Refusal To Accept Help

[Depression = 72% of members]

Has anyone else experienced an issue with a BPD, where they admittedly have difficulty accepting help from others for any reason? It doesn't just have to be to seek therapy.

A recent example since our separation a few weeks ago, our babysitter's husband contracted Covid-19. Therefore, she had to quarantine and we lost our help with childcare. This was shortly after I moved out. When I learned this, I said, "I know you are stretched thin, right now, please let me know if you need me to take on any child care."

At first she responded, incredulously, "Stretched thin?"  (Note, we wouldn't want to admit that we don't have complete control of everything)

I responded, "Because the baby sitter is out."

She then understood, and said, something along the lines of, "Just coming instead of asking me if I want something like you did on Saturday is good enough." However, That's just not realistic, because A), I'm not a mind reader; and B) there's no way for me to know her demanding work schedule. We both have demanding jobs and have been successful in our careers. This may or may not be unusual for BPD's. (I suspect I am BPD as well or at least have traits of it.)

The next day, I decide to reiterate my willingness to pick up the slack, even though we are separating. I definitely want to do my part. for raising our new baby. The following is a transcription of the exact text thread with names redacted:

Me: Again, I know it's difficult without the baby sitter, and if you can think of something I can do that would make it easier let me know. Some suggestions include I can leave work early (but not tomorrow, next week is pretty clear right now) so you can focus on your job better, or pick up food etc.

Her: I didn't want to say this last night because I don't want you to take it the wrong way, but just focusing on the time you spend with the baby is good.  I cleaned the same spoon twice, and I know it doesn't sound like a lot, but I also cleaned up the pouch and wiped down the high chair tray before putting him it this morning and there was a mushed blueberry on the floor and the diaper on top of the diaper garbage. They all take but a moment each but when I'm trying to get myself and him ready for the day start work at the same time, then the devil is in the details. This is related to the comments I've made about feeling like the default parent/traffic director. I think you should spend an overnight with him. And I think you should do it here in case you need any assistance. I'll stay downstairs and out of your guys hair, but I think that would be another way for you to get acclimated to taking on a caregiver role. I know you've gotten up in the night with him before, and have seen me doit, but it's a different animal when it's just you on the clock the whole time. It doesn't have to be this weekend but it's something to think about.

(side note, the baby is teething and is very fussy lately. She's trying to seek full custody, so I'm doing everything I can to keep him calm so she doesn't say I'm a bad parent, again. I'm also in the process of packing up my stuff and trying to minimize any contact with her, to avoid any further conflict.)

Me: O.K. sounds like a good idea sorry about the blueberry, I didn't notice it

Her: Thanks, luckily Good Friday is a Holiday for me

She then sent a video of our son with the cat and I responded with some niceties.

Fast forward a couple of hours:

Her: I'm nervous for my 2 p.m. call. I have a whole setup rigged with his camera and jumper and a sit station, but it's going to be hard for me to do anything if he starts fussing because I'm leading the meeting I'm going to start him in his jumper which I know he can do for 30 minutes and speak quickly. And then maybe there will be some discussion. I can mute my phone for if he needs help.

Me: I can see if it's OK if I leave at 2 for an hour and a half to watch him?

Her: My call is at 2. It is what it is

Me: I could leave before 2, also. (side note: It was a little after 1 pm at this time so this was pretty last minute. I'm bending over backwards to help here, and it could have all been planned last night, when I initially offered. She knew she had the meeting already.)

Her: I mean listen, I'm not going to tell you to disrupt your day. If you happen to be here to watch him that's lovely and unexpected. If not it'll make it work as planned.

Me: Get him jumping at 2, I will arrive about 10 after to keep an eye on him. I just cleared it with my boss.

Her: I'm sorry that you have to do this. (What? An apology? However, note there really is no apology needed because she didn't really do anything inappropriate, aside from not bother to accept the help I offered the night before.)

Me: No problem


Soo, this is a pretty typical scenario in my situation. I offer help. It is refused and instead I receive some sort of criticism. Then later the offer is reluctantly accepted without actually asking for help. I am forced to read between the lines, that help is really needed. If I don't simply provide the unstated help request, I run the risk of being considered a terrible person, manipulative and emotionally abusive.

I'm not sure if this a symptom of BPD or something else. She had a really terrible upbringing with an alcoholic mother who constantly ran off on her, and left her with her grandmother, as caretaker. So there are multiple potential causes. However, she really has difficulty accepting any offer for help no matter how small. This often ends up with me feeling rejected, and hurt.

