Friendship with BPD exes

[igneous]

Hi there,

I'm new here, and have never posted on a message board in my life so bear with me. I have an ex that has not been officially diagnosed with bpd (that I know of) but his pattern of behavior and sx fit to a T and have been noticed by myself and others including professionals. Reading some of this website has been incredibly helpful for me to feel mirrored and affirmed in my experience of our relationship, which was so incredibly tumultuous, intoxicating, and devastating. Sounds familiar right?

I guess it makes sense to tell a little bit of my story. Our relationship in total was around 4 or 5 years long, but with, let's see.. 3 cycles of breaking up and getting back together? With us breaking up for good in the summer of 2019. Looking at this message board, I notice it mostly follows the gender lines that BPD is usually diagnosed along- meaning that a lot of posters are male, talking about their female exes with BPD. I am very aware that BPD is incredibly under diagnosed in men, and can show up differently (ie more isolation, avoidant characteristics, etc). So for one thing, I would love to connect with other females/femmes who have had male partners with BPD.

Part of our relationship structure has been this person's continual attachment to me bordering on obsession. This has gone both ways, but its impacts on us have been different. I have always wanted a consistent long-term relationship, and he was always so inwardly tortured, ambivalent, fearfully attached, suicidal, had extreme issues with emotional regulation, severe jealously although he would NEVER admit to it, etc etc that we could never get there. This last time I finally was the one to end it for good, mostly because of his inability to end it but also an inability to meet me in relationship. It was a holding pattern that was dampening my life and that, try as I PLEASE READing might, I could not 'fix' (cue my own childhood trauma).

We haven't seen each other since August 2019, and have only talked 3 times since then. We share a lot of community and friendships- he lives in the state that I used to live in for five years, and I have friends that are my family there including my godchild that I visit at least once a year. We just spoke on the phone for the first time since June of 2020 and, like in 2020, it went surprisingly well. It is very easy for us to connect, catch up, show care, and his mental health seems to be doing much better. I have done a ton of work around knowing that that doesn't mean we should get back together, that the fact that he loves me doesn't mean he is going to do anything about it that is worth me opening up to that again, that he fires every therapist he ever has, etc. The intoxicating highs and intense connection and love I can feel with him are not worth the accompanying lows, pain, and confusion. I'm too PLEASE READing old to keep repeating the pattern and I've done so much of my own healing around this to move on.

However, I haven't fallen in love with anyone since we broke up. As we all know, having a new attachment and intimacy filling that space and human need is really helpful when trying to relate to a complicated and ultimately unhealthy ex. This is a person that I would really like to have in my life- I love him a lot and he loves me, and I know we would both like to be friends someday. I am going to where he lives in a month to visit my friends, and it's possible he will be around. We talked about maybe seeing each other.

I would like to do this and also feel nervous. I think it could at least be some information for me even if it feels like torture. I have very clear boundaries around how I am allowed to engage with this human ever again because of our cycles and history and the real love and magnetism between us. I would also love for the charge between us to lessen. I would love to have a small amount of exposure therapy, work.

So I guess I'm looking for people's experience with this. Looking through this message board I do notice a lot of vibes around people's "crazy bitch exes" and I'm really not interested in that, in part because the gendered PLEASE READ is infuriating to me. I have been angry with this person and lord knows he has been emotionally manipulative to me and others, and he has not been responsible for working on healing his extensive childhood trauma. So what I'm saying is I want to approach this from a nuanced, balanced, actually compassionate towards self and other perspective. That doesn't mean I'm not willing to hear, "don't do it," because clearly I'm considering that by posting this novel on here haha.

Anyhow, thanks for reading and I hope you aren't all robots

[Gemsforeyes]

Dear Igneous-

Welcome to our community.  I’m glad that you’ve found us, but I am sorry for the reasons that bring you here.  And yes, often on the “Detaching” board you will find that members may tend to  “demonize”, for lack of a better word, their exBPD partners. 

