New Guy. Made the decision to end the marriage, but it's complex.

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

What about a need for constant noise?

In the last couple of years she has to have something playing her every waking hour.  When she manages to get up early enough to catch me on the tail end of my breakfast, down she comes, phone in-hand, with something playing on it and my nice quiet morning is over.  If not the phone, then the radio, t.v., or computer (many times more than one thing is playing at a time).  On top of that she'll start talking to me.  She knows I can't hear clearly with other things playing, but will almost never turn off the device first.  If I ask her to, she gets irritated.  If I can't understand her, she gets irritated.

Even when she works in the yard, the phone is in her pocket playing something.  As soon as she gets in the car, the radio is on.  My guess is that she can't stand to be with the silence of her thoughts.  It's not all music and, if it's a talk radio program and if I turn it down so I can talk to the kids, it's "Hey, I'm listening to that" but if you ask her what they were talking about, she can almost never tell you.

 

 

[Couper]

What about a need for constant noise?

In the last couple of years she has to have something playing her every waking hour.  When she manages to get up early enough to catch me on the tail end of my breakfast, down she comes, phone in-hand, with something playing on it and my nice quiet morning is over.  If not the phone, then the radio, t.v., or computer (many times more than one thing is playing at a time).  On top of that she'll start talking to me.  She knows I can't hear clearly with other things playing, but will almost never turn off the device first.  If I ask her to, she gets irritated.  If I can't understand her, she gets irritated.

Even when she works in the yard, the phone is in her pocket playing something.  As soon as she gets in the car, the radio is on.  My guess is that she can't stand to be with the silence of her thoughts.  It's not all music and, if it's a talk radio program and if I turn it down so I can talk to the kids, it's "Hey, I'm listening to that" but if you ask her what they were talking about, she can almost never tell you.

 

 

[Red22]

Ok, so not the same with startling noises.
Possibly the same with leaving for work.
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I recognise the embarrassment of visitors coming around.
1. She'll either not talk voluntarily at all, or, if greeted, will mutter a reply.
2. She'll start telling them about 'all our problems'.
3. She'll come up with a whole new narrative of our life in that place.
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Not constant noise, but more often than not there's a video playing in the background - it's very rarely music, if ever. Korean gameshows, Korean soaps, true crime documentaries, unsolved crime documentaries, and gay community comedy shows are the staples.
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Doing two things at once - big yes. Watch YouTube and play a video game at the same time - for hours straight. Says "I'm multitasking".

[Couper]

Maybe more similar to your startling noise thing, if she's in the other room reading something on the computer you'll hear a lot of exasperation: "Oh my gosh.  Oh no.  I can't believe it.  What next?" all designed to get you to come in and express concern and then you find out it's something trivial like laundry detergent isn't on sale this week.  I think that falls more into the "crying wolf" category.  I don't acknowledge any of that stuff anymore.

Muttering is a big gripe of mine.  When eating out the waitress will ask her something and she'll either look down and shake her head or mutter something that puts the waitress in the awkward position of having to ask again.

This still happens all the time.  At home she'll make a statement and then ask a question that trails off into a mutter.  "I'm going into town.  Do you want me to..." and then the rest is unintelligible.  I'll ask her, "Do I want you to what when you go into town?" and she'll reply with, "I'm going into town" and then I get sucked into this circle of telling her, "Right, I heard that part, there is a second part where you asked if I want you to do something.  Do I want you to what?" and I'll either get told, "Nothing, I'm just going into town" or she will finally repeat the question after a lot of probing.

What about putting herself in harms-way?  This sounds really stupid, but I see this a lot of times when I'm mowing grass.  Our yard is pretty big and it's not uncommon to hit a rock or chunk of wood and send it flying.  When she wants something, she will appear out of the blue and walk up on the discharge side of the tractor.  I quit telling her why she shouldn't do that because it became obvious that she was doing it for exactly that reason.  What really upset me is when she would have one of the kids in tow.  I finally realized that I couldn't teach her, but I've now got my kids trained not to do that.  What I've had happen several times is when she's working diligently in one part of the yard, I'll pick the opposite area to mow (we're talking a few acres of distance here) and the next thing I know now she's working right within chucking distance of the machine when there is no reason for her to be there.  This spring she did that at dusk and I hit a small pile of debris that I couldn't see that she had left piled up in the tall grass and I think something hit her in the head.  Needless to say, after years of that behavior she hasn't gotten close lately.

  

[Cromwell]

I didn't live with her so i didn't experience this to that level. Although i reckon based on what I've pieced together it would be that way. It helps to read these accounts.

If this is first foray into this Red22. Id say to maintain open mind whilst taking notes. Conclusions may not be necessary yet? Maybe it was easier for me, my ex had a professional diagnosis. What I'd say is, you are in the right place. If the material resonates with you, it's a heavy emotional subject. I get the impression you are comfortable pacing yourself i found the archaeological analogy reassuring. I've found strength in stability. Stability from balanced living. I had to decide at a. Juncture, do i want that? Or do i want to continue a life that is dissolved in drama, chaos. Quite frankly, I think once i figured out the games and repetitions. It got incredibly boring. Just cowardly texts, cryptic, bizarre. But trying to hurt. I found it senseless. Banal.

How are you doing? If you get ever difficulties we get it here and just a few clicks away

[Red22]