Does anyone else experience scenarios like this with a BPD in relation to acceptance of help?

[EZEarache]

Has anyone else experienced an issue with a BPD, where they admittedly have difficulty accepting help from others for any reason? It doesn't just have to be to seek therapy.

A recent example since our separation a few weeks ago, our babysitter's husband contracted Covid-19. Therefore, she had to quarantine and we lost our help with childcare. This was shortly after I moved out. When I learned this, I said, "I know you are stretched thin, right now, please let me know if you need me to take on any child care."

At first she responded, incredulously, "Stretched thin?"  (Note, we wouldn't want to admit that we don't have complete control of everything)

I responded, "Because the baby sitter is out."

She then understood, and said, something along the lines of, "Just coming instead of asking me if I want something like you did on Saturday is good enough." However, That's just not realistic, because A), I'm not a mind reader; and B) there's no way for me to know her demanding work schedule. We both have demanding jobs and have been successful in our careers. This may or may not be unusual for BPD's. (I suspect I am BPD as well or at least have traits of it.)

The next day, I decide to reiterate my willingness to pick up the slack, even though we are separating. I definitely want to do my part. for raising our new baby. The following is a transcription of the exact text thread with names redacted:

Me: Again, I know it's difficult without the baby sitter, and if you can think of something I can do that would make it easier let me know. Some suggestions include I can leave work early (but not tomorrow, next week is pretty clear right now) so you can focus on your job better, or pick up food etc.

Her: I didn't want to say this last night because I don't want you to take it the wrong way, but just focusing on the time you spend with the baby is good.  I cleaned the same spoon twice, and I know it doesn't sound like a lot, but I also cleaned up the pouch and wiped down the high chair tray before putting him it this morning and there was a mushed blueberry on the floor and the diaper on top of the diaper garbage. They all take but a moment each but when I'm trying to get myself and him ready for the day start work at the same time, then the devil is in the details. This is related to the comments I've made about feeling like the default parent/traffic director. I think you should spend an overnight with him. And I think you should do it here in case you need any assistance. I'll stay downstairs and out of your guys hair, but I think that would be another way for you to get acclimated to taking on a caregiver role. I know you've gotten up in the night with him before, and have seen me doit, but it's a different animal when it's just you on the clock the whole time. It doesn't have to be this weekend but it's something to think about.

(side note, the baby is teething and is very fussy lately. She's trying to seek full custody, so I'm doing everything I can to keep him calm so she doesn't say I'm a bad parent, again. I'm also in the process of packing up my stuff and trying to minimize any contact with her, to avoid any further conflict.)

Me: O.K. sounds like a good idea sorry about the blueberry, I didn't notice it

Her: Thanks, luckily Good Friday is a Holiday for me

She then sent a video of our son with the cat and I responded with some niceties.

Fast forward a couple of hours:

Her: I'm nervous for my 2 p.m. call. I have a whole setup rigged with his camera and jumper and a sit station, but it's going to be hard for me to do anything if he starts fussing because I'm leading the meeting I'm going to start him in his jumper which I know he can do for 30 minutes and speak quickly. And then maybe there will be some discussion. I can mute my phone for if he needs help.

Me: I can see if it's OK if I leave at 2 for an hour and a half to watch him?

Her: My call is at 2. It is what it is

Me: I could leave before 2, also. (side note: It was a little after 1 pm at this time so this was pretty last minute. I'm bending over backwards to help here, and it could have all been planned last night, when I initially offered. She knew she had the meeting already.)

Her: I mean listen, I'm not going to tell you to disrupt your day. If you happen to be here to watch him that's lovely and unexpected. If not it'll make it work as planned.

Me: Get him jumping at 2, I will arrive about 10 after to keep an eye on him. I just cleared it with my boss.

Her: I'm sorry that you have to do this. (What? An apology? However, note there really is no apology needed because she didn't really do anything inappropriate, aside from not bother to accept the help I offered the night before.)

Me: No problem


Soo, this is a pretty typical scenario in my situation. I offer help. It is refused and instead I receive some sort of criticism. Then later the offer is reluctantly accepted without actually asking for help. I am forced to read between the lines, that help is really needed. If I don't simply provide the unstated help request, I run the risk of being considered a terrible person, manipulative and emotionally abusive.

