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Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse... Have you considered that being critical, judgmental, or invalidating toward the other parent, no matter what she or he just did will only make matters worse? Someone has to be do something. This means finding the motivation to stop making things worse, learning how to interrupt your own negative responses, body language, facial expressions, voice tone, and learning how to inhibit your urges to do things that you later realize are contributing to the tensions.
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Author Topic: Had enough with constant accusations and verbal/emotional abuse  (Read 578 times)
Kistra713

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« on: April 10, 2021, 10:42:32 AM »

My uBPDbf of one year did it again. We had talked just a few days prior that if he was going out without me, just to let me know when he'd be home and if he would be late. Yesterday, he went out with friends and gave me a time of 10-11pm. Okay, I'm home from visiting my mom at 10, and knowing how he is, I give him until 11:30 to show up before saying anything. At 11pm, he messages me that he's on his way home. An hour later at midnight, still no sign of him. I call and he says he's "f***ed up" but is almost home. FYI, the place he went to is 25 minutes away and there was no traffic.

At 12:25 AM with no response to my texts, I'm getting annoyed. He calls me then and says he's downstairs. I ask him if he needs help with anything, he says no, he's coming up, so I say I'm going to bed, I waited almost 1.5 hours for him. Feeling as if something was off, I called him back 15 minutes later and he asks me to come down to help him bring some stuff upstairs. Said he had been sitting in the parking garage for 30 minutes "waiting" for me (but said he was coming upstairs) and watching p*rn. Meanwhile I had been sitting upstairs ready to be intimate with him and had told him so. This really hurt me.

I then ask why it took 1.5 hours to get home from a place 25 minutes away. He's clearly hammered, slurring his words, and then tries to turn it back around on ME and questioning everything I did that night (I had just gone out to visit my mom and grandma), demanding to know where I was, and again grabbing my phone repeatedly and digging through it for almost an hour. Then he didn't sleep until 9AM and before that, woke me up at 7AM to look through my phone again.

At some point in the night, a random photo from my old phone appeared on my new one, with a timestamp of 1:33AM and no location tag. Unfortunately, it was of me and a guy I went on one date with a few months before meeting my boyfriend. I truly have no idea how it appeared, but something odd like this did happen once on my old phone too. As well, my boyfriend was digging through my phone when he found that photo, and I honestly hadn't seen it before he got hold of my phone.

In his drunken state, my partner then starts accusing me of cheating on him and lying about where I'd been, even AFTER I called my mom to ask her about the restaurant name we went to (to prove I was with her). He said she "didn't sound convincing", but she was half asleep when I called. Starts pummeling me with questions about who this guy was, and his name, and then whenever he saw any male name in my photos or seller app, he demanded to know who that guy was (even if the man's name was attached to a recipe).

Then started accusing me of seeing this guy behind his back, that I was still talking to him, screaming "we're done for real!" and saying he wanted to break up. He threw our laundry all over the floor trying to find the clothes I wore last night, and kept insisting it was the same clothes as in the picture with the old guy I dated (it wasn't, and I even pulled the same outfit from that night out from the bottom of my drawer and the depths of my closet). Then came into the room pushing my things around trying to find the pair of earrings I wore in the picture, screaming repeatedly in my face that I'm a liar and cheater. I didn't wear earrings last night to visit my family. 

The whole time he tried to avoid talking about why he was 1.5 hours late. He later admitted that he stopped over at his weed dealer's place to try and illegally gamble, but couldn't because they didn't have room for him, and then he did coke. Supposedly he was stressed because he "knew he would come home to my being mad at him" and he didn't want to deal with it. Then I found out he was trying to contact an old female friend who he had voluntarily said he stopped talking to out of respect for me (he's also friends with her brother and the brother was in trouble). Then he went on about how I could have joined him and his friends at the bar, even though he never invited me on their boys' night and I didn't know which bar he was at.

I should mention something like this happens about once every 2 weeks because he insists on going out on Fridays and getting absolutely smashed, and God help you if you try to stop him. Occasionally he won't go out and will just stay in with a few drinks, and those nights he's fine. I should mention the double standard, I was 20 min late coming home from work once and 30 min late coming back from my mom's. I got the interrogation and him being convinced I was out cheating on him. I did lie to him twice to avoid an episode of verbal abuse, but I have never cheated on him or done or talked to anyone behind his back. I have not lied to him since, but he's convinced I'm still a liar. I share my GPS location with him indefinitely and I share my route when I'm going somewhere. I'm always home when I say I will be. If I ever came home 1.5 hours late, there would be hell to pay on my end.