Many people are moving through the stages of grief and can get anchored in the anger stage for quite some time.  And sometimes, depending on the extent of emotional abuse a person has endured, maintaining some level of anger for a while may help people keep the door closed to recycling attempts.

Bottom line, there’s really no right or wrong way to move through detachment, but we eventually learn it’s not helpful to get stuck in our own internal and silent rage.  Enough of the “crazy ex-bitch” thing, right?

Okay.  So my ex is an uBPD/NPD man (undiagnosed as far as I know).  I am a woman.  We’re both early 60’s and we spent 6.5 years together, with numerous breakups in between his final RAGE at me.  We’ve been apart since mid-February 2020 and I will not allow him near me again.  As of today.  I worked incredibly hard to arrive at this point.

I NEVER thought that he and I would not at the very least be friends.  But he would not take steps to help himself.  And like you, I could not “fix” him.  I’d known that for years.  And the relationship and many of his actions became too destructive for me to allow any more.  He HAS attempted to return since our breakup with little “fishing” texts.  If he were “only” BPD, maybe... but his narc behavior became way too much to bear.  I respond politely but don’t take the bait.  We’ve never blocked one another.  So that’s enough of me.

As for your situation... I take it that like many of us, perhaps you haven’t traveled in quite some time and are looking forward to some joyous reunions with family and friends in the state you’ll be visiting.  My opinion ... keep your focus on THAT objective.

I understand the sadness and frustration over deeply loving someone and wanting to share part, or ALL of your life with him; knowing or *believing* he wants that too; and also knowing he will do NOTHING to get himself there.  So you’re willing to essentially accept whatever he can do.  To meet him where he is.  But is any relationship with him sustainable?  If he’s a jealous man and you eventually want a romantic relationship with someone else.  There’s a question to ask yourself.

The issue, IMO, is that it’s difficult to measure where he *is* on any given day.  Or in any given moment.  So while you’ve had two nice phone conversations since August 2019, and he’s recently expressed a desire to see you, have an open mind and very open eyes.

If he expressed baseless jealousy when you were together, he COULD ramp it up by twisting the narrative when you’re there.  Meaning here you are, finally in the same location after 20 months and you’re spending all your time with “those people?”  ... “I thought you came here to see ME!”  Or... “if you loved me, you’d x,y,z...”
So perhaps from the start, you plan a lunch date toward the END of your visit... so that he doesn’t steer the direction of your visit.   I’m only an expert on my relationship... what I experienced.  Your thoughts?

It’s important to understand a bit about your own expectations about getting together and the potential for YOU to experience a setback in your own healing journey.  You cannot be responsible for how he reacts, although you do understand the history of how he attaches to you.  Are you setting yourself up for replays of uncomfortable behavior?  Maybe you want to look at these things, my friend.

The bottom line is that you’re going into this visit with some significant new knowledge and hard work under your belt.  He apparently hasn’t done these things.  What does that say to you?

There is so much more I could say... sorry for this book of words.  I hope I actually said something with meaning.

Please stay with us.  You’re safe here.

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

[once removed]

the key to detaching is ultimately to completely grieve the relationship.

whether you wanted to move on, to get back together, to just be friends, to fall in love with someone else...

all of these things are complicated when we havent completely grieved. when we arent "done".

[igneous]

Thank you @gemsforeyes, the last line of your response made me melt! Thank you so much for taking time to respond to me and your kind and insightful words.

I appreciate your insight around detachment and the necessary anger phase. I realized after I posted my initial post that what I said about that was rather harsh and maybe overly protective. I completely agree that anger is a necessary and individuating emotion, and after reading some stories here (and knowing my own) it is completely warranted.

Congratulations on setting boundaries for yourself with your ex. I know how incredibly hard that is, and I can't imagine what it would be like if my ex was still texting me periodically, that would be extremely dysregulating for me. So go you on all the work that you have been doing to get here.