I'm not sure if this a symptom of BPD or something else. She had a really terrible upbringing with an alcoholic mother who constantly ran off on her, and left her with her grandmother, as caretaker. So there are multiple potential causes. However, she really has difficulty accepting any offer for help no matter how small. This often ends up with me feeling rejected, and hurt.

Does anyone else experience scenarios like this with a BPD in relation to acceptance of help?

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Naughty Nibbler]

Hi EZEarache:

Just one opinion after reading the dialog:
1.  She may be a bit OCD
2.  She is a perfectionist
3.  She is controlling
4.  She likely doesn't want to lose control over things, because then there won't be a perfect outcome.  
5.  She hypercritical, as no one can meet her perfectionist standards  (only she can).
6.  She flip flops about her need for help, because she wants it to be perfect, and no one can do that (that includes you), and/or she believe that asking for help is a sign of weakness.
7.  It common for those with BPD, to be narcissistic to some degree.

I suspect I am BPD as well or at least have traits of it  

How many of the 9 BPD traits do you think you have?

How many does your wife have?

You can find the 9 traits of BPD at this link:
https://bpdfamily.com/content/borderline-personality-disorder

It's common for people to have a couple of BPD traits, at least periodically and during stressful situations.  These traits are not unique to BPD.  Most people with BPD, or strong BPD traits, have other mental health issues: i.e. anxiety and depression are common and some people have a long list of mental issues.

Whether your wife has BPD or not, would have to be determined by a professional, after an in-person evaluation with her.  Her issues can stem from genetic, environment or a combination of both.  Often alcoholics are using alcohol to cope with some mental health issue. Your wife probably lacked emotionally mature role models, so she was raised to be emotionally immature.  Until she is able to recognize that she has issues to work on, the only thing you can manage is yourself and how you interact and react.

I suspect your aim to please her, in any way you can, works to your disadvantage. Have you discussed your example dialog with your therapist?  Might want to get your therapist's opinion.  I'm guessing she is used to you bending so much, that it will take some effort to turn it around.  You need to start setting some boundaries.  Make an offer to help & give her a deadline for a final decision.

If you suspect she want's to get sole custody of your child, then best to prepare for the worst and hope for the best.  Keep documentation of conversations (i.e. texts & emails). Best to start doing that now and keep backing up that data (before you lose it).  If she makes false accusations, you will have documentation to disprove it.

[EZEarache]

Thanks for the information.

Yes, she's definitely a self admitted perfectionist, and she's equally hard on herself when something goes wrong. I' not sure about OCD, but I haven't really studied this disorder too much. I don't really think she's narcistic. I've spent four years getting a very public understanding of that disorder, recently, LOL.

I have 4.5 of the 9 traits:

• Fear of rejection (From severe bullying in adolescence resulted in me having high functionin Body Dysmorphia Disorder and severe Depression which required hospitalization in my mid 20s)
  Unstable personal relationships (My previous relationship and this one, both were adult children of Alcoholics. I had a therapist that convinced be to be open to the current relationship, despite by better judgement I listened. However, I do have enduring close friendships of 25+ years and a large social circle. I am very proud of the large social circle, actually, because this took a lot for me to overcome.)
  Unclear or shifting self image (Especially when I am single, I also feel like no matter how well I do, I could have done better. I definitely fall into the perfectionist, category as well.)
  Explosive Anger (This relationship and my previous relationship brought it out of me, but my friends don't see it much. I can keep it under control in public)
  Feelings of Emptiness (This is the .5 I'm just not sure. I could feel extremely lonely and worthless at times when I was single. This usually occurred after I was rejected by a potential romantic partner. I spent 7 years single, before meeting my current partner. The extreme lows of rejection, ghosting, etc were largely what kept me from attempting to court other women. But empty, I'm not sure. During this time I was also struggling with my career, and I felt like I needed to try and focus on improving that before I brought anyone else in my life. Things were very fluid. So, I'm really not sure if Feelings of Emptiness is me or not. That's the big question for me in this attempt at self-diagnosis.

However, as you stated, it might just be stress for both of us. It has been a really stressful year even without a pandemic. The following all occurred for my part in 2020:

• Work stress. I was launching a new software platform at work work that did not go smoothly at all. We did manage to just barely pull it off by the end of the year, but it was looking like total failure for a good part of the year. I don't deal well with failure, LOL)
  Planned Pregnancy (but with major reservations on my part)
  Two months in the NICU after premature birth
  A Hurricane that knocked power out for one week about two weeks after the baby came home
  An appendectomy, and longer than expected recovery
  The pandemic and trying to be new parents in the pandemic with no social or family support
  The list goes on and on...