Now he's sleeping finally after nearly going through an entire 750ml of vodka, but it turned into a big blowout fight, and I admitted I lost it and called him names right back. I'm seriously considering leaving him, but he's cut off most of my support system with his jealousy and possessiveness, and we still share a lease for another year. He told me that if I move out, he will not agree to sign my name off the lease. I don't know what to do and I feel trapped. Any advice on what I could do without being stuck with him for another year?

Thank you! 
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formflier
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« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2021, 03:07:07 PM »


I'm curious to know what would have happened if you had waited to discuss this when he was sober?

Is this a typical result from a discussion with him in this state?

Best,

FF
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Kistra713

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« Reply #2 on: April 11, 2021, 01:28:33 PM »

I'm curious to know what would have happened if you had waited to discuss this when he was sober?

Is this a typical result from a discussion with him in this state?

Best,

FF

Hi FormFlier, yes, this is typical when he's hammered like that. We did try to talk yesterday and a bit today, when he was sober, and he was still insisting that I cheated on him and that he no longer wants to be with me. Yet, he's giving me a hard time about potentially moving out and breaking up and it's clear he won't make it easy for me.

I should mention that there were two other "instances" where he was convinced I was cheating/talking to other men. One was when a guy I dated in the past reached out out of the blue through a new number, and I essentially told him to go away and blocked him. Another time was when an old male friend called during my lunch break and left a voicemail to check on me. I have since stopped speaking to him too. This had my partner convinced that I was secretly in contact with both those men, even though I didn't do anything to instigate that contact. Now this happened when an old photo appeared in my photo album, timestamped 1:33 AM, when I was sitting right in front of my boyfriend and he had my phone in his hands. 

Now he's saying "three strikes you're out" and I'm getting tired of having to prove my innocence over and over. Of course, he said some other crude things, like "I won't sleep with you while you're out taking other c**ks" and "when you come home, did you just bang another guy?"

I'm truly at a loss. I tried not JADEing, but it didn't work and he just kept yelling in my face, rifling through the laundry and my clothes drawers and my phone and is still bringing it up two days later.

I know alcohol is a big problem and he pretty much turns into a different person when he drinks, angry and paranoid.  I'm truly at a loss at this point and I feel trapped.
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kells76
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« Reply #3 on: April 11, 2021, 10:24:31 PM »

Hey Kistra713;

 Virtual hug (click to insert in post) Wow, you really went through it. I'm sorry it was such an intense night for you -- that sounds incredibly stressful.

Maybe I missed some backstory, but if he's saying things like this:

Excerpt
he was still insisting... that he no longer wants to be with me

and

Excerpt
he's saying "three strikes you're out" and I'm getting tired of having to prove my innocence over and over

...what would be the downside of breaking up? I have a couple of guesses but will wait to hear your perspective on things.

I really hope you have a chance to do some self care in the next day or two -- you deserve something kind for yourself.

-kells76
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« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2021, 06:54:35 AM »


"proving your innocence" is most likely actually upsetting him.

Unless I'm reading the story wrong, he accuses, you prove..he stays mad (convinced).  Do I have that right?

Best,

FF
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Kistra713

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« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2021, 08:53:45 AM »

Hi Kells and FormFlier, thanks for your responses.

To answer your questions - Kells, there is some backstory here. I cut off the vast majority of my male friends because he was convinced they all wanted to sleep with me (one did hit on me, but I cut him off) because he was making it so difficult and complained all the time, and I cut them off without saying anything to appease him and stop the accusations. As I mentioned above, there were a few other incidences which convinced him I was "cheating":

1. He somehow dug out a Plenty of Fish deletion site on my phone while digging through it for evidence I had "cheated". To this day, I have no idea where he got it from, since I never used PoF. He clicked on the site, then in a drunken state, went back to my browser history and of course it showed up as having been accessed that day. This led to accusations I was using dating sites while I was with him, which I never was, and even deleted ALL my dating apps in front of him the day we decided to be boyfriend/girlfriend.

