The Jezebel spirit behind pwBPD

[csquare319]

Last weekend I made a huge blunder in my recovery process.

My pwBPD contacted me on Friday, knowing that I was planning to bring my daughter to the newly reopened Six Flags on Saturday, she wanted to know if she and her daughter could tag along. Ignoring the little inner voice that said: " This is a bad idea", I gave in to my carnality and said yes, because I had been trying to find excuses lately to spend more time with her.

We ended up spending the entire day in Six Flags. There was some sexual tension in the beginning of the day but it slowly dissipated. She gained 20 pounds since we broke up and I no longer find her physically attractive. Still, the trauma bond within me was strong, and just spending time with her was enough to bring out all type of carnalities within myself, which I will delve into details below. The day ended with no drama, and all things seemed to be fine on the surface, as my emotions were not riled up as in my previous interactions with her. I was not reattaching to her, I still had my peace, I was going to be OK ... So had I thought.

The next day I felt unusually irritable. I lost control and yelled at my daughter for very minor transgressions. At that point I had been free from the grip of lust for over two months, during which I did not watch porn, did not fornicate, did not masturbate. I was living and enjoying this newly found spiritual freedom from sexual bondages. But starting on that day, I lost that inner peace. My eyes began to wander, looking at images I should not be looking, and fantasizing about people uncontrollably. I could sense that lust, my old nemesis, was back, and I was powerless to fight against it. One thing lead to another, as I traversed further and further back into my old ways, before I knew it, yesterday I acted out completely and watched porn on the internet, sabotaging months of good works and progress in my recovery in abstaining from sexual sins. The example or Esau throwing away his birthright for a bowl of soup came into my mind.

It's never talked about in these forums, but there is a spiritual dimension to BPD. Behind every pwBPD, there is the Jezebel spirit, whose sole aim is to search and destroy the souls of those who are after good, who genuinely desire to be free from bondage. I am not placing any responsibility on the pwBPD, as she is completely under Jezebel's control herself. Apostle Peter had warned me two thousand years ago: "Be alert and of sober mind. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour." I blame myself for the failure by not heeding the warning, and for not listening to that Voice within me, when I had a chance to refuse to reconnect with the pwBPD and spent an entire day with her. It was my choice, and I made the wrong one.

This morning I blocked her and deleted her phone number, once again I am resuming no contact. I am creating this post so that the community can hold me responsible to this commitment of NC, and also  as a warning to myself and others, that we are not dealing with merely flesh and blood, but with an evil and powerful and spirit whose sole aim is to destroy us.

[grumpydonut]

I understand you believe strongly in your faith. And that's great if it works for you.

But I don't think you can convince people to make decisions based on what you have written. There is no evidence that BPD is caused by a spiritual element. However, there is scientific evidence that it may be due to early attachment issues. I also don't think you can blame another person for your own issues with lust.

Your post screams of dichotomous thinking style that is common in borderlines. Either one is good or evil. That's simply not the case. To use your own faith "all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God".

[PearlsBefore]

It's also not fair to entirely dismiss his lived experience, as it is certainly not unique. One of my dBPDs has complained for years that SHE believes she is demonically possessed. Now whether that's true or not, I'm not commenting, I'm simply pointing out the fact she believes it would underline that there is a spiritual element to it. Here's an article, a peer-reviewed publication and a doctoral thesis...


"A person who is possessed would certainly have a lot of intense emotions, anger most likely being the strongest one. They would also have extreme anxiety and would be impulsive and could have or end up with an eating disorder and self-harm, become suicidal and violent as well. In the book Devils & Demonology In The 21st Century by author Katie Boyd, she mentions something called "negative thoughtforms" which is very closely related to mental illness and I believe in her list of the causes, she mentions illnesses. So BPD could potentially cause negative thoughtforms as well as possibly open someone up to possible possession."
https://vocal.media/psyche/mental-illness-the-demons-within-5

""The relationships between Borderline Personality Disorders and Bourguignon's "negative possession trance" which may be defined as an undesired and spontaneous altered state of consciousness in which the subject's actions are interpreted as being under the influence of an alien spirit. "
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/136346158802500101

"BorderlinePersonalityDisorder.Peters(1988)has recentlyidentified demonic possession states as cross-cultural variants ofBorderlinePersonalityDisorder(BPD).He defines a cluster of core BPD symptoms which he considers “eminently applicable to the ‘possessionsyndromes’whichoccurinsocietiesandindividuals wherepossessionisusedtoexplainthepsychologicalstatescharacteristicofBPD”"
https://open.library.ubc.ca/cIRcle/collections/ubctheses/831/items/1.0076838

[grumpydonut]

I don't see how someone believing they are possessed is related to there actually being a spiritual element. People believe a lot of things, but it doesn't make those things reality.