Yes, I continue to bend to her wishes, but I think from her perspective, she has bent to mine, as well. I'd have to objectively agree with her on that.

So I think boundaries are in order, but I'm not sure what they are or should be. I think I have difficulty setting boundaries, everywhere in my life. 

I am by no means perfect in all of this. I have and continue to make a lot of mistakes. I'm just doing the best I can with the cards that I'm dealt.

Ultimately, I hope we can patch things, up in the long run. To do that I am working on myself. I can only control my own actions. Hopefully she eventually sees that some of her actions caused my reactions, regardless of how extreme and inappropriate my reactions ended up being. I'd say if I was working on one thing right now, it would be my own reactions. In doing so, I'm trying to prevent amygdala hijack, and understand things from her perspective, before I react to accomplish this currently.

[Naughty Nibbler]

Hi again EZEarache:
I think you are being too hard on yourself.  For a BPD diagnosis, you need to have active/significant current issues with the various traits (not that you had them years ago & got better).  You might want to go through the list with your therapist & get their professional opinion.   I made a few comments within your quotes below.

I have 4.5 of the 9 traits:

Fear of rejection (From severe bullying in adolescence resulted in me having high functioning Body Dysmorphia Disorder and severe Depression which required hospitalization in my mid 20s)
Sounds like you worked through this difficult time, for the most part.  You don't indicate a current major issue right now.  You can have a reoccurrence of depression and not have BPD.

Unstable personal relationships (My previous relationship and this one, both were adult children of Alcoholics. I had a therapist that convinced be to be open to the current relationship, despite by better judgement I listened. However, I do have enduring close friendships of 25+ years and a large social circle. I am very proud of the large social circle, actually, because this took a lot for me to overcome.)
Again, it needs to be an active situation.  Sounds like you have a healthy circle of friends.  Perhaps, your romantic relationships have been more difficult for you and still need some work, but I don't think that your current issues qualify as an active BPD trait.

Unclear or shifting self image (Especially when I am single, I also feel like no matter how well I do, I could have done better. I definitely fall into the perfectionist, category as well.) Sounds like you have a critical inner voice.  That's something to work on & discuss in therapy.  I doubt that what you describe is a BPD issue. Sounds like you are gainfully employed.

People who have been criticized a lot, perhaps during childhood, get a script in their head about needing to be perfect.  Computer code probably requires perfection, but with some things, you just need to do the best you can within the time provided.  Nothing wrong with striving to do better, but never being satisfied is a problem.  Hopefully you & your wife won't expect your child to be perfect.  Having both parents be perfectionists can be tough for a child.

Explosive Anger (This relationship and my previous relationship brought it out of me, but my friends don't see it much. I can keep it under control in public)
This is an area that you need to work on & find healthy ways to process your anger.  Quite often, people hold back on their anger with coworkers and friends.  They are able to contain it until they get somewhere where they feel comfortable.  That is generally with family.

Feelings of Emptiness (This is the .5 I'm just not sure. I could feel extremely lonely and worthless at times when I was single. This usually occurred after I was rejected by a potential romantic partner. I spent 7 years single, before meeting my current partner. The extreme lows of rejection, ghosting, etc were largely what kept me from attempting to court other women. But empty, I'm not sure. During this time I was also struggling with my career, and I felt like I needed to try and focus on improving that before I brought anyone else in my life. Things were very fluid. So, I'm really not sure if Feelings of Emptiness is me or not. That's the big question for me in this attempt at self-diagnosis.
I think a lot of people have difficulty with "the dating game".  Emptiness can go along with bouts of depression.  Many people think that they need to be in a relationship to be happy.  Reality is that no one can make you happy.  You have to find it within yourself.  Being alone, doesn't mean that you have to be lonely.  Some people in bad relationships feel very alone, even though they are with someone.

However, as you stated, it might just be stress for both of us. It has been a really stressful year even without a pandemic. The following all occurred for my part in 2020:

Work stress. I was launching a new software platform at work work that did not go smoothly at all. We did manage to just barely pull it off by the end of the year, but it was looking like total failure for a good part of the year. I don't deal well with failure, LOL)
Planned Pregnancy (but with major reservations on my part)
Two months in the NICU after premature birth
A Hurricane that knocked power out for one week about two weeks after the baby came home
An appendectomy, and longer than expected recovery
The pandemic and trying to be new parents in the pandemic with no social or family support
The list goes on and on...

That's a lot of stress!  It would even challenge most people in good relationships.