2. A guy I once dated years ago, before I met him, called me out of the blue on a new number (had his old number blocked). I picked up not knowing who it was, and after finding out who it was, I told him to go away and never contact me again.

3. An old male friend (the one who hit on me), called me to check on me and see if I was okay. I never picked up the phone, he left me a voicemail (in my blocked folder), and I never called him back.

4. An old photo taken 1.5 years ago showed up on my phone *while* again, my partner was digging through my phone. No idea how this happened, it was of me and a guy I went on a date with before I met my partner. Again, here came the accusations that I was secretly seeing that guy when I actually went to see my mom and grandma (and have mail from my mom's house since I used to live there, brought food home for him from a restaurant we went to, AND I called my mom to *confirm* that I was with her that night). Again, no idea how he got that photo, as it wasn't saved to my new phone and it was pretty clear I wasn't wearing that same outfit as in that photo.

5. This is a new one...yesterday, another old male friend (this one is getting married and never flirted with or hit on me in 8 years of knowing him) just called from his work number to find out if I was okay, because no one in that friend group had been able to get hold of me. He purely called out of concern and once he heard I was okay, he said ok good to hear, just wanted to make sure and we hung up. Now, more accusations that I had "random men" calling me even though my partner was told several times about this friend when we first started dating. Just due to the pandemic, we never got to hang out all together.

Does all that make me look like I'm cheating? I have never once done anything or saw anyone he didn't know about and I have NEVER cheated on him, or even flirted with another guy since being with him.

FormFlier - I agree, I did start the whole thing with JADEing, which I assume made him angrier and angrier. He was also drunk and had done drugs that night, which I know didn't help with his raging and delusional thinking. Once I realized, I stopped JADEing, but by then he was already so mad that he didn't want to hear anything I had to say. When he's raged before, I tried to be calm and reassuring, but that doesn't help either. I can't walk away because he'll follow me or block me, and then scream at me that I'm admitting guilt by leaving.

I don't know what else to do at this point, other than leaving him, which he's making difficult for me too.
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Kistra713

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« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2021, 10:12:31 AM »

..what would be the downside of breaking up? I have a couple of guesses but will wait to hear your perspective on things.

I really hope you have a chance to do some self care in the next day or two -- you deserve something kind for yourself.

-kells76

So sorry I missed your question! I guess I just keep hoping I could love him out of it, but I’m starting to realize I can’t. As well, I’m also on a shared lease with him for another year and he’s making it clear that he won’t cooperate in signing me off the lease, and he said that if I moved out, he would too and doesn’t care if he ruins his credit.

There’s also guilt that he won’t be able to take care of himself and possibly hurt himself if I leave, or spiral into drug/alcohol addiction, as he said he has in the past. Of course I still care about and love him, but I can’t take his rages and accusations and binge drinking anymore.
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kells76
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« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2021, 10:55:53 AM »

Excerpt
So sorry I missed your question! I guess I just keep hoping I could love him out of it, but I’m starting to realize I can’t. As well, I’m also on a shared lease with him for another year and he’s making it clear that he won’t cooperate in signing me off the lease, and he said that if I moved out, he would too and doesn’t care if he ruins his credit.

There’s also guilt that he won’t be able to take care of himself and possibly hurt himself if I leave, or spiral into drug/alcohol addiction, as he said he has in the past. Of course I still care about and love him, but I can’t take his rages and accusations and binge drinking anymore.

That's OK  Being cool (click to insert in post)

So, if we were to list out the negatives of separating, they would include:

1. You still have hope, including that you can love him out of it.

2. You are on a shared lease with him for one more year.

3. You would feel guilty for not taking care of him.

4. You are concerned that he would become more addicted to drugs and alcohol.

Is that close? Any more?

I think I hear you saying some positives about separating, too:

1. You realize you cannot love him out of it.

2. You cannot take his rages and accusations any more.

3. You cannot take his binge drinking any more.

Is that close, too? Any more?

...

Also, FormFlier is a GREAT person to talk to about "How do I deal with a pwBPD who is convinced that I'm cheating?" Please keep the dialogue going with him!