How am I going, Cromwell?
Slowly. But this definitely resonates. I'm recognising a lot by reading here... this process is interesting in the same way a train wreck draws one in.
How are you?
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Here's my Saturday.
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Saturday, 29 May, 10.58
No fighting, but no talking, either. Separate lives. I’m ok with that.
But I’ve a bad stomach again - feels like food poisoning with recurring cramping up. I've no idea where this came from, but I won't be going anywhere today.
I've managed to avoid fight weekend by only eating breakfast together over the last 3 days, leaving the table quietly at the first sign of a hijack, then staying away for the whole day and not accepting any further invitations to eat with a very calm and clear, "No, thanks. I don't know why, but I'm just not hungry", re “Become Boring”, - Joe Carver.
She’s back in the single room now with a video playing, but this time she’s cleaning it - dusting and sweeping. She commented on how dirty it is when I went to look.
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Possible link - but I don’t know how to classify it. Physical attack? My own paranoia?
I had my second haircut of the year yesterday and now look presentable again. It’s been around 3 months since the last, but the vaccinations are in place in this neighbourhood now. He took off a good inch above the ears to go back to a military short back and sides, and I took the same off the beard when I got home - that's a number 3 now.
A big change, and it got no comment at all. She said nothing.
Speculation - Did she think I was going somewhere or had an appointment this weekend and want to mess that up?
I've linked food poisoning with her before, not so much through the issue that I get sick as the timing of the sickness. It almost always interferes with major plans or events - such as starting new jobs. In the past, within 2 weeks of new work, I've had to deal with food poisoning, stomach cramps, the runs, and a new position; I’m a teacher and can’t just step out to the bathroom whenever I like, much less every hour or so. This has occurred with regularity and in differing spheres and makes life very difficult.
Last night, I cooked pan-grilled pork shoulder myself and had a handful of beers and some Pringles. She shared the pork and isn’t sick. The meat was good, so where'd this come from? I've eaten nothing in the past 12 hours that I can think of that would cause it, and I’ve spent the last 3 days almost completely in my workshop and only eating a meal at breakfast.
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Couper, yes, the exasperated airs drawing me to question or help is a regular event, thin ice which I now skate over quickly with the expectancy of problems.
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Muttering, yes. Comments half heard as aural hallucination leading directly to a plausible denial. That's also skimmed over now.
It's clear or I didn't hear. Period.
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Putting herself in harm's way - is that open to interpretation?
She doesn't drive a car, ride a motorcycle, or ride a bike as her physical coordination doesn't sync up with or match her environmental input.
Same for catching or throwing things like a tennis ball or bunch of keys; she can't do it - not even close. She couldn’t play Dodgeball and not get hit, and would have problems catching the ball or throwing it at people - it’s a perceptual issue.
Perhaps because of this, she avoids situations that require involvement in a physical process involving gross motor coordination with a moving environment. Even crossing the road can be a problem.  
Way back when I didn’t know any better, her first time riding a motorcycle as pillion with me was terrifying. Although she used moto-taxis regularly to get around town, she had no clue what to do and wouldn’t take advice. These days, I’m Driving Miss Daisy if she’s on the back, and I’m constantly expecting the entirely unexpected.
So “being in harm’s way” is perpetual for her, but it’s from an unusual source.
However, she has the sense to avoid a shower of sparks if I’m grinding something in the workshop and can effectively see what’s coming in relation to where she’s standing and what I’m about to do, and she can clear the area right behind the bike so I don’t hit her as I get on it.
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Aside from the physical coordinative side...
- She’s socially suicidal and absolutely cannot sustain social contact over time. This is harmful to us both. There are a handful of people she communicates with through Messenger services, including her family, and everyone else is avoided, commented about, sniped at, and avoided.
Forget good relations with the neighbours - it’ll never happen.
- Until very recently, and for a decade or more, she was entirely financially dependent on me, and still has no medical insurance, pension arrangement, and nothing much of any savings. The constant fights over this have been more harmful to date, perhaps, than the fear of the future outcomes.
Is this putting oneself in harm’s way?

[Red22]

I recognise this from the 'Early red flags you ignored' thread.

- Continual and increasing snipes at my masculinity because I didn't want to dominate and control her (devaluation, and dependency).

This behaviour has no upper limit in its scale.
She'll step further and further into this area until she's acting like a full-on Alpha lesbian in attack mode.
Devaluation I can see, but dependency? How does this connect to dependency?

[Couper]

The food poisoning thing is really scary and, if correct, completely unacceptable.  Does it clear up on it's own each time, and after the same period of time from when it begins?  Just thinking out loud about something you may have around that wouldn't seem out of place in the home, would be hard to detect, and would generate the symptoms you describe -- I wonder if it's a laxative?  

It's interesting the perception issues you describe.  Mine is a terrible driver.  Partly because she regards any well-intentioned instruction (re: any self-improvement exercises in general) to be a personal attack, so I gave up on helping her with her driving years ago.  The other part may be that she genuinely has perception issues.  It is hard to tell.  She only knows what she can see and has no comprehension that her back wheels trail her, so they hit curbs and drop off in ditches when making turns.  Someday I expect her to get creamed on the interstate because when everybody else is doing 70mph, she's doing 45mph... and "they should all be going slower".  

I can see some of what you shared as perception and I can see other things as being self-sabotage which I would think can be a type of putting one's self in harm's way.  I'll throw a third one in there that you can see if it fits.  Ever heard of Dunning-Kruger Effect?  Mine definitely has that going on mixed into everything else, but I can't say if that's a BPD thing or something separate, but it definitely doesn't help matters any.

I like your, "It's clear or I didn't hear it".  I try to enact that whenever possible but it's hard to be "on the ball" all the time.

I've experienced two things the last couple of days that made me think of this discussion.  Yesterday she, my son, and I were at the table eating during the afternoon.  I was picking on him for his "bed head".  We bantered a little while she was off in space (she very rarely has play-type interaction with the kids like I enjoy doing).  That interaction passed and several minutes later I went out on the porch and then I hear her laughing hysterically in a fit of giggles and I just had this feeling that it was bait to get me to come back in, so I stayed put.  It went on for some time and I haven't heard a reaction like that to anything in a few years.  Later I asked him what that was about and he said his "bed head".  She was totally absent for the whole exchange when I was present, but as soon as I leave it turns into a very over-the-top giggle fit?  He looked that way all day, not like she saw it for the very first time.  Odd.

The other was today.  We went out at sunup to light our very big burn pile (that's the first time she has been up that early since I can't remember when).  While I'm going back and forth to two positions stuffing cardboard and trying to get it lit, each time I move she is right on my heels.  It's a hard task because I have to climb in, get tangled, it's raining, etc.  There nothing for her to add but each time I stumble out and back to my feet she's in my path just making things harder.  Later, part of the process is as the middle burns down, going around and pulling the stuff from the edges that won't burn, untangling it from the tall grass so I can mow around it, and throwing it in.  The heat is intense, so you have to keep your face down, yank out the branch, swing it around behind you and toss forward without looking up.  She's right on my heels again in harm's way when any rational person would be standing at a distance if they wanted to watch.  I can only see peripherally while doing this and I think something finally whacked her and she moved back a few steps, but still directly behind me as I went around and not to a safe distance.  No point in saying anything because I know it's an attention grab and saying anything will just reinforce it or give her an opportunity to argue.  This went on with other things during the process, too.  I've gotten to the point that for pretty much anything I just prefer to work alone.      

[Red22]

The food poisoning thing is really scary and, if correct, completely unacceptable.  Does it clear up on it's own each time, and after the same period of time from when it begins?  Just thinking out loud about something you may have around that wouldn't seem out of place in the home, would be hard to detect, and would generate the symptoms you describe -- I wonder if it's a laxative?  

I live in subtropical southeast Asia. Much like India, it's not difficult to find a bad stomach here. As I said, it's the timing of events that gives it away. I very rarely get sick here these days as I know the score locally.
Antibiotics are always needed - Flagyll is the name. I don't bother with the doctor any more; it's always the same. New staff want to go for a beer somewhere, a get to know, but I'm on antibiotics.
It's been 4 days now and it hasn't cleared up, so I'll be starting them today or tomorrow.
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I had a second job interview this morning. The first interview was way back in February - it looks like first choice moved along after the first term.
I had a call about it out of the blue yesterday and told her last night.
There was something salty on my breakfast this morning, a homemade jam affair with no need for salt; thanks for taking the time.
I didn't eat anything further, inexorably leading to a fight as I left the house. I didn't play the dodge it and tiptoe game, just shot her between the eyes with it and left the building.