So I think boundaries are in order, but I'm not sure what they are or should be. I think I have difficulty setting boundaries, everywhere in my life.

I suspect that most of us didn't grow up in families with good emotional intelligence.  Many of us never got a clear understanding of boundaries.  What we understood were instructions from our parents of what not to do or perhaps curfews  we had to keep.

The two links below lead to some helpful info. about boundaries (Personal ones that you set and are responsible for enforcing).
https://bpdfamily.com/content/setting-boundaries
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=61684.0

You can find additional info. on boundaries.  If you do an internet search, you will find various articles.  Also, you could pick up a book from Amazon or elsewhere.  So, do some reading. Think about some boundaries you might want to set.  Discuss it with your therapist.

There is a lot of good information on the website about communication skills and strategy to help enhance your emotional intelligence and ability to improve your relationship with your partner. It will take time, but if both of work on things, it can get a lot better.  Even if just one person in a relationship works on theirself, it can make a big difference.

[EZEarache]

Thanks for the votes of confidence. My therapist agrees that I just have BPD traits, but he doesn't think I'm full blown BPD. I'm still planning to study all of this because I suspect that my GF may be borderline.

At this time it seems like all of the self-improvement will fall onto my shoulders. Realistically, being separated, and my GF being pretty much in full custody, I can't expect her to shoulder any of the responsibility for self-improvement at this time. Raising an infant is tough on its own. So yes, I will be the one who is responsible for self improvement, and hopefully that can make us a 75% successful couple. For me our beautiful, perfect little boy is worth the effort and-self improvement is never a bad thing.

Boundaries for me will be that she needs to stop bringing up issues from the past and waving them back at me repeatedly, anytime we have a disagreement. I need to set boundaries for myself that I don't become reactionary when people disagree with me.

[Naughty Nibbler]

  So yes, I will be the one who is responsible for self improvement, and hopefully that can make us a 75% successful couple. For me our beautiful, perfect little boy is worth the effort and-self improvement is never a bad thing.   

So, keep reminding yourself before reacting, that you want to be the best you can for your son & that you want to be a good role model.  Children tend to follow the examples that parents give them.

Boundaries for me will be that she needs to stop bringing up issues from the past and waving them back at me repeatedly, anytime we have a disagreement. I need to set boundaries for myself that I don't become reactionary when people disagree with me.   

So, sounds like you have 2 areas to work on in therapy.  It can be a good idea to go to therapy with your own agenda for sessions.  Ask your therapist for some ways to manage anger.  You can, also, do your own research on ways to manage anger and bring that info. to a session (s) to discuss. 

Do a few practice runs about boundaries and putting a halt to your girlfriend bringing up the past, during arguments.  You could run through this with your therapist. 

A couple of formulas for making helpful statement:

SET:  (Support, Empathy & Truth) i.e. I want to support you with child care in any way I can.  I know it's been hard on you, since we lost the babysitter.  I have to do the best I can to balance my work requirement and time availability.

"I-STATEMENT": I feel _________ When ________, Because ________.  What I want is _________.
i.e. I feel angry when the past is brought up, when a current problem is discussed. It isn't helpful and things escalate.  I want us to focus on the immediate issue and discuss it calmly.

Sometimes, when tempers flair and your GF starts going through the laundry list of everything you have done wrong in the past, you need to say something like "I refuse to discuss the past.  I want to focus on this current issue. We need to defer this discussion until we can both discuss this calmly.  Let's try again tomorrow (after work, etc. whatever works for both of you).

[EZEarache]

Thanks Naughty Nibbler,

I just got to the SET UP chapter in I hate you don't leave, so this is good reinforcement for me. I'm looking forward to reading The High Conflict Couple next.

This is all so difficult because I have my own feelings and issues to contend with regarding this breakup. I'm trying to be strong and do the right thing, but it isn't easy.

For example, yesterday I ran into my exGF's Best Friend (BF) at the farmers market. She approached me, and it wasn't really anything I had prepared myself for. Conversation went as follows:

BF: Hi EZ nice to see you.

ME: Oh hi BF.

BF: I just came to get some pickles

Me: Oh there's pickles where are those?

BF: Oh there's a whole area inside.

Me: Oh I should go get those, they used to be good. Did you hear about me and GF

BF: Yes, I think it's for the best. (This hurt me a whole lot, because I don't think breaking up the family is for the best. I would like us to try and work through our issues.)

Me: This is not for the best. in my opinion, this is a total disaster.