One of the things I've learned from dealing with my DH's kids' mom is that I have a "hopeful belief" that if we can just PROVE something to her, that will change how she thinks and acts. Over the last almost decade  Frustrated/Unfortunate (click to insert in post) , she has "helped us learn" that that is not a rational belief. Showing her rock-solid evidence does not help change anything.

To non-dysregulating folks like us, evidence can prove things. It's not crazy for you and I to look at your list and be like, "Yeah, Kistra713 is definitely not cheating". But pwBPD's minds don't work that way. In a sense, the way their minds work is: "The very fact that you are presenting evidence that you aren't cheating, proves that you are, because only a cheater would try to prove that they aren't a cheater". Evidence of non-cheating increases the paranoia of the pwBPD that you ARE.

This does not make sense to us, but it "makes sense" to them.

FormFlier, please elaborate where I missed anything!
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« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2021, 11:06:06 AM »

Hopefully I'll have more time later to join in more.  You guys keep it up!


Understand the power of invalidation.

Yes it's important to avoid JADE...but the article above describes a far more important issue.

After reading it...take a couple tries at explaining how you invalidated.

Critical concept to understand and apply at a very fundamental level.

Best,

FF
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Kistra713

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« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2021, 01:55:15 PM »

Thank you both. Kells, your understanding is on point and sounds just about right. After hearing about your husband's BPD ex, it makes more sense now. They only want to believe their version of events and no evidence can convince them otherwise. My partner just accuses me of lying and hiding things anyway. I said I wish I was that careful about covering ALL my tracks from all those supposed secret dalliances! I'm pretty careless and definitely not that detail-oriented to begin with. And if I truly was cheating as much as he thinks I am, he would be finding evidence right away, considering he knows to look in places where I wouldn't even know to look.

FormFlier, I read through that article and thought of a few ways I might be invalidating him. I didn't know how to respond because I truly had no idea where that odd photo came from, and I couldn't stop my old friend calling from a different number to make sure I wasn't dead (since I had to block his personal number). I couldn't stop anyone from reaching out to me but I felt like I dealt with it all the best I could.

I believe that by denying his claims and getting emotional, he probably thought that it just proved his point that I couldn't be trusted. And by constantly throwing evidence at him (even though you can't prove a negative), he probably believes if I have nothing to hide, why am I going out of my way to do all that. He probably doesn't feel heard in his concerns and thinking about it now, I believe it's a belief that he's going to get abandoned and left for another man, just like his exes and his parents abandoned him. Add the fact that he has a chronic medical condition and he has said that's made him feel even more insecure.

Today, he messaged me saying he felt really depressed and why is he bothering when all this "evidence" is there that I'm cheating and "all these things keep coming up, what am I supposed to think. It's almost comical at this point", and scoffed when I tried to reassure him. Again, my first instinct was to defend myself, but I decided to validate his worries. I said - "I get that you're upset because of past events and you believe I might be hiding things. That makes you feel like I'm not true to you, and just like your exes. But I love you and I only want to be with you, and there's nobody else. I wish those things hadn't happened and I wish I had a better explanation for that odd photo (which I deleted). I'm trying to show you that there's no one else and I have no desire to hide sh*t from you."

I hope that sounded ok? He's stopped responding for now, but we'll see how he is when I get home from work later. I don't think he's connecting his binge drinking on Friday contributing to his depression now...he's said that's happened before. When things like this happen and he won't stop drinking, I don't know how to help him out of it, or if I even can.

Is there anything that you both are seeing from an outside perspective, that I might be missing? I do want to learn. Even if things wind up not working out with my partner, I think it's good to learn empathetic listening and validation with anyone.
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« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2021, 02:59:20 PM »


The basic feeling of you cheating is not based on facts...although it appears to be (picture, internet history)...those things provide a "grain of truth" to cling to.

There is not much you can do with fact that helps him feel better

I feel like she doesn't love me and is a cheater.  (his basic feeling)

You prove you are not cheating, and therefor must actually love him...yet what actually happened is that you rubbed his feelings more raw by invalidating him.

As opposed to..

"Oh wow...tough place to be.  I'm listening."  (then be quiet..little bits of active listening..no defending)

he presses for details

"Oh babe...this is so shocking.  I'm going to have to think it through carefully."  (again...you and he are in the same place..."shocking")

Often these feelings can be "fixed".  That's the basic thought when you try to "prove" them wrong.  "Oh..I can fix this...he doesn't know xyz."

as opposed to the basic thought of

"Oh my..what a dark place to be in.  Let me listen."