Thank you for all of your advice and thoughts about my situation. I think you are spot on with the idea that my priority is seeing my friends. I have had some time to think about all of this, our conversation, and my trip since my original post. Something I didn't say is that when I talked with my exwbpd on Thursday, we talked for almost 2 hours :/--- yikes. I probably could have said at the time it was happening that that was too long, and now I know for sure that it was. We talked about so many things and felt really connected- and this is after 10 months of no contact. However something feeling good in the moment doesn't mean it won't feel terrible afterwards. I've had so many experiences of feeling so close to, loved and supported by him, and then him leaving that space in one way or another. It was too much, triggering, and has really thrown me off and brought up a bunch of sadness since. If it's not already clear, I have some attachment trauma myself, and our relationship was definitely a trigger to that trauma. I have done a lot of healing around that and have a lot of awareness- but you know, it's still there. It still sucks.

It is clear to me that, if I do want to have this person in my life someday, it needs to be incredibly boundaried. While I have had boundaries in a lot of ways, I also need to have them on things like this. @once removed, I totally hear you and I KNOW that there is still grief there. I'm not sure I need to go through some particular intense process of grieving to really be able to detach. I think grief is non-linear, and lord  knows I have grieved this person and relationship so many times, on so many levels, in so many ways. It feels like that should be enough already! But it's still there, and my attachment is still there, and my grief around what I wish could have been for him, and for us as a couple is still there. I guess I am trusting the idea that feeling detached from him completely will be that kind of gradually/suddenly vibe. I feel much less attached to him than I did, and my life without him in it is good, rich, and healthy (ya know, for the most part). I have to trust that if I keep doing my work and the next right thing, that things will continue to shift, change, and heal.

@gemsforeyes you are also completely right that although we have had a couple 'good' conversations, that does not mean that he is 'doing well'- at least not consistently. I know that for a fact. After this conversation I have had to remind myself of everything else that is true, because my emotional self just feels drowned in missing him and longing for that connection. And also the whiplash of being NC and then talking for 2 hours like a fool.

However, I'm trying to be gentle with myself and take this as information. I am clear that I won't be doing that again no matter how nice and tolerable it feels at the time, and also want to shift the dynamic around me being required to call him before I go back to my former/his current home. Like, maybe that could be an email next time. So I don't have to have such a heavy association with that place = emotional intensity, heartache. I also know I don't want to see him one-on-one while im there, and I'm leaning towards not seeing him at all. It would be naive of me to think that we would not feel an intense attraction towards each other, because that has always been there. In fact that is how we ended up getting back together so many times. We would have these estrangements and then see each other for the first time in a long time, and it would feel electric, intoxicating. I feel like his sx around impulsivity are really like that- he does what his body feels like doing and feels good and right to him in the moment without much heed of consequence or how that might impact others. Me, on the other hand, just always wanted love and closeness with him ("maybe this time it will be different.."). so, if we do see each other while I'm in that state (let's call it "Kansas"  ) it will be with mutual friends and for a short duration. We are going to be in the same space this summer more than likely, so if I decide not to see him in Kansas, I will probably see him a couple months later at a function we will both be at.

This illness is just so devestating, and it makes me very sad to think about how much pain it has caused me, other people in his life, and him. And all of you. I know I feel more regulated when I am in the more disgust "h*ll no" vibe thinking about our failed relationship and his behaviors and lack of taking care of himself/healing or meeting my needs, but its so easy to slip into grief. after our last break-up he had a suicide attempt, started therapy and then asked me to go away with him. I said no, obviously, but I literally think sometimes like what if I said yes to being with him through his healing? Could I have kept him in therapy (he has quit therapy at least twice since then). It's like actual lunacy I know.. but there you have it.

Anyhow, I'm ranting. I really appreciate the support and insight from you all. I hope I can offer support in return.

love from igneous

[igneous]

Also its funny to me that we aren't allowed to swear on here 

[igneous]

also @once removed, if you have any hot tips about completing the grief I am seriously all ears! Would love to hear from your experience.

[Lucky Jim]

Hey igneous, Welcome.  I suggest you avoid the toxic BPD swamp, or at least think twice before dipping your toe back in it.  It's easy to get lost in that morass!  What would you like to see happen?  Are you hoping for a recycle?

LuckyJim