BF: Well, Baby is getting so big. I've seen all the photos on Facebook.

Me: I'm not exactly happy about that, either. Then I walked away.

Granted, I should have handled this situation better. However, I was completely caught off guard when she approached me. I didn't really feel like making small talk about pickles, or whatever. That just isn't really what is on my mind right now.

However, my issue with the photos on Facebook, is long and engrained. Before the baby was even born we discussed not posting photos of him on Facebook. I've read that it's not fair to the child to give them a social media identity before they are old enough to make these decisions about what to post themselves. Of course, there's a gray area because we've been in the pandemic and friends and family want to see the baby, and Facebook is the safest way for this. So I compromised and said occasional photos are O.K.

Well a week after we broke up there are photos of the baby with exGF at a local farm. This broke my heart, I would have liked to been there to show the baby his first farm animals. Then my family starts telling me about other photos they are seeing. It even caused, my second cousin to reach out to her, which of course caused more drama. I decided as soon as I saw the fuzzy farm animals to just take a break from Facebook entirely.

I actually decided this a long time, because of all the nasty politics and drama. Plus, I have a demanding job, and I was paying attention to social media when I should have been paying attention to conference calls. Facebook, keeps sucking me back in once in a while. However, I've been pretty good about not using it at all. Preventing myself from logging into Facebook seemed like the healthiest approach for me. This way exGF can get her social media dopamine fixes, and I don't have to feel bad about seeing my family out having fun without me. Then, I could eliminate conflict, by not needing to ask her not to post photos. That conversation ran the high risk of me being perceived as controlling, etc. The truth is she can post what she wants, and I don't need to look at it. It only becomes a problem when BF starts talking to me about it.

So this inevitably turned into a text thread between me and exGF. Like I said, I should have handled it better, but I was caught completely off guard and was trying to enjoy my Sunday as best I could.

exGF:
If you have a problem with me posting 1-2 photos of Baby on social media per month why don't you tell me? You just told me yesterday you weren't talking to people about us and BF literally just texted me saying the first thing out of your moth when you ran into her and that you were speaking in a rude tone.

1 post in April 2 in March 1 in February, 2 in January is that so excessive that you feel the need to bring it up to my friends out and about behind my back?

The few times I've brought it up you've indicated that it's OK  and not excessive

Me:
That wasn't the first thing out of my mouth. I asked Kim if she heard the news, she said yes. She said it's for the best. I said it's not for the best it's a total disaster. Then she said Baby's getting so big. She's been posting photos on Facebook. I replied I'm not too happy about that either. Which, I'm not, but it isn't worth a fight over.

ExGF:
If it's not worth a fight over, then it's not worth talking to mutual friends over, I'd think

Just talk to me EZ. Like about social media. Ordering the car seat. Planning a visit with your parents. Whatever. It's annoying to hear your thoughts on things of mutual interest either second hand or only if I specicially ask. And then we can have a conversation about them.

As far as what came out of your moth first, I guess I was wrong. I guess it was something along the lines of "Did you hear the news about me and GF." or something to that effect. I wasn't there, but I know that BF said she left the interaction feeling like next time she sees you out, she just won't say anything. She was just trying to be nice and friendly, not to have a discussion about our personal matters.

Me:
That would probably be a good idea.

ExGF:
I interpret that to mean that the main takeaway for you rom what I wrote was to sever friendship over practice effective communication.

Me:
Both me not talking to BF about our situation and my talking to you about my opinions on things.

I haven't even logged into Facebook since your photos of him at the farm. It's too painful for me. She brought it up, and I gave my honest opinion about it. It wasn't something I particularly wanted to discuss with you or anyone else.

You have a right to post anything you want.  Who am I to say otherwise
But when people start talking about it, it's definitely going to strike a nerve.

So I definitely should have handled this better. But hearing from BF that she thinks it's for the best was very painful for me to listen to. My life is complete shambles. It was seriously the best days of my life when I met GF. Everything in my world had come together, career, social circle, activities. I really felt like I was on top of the world. I just was having problems with my BDD and I even had finally identified my issue there and was overcoming it. Today, my life is in total shambles. I have a son that I can only see on a limited basis. I'm nervous that at any moment I can mess up and it will start a custody battle. The family that I agreed to, is falling apart. If I was in the best days of my life 3 years ago, today I really can't think of a point in my life that was any lower. So, no, I don't think "it's for the best."