Whenever you come up with a response...stop for a minute and try to cut the words in half.  It's not about details...it's about empathy and care.

With that in mind, can you re-write your message to him.  Don't resend it..just a teaching tool for here.

Best,

FF

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« Reply #11 on: April 12, 2021, 05:19:05 PM »

If he's accusing you of cheating when he's drunk, it's a zero sum game to engage him. 

He's not in his right mind and is trying to change the topic so it isn't about him.

BPD + alcohol means he'll have zero inhibition and no brakes on his worst impulses.

This isn't something you can control. Better to ask yourself what behaviors you're willing to tolerate and ways you can take care of yourself when he drinks.
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Breathe.
Kistra713

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« Reply #12 on: April 13, 2021, 06:27:17 AM »

The basic feeling of you cheating is not based on facts...although it appears to be (picture, internet history)...those things provide a "grain of truth" to cling to.

There is not much you can do with fact that helps him feel better

I feel like she doesn't love me and is a cheater.  (his basic feeling)

You prove you are not cheating, and therefor must actually love him...yet what actually happened is that you rubbed his feelings more raw by invalidating him.

As opposed to..

"Oh wow...tough place to be.  I'm listening."  (then be quiet..little bits of active listening..no defending)

he presses for details

"Oh babe...this is so shocking.  I'm going to have to think it through carefully."  (again...you and he are in the same place..."shocking")

Often these feelings can be "fixed".  That's the basic thought when you try to "prove" them wrong.  "Oh..I can fix this...he doesn't know xyz."

as opposed to the basic thought of

"Oh my..what a dark place to be in.  Let me listen."

Whenever you come up with a response...stop for a minute and try to cut the words in half.  It's not about details...it's about empathy and care.

With that in mind, can you re-write your message to him.  Don't resend it..just a teaching tool for here.

Best,

FF



Thank you so much, this is on point. The core of it is exactly that, believing I’m a cheater and don’t love him. I understand now how presenting evidence invalidates him and makes things worse.

Being quiet is tough for me, because I often want to fill in silences. But again, that usually makes things worse and again a good skill to learn in life. I made this mistake yesterday when I did what you suggested, simply saying “that’s so shocking that that all happened but I’m listening.” This led to him being quiet for a bit, but I kept talking after that and it escalated. That was my mistake, I should have just let the silence and him be.

If I were to redo the message, I’d try something like “I’m so sorry you feel that way. I’m here and you have my full attention.” And let him say his piece.

I still have quite a bit to learn. My question is...as of last night he was still upset and depressed. Is it too late to use all those strategies now, going forward? Even though I’ve already JADEed and invalidated him?
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Kistra713

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« Reply #13 on: April 13, 2021, 06:46:25 AM »

If he's accusing you of cheating when he's drunk, it's a zero sum game to engage him. 

He's not in his right mind and is trying to change the topic so it isn't about him.

BPD + alcohol means he'll have zero inhibition and no brakes on his worst impulses.

This isn't something you can control. Better to ask yourself what behaviors you're willing to tolerate and ways you can take care of yourself when he drinks.

Hi livenlearned, I’ve definitely started to realize this. Alcohol + mental illness is definitely not a good mix. Most cheating accusations come when he’s drunk, but on occasion he still accuses me when he’s sober. The only other way I can *not* engage him is by walking away or locking myself in a separate room, but my problem is, I wait awhile, get worried and then come back to engage him again, which I know now is a big mistake. It escalates the accusations and his bad behavior. I have to learn to just let him be.

If I walk away, he says that’s admitting guilt and will still be convinced I’m sneaking off to meet another guy. And I have nowhere to go that late at night...my mom will be asleep and the best female friend I had, he isolated me from her.

I do believe that the accusations are a way to deflect from himself. Both times with the photo and web history, he knew I was going to be upset with him for smoking cigarettes/coming home way later than he said/doing drugs.

With the dating website, I believe he clicked in the site and then it showed up in my browser history for that day, and when he went back for the phone, he forgot he searched it and thought I was still visiting the site. There were no other incidences of me visiting that site anywhere else in my browser history.