1. Eat the offered, messed-up food, you're weak and framed as emasculated, scorned, derided, mocked.
2. Don't eat the messed-up food and there's a fight because she went to the trouble of making it.
3. Say why you don't want to eat the messed-up food and there's a round denial, angry rebuttals, a snarling face and a long fall into a day or more of fighting.

I chose number 3 above, and immediately left the house 90 minutes early; I got my sh1t together last night and hit the kitchen this morning already ready to leave.
It's pointless even being here expecting anything normal to happen. I avoid all but breakfast, so she destroys breakfast.
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There was no reaction later when I told her later that I got the job - blank expression .
She said, "I don't know what happened to you this morning".
I said, "Nothing happened to me this morning", and quickly, calmly and completely ducked the bait, and went to make some lunch - a pile of cheese on toast.
I went back and asked her if she wanted some and saw the old Z, a tiny, frightened, personality looking at me with relief and as if to say thank you.
She came to eat, and, within moments, after a few bites sitting at the table, returned to the aggressive nightmare Z. I'd capitulated, she'd won.
There's no win for me here; it's a loss in every direction. Staying is a loss, leaving is a loss, fighting or not are both a loss, keeping to another part of the house is the best option, but then I'm weak and avoiding, so I lose. Utter stupidity.
I'll be on antibiotics for the next 10 days or so - the new job starts on the 14th but with a few training days before that.
I'll be working from home and teaching online - upper secondary through to university aged adults. It'll be a relief to be working again.
If I can juggle her attacks around maintaining classes, that'll be a start.
I need to look at my workflow and see what's vulnerable. It doesn't help that I'll be on camera as they're all synchronous classes.
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Dunning-Kruger, yes, I've heard of that. She is university educated, has 5 languages, and works a professional office job dealing with large amounts of money and heavy responsibilities re care of others in very vulnerable conditions. This is not a case of dealing with a 'stupid person'.
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I haven't seen dissociation to that degree. She gets dreamy, but is not absent.
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Yes, working alone is far more productive. It's less stressful, there's no argument or fighting, I don't need to consider what may or may not be going wrong or happening with her, I can get far more done, and, most importantly, I get a break from her.
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But, to flip to her world,  my working alone is effectively giving her more time to play video games and watch YouTube, because a day off work equates to a day off the responsibilities of life, which means she wins, and I'm weak because I let it happen, so therefore I'm not a man, so I lose, and she gets to mock to rub my nose in that loss.
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Fight and lose.
Don't fight and lose.
Avoid and lose.
Don't avoid and lose.
Blend any aspect of any approach in any amount to any shade grey and lose.

[Red22]

Here's today's gem.
10:25, Friday, 4th June.
She just finished her Friday Zoom meeting; I was in an adjoining room ironing my laundry.
First, and very clearly, she asked her immediate, local boss for permission not to return to work in the office, but to continue working from home - her reason being that she's not sure what will happen here if she's not here.
That got my cogs turning. It would be a far calmer and better place to be if she were not here.
A short while later, and she's speaking to higher management, an Australian, and the volume of her voice rises to the point I can hear very clearly, as before, and she's saying she thinks I'm manic depressive. Her boss replied with "If he is manic depressive, there's a good chance he's going to be saying things about you." followed by a resigned, sighing tone, "Ok, well..." and I lost the thread.
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'Intermittent reinforcement' be damned, after the meeting ended, I went into the room and asked her if she would be returning to work in the office. I did so with a very long and direct gaze. She met my eyes, sighed, and said, "No, not yet". I continued the gaze a long time and she stared right back at me.
I turned to leave with nothing more said, got 5 paces away, and she let out a "Yes!" as a loud unvoiced whisper - the type you'd shout if your team scored. I kept walking away.
I need to add here that I just got a new job; I'll be teaching online from home very soon - 14th June. Induction begins Monday, 7th.
She's arranging to be here during my working hours.
She is entirely cognisant of what she is doing.
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Re her story to management, this is 'painting black'? This is definitely social sabotage. This is also a deliberate provocation right in my face, and as usual is designed to lead to a pitched fight over what's said, or a 'devaluation' over my refusal to fight - both of which will wreck the day.
Hey, guess what - it's fight weekend again. Not wreck the day - wreck the weekend.
I should have kept out of the house.
Last weekend I ended up on antibiotics, this weekend I'll have her workplace junk story rattling around my skull and with no beers to take the edge off.
In the house and it's fight weekend - out of the house and my head's mashed.
There is no win.
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A pertinent question to me now is, how does my ability to give her behaviour a label, to pigeonhole it in terms of a description others understand in the same way, and to communicate to others what's happening here make this stop.
How does my reading pages and pages of information here stop her?
I could do an MA in Psych101, be armed with all the terminology, be aware of all the possibilities, permanently walk around carrying a bagful of coping strategies, but how does that stop her?
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I will still be walking into the room not knowing which of a thousand of those strategies I'll need to pull out of the hat in a heartbeat and implement successfully, then switch - on the bounce - to any number of other further strategies of any concurrent combination and number, pulling that off successfully, then sit there - drum tight in expectation of another walk off the edge of the world, while she swings in a hammock like some Roman Emperor lazily throwing random sh1t my way and in full knowledge of what she's doing.
I will still be walking on eggshells.
My life will still be a minefield both at home and outside of it.
What's the use of spending so much time to label this if I'm still getting blown up anyway?
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In the last few weeks, I've found this online resource - it's incredible what's been made available - and I've found this community - it's incredible how open and expressive you are - and I've found that none of it is any concrete solution.
If anything, now I can see that there is no end to this. What was my own marital problem has become a well-defined, well described, well understood series of behaviours that is known to have absolutely no end.
Of all this information, and of all this chatter, what will make her stop?
Of everything I can learn about psychiatry here, what will make her stop?
For all my talking and reading, and this nightmare Psych topic sucking away at my so much of my time and my life, what of my efforts will make her stop?
From what I can see of answers to coping strategy questions here - none of it will.
None of it will.
The best any of this can provide is a conversation about terms of description of the nightmare.
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You guys are probably just as pissed as I am, and just as stressed, and just as trapped, but how does this stop them?
Much of this forum reads as if someone farted in the room at a wine tasting event, and everyone's spending hours learning how to describe the fart because opening a window to chase it out is impossible, so talking while standing in the middle of a fetid stink is all anyone can do.
I want to know how to open the window and chase it out.

[Red22]

I tried to edit / modify a paragraph, but the forum software won't let me.
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Here's the modification.
'Intermittent reinforcement' be damned, after the meeting ended, I went into the room and asked her if she would be returning to work in the office. I did so with a very long and direct gaze. She met my eyes, sighed, and said, "No, not yet". I continued the gaze a long time and she stared right back at me.
I turned to leave with nothing more said, got 5 paces away, and she let out a "Yes!" as a loud unvoiced whisper - the type you'd shout if your team scored. I kept walking away.
I need to add here that I just got a new job; I'll be teaching online from home very soon - 14th June. Induction begins Monday, 7th.
She's arranging to be here during my working hours.
She is entirely cognisant of what she is doing.
I can fully expect an attack on my employment.
This is not the first time she has attacked my employment; I can track that back to 2008.