Please note, that in exGF's thread, even though, she is correct that I should have handled my interaction with BF better, she is continuing to point out past mistakes. And one of those things isn't even anything that I did wrong. My parents (who exGF hates) were coming to visit. I was waiting for the right time to try and tell her to prevent a fight. She asked two days after I found out the exact date, and I told her. This lead exGF to think I was hiding things from her. However, from my perspective, I told her when she asked, and I would have told her on my own when I felt the mood was correct to do so and not result in conflict. I ordered a car seat on my own, because I felt it would be easier, than trying to track down a missing part for a return on the infant car seat that would have been 20% off. There was limited time on the deal. So I just went ahead and ordered the car seat thinking, "It's my extra cost anyway." She viewed it as her being stuck with an infant car seat that she didn't know how to get rid of.

I just feel like I'm really bad at communicating, now. I don't think I used to be, but I never know the right way to bring up any subject matter. I feel like no matter what I do it runs the risk of being a huge fight. If I'd asked her not to post on Facebook, I would have been controlling. It seemed best just to let her do what she wanted and for me not to log in. It didn't occur to me that I was going to get blind sided by it.

I just wish I was better at all of this, but I will definitely try to practice using Support, Empathy and Truth in tonight's therapy session.

Hopefully, I can wrangle up the courage to tell her that I booked a vacation this July with friends that I will be away for two weeks on, during tonight's call. When I booked it, it didn't dawn on me that even though we were separated I should ask her first. I'm completely kicking myself in the butt for this right now. I'm worried, though, that the session will turn into I never talk to her about things. But the truth is, at this point, I'm just scared to talk about anything that could lead to conflict.

[Naughty Nibbler]

Hey EZEarache:  

So I definitely should have handled this better. But hearing from BF that she thinks it's for the best was very painful for me to listen to.        

 It can be best to be a bit reserved with what you share.   Reality is that people tend to put their own spin/interpretation on things and her best friend is more apt than most to run to her quickly and make a report.

It might be hard to resist a listening ear, but be cautious.  Best to only be friendly, but brief, and resist the urge to share anything personal. Stick to generic pleasantries. Wait for safe places/safe people to share.  

Well a week after we broke up there are photos of the baby with exGF at a local farm. This broke my heart, I would have liked to been there to show the baby his first farm animals

Perhaps you might not be the first to take your son to visit farm animals (or zoo animals), but it's likely that he won't be able to remember the visit for vary long. I recently listened to a conversation about someone's recent visit to the zoo, with his grammer school children.  The children had visited the zoo approx. 6 prior times, but they couldn't remember the prior visits and it was as if they were seeing things for the first time.  So, don't get too caught up on being with your son for the first this or that.  Until you son gets to a certain age, every visit is likely to be experienced as a first visit.  Every experience has the potential to be the best visit ever.

 I'm looking forward to reading The High Conflict Couple next.

One thing that you will likely learn in that book is the
BIFF strategy:  Be Brief, Informative, Friendly & Firm. The author has a separate book, just on the BIFF strategy.

I just wish I was better at all of this, but I will definitely try to practice using Support, Empathy and Truth in tonight's therapy session.        

 It takes practice, so hang in there.  Sometimes, when you don't know want to say, just remember to NOT Invalidate her feelings (by word, expression or body language or tone of voice). Sometimes silence is golden.

My parents (who exGF hates) were coming to visit. I was waiting for the right time to try and tell her to prevent a fight. . .So I just went ahead and ordered the car seat thinking, "It's my extra cost anyway." She viewed it as her being stuck with an infant car seat that she didn't know how to get rid of.  

Do you have a theory on why your GF hates your parents?  Perhaps you should just offer her the new car seat & have her give you the old one to take care of.  You can then dispose of it, so she doesn't have to fuss about it.

You need to pick your battles. If your GF shares a few photos of your son on FB, you need to learn to live with it. It's a losing battle, so save your energy for more significant issues like time spent with your son. I know the photo sharing is an issue for you, but you are more apt to fair better with more important issues, if you let go of some things.

An alternative might be to establish an account with a photo storage website & perhaps have a few albums of photos that you offer certain people the opportunity & link to view (as opposed to FB). When your son get's old enough, your biggest problem will be to convince your son of the pitfalls of sharing things on the Internet & how to be as anonymous as possible. A few baby photos won't likely cause problems down the road.

[Notwendy]

I understand it is difficult to not react when you are feeling so low, but I hope this analysis of the conversation with the BF helps.