With the photo, I think I figured out what happened. He probably dug out the old photo from my backups or Cloud drive and then while drunkenly messing with my phone, took a screenshot. So it looked like it was my most recent photo. At 1 33, I was sitting right next to him AND he had my phone, but he refuses to acknowledge that. He was so drunk that night that he didn’t recognize my own phone # from my contact card, and he started messaging my # on my phone, believing it was a guy I was sneaking around with.

Of course I can’t tell him that, he will just say I’m making excuses, even to this day. I can’t win.
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« Reply #14 on: April 13, 2021, 06:56:37 AM »

Hey...before I respond with details, it's important to step back and look at the big picture.  I had been focused on "how to respond".  

livednlearned is making a much bigger and more important point.  Not "how" to respond but "when and if" a response is wise.

I'm kinda a checklist person (hmmm...naval aviator..yep..that fits).

So my pwBPB says something odd

1.  Is it boundary time or response time?  Some things are so horrid that you just "boundary" and let things cool.  Plus you have to look at yourself and them.  Perhaps you know for sure that it's noon and neither one of you have eaten or had a cup of coffee yet.  This is a more "gentle" boundary.  "Babe..that sounds important.  I'll give it my full attention after brunch and coffee."  (and then do brunch and coffee).  Plus...time usually cools things, especially with a gentle "kicking of the can down the road"...like in the brunch and coffee example.

To LNL's point.  If drugs and alcohol are involved...it's hard to imagine that doing anything other than "kicking it down the road" (until sober and rested and fed) will do anything positive.  Then...there is the chance they won't remember.  Hint: Don't help them remember...move forward, don't do "archaeology" on past arguments and dysregulations...let them stay buried.

Anyway...didn't I mention checklist somewhere?   Frustrated/Unfortunate (click to insert in post)

1.  Boundary or response.

2.  Respond if wise at some point

3.  Leave door open to relationship..don't chase.

4.  Reward good behavior..ignore/starve bad behavior.

Wash rinse repeat.


Ok..now to address your responses and then off to grab my second cup of coffee.




 The core of it is exactly that, believing I’m a cheater and don’t love him.  

Perhaps...  

I would challenge you to NOT make it about you.  Make it about him.  What does he believe about himself?


If I were to redo the message, I’d try something like “I’m so sorry you feel that way. I’m here and you have my full attention.” And let him say his piece.

Solid work...solid.  

But wait...FF is going to ask you to cut the words in half...yep.  Less words are more power. (we can get into why later)


Is it too late to use all those strategies now, going forward?  

It's never too late...

Here is the thing..I routinely screw this stuff up..even now.  I don't walk around "thinking about strategies" now.  I used to...and that was OK.  Now... once I realize that I've missed something...or a tool is needed I ask for time, rummage around in my "toolbag" and see what I can do.  Confident that I have a number of things in there that are helpful.

"Oh Babe...goodness...that came out all wrong.  Let me think for a minute."

Hey...you are doing great stuff here!  We are cheering for you!

Best,

FF
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« Reply #15 on: April 13, 2021, 07:03:24 AM »

  then while drunkenly messing with my phone, took a screenshot. 

How did this happen?  Did you give him your finger to unlock it with your fingerprint..or perhaps he demanded you screen lock and you gave it to him?

Scratching my head a bit here...

Best,

FF
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« Reply #16 on: April 13, 2021, 12:42:09 PM »

How did this happen?  Did you give him your finger to unlock it with your fingerprint..or perhaps he demanded you screen lock and you gave it to him?

Scratching my head a bit here...

Best,

FF

FF - Thank you for your thorough response. I think checklists are great =) To answer this question, he knows my password, and I know his. Sometimes I make the mistake of giving him my phone to show him I'm not lying, but as I now understand, this makes it worse and he just grabs the phone from me to comb through it, finding things to prove that I *am* indeed, the cheater and liar that he believes me to be at the time. Otherwise, I have Face ID and when he's in a raging/drunken state, he will hold it to my face to "make" me unlock it. He ended up somehow disabling my phone temporarily on Friday night and then screamed "what did you do? Why is it locked?" When I was laying in bed not even touching the phone.