[Cromwell]

Hi Red22

Doing much better thanks the unwelcome visitor was a big problem to solve and inconvenient but its resolved.

Its great to see your doing some reflection based on the new material

I was wondering about the change of taste of food. Could be linked to the infection. Could be linked also to other conditions both physical and psychologically derived.

At the worst stage of 'play' to continue the point scoring game analogy, i recall taking a bite of turkey sandwich and could not taste anything at all. Not sure why.

Today i get paid to taste samples for the food industry. Try to journal some of this {here if you find it convenient}. It could be useful insight to your own state of health.

Her disorder is a moot point? You told me before that there is no battle. Anymore. So why did you continue the gaze for a long time? For her to then signal another point scored.

Sometimes in life its appropaite to stand up and overthrow the table and have a tantrum of our own. Then get the hell outta dodge.

I think your due yours. Controlled explosion. Keep stable and build up the diary. You have only so much energy conserve it, endurance not sprint.

I hope you hold on to the vision of a better life that each day getting closer to achieve. No more chinese water torture slow erosion.
Do it before you get ill, is my friendly advice.

I can give links to the correlations of deleterious health outcomes of members if that helps? It sobered me up. I took it as warning claxxon to kick disorder out. My life is not stressed today for those reasons.

When was the last time you had a good time out, with friendships, laughter, joy, that sorta thing. Own hobbies? Im asking to encourage self appraisal of the damage. Sometimes in the midst of it can get lost. Focus on the escape tunnel, even if one day amounts to a spoon only of soil. You came here because I presuppose you made the decisive choice to leave, not to. Fix. If you want to stay and try the tools maybe the bettering part of this board would assist better?

[Red22]

She's going to work in the office from next Monday.
Now I wait for the 'extinction bursts', which I suspect will come from a distant sniper.

[Couper]

Last night I was reading yet another something somewhere about BPD that I'm sure we have all seen before that, "we can't force change on others, we can only change ourselves".  Along those lines, I'm sure in the generic sense we have all heard, "You can't help someone who will not help themselves".

From what you have said, she is not willing to help herself.  However, you have gone out of your way to study, understand, and seek to find a solution to this horrible solution you have at home.  I'm a believer that there is a solution to everything and that even when it seems like there is not it is just because we have not yet cast a wide enough net.

On the 23rd you made the comment that you have the option to leave but you were not yet at that point.  Where do you stand with that today?  I hope I'm not running afoul of the rules here by asking that, but it is merely an inquiry as to your comment.  It is clear that you have put forth a yeoman's effort in trying to find a solution, and there is a solution and there is hope, I'm just suggesting that perhaps the solution is something you have not yet considered.  If you choose to change course, you have not failed.  Failing (or quitting) would have been throwing in the towel without having put any effort into it.  Your efforts are noble -- you have not failed.

You mention spending a lot of time in your workshop and it sounds like you are working metal, so I think we speak the same language.  I have spent my whole life in various skilled trades mostly revolving around machining, welding, and fabrication and spend about 16 hours per day in my own shop.  Today most of what I do has extended into other unconventional areas and revolves around saving artifacts.  There is this notion that everything can deteriorate, be rebuilt, deteriorate again and go through an endless cycle of being saved.  Even I used to think this, but what you learn after you start handling these damaged goods is each time a little more of the base material has to be removed to get to a solid foundation and then replaced with something else.  When finished, it may look new and unblemished on top, but the substrate has changed and how you care for and handle it must change also. 

I've started thinking people go through similar cycles in their lives -- our base material gets chiseled away, we repair ourselves, and we can look new on top, but our perspective has changed, the empathy we extend to others has changed, but most importantly we must change how we handle ourselves.  Be a little more forgiving to oneself, but also protect oneself from the elements that cause the deterioration.  For those of us that do this work, we're hardwired to repair things (not just tangible objects, but everything in our lives), but maybe it is best to exercise preservation before conservation is needed.  I think it's okay to be a little selfish and look out for you.  There are lots of other wonderful things going on out there in the world and it's okay to want to be a part of that rather than what you're suffering with at home. To me seeking those things is at the complete opposite end of failure.     

[GaGrl]

She's going to work in the office from next Monday.
Now I wait for the 'extinction bursts', which I suspect will come from a distant sniper.

I

What happened that changed her work arrangement?

[Red22]

18.42, Friday, 3rd June
First up, I need to begin by reminding that my contributions here have been based around daily events in my life since joining. I had no idea of where to start in this forum as the list of dysfunction at home is so long. Journaling helps me, so that's what I wrote here.
What I've done is link each day's behaviours to the past and give a little background of prior similarity of behaviours. We're barely scratching the surface so far.
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Today's second (forum) journal input is to share that my wife identifies 2 different ways.
One is Z, my heterosexual wife, and the other is "Jo March", a character with sexual identification confusion from classic literature.
She has twin social media accounts for these characters and there are clearly two people living with me in this house.
In the past few years, I've been dealing far more with Jo March than Z.
Jo, here in my marriage in 2021, is an aggressive, domineering lesbian.
Back in 2005, when I first met Z, Jo was invisible. The fighting began around 3 months after we got married.
Jo is the driving force in my marital issues. It's Jo that argues endlessly. It's Jo that matches the lists of behaviours above. The problem for me, especially these days with being stuck at home, is Jo.
.
After 15 years of marriage and fighting, 16 years together, and perhaps 5 years of knowing about Jo, I took Jo on today.
For Cromwell, this is changing my behaviour to suit - well said.
For the first time, I ventured onto her ground and controlled her there.
I don't like it one bit.
.
Couper mentioned controlled violence; that's where I went.
I took it in stages.
I suggested her working from the office so as not to interfere with my work and was mocked.
I strongly suggested the same and was mocked further.
I told her straight to go to work from the office as I knew she would repeatedly attempt to mess up my work, and Z appeared, saying it's not safe due to Covid and she's scared.
I shouted and told and saw confusion, but no agreement.
I got close, roared from a foot away, and was mocked by Jo.
I shoved, pushed, and roared from an inch away and saw Z scared and heard Jo commenting.
At this point, Z was in a defensive posture, arms up to protect her head and looking scared as can be, while the comments she was making were derisive and mocking what I was saying.
I switched from physical to mental at that point, continued shouting, and said I'd learned what was happening, and described what she had been doing using terminology from this forum. Z was crying buckets, Jo repeated 'devaluation' with a haha, and 'painting black' with a wooh, again, mocking.
I got closer, touching faces and still roaring, saliva, snot, sweat, everywhere pushing and shoving into a corner, I'm 6foot and 220 pounds, and Jo disappeared.
I backed off and Jo said she'd think about going to the office.
That started my first 'recycle', and I did it all again.
I left Z sobbing in a corner.
Committed and totally freaked out, I walked around outside for 5 minutes and then went back inside and started the whole deal again from the first, sane, calm and collected suggestion of working from the office.
Jo looked at me in confusion, said she'd think about it, and I started again - the whole thing.
Then I went for a walk again.
Then I restarted again from calmness.
Then I went for a walk again.
Jo still wouldn't agree to go to the office from Monday.
After the third walk, I switched it up and threatened her laptop instead of her. Shouting and raving, I sized up swinging it against a doorframe and Jo quit immediately, agreeing to go to work in her office.
.
What did I learn?
Jo doesn't back down until we're riding right on the wire.
Z is scared for her own physical safety, Jo is not.
Z will back away from violence, Jo will not.
Z will move to physically protect herself, Jo will mock.
Z is confused by intense aggression, Jo is not.
Z will not escalate while in a physically threatening situation, Jo will escalate with amusement.
Jo has knowledge of psychiatric technical terminology.
Jo values the laptop much more than her own physical safety.
Z dissociates when under intense attack.
.
Cromwell again, I'm a teacher, would I believe, in shame.
I find solutions, give second chances, develop ways through, cope with problem students, have endless patience, and grow new people.
New day - new start is the best foundation for all that. But I can see now not with Z.
.
Coupler, my workshop is perhaps 20 square meters. I'm relearning bronze brazing, which I used to do as a teenager working on an old-style light engineering shop floor - mum was a QC and I went there young.
.
My marriage has been over for years. I need to detach from this fugly mess, and I need to survive the detachment.
We have no kids. A medical examination in 2007 showed that she has a mioma blocking conception transit and which is only removable with a hysterectomy.
Cromwell again, this is part of my basis for saying I can leave; we have no kids.
Also, this is not my country. Z is not from my country. Leaving here would not technically be leaving home. However, this house and neighbourhood has become home; I've been here a long time. Some of this year's crop of uni grad students were or have been students of mine since grade 6. Others graduated years ago. Many more are undergrads, policemen, shop assistants, whatever. I know their parents and I'm known well here. This is home in that way. This is also security in that way. I'm known. That's my shield in this place. She's poisoning that.
I have a new job in a school less than a mile from home. Start Monday - kids start in one more week.
That's what I'm protecting, and that's why I don't leave.
.
Here's the new normal, feels like utter sh1te.