Those studies are interesting, but they don't do anything to prove a spiritual element to BPD. All this tends to do is promote stigma. Imagine being BPD and being told "you have a devil / unclean spirit" when the reality is "you have attachment issues caused by how you were raised, blended with a biological vulnerability to such an illness".

I'm all for having faith. I'm not for using scripture - or some quirky spiritual practices, such as exorcism - as solutions for mental illness, especially when we have proven treatments (such as DBT and, perhaps, ACT).

[PearlsBefore]

If somebody identifies as possessed, then often they need to be engaged on that level before even traditional therapies can work - muchless newer-age solutions like DBT which is, keep in mind, developed and marketed by an actual pwBPD, which has benefits and drawbacks. It may or may not be a placebo effect, but it doesn't change that ultimately there is scholastic benefit to looking at "negative possession trance" and such.

Ultimately saying "I don't believe X exists therefore it shouldn't be studied" is as much a matter of dogma as saying "I believe X exists and therefore must be the case". I'm just saying there's a huuuuuge grey area - and there's no need to stigmatize BPD caregivers for their lived experiences and beliefs just because they don't align with yours. I suspect mine don't align your own - but that doesn't mean I'm saying DBT shouldn't even be studied and attempted in cases.

Per your hypothetical example, while "imagine how it FEELS to the subject when you say..." is rarely a harbinger of strong science, I'll also point out an argument can and has been made by many a psychotherapist that some subjects would prefer to think that they're possessed by an amorphous entity rather than that they were sexually molested by a parent, etc. Different strokes for different folks.

[grumpydonut]

Yeah, I get what you're saying.

I was once apart of the Independent Fundamental Baptist Movement. So please don't interpret me as coming from a place of pure ignorance. I am likely drawing bias in based on some of the very stupid and unscientific things - which aren't representative of every Christians views on mental illness - that I heard when apart of that scene, so that's also something to note.

I would just prefer to stick to scientific facts when categorising - and seeking to treat - mental illness. I see a lot more danger in the "it could be spiritual possession" explanation than the attachment theory explanation, and I think the bulk of peer-reviewed articles on the topic would support my belief.

[Purplerain23]

Well... either way the answer is the same. Turn and flee.  The post really ends there you knew better about seeing her and you did it anyway. You can use religion, or psychology or common sense but the answer is the same.

1. Don't blame others (or the devil, or spirits) for causing you to sin. We choose to sin. we can be tempted but whether a person is possesed or not they can't MAKE us do the things you described. Influence yes. Tempt yes. MAKE ...NO... never.  It doesn't really matter what another persons evil or illness is ...its not OURS to take on...This is where codependency recovery is critically important. Learn about enmeshment . Learn about boundaries. Learn about the disease of BPD and how it effects loved ones. Pray for her and go no contact but don't use her as an excuse. Repent to God seek forgiveness and move forward with recovery for yourself. What sort of supports do you have? are you in a recovery group for Porn? Theres a lot of inner work that's required , healing and maybe even trauma  that if those issues aren't dealt with some of the other things you described may be symptoms.  Jesus wants us to be healed in his name but we need to approach this with a full understanding and not "over spiritualize everything" I do agree with both of your response @PBS and @GD . What we believe in is real to us. However the solution is the same... thoughts? 

[khibomsis]

What happened to not validating the invalid? I mean, say I believe I see pink elephants. You want to validate me and agree with me that, indeed, they are there. How is that going to heal me?
Purplerain totally with you on the importance of choice. There is no being greater than Godde. Nothing is more powerful than faith.

[PearlsBefore]

(I agree with PurpleRain that ultimately you made the choice to reconnect, and ultimately you should've known better...in fact you did, as you say, just a moment of dumb weakness I suppose - happens to all of us sometimes...but in your case it snowballed. Focus on moving forward, don't dwell on this mistake or assigning blame...just re-commit to not re-engaging with that problematic ex-partner and problematic ex-behaviors in the future. Ultimately, as PurpleRain puts it, the solution is the same either way.)

[Cromwell]

Well the experience led me to encounter {rather than proactively reach out for} a spiritual connection. I'm unfamiliar with jezebel in a religious context. I called my first car it thinking it meant lady of the night.

As a life scientist im inclined to only measure what can get crammed into a test tube. Yet embracing a spiritual connection was pivotal to healing and I don't mean to say as a result of an absence of other explanation. It just helped in the way it does best, indescribably.

[PearlsBefore]

Jezebel, essentially:

In Biblical times, the Jewish kings were rather divided, they'd pretty much alternate where you'd have 1-2 "good kings", then 1-2 "bad kings", repeating ad nauseum. King Ahab made the mistake of marrying a pagan princess, Jezebel, who encouraged him to abandon faith, to be tyrannical, and ultimately to murder somebody in order to secure herself a lovely garden. He's seen as a weak-wristed easily-whipped man who was led astray and became as bad as she was - and when he was killed in battle, and Jezebel learned the new king would be coming through the city on his chariot very soon she tarted herself up and prepