what to respond to this letter?

[kiwigal]

Hubby and I could do with some advice... we just got a text from my SIL that reads; "Just would like to say that I’m feeling a very cold breeze coming from you both

[kiwigal]

Sorry! For some reason I seem to have lost half my post.

The letter reads; "Just would like to say that I’m feeling a very cold breeze coming from you both

[Methuen]

This seems like a classic hook to bait you, and if you bite, she will reel you in.  If it were me I would ignore it.  If you respond, your reaction reinforces  her behavior and you could see more of it.  

[kiwigal]

Thank you! Im so sorry that for some reason only the first two lines of my post shows but yes, you are so right. It feels like bait.
And I dont have the energy for it as where I am living; weve had tsunami warnings, earthquakes, im about to go into full time study etc... its taxing.
We try to respond together, but always as if its coming from hubby alone... so that we can dodge the triangulation. Do you think hubby should respond something to his sis like "just busy" or just leave it too?

[tvda]

Hi Kiwigal,

I think it would help you and your husband both to first jointly decide on what your desired outcome is. Among other things, to take some of the power back in a skewed dynamic.

So my advice is: first decide on wether or not you want to speak your own truth honestly (and face the consequences potentially) or want to placate her in order to have a more peaceful live yourselves.

Al too often we are at the mercy of the whims of the other disordered person, and this causes a feeling of chaos and powerlessness on our side. You too have control over this situation, even if you can not control how she reacts or behaves.

But as I said, think about what YOU want out of this situation, and then respond accordingly.

[SepiaScarf]

Talk about a double-edged sword.

I feel like if you don't respond in some fashion, that could trigger fear of abandonment and all the behavior that can come with it.

I also agree that responding can reinforce this behavior.

I always tend to respond because my uBpd Mother likes to use it against me when I don't. However, my responses are short and sweet. "Wish I could talk doing xyz". Usually something superficial.

Good luck..thinking of you 

[zachira]

You have been given some good feedback on how you might respond to your SIL. I agree that it is a double edged sword that no matter what you do, you will not likely get the kind of respectful response you would expect from a decent person just probably more hurtful dysregulated emotional behaviors.  

[kiwigal]

Your responses are all hugely helpful and validating for me.

I can absolutely recognise that we are being 'baited'. I pinpointed my vulnerability as a responsibility (over-functioning)... so I feel guilty like; "oh maybe I haven't explained things well enough, maybe I owe her to trying"... or just "well I owe her some response, don't I?"
I often feel guilty that I haven't explained things well enough... but then had to realise that you cant explain the truth to someone who doesn't want to hear.

This line is powerful "Among other things, to take some of the power back in a skewed dynamic".
Sitting with this, I think we have three options:

1. Placating to buy some more time by hubby replying"no problems, just busy, a lot on! Take care"
Pros: Offers us space and reinforces the new normal
Cons: She is likely to move into charming and love bombing to try and force the issue into an ultimatum - and then this may be used against us.

2. Being honest but boundaried:
"There isn't a problem but as you've said, the relationship isn't the same. Responses reflect that. kiwigal is moving into full-time study, so is needing to focus and I support her. In this busy season, we are needing to take things easy"

Pros: We feel more congruent with our core values of being truthful and realistic. It guards our reality that we are a busy family with 5 kids! It speaks to the reality that they (sis and bil) chose the relationship we have... text from them in 2019 Obviously our relationship isn’t as it used to be due to the concerns you had. If you are saying it isn’t necessary to discuss then we will leave it there and carry on to which my response was: If you’re okay to leave things as they are then yes, I’d like to move on and if you’re ever wishing to seek to understand, the door remains open as per the conditions... (those conditions were that we meet with a counsellor present, of their choice which they declined to as they didn't see it necessary).

Cons: Likelihood of her leaving it there? zero. Probably move into a more dominant position of seeking to control.

3. Don't respond.
Pro's: moves us out of any explanations
Con's: She will become very dysregulated and we are likely to face eventually dealing with the MIL (BPD + enabler).

Now to decide what way?

[kiwigal]

Talk about a double-edged sword.

I feel like if you don't respond in some fashion, that could trigger fear of abandonment and all the behavior that can come with it.

I also agree that responding can reinforce this behavior.

I always tend to respond because my uBpd Mother likes to use it against me when I don't. However, my responses are short and sweet. "Wish I could talk doing xyz". Usually something superficial.

Good luck..thinking of you 

I love this... something superficial. Does she come back and try and fight? Do you just ignore the responses?

[Mtnlvr8]

Really tough. I have been in a similar position so many times. I don't know how similar our bp people are, but for me, saying something superficial or not responding could feed into her narrative that I'm avoiding/ abandoning her, but too much response falls into the trap where I'm trying to justify my behavior. I think honest, but boundaried has worked best for me recently, but we also need to remind ourselves that they may respond in a dysregulated way no matter what we say and agonizing over saying the perfect thing doesn't help the situation because it's not really in our control.

I also really liked this line  "Among other things, to take some of the power back in a skewed dynamic." I think taking power back involves understanding that there is no perfect response to her and her response to you is not in your control- therefore taking back power over your own emotional well-being.

I would love to hear a follow-up on what you decide and how it goes!

[SepiaScarf]

I love this... something superficial. Does she come back and try and fight? Do you just ignore the responses?

Kiwigal,
 It usually just buys me time, she will shoulder a couple of these maybe 3-5, before she starts in with the: I always start our conversation, you never reach out first, you don't support me, or the famous pointing out whom we spend more time with than her.

I do think the more I have done this the more used to it she gets and is, therefore, less reactive but if I am not careful she starts in with the fear of abandonment.

For me its a boundary, I don't have to answer you immediately and I don't have to check on you every single day( not doing these is "not supporting her"), I also don't have to engage if I am not in a healthy place to do so. So most of the time I use this to give me time to get to a place where I can take a minute and engage in a healthy way, mostly this means listening to her talk about herself for a few minutes and sharing some superficial day-to-day things with her. I have to gear up still for these conversations because the superficialness of it hurts sometimes still, The faking pleasantries. If she tries to turn it sour I refocus her on talking about herself. "Hey what about the promotion you were offered at work"( she thrives on being the center of attention)

Keeping the peace while I work on boundaries.

SS

[Methuen]

... so I feel guilty like; "oh maybe I haven't explained things well enough, maybe I owe her to trying"... or just "well I owe her some response, don't I?"
I often feel guilty that I haven't explained things well enough... but then had to realise that you cant explain the truth to someone who doesn't want to hear.

yes to this!

I think some of us have learned that if someone doesn't understand something, then we need to do a better job of explaining it.  Sometimes that logic just doesn't apply, and pwBPD fall into this category.  For example, one of the "tools" I have come to accept is that JADEing doesn't work with a BPD, and the "e" in JADE stands for "explain".  In fact, us "explaining" feels invalidating to the pwBPD, and often results in an actual escalation in the conflict, instead of resolution.  It's counterintuitive.  It took me a while to figure this out.  So when my mom is dysregulating now, I don't (JADE) justify, argue, defend, or explain.  Understanding this has been super helpful for me in managing my relationship with my mom.

With that in mind:

1. Placating to buy some more time by hubby replying"no problems, just busy, a lot on! Take care"

This could work.  If they love bomb you, you could use the broken record technique.  You could also say "no problems, just busy, a lot on!  Sending warmth!  Stay well and take care!"  

2. Being honest but boundaried:
"There isn't a problem but as you've said, the relationship isn't the same. Responses reflect that. kiwigal is moving into full-time study, so is needing to focus and I support her. In this busy season, we are needing to take things easy"

In my experience, I think this could escalate things, because you've said "the relationship isn't the same".  It engages previous conflict.  Consider keeping it simple: "there isn't a problem.  Kiwigal is moving into full-time study, and I am supporting her goals..."  But, looking at this response, I see "explaining" again, (with full time study and you supporting) so personally option #1 is the most neutral and stays away from JADEing.

 

I think honest, but boundaried has worked best for me recently, but we also need to remind ourselves that they may respond in a dysregulated way no matter what we say and agonizing over saying the perfect thing doesn't help the situation because it's not really in our control.

This by mtnlvr8 spoke to me.  I think the trick is to keep it short and simple.  As someone else on this board likes to say (can't remember who): "give them a small target".

3. Don't respond.
Pro's: moves us out of any explanations
Con's: She will become very dysregulated and we are likely to face eventually dealing with the MIL (BPD + enabler).

Now to decide what way?

When you say "likely to face eventually dealing with the MIL", what is your H's relationship with his mom?

On a different note, so glad the Tsunami never materialized into anything big.  H and I and two adult children holidayed in your part of the world 2 1/2 yrs ago - best holiday ever.  We all fell in love with your country kiwigal. 

[kiwigal]

An update...
hubby ended up sending a letter that was his truth. It said that we had agreed to move forward and weren't holding animosity. That we don't have a close relationship, that I'm not the problem. That they talk about me in ways that are inconsiderate. And asked them to drop it.

It was the closest I have ever heard hubby get to saying his truth - and of course, it was met with "we disagree with the statements but being that you want to leave things unresolved, we will move on".

Infuriating, to say the least.. the gaslighting does my head in. But like you all said... you don't expect a considerate response from a Narc. Unfortunately, she is being enabled by MIL and her hubby and the other SIL. I think we will likely need support as we navigate putting some very clear boundaries in place, going forward.