[Couper]

I'd like to clarify that I haven't used the term "controlled violence", nor have I advocated taking any physical measures.  Looking up the actual definition, it is the furthest thing from how I handle situations in my home.  I am clear and absolute, but I do not raise my voice or take an aggressive stance.  Even when she is flying off the handle, I am conversational and if she gets aggressive, I tell her that I am removing myself and we can revisit things when she has settled down.  My response to any of her antics (as best I can in the heat of the moment) is to remain completely nonplussed.  However, I do not under any circumstances capitulate with the hope of buying momentary peace because it will not happen, and history has shown that it will only embolden her.

With respect to this alter identity of "Jo", my wife apparently went through a phase of the same thing but in a different way.  It came and went (I think went) before I came along.  She used her alter identity to become the heroine version of herself to right the wrong from her childhood that she cannot fix herself.  None of what her alter identity did happened anywhere but on paper, yet this baggage she still carries around was also not resolved.  I can't imagine having to deal with "Jo" on top of everything else this horrible condition brings to the table and for that you truly have my sympathy.  Thank you for sharing it to further put your situation into context.  

[Sappho11]

You mention spending a lot of time in your workshop and it sounds like you are working metal, so I think we speak the same language.  I have spent my whole life in various skilled trades mostly revolving around machining, welding, and fabrication and spend about 16 hours per day in my own shop.  Today most of what I do has extended into other unconventional areas and revolves around saving artifacts.  There is this notion that everything can deteriorate, be rebuilt, deteriorate again and go through an endless cycle of being saved.  Even I used to think this, but what you learn after you start handling these damaged goods is each time a little more of the base material has to be removed to get to a solid foundation and then replaced with something else.  When finished, it may look new and unblemished on top, but the substrate has changed and how you care for and handle it must change also. 

I've started thinking people go through similar cycles in their lives -- our base material gets chiseled away, we repair ourselves, and we can look new on top, but our perspective has changed, the empathy we extend to others has changed, but most importantly we must change how we handle ourselves.  Be a little more forgiving to oneself, but also protect oneself from the elements that cause the deterioration.  For those of us that do this work, we're hardwired to repair things (not just tangible objects, but everything in our lives), but maybe it is best to exercise preservation before conservation is needed.  I think it's okay to be a little selfish and look out for you. 

What a beautiful analogy. Man, this is true poetic wisdom. Couper, you should write a book.

[Couper]

What a beautiful analogy. Man, this is true poetic wisdom. Couper, you should write a book.

I sure don't feel worthy of such kind words but I'll gladly accept it as "Praise from Caesar".  

[Red22]

I was dreading reading this page today.
Thank you for not becoming a firing squad. I'm sure that is coming from some quarter sometime, but thank you for that not being today.
.
Couper, my apologies for the misattribution.
Cromwell, my apologies for the misquote.
Yesterday was my choice, neither of your suggestion.
.
Agreed with Sappho11.
.
Couper, I'm relearning brazing by repairing fences. Doors are next - all the doors in this place are steel with a glass pane and are heavily barred, most having rusted out to some degree at the bottom. I have a perhaps 20m first-floor balcony railing that has rusted in part, with sections becoming unsafe.
I started from scratch by refurbishing and redecorating an empty spare room around 6 months ago.
The language barrier around technical terms for brazing tools and materials was the first hurdle. Then finding the correct shops for the torch, pipes, gas and bottles, etc. This is an undeveloped country that doesn't have the hardware store outlets or equipment availability I'd have back home.
Figuring out which unknown white-powder / rocky chunk of flux was the correct temperature for anonymous yellow metal rods found at random was fun. I spent 2 weeks trying to match a gas flux to tig brazing filler before realising what rod it was.
Next was flux removal and cleanup, which I'm still working on; wet and dry with elbow grease works best, but is painfully slow.
After that, I built / brazed my own welding table by balancing long pipes on stacks of books and rolls of sandpaper on old wooden and rattan tables until I had a frame, straightening pulls out by eye and by hand as I had nothing to clamp or reference to.
I still have no chopsaw, everything is handcut with an angle grinder and filed to fit. This is intentional as I'm aiming to build bicycle / green transportation peripherals and active seating stations for classrooms and home, and want to brush the rust off the pipe notching and fitting skills.
I'll move to Tig and mma when I can properly flow a brazed joint and drop a smooth and regularly sized  fillet inside a 90' angle first time, which I'm not far from now.
I'm copying the original railing design of 25mm square 1.5mm section box profile pipe in mitred square within mitred square, framed, and separated by verticals.
After a heck of a lot of practice and more burn blisters than I'll admit,
I've almost finished the first complete panel. I've no idea how to fit the panel by brazing, and there's
18.5m to go, but the ball is rolling now. It took the past week to make the panel, and 6 months to get to being ready to do that.
.
In retrospect, and below a conscious level, I'd already identified doors and fences as areas needing attention, and had started rebuilding boundaries and re-fencing unsafe areas.
I'd also returned to what I did at a safe point in my life, working with and learning from 100 time-served apprenticed blacksmiths all older than God, and with family in charge of quality control.
And I'd started looking at a greener future away from my current situation.
I'll keep teaching in future as it's the best job in the world, and there are plenty of part time options, but I'm wearing thin these days and can see I'll not have the personal resources on tap much longer. At 54 years old, I can still swing a chance at growing something else to do without quitting entirely.
.
In my whole life, and I've worked in some pretty tough places both before starting teaching and after, I have never done before what I did yesterday. It's disgusting, and I'm sure every house in the street thinks the same.
.
She's retired to the spare room, as usual, with the door closed. She's made a coffee, cleaned the kitchen floor and beyond the floor immediately outside, and we're back in the silent zone again.
I'm tiptoeing around myself today.

[Cromwell]

How do you feel about the 2 personas? Was this something that surfaced during the marriage or were you aware before?

I'm conscious that she is aware of psychiatric terminology. Id consider whether it is worthwhile imputating the info you have picked up on and browdsiding her with it. The resources here are your up the sleeve trump card. If she gets suspicious it could cause issues and trigger abandonment fear prematurely.

My detachment was akin to engineering an escape tunnel and not have it discovered. It took 2.5 years to get her out my life. Its not just practical detachment of course it's complex, its a big mix as you also outlay. You want to stay where you live and work, community etc.

It felt reassuring to get a lot of 'I' statements in your journal. Its powerful. It may help also defuse conflicts and let you vent in tense times.

'I feel angry right now, im going for a walk'

Is not provoking shame or accusatory {a feeling is something we experience regardless of any judgment we post mount upon it}

And nope you are not firing squad here we dont do this to those who have put out hand in trust for help.

You shouted at her, it sounds like anger. I don't believe it is all your anger. I believe you have good reason for feeling it.

Keep us in the loop, you are doing good. To cope with what you have so far is a sign of strength as is reaching out. I believe in you and you'll get through this.

[Red22]

She went to work with no fight first.
Left 45 minutes too late, needed a reminder of the lateness, then decided to go find what she could have found last night, but left nonetheless.

[Couper]

No worries and no apology necessary.  Sorry if it looked like I dropped out.  I have been out of town for work the last 48 hours and have limited access when traveling.  I just spent a wonderful two days surrounded by mentally healthy people and would highly recommend it to anyone!  I agree with Cromwell and have been impressed by the lack of a firing squad here.  We're all going through the paces of some very complicated things and it's a welcome relief to find shelter here.

I'm impressed with your brazing project!  You are having to contend with hurdles that we don't even have to think about in the industrialized world.  It is clear that you are a tenacious sort and will persevere.  Brazing is not my strong suit.  I once had some good instruction on a heavy iron repair and the result was great, but it's not intuitive to me and when left to it alone I rarely encounter success.  MIG and TIG is not a problem and is usually the first place I start.  Here recently I bought a new inverter TIG and there is much to learn.  My old transformer machine simply wasn't capable of performing the delicate work of a special job I had come in.  Having originally learned TIG on a machine that was the size of a refrigerator, this new inverter technology is really incredible.  It does everything and more of the old machine, it's only as big as a couple of shoe boxes stacked up, and weighs a whopping 40 lbs.  It can even do 110v or 220v and it simply detects whatever voltage you plug it in to and the whole thing only cost half of what a single accessory feature would have cost on a big TIG 20 years ago.  At least welding machines are one place the world seems to continually improve!        

Keep us posted on your metalworking progress, too.  I tend to think the work we do with our hands is directly tied to the things going on in our head.

[Red22]

I just spent a wonderful two days surrounded by mentally healthy people and would highly recommend it to anyone!  

I spent the morning today with management and another new teacher on a very nice international school campus; my afternoon has given me the property here to myself.
This is the first time since March 2020 that I've been to my regular working environment, and it's also the first time in a long time that I've had time alone at home. The gates are locked, she'll call when she gets back, and it's a huge relief to have the space to relax.
Highly recommended indeed.

Tig will be new for me, and Tig brazing will be an interesting challenge. I knew stick years ago; reviewing that will be like the brazing is now - brushing off the years, finding the correct materials, and relearning.
The tech these days is amazing, as is the development of skills to match the new machinery. I'm looking forward to the progression.
I don't do the restorative work saving artifacts as you describe in that fine analogy beyond very basically fixing up old vehicles once in a while - two in the last decade have been an original gen1 Mitsubishi Pajero from their first year of production 1988, and an original CB400 Superfour also from their first year of production 1992. Getting the mechanicals working again then going on road trips can be rewarding, especially here, where so many parts need to be scavenged, adapted, or shipped in and there's such a gulf between city and countryside.

How do you feel about the 2 personas? Was this something that surfaced during the marriage or were you aware before?

I'm conscious that she is aware of psychiatric terminology. Id consider whether it is worthwhile imputating the info you have picked up on and browdsiding her with it. The resources here are your up the sleeve trump card. If she gets suspicious it could cause issues and trigger abandonment fear prematurely.

My detachment was akin to engineering an escape tunnel and not have it discovered. It took 2.5 years to get her out my life. Its not just practical detachment of course it's complex, its a big mix as you also outlay. You want to stay where you live and work, community etc.

It felt reassuring to get a lot of 'I' statements in your journal. Its powerful. It may help also defuse conflicts and let you vent in tense times.

'I feel angry right now, im going for a walk'

Is not provoking shame or accusatory {a feeling is something we experience regardless of any judgment we post mount upon it}

And nope you are not firing squad here we dont do this to those who have put out hand in trust for help.

You shouted at her, it sounds like anger. I don't believe it is all your anger. I believe you have good reason for feeling it.

Keep us in the loop, you are doing good. To cope with what you have so far is a sign of strength as is reaching out. I believe in you and you'll get through this.

‘Jo’ appeared relatively recently, and brought about an end to close relations here. Things had been rocky for a long time, but Jo’s appearance closed that door. Looking back, I don’t know if I had indicators or not - I certainly didn’t pick up on them if there were.
I don’t like it; it’s another broken article of trust and is a large-scale betrayal for me. It shows dishonesty from the outset and is an unbridgeable rift. Even talking to Jo is not talking to Z, they are very different people.
.
There’s not much speaking here at all these days; browsing would be difficult. However, I'm onto that now and will be following up as I can... if it’s not the silent treatment from Z, then of the last few weeks it’s me getting my head around the new situation of the realisation of what is or could have been actually going on.
There’s certainly anger, that’s been here for years, but now there’s a new, additional layer of it coming only from me in regard to this.
.
Thanks for your messages, guys.
It’s like having a space to breathe underwater.

[Skip]

Leaving here would not technically be leaving home. However, this house and neighbourhood has become home; I've been here a long time. Some of this year's crop of uni grad students were or have been students of mine since grade 6. Others graduated years ago. Many more are undergrads, policemen, shop assistants, whatever. I know their parents and I'm known well here. This is home in that way. This is also security in that way. I'm known. That's my shield in this place. She's poisoning that.
I have a new job in a school less than a mile from home. Start Monday - kids start in one more week.
That's what I'm protecting, and that's why I don't leave.

Red,

The marriage you are describing sounds deeply broken... and deteriorating to very unhealthy lows - on her part and your part, too. Have you read the stages of relationship breakdown:
https://bpdfamily.com/content/your-relationship-breaking-down

And while I understand that you live in a culture that is highly patriarchal and tolerant of husbands’ violence against their wives, it is nonetheless, a highly and deeply damaging act to a person (her) and the relationship. Sure, it is effective in getting her to do things you want. A gun will do that too. Do you really want to be that person?

While the two of you are focused on battling this relationships on a day to day basis, because "the other person is more abusive than I", it might be a lot more productive to look at bigger picture. Where are you two going with this? Where are you going with this?

Marriage/Divorce:

If this relationship is over, there are no good reasons to delay the inevitable. Or are there? If you both want to stick it out, it will be important to start working together - with you taking the lead (as the patriarch). If she does not want to work on it, you might be better served to shift your focus to making reasonable plans to dissolve the relationship and be civil to one another in the process.

Reputation in the community:

If this is a concern, the points above are even  more important. Being in a relationship that is as bad as yours, especially where there has been physical and verbal intimidation, it's almost a certainty that your behaviors will become public knowledge. I would think that could be harmful to you and could make you vulnerable to accusation (real, perceived, opportunistic) by others - your profession is vulnerable to that.

All said, changing the direction you are going seems critical and necessary.

What do you think? Lot's to unpack here.

Skip

-------------------

PS:

1. Can you elaborate on why you believe your wife has a second personality and that it is a gay/lesbian personality. Is there some sexual indiscretion related to this? Did she name the two personalities - or did you? 2. She says you are manic depressive (Bipolar). Is there any substance to that. Sometimes when our partner has "issues" we tend to discount our own issues. 3. As you deconstruct this (which I agree with you that it is a good idea), be careful not to pathologize everything that she does that you don't like. For example, many couples who have one partner with sleep sensitives (you) and another without (her), it can be an area of great tensions - but it is not necessarily pathological or a strategy to affect sleep deprivation - just incompatible sleep habits and the inability to solve them - which could range from carelessness to environmental constraints (small house, barky dogs, noisy plumbing).

[Red22]

Hello, Skip.That's a lot to think about; thanks for your time.

The marriage you are describing sounds deeply broken... and deteriorating to very unhealthy lows - on her part and your part, too. Have you read the stages of relationship breakdown:
https://bpdfamily.com/content/your-relationship-breaking-down

I haven't read this, but I'll take a look today. This marriage is very deeply broken and has been for years.

And while I understand that you live in a culture that is highly patriarchal and tolerant of husbands’ violence against their wives, it is nonetheless, a highly and deeply damaging act to a person (her) and the relationship. Sure, it is effective in getting her to do things you want. A gun will do that too. Do you really want to be that person?

I do not want to be that person. But I see this now as self defense. If I don't save me, who will?
.
At the very top, this is a matriarchal culture - granny is God and can do no wrong. Age has ultimate authority - nobody trumps Grandma, and extended families live together or in very close proximity. Violence is not culturally acceptable in the home or family, but that's not to say it doesn't happen. There isn't even close to the same levels of familial diaspora caused by education, employment, and the housing market as back at home, so families most often stay close together and fix their own problems.
There is no legacy of 'therapy' here nor is it widely available much outside of charities working here.

On a day to day level away from the home, yes, it's patriarchal, but with very strict limitations - this culture is not tolerant of violence at all; that's as dysfunctional and unacceptable here as in the west if not more so. Shouting as I did is looked down on, and that's a correct view imho. In fact, even losing your cool and showing impatience is a major issue in this culture, and, if you do that in public, you're socially doomed.

If things get to the point of social violence, then it's totally uncontrolled - there is no stopping it. Robbers / muggers / thieves are always beaten and often killed by a mob if caught and if the police don't get there fast enough. The same goes for 'witches' and 'crazy people', but that's rare these days.[/i]

While the two of you are focused on battling this relationships on a day to day basis, because "the other person is more abusive than I", it might be a lot more productive to look at bigger picture. Where are you two going with this? Where are you going with this?

I have been asking for a divorce since 2017 and have brought up the topic half a dozen times at least. I've seen a judge twice; he advised patience. I cannot start the process without local support, and the locals are saying, "Be patient". I've respected that for a long time, but this has not changed, and, reading this board, it's not going to change. I want out.

If this relationship is over, there are no good reasons to delay the inevitable. Or are there?

There are no good reasons to delay.

If you both want to stick it out, it will be important to start working together - with you taking the lead (as the patriarch).

She doesn't want to leave. I want this finished. I also want to keep living here. She won't listen to a patriarchal figure, she'll deride one.

If she does not want to work on it, you might be better served to shift your focus to making reasonable plans to dissolve the relationship and be civil to one another in the process.

She will not cooperate.

If this is a concern, the points above are even  more important. Being in a relationship that is as bad as yours, especially where there has been physical and verbal intimidation, it's almost a certainty that your behaviors will become public knowledge. I would think that could be harmful to you and could make you vulnerable to accusation (real, perceived, opportunistic) by others - your profession is vulnerable to that.

I'm acutely aware of my vulnerability. However, I'm very well known in this community. I have support here for a job well done for so many years.

All said, changing the direction you are going seems critical and necessary.

Agreed

1. Can you elaborate on why you believe your wife has a second personality and that it is a gay/lesbian personality. Is there some sexual indiscretion related to this? Did she name the two personalities - or did you?

Z identifies with / relates to the character "Jo March". Z named Jo. Jo is a female literary character who has sexual identification issues as a teenager. Z chose Jo many years ago, as a student at uni, and Z has seen Jo as never growing up. She's still the teenage girl who wants to be a boy. In my view, Z is living vicariously through Jo. Z sees Jo as light and bright, as the book's character. I see Jo as dark, heavily brooding, and a possible physical threat. Jo turns my wife into a silverback gorilla.

2. She says you are manic depressive (Bipolar). Is there any substance to that. Sometimes when our partner has "issues" we tend to discount our own issues.

I have no idea where I lay on any mental health spectrum, but can see that this is relationship is massively abusive. I've never had therapy or seen a psychiatrist. I've had no issues even approaching those of my marriage in the past.

Looking back at past events is always one-sided, but I can see these BPD behaviours in contribution so many past fights with Z / Jo.

3. As you deconstruct this (which I agree with you that it is a good idea), be careful not to pathologize everything that she does that you don't like. For example, many couples who have one partner with sleep sensitives (you) and another without (her), it can be an area of great tensions - but it is not necessarily pathological or a strategy to affect sleep deprivation - just incompatible sleep habits and the inability to solve them - which could range from carelessness to environmental constraints (small house, barky dogs, noisy plumbing)

I agree with the over-attribution caution, and that my personal dislikes are not a problems that lay within other people.