Note that this is a potential triangulation. The BF is your ex's best friend. You can assume that she's going to share anything said with the ex. Also note the roles on the Karpaman triangle. You are feeling poorly and taking victim perspective. The BF is going to side with her friend, not you- there's nothing wrong with this- it's natural as she's closer to her friend ( your ex)

You were not prepared for this and neither was she, so she's trying to make small talk to avoid getting into anything uncomfortable with you.

BF: Hi EZ nice to see you.

ME: Oh hi BF.

BF: I just came to get some pickles ( you might not be in the mood to discuss pickles, but the BF is keeping things neutral and avoiding the touchy issues. Pickles are a pretty safe bet)

Me: Oh there's pickles where are those?

BF: Oh there's a whole area inside.

Me: Oh I should go get those, they used to be good.Did you hear about me and GF

You were both handling it well- then you brought up the emotional topic.

BF: Yes, I think it's for the best. ( this may not be the response you wanted to hear, but it might be all she could think of in response to you bringing up a topic she was trying to avoid- it may have caught her off guard. She could have asked you about it, but instead chose to talk about pickles)

(This hurt me a whole lot, because I don't think breaking up the family is for the best. I would like us to try and work through our issues.). This is where the conversation derailed- as you  were in hurt ( victim mode) and started to defend yourself.

Me: This is not for the best. in my opinion, this is a total disaster.

BF: Well, Baby is getting so big. I've seen all the photos on Facebook.  (BF changed the subject to avoid discussing this topic with you. She didn't want to get into this with you)

Me: I'm not exactly happy about that, either. Then I walked away. ( you are still in hurt mode)


If you knew the BF would relay what you said to your ex, then I think you can see why your ex would react that if you have something to say- say it directly. This type of "indirect" conversation doesn't just happen in families with BPD. It's a communication style that people might not be aware of.

Don't be hard on yourself. I think pw BPD and their partners both share similar traits in some way- poor boundaries, low self image, some co-dependency, fears of abandonment. This doesn't mean they both have BPD. There can be overlapping traits in many situations.

But you are correct that we can only change ourselves and working on our own reactivity can help avoid these circular type and "kitchen sink" ( bringing up other emotional issues into conversations) type discussions. In this case, you were being reactive. Don't be hard on yourself as you are hurting right now. Knowing this, you might not want to engage in conversations about the issue that is so difficult for you right now, unless it's with a therapist or person who is supportive to you.

[EZEarache]

Thanks, I absolutely agree with what you're saying.

I think I did a good job in couples therapy with this situation last night, or at least I did the best I could in a lose/lose situation.

The following wasn't really my direct intention for the session. I was hoping to use Support, Empathy, and Truth. However, in retrospect I did inadvertently follow another suggested strategy of giving the BPD a choice.

I told her again, that I wasn't going to tell her that she should or should not post on Facebook. I told her that she had a choice in the matter. This eliminated the potential for her perceiving me as controlling, emotionally abusive or manipulative. That's usually what happens in these situations, where I ask her to stop doing something that bothers me.

I verbally reiterated that I was making the choice not to log into Facebook at all, because it was too painful for me to see photos of the baby doing fun activities. This was consequence 1 of posting photo on Facebook.

There was another situation recently where one of my family members saw photos of our baby and felt compelled to reach out to exGF to offer support during this separation. This was received poorly, and validated her concerns that my mother was out of control and might intend to take the baby away from her. So I also pointed out consequence 2 that posting photos on Facebook also caused my family members to unwantedly reach out to her.

Then there is consequence 3 which caused me to have a painful conversation about Facebook photos with her best friend that clearly did not go smoothly.

She was angered by being given the choice, saying, "This puts the onus on me as decision maker, again."  At the time she said this, it made me feel bad like I was doing something wrong, by telling her she had a choice.  However, in retrospect, we all have a choice for our actions. I shouldn't feel bad about giving her one. If she can see the three negative consequences that her action has caused in the past, then I hope she makes an appropriate choice.

So even though the interaction left me feeling on the spot and a little negative about myself, it wasn't as bad as it would have been if I'd simply told her not to do it. She can do what she wants, and then needs to take responsibility for her actions. As a result I'm not a controlling, emotionally abusive, asshole. It hurts me a lot when she tells me that, because I really try not to be these things.

I plan to send the best friend an apology tonight after work. I plan not to defend my actions as reactionary to what the best friend said, but simply explain that I'm sorry if I came off rude. This breakup is very difficult for me and hopefully she can understand that my statements were not directed at her.