once more and make her realise I will have no future part in her life.

Only then can she decide what she wants to do.

She is obviously going to use every trick to keep me in this nightmare and only separation - permanent and strict - will drive the message home.

When I leave I will inform her I will no longer pay the mortgage or any of the bills. And I will suggest she buys the flat (with her own savings she has) she was going to buy before I returned. She is a little short of money for that but I can raise it for her.

I will keep you posted. Next week  from Wednesday - first chance I get I am out.

[Rev]

I am actually glad the sale fell through.

I need to get away once more and make her realise I will have no future part in her life.

Only then can she decide what she wants to do.

She is obviously going to use every trick to keep me in this nightmare and only separation - permanent and strict - will drive the message home.

When I leave I will inform her I will no longer pay the mortgage or any of the bills. And I will suggest she buys the flat (with her own savings she has) she was going to buy before I returned. She is a little short of money for that but I can raise it for her.

I will keep you posted. Next week  from Wednesday - first chance I get I am out.

Well... when one sees the positives out of a negative, that is only more powerful.

I remember being in the process of trying to get my divorce papers settled and the mistakes she had made were now backing her into a corner. Her charm attempts were no longer landing and she was becoming abusive again - on the attack. Of course by this stage, she's hanging by threads only because I am no longer becoming hooked.

On one particular day, as I was on my way to meet a date from match.com, she calls up and is furious because she had received another letter from my 1st lawyer following up on her inactivity (I actually had two employed at that point - one who was nice who was doing the bulk of the work and one who was female and a total shark - really mean). She was furious.

On the advice of my mentor - that day I simply told her, very calmly - "You know, I am just really getting bored with this whole thing."  That sent her into orbit.

To which I responded, "I'm not sure why you are getting so angry. I have given you exactly what you wanted and what's happening is just a consequence of your decisions."  "

How? How is this a consequence?"  

"You chose to end the relationship."  

"I actually don't think any of this is my fault."  

"Really? Tell me.  In all the years and all the conflict you have undergone, has any part of it ever been your fault?"  

She hung up.  I called her back 15 seconds later and she was sheepish, off balance, and then I had her exactly where I wanted. She signed the papers a month later after another failed attempt to get me back (really feeble this time - she was really spinning).   And then she tried to connect with me one last time after her life started to spin, and that's when I hit her with a cease and desist because she showed up to my place of work on a Sunday morning with personal effects that she had been holding on to, literally an hour before I was to begin leading.  And then I began to really heal.

I am really happy for you, strange as that might sound given the stuff you are wading through. But what you write here, it sounds as if you are finding solid ground underfoot upon which you can start to really walk.

Stay strong. Be well. Peace and grace.

Rev.

[MrRight]

UPDATE

I planned to go on Wednesday since on tuesday I had a lot of business stock arriving and I felt I needed to clear a lot of business before going.

However - I got a golden chance to procure the spare car key from her handbag left unattended - plus she went to bed very late on monday night and was very tired early on tuesday morning. I took my chance - got some clothes on and squeezed through a small kitche window. I almost got stuck but managed to get out of the house into the car and drove away.

A humiliating way to leave but it was either that or trying to leave while she was awake and risking very nasty and irreversible consequences for me if it turned into a fight.

I drove first to a friend who lent me some things and then went to stay in my mum's spare room. She said I could stay as long as I want.

I emailed the wife informing her plus my intentions. I need to get my business back on the rails and she is refusing to co operate and forward me some business stock. It will be inconvenient and expensive to buy in all the gear (from my suppliers) that is sitting in my house, plus lap top printer etc etc - but I will have to as she is using that as leverage.

My next move is to stop her weekly money if she does not co operate.

The house is back on the market. I have informed her I will be making no further mortgage payments and the arrears will be settled when the house sells.

Well I am free again - my family and friends are saying - you have gone back before and will do again. But really I wont. Her response is different this time too - she is not appealing for me to come back this time. I think she feels she cant have me back and continually fearing waking up and finding me gone - well good! It is sinking into her BPD brain.

Thank you all there is still much to be done but I feel I am moving in the right direction.

[SinisterComplex]

Alright MrRight...I will put it like this. You made a declaration. You go back on that...promptly slap yourself in the face and magically find a way to kick yourself in the manhood area. Seriously though...you are done worrying about her emotions or anything to do with her. Time for you to really man up and do YOU.

I am happy you are using this forum as a resource. However, something I really want you to work on is to improve how you view yourself. You do not need to seek validation or answers from anyone else. Just remember the hero gets zero! So, no more saving anyone else, but yourself!

Stay on the path you are now and don't slip up. You deserve happiness, but you find that on your own...not in someone else. Focus on creating more opportunity and let the good opportunities find you. Get rid of the toxic sludge that keeps holding you back.

I truly hope to see you progress.

Cheers and best wishes to you!

-SC-

[cash05458]

there is one thing I have learned in life about going back ...you go back on yourself...and then NOONE is there...she won't be...and you will hate self in end...that does not help...and you end up on not on side...wanting love and understanding...it won't come from a BDP in any form...and you aren't then even there for self...

[MrRight]

there is one thing I have learned in life about going back ...you go back on yourself...and then NOONE is there...she won't be...and you will hate self in end...that does not help...and you end up on not on side...wanting love and understanding...it won't come from a BDP in any form...and you aren't then even there for self...

Yes I was in a very dark depressing place. Worse than the previous occasion when I went back. I never ever want to be there again.

I just told her she will see me briefly once more on completion of our house sale I will arrive in a van with a neutral person to collect my possessions. That will be it.

[Rev]

Yes I was in a very dark depressing place. Worse than the previous occasion when I went back. I never ever want to be there again.

I just told her she will see me briefly once more on completion of our house sale I will arrive in a van with a neutral person to collect my possessions. That will be it.

Hey there my friend...

Nothing really to add - just wanted to reach out in friendship.  Sending positive vibes your way.

Rev

[MrRight]

The house is sold.

We exchanged contracts today and we have 6 days to clear the house.

My unpleasant task is going to the house for several days to help wife put all her possessions into a storage until as she will be going with suitcase out of my life to find accomodation - with of course a substantial sum of money in the bank.

Not looking forward to it but must be done. She is still up to her tricks - pretending that she had to spend a few days in hospital due to heart issues brought on by me leaving.

This time next week it should all be over.

[SinisterComplex]

The house is sold.

We exchanged contracts today and we have 6 days to clear the house.

My unpleasant task is going to the house for several days to help wife put all her possessions into a storage until as she will be going with suitcase out of my life to find accomodation - with of course a substantial sum of money in the bank.

Not looking forward to it but must be done. She is still up to her tricks - pretending that she had to spend a few days in hospital due to heart issues brought on by me leaving.

This time next week it should all be over.

Yes it must be done. Cue the song Cut the Chord from Shinedown...Freedom...la la la. Good thing you are seeing her actions for what they are...tricks. Stay strong good sir. Keep us updated. I really want to see you turn it around and find happiness and freedom.

Even if you are not into Shinedown or that kind of music I encourage you to give the song a listen or at least check out the lyrics. For example..."Cause agony brings no reward
For one more hit and one last score
Don't be a casualty, cut the cord"

Cheers and best wishes!

-SC-