I'm not a light sleeper. She constantly and repeatedly allows me 2, 3, 4 hours sleep, then wakes me up. I've told her after what must be hundreds of nights, and she just does it again the next day.

With the exception of a 2.5 month period in which she left the country when her mum died, this past few weeks has been the most stable sleep pattern I've had in years, maybe a decade. Wherever I go in the house, she'll wake me up. I have no doubt it's intentional.

Today, as yesterday, I needed to wake her up at 6am for work. She was up late again last night, as always.

[Cromwell]

What do the community think of the clutter?

Does she involve you with what she is up to on the Internet?

Im suspicious of the likelihood of a smear campaign. She already projecting bipolar on to you. Was that a rare one off moment? My ex did the same. Its mendacious it is sly. It is product of disorder

[Skip]

If this is true...

Skip, we're right through this and out the other side. Stage 4 is very well established. When I first asked for divorce in 2017, we had already reached the loss of trust of stage 4.

I keep trying and keep going, but it's getting nowhere.

https://bpdfamily.com/content/your-relationship-breaking-down

and this is true...

I shouted and told and saw confusion, but no agreement.
I got close, roared from a foot away, and was mocked by Jo.
I shoved, pushed, and roared from an inch away and saw Z scared and heard Jo commenting.
At this point, Z was in a defensive posture, arms up to protect her head and looking scared as can be, while the comments she was making were derisive and mocking what I was saying.

I switched from physical to mental at that point, continued shouting, and said I'd learned what was happening, and described what she had been doing using terminology from this forum. Z was crying buckets, Jo repeated 'devaluation' with a haha, and 'painting black' with a wooh, again, mocking.

I got closer, touching faces and still roaring, saliva, snot, sweat, everywhere pushing and shoving into a corner, I'm 6foot and 220 pounds, and Jo disappeared.

and this is true...

She's still spending hours online in the corner of a spare room - 5pm onwards every night and almost all of the weekend time except basic necessities like using a bathroom or finding food.
This is not unlike Hikikomori, if I understand that at all.

She is likely in a serious, potentially dangerous depression.

There are no good reasons to delay.

She doesn't want to leave. I want this finished. I also want to keep living here. She won't listen to a patriarchal figure, she'll deride one. She will not cooperate.

So you both want/need the house and that is what is keeping you together? You're trapped financially?

[Red22]

What do the community think of the clutter?

Does she involve you with what she is up to on the Internet?

Im suspicious of the likelihood of a smear campaign. She already projecting bipolar on to you. Was that a rare one off moment? My ex did the same. Its mendacious it is sly. It is product of disorder

The local community will let me know what they think when they reach a decision, if they're even doing that. There's always a council of elders sat under a metaphorical tree somewhere watching, discussing, and deciding, but I'm not in those circles.

For the longest time, she would close up the laptop or put the phone into standby whenever I approached. Less than a year ago, I called her on that and she stopped doing it. I saw Facebook Messenger to friends and family on the phone - and random content on the laptop, sometimes work-related. She also plays simple, repetitive video games a lot.

She could be saying anything.

I don't remember having any discussions, issues, or accusation relating to psychiatry before. I remember general conversation including the topic, but always branching from the context of the moment.

[Red22]

If this is true...
It's accurate

and this is true...
It's the first time ever, also accurate

and this is true...
for years

She is likely in a serious, potentially dangerous depression.

So you both want/need the house and that is what is keeping you together? You're trapped financially?

Again, thanks for your time, Skip.

A depression dangerous in what way?
Is there a rubric or scale on which I can see the level of seriousness?
Is there anything I need to do, facilitate, or consider day to day right now?
I'm lost here.
I took control to create a space I badly needed. I need this space to be able to be employed.

Z employment and financial.
When we met and married, she had stable employment and a good income matching mine. She worked in the aid industry.
In 2007, 3 months after marrying, she quit her full time employment.
In 2019, around 4 months before the pandemic started, she found another job.
She'd basically been entirely dependent on my income since we got married.
In the interim period, she had two, short-term contract jobs. One for a fortnight organising and managing the logistics of a large, international conference for women journalists, and one advising a local charity for around 3 months.
She won't take a job that doesn't have an impressive title, an authority she can boast of, an impressive online presence she can share, or that offers a package she doesn't see as complete - she gets embarrassed if there's an element missing.
Now, she has a small income, comparatively the same as local people would get in the same position and around a third of my pre-covid income, but it has all of the elements above.
She has a small amount of savings.
Her family back home expect financial help - this is cultural.
She has 2 brothers living separately in this city.
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My employment and financial.
I'm an educator. Ive worked here continually in various schools since 2005, having a second evening job all through up to the covid shutdowns.
I've earned a reasonable salary during that time. For the past 11 years, the evening hours have been private students so have paid better than outside employment.
I took my private classes online asap, and they continued for around 10 months. The income there was around 40% of pre-covid. I had no outside employment after the shutdown.
I have financial difficulties. I have had limited to no income since March 2020, cannot access any form of state assistance, have no passive income or pension, have very limited savings left, and am extremely lucky to have landed a good job in today's employment market.
I can ask my family for financial help.
I have no direct family living here.
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The house
This is a privately rented house in a good residential development; neighbours are white-collar - military officers, government types, police officials, managerial level employees of charities, and business people. It's in a relatively quiet part of town, is spacious, as safe / secure as could be reasonably expected, and has good access to most amenities.
We've lived here since just before we got married - moved in in June 2007.
We're both foreigners here, and there are few other foreigners here.
The owner of the house lived onsite with family, but is currently in the US for medical treatment. This family have moved to live in the US over time.
Within this neighbourhood, I'm very well known as Teacher Red. For over a decade, many dozens of neighbours and their friends have been my students; I teach language in evening classes.
For the past 5 months, I have been deferring 50% of rental cost.
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Reading this, maybe I just realised why she wants the house. How did I miss that.
Could this be correct?
This is why she won't go live with either of her bothers despite everything - she sees herself in this place as a social climber, same for her employment. They are here for work and to send money to their respective families, who live at home. They live like church mice.
I've seen a person dragging around at home in holed, torn, stained clothes and shoes that would be an embarrassment to be found in my trash, eating and living the cheapest way possible right down to severe economy of living space, social contact, and basic communication, and she's seen 'a pause in career progression' and a comparably 'higher social position'.
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I want the community benefits and security of the working life I've built here, and that includes continuing to live in the house and immediate community. I don't want to start over with new neighbours in a new area.
She wants the house to maintain the outward appearance of stability and social position?

[Red22]

I didn't need to wake her this morning - she was sitting as I arrived.
She left at 07.25 after shouting about a misplaced phone charger, which she wanted to take along - "I put it right here".
I didn't try to help find it.
As she left the door of the house, she remembered that she'd left her phone indoors and went to get it.
There was a vague shadow of 'you missed that'. Or was there?
There were no messages or calls after she left.
That's better.