When he's drinking heavily and in the couple days following, he's impossible to reason with. I like the idea of "kicking it down the road"...it's really helpful and I think I just need to disengage more and emotionally detach in those moments. As a recovering codependent, it's really hard for me sometimes. I can successfully set down boundaries and disengage, and he does leave me alone. But then I start worrying and go out to talk to him again, and I suppose it's like poking an angry bear. That's probably what I need to stop doing.

And using less words...I do tend to be long-winded (as you can see from my posts!). My mom used to always tell me "you don't HAVE to respond to every little thing" and "stop talking so much sometimes!" I'm not always comfortable with silence and sometimes just blab to fill in the blank. I know I need to work on this.

I've thought about just going to stay at my mom's on nights that he's heavily drinking and just coming back the next day. But then I don't know how to deal with cheating accusations when I return home the next day and persistent questioning about why I didn't come home. I've already told him that if he's going to drink well into the night, I might just stay at my mom's. He kind of sneered (this was a day after drinking, maybe I shouldn't have brought it up then) "okay, whatever you want to do. Stay at your mom's or wherever you are that night." Thoughts?

Your advice has been super helpful so far and it's definitely helping me change my mindset and see things in a different light!
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« Reply #17 on: April 13, 2021, 01:00:23 PM »

  He kind of sneered 

What do you think he was communicating to you/about you with the sneer.

I'm not ignoring all the other stuff...but you are "right there"...right on the edge of understanding some very important things. 

Critical we don't miss any of it, we can talk more about the other stuff later.

Best,

FF
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« Reply #18 on: April 13, 2021, 01:33:22 PM »

What do you think he was communicating to you/about you with the sneer.

I'm not ignoring all the other stuff...but you are "right there"...right on the edge of understanding some very important things. 

Critical we don't miss any of it, we can talk more about the other stuff later.

Best,

FF

Thank you, and understood Smiling (click to insert in post) I took his sneering and comment to mean...insinuating that I wasn’t going to be at my mom’s and was instead going out and staying over at some random man’s house.

He told me I can’t be mad if he decides to stay out all night drinking if he lets me know in advance. I agreed and told him he can’t be mad if I choose to stay at my mom’s so I’m not waiting up for him all night and then having to deal with whatever drunken craziness ensues. He then made that comment above.
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« Reply #19 on: April 13, 2021, 01:34:57 PM »


Perhaps that's what it meant...perhaps not.

Does he respect you?

Best,

FF
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« Reply #20 on: April 13, 2021, 02:35:44 PM »

Perhaps that's what it meant...perhaps not.

Does he respect you?

Best,

FF

Hm, either that or he was making fun of me for “running home to mommy”.

Respect? Honestly I don’t think so. He mentioned to me once that he wanted me to stand up more for myself.
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« Reply #21 on: April 13, 2021, 03:02:28 PM »



Respect? Honestly I don’t think so. He mentioned to me once that he wanted me to stand up more for myself.

Wow...um...I literally don't think I have ever...EVER said this on this forum.  Please check my post count..it's a lot.

I think for this particular matter, you should listen to your pwBPD!

Best,

FF
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« Reply #22 on: April 13, 2021, 03:14:47 PM »

If he's accusing you of cheating when he's drunk, it's a zero sum game to engage him. 

He's not in his right mind and is trying to change the topic so it isn't about him.

BPD + alcohol means he'll have zero inhibition and no brakes on his worst impulses.

This isn't something you can control. Better to ask yourself what behaviors you're willing to tolerate and ways you can take care of yourself when he drinks.

If I may step in, this is SO true.  My bpd wife is an alcoholic and the turmoil that put me an my daughter through was devastating.  When he binge drinks IMO just say to him 'I will not talk to you now, but will when you sober up'. Then leave it at that.  Don't respond to any of his pleas.  Encourage him to go to bed and sleep.  It worked for me some of the times.  Perhaps boundaries and him going to AA?
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« Reply #23 on: April 13, 2021, 04:57:55 PM »

Thanks so much, you guys. I agree, alcoholism + BPD is a potent combination and a nightmare:

I came home today and we were about to grill, but then he threw a fit because I bought the wrong mushrooms. Then he went on saying he can’t be happy with me anymore because I’m supposedly cheating on him with my ex in the old photo. Won’t listen when I tried to gently explain he might have screenshotted an old photo in my backups (since he was so drunk he was texting my own number that night trying to catch me talking to another guy), but he just laughed in my face and stormed out.

Said “how dare you get upset with me drinking once a week when you’re out there cheating and talking to random men you f**king liar.” I probably shouldn’t have explained, but I couldn’t have him still believing I had another man’s photo on my phone, even when all evidence points to it being a mistake that it showed up.

I’m about to leave and just stay with my mom for a few days, and then try to figure out the rent situation later. I know he won’t cooperate with me and I don’t know what to do if that happens. I don’t know if I can go through this relationship being afraid of anyone calling me or god forbid, an old male friend tries to get in contact to see if I’m still alive.
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« Reply #24 on: April 13, 2021, 05:34:31 PM »

When he binge drinks IMO just say to him 'I will not talk to you now, but will when you sober up'. Then leave it at that.  Don't respond to any of his pleas.  Encourage him to go to bed and sleep.  It worked for me some of the times.

Same for me.

I had some success saying "stop" in a firm voice while holding up my hand. n/BPDx would start up again and I would repeat "stop" until he sort of regressed. Sometimes he would sulk or pout which wasn't awesome to see but a lot better to get through than a rage-a-thon.

The intention has to be about what you are willing to experience. Versus shaming him for what he's doing.

He will test you, of course.

My sense is that your BF feels controlled and judged so he's in a defensive crouch and interprets your disappointment with him as a precursor to abandonment.

If you leave with a cheerful "buh-bye, gonna go see my mom for a few days and I'll be back" your BF may be able to manage a reset. But if you leave in an emotionally injured state, he may have a harder time reading your exit as anything but terminal.

When he says you're cheating, imagine him saying you have four heads and 7 horns in all colors of the rainbow.

It's nonsense.

"Stop" is a perfectly adequate response to nonsense you no longer wish to hear.

"Enough."

"No."

Also good.

 Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #25 on: April 13, 2021, 08:24:46 PM »

Thank you all for your help. I decided to leave him after another episode of verbal abuse and blaming and false accusations.

I’m staying with my mom’s until I can figure out what to do about the shared lease. I actually told him if he can get professional help and control his drinking, we might have a chance later. But I know he won’t do it and will just stay in denial.
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You can't reason with the Voice of Unreason...


« Reply #26 on: April 14, 2021, 11:44:59 PM »

You've been together for a year.  Better to determine whether this relationship has a future, positive or not, *now* rather than 5-10 years from now when you'd be weary from all the appeasement and unrelenting blaming and with kids in the mix.

I picked this out of my ancient history.  Ponder whether this makes sense for you.
As some have remarked, There are healthier fish in the sea, let this one go.
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« Reply #27 on: April 15, 2021, 07:06:10 AM »

I am glad you stood up for yourself.  Remember he will pull on your heartstrings.  Him being a BPD he truly believes that you are cheating and no amount of trying to explain it will make it better.  I also believe insecurity leads to control which leads to abuse. 

When my wife quit drinking she told me it was her 'armor'.  It was her way to face the world, however it destroyed the world for me and my daughter.  It was also her way to not take blame for her behavior.  'It was the alcohol that made me do x,y,z'.  Afterwards she would often then say 'You are the reason why I want to drink again'.  Not saying he would be this way but I am sure it's a familiar story on here with others.

It's easy to lose yourself when you put in all your emotion and love into someone and save nothing for yourself.  I'm proud of you for not just walking away but for loving like you have.  Takes someone with a big heart and two big shoulders to deal with people who have this disorder.

Just remember to keep loving yourself Smiling (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #28 on: April 15, 2021, 09:06:59 AM »


Is this the first "break" you guys have taken?

If not...how did the others go/resolve?

Big picture:  Separate what he says from what he actually does "to get you back".

Don't put much stock in words...

Pay close attention to what he does..over time.

Best,

FF
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« Reply #29 on: April 15, 2021, 11:04:59 AM »

I’m staying with my mom’s until I can figure out what to do about the shared lease. I actually told him if he can get professional help and control his drinking, we might have a chance later. But I know he won’t do it and will just stay in denial.

How are you doing, Kistra713?

I hope you're getting the love and support you need and deserve.

Give lots of love to that part of yourself that is looking out for you  Virtual hug (click to insert in post)

Whether this is a break or the final exit, either way we're here for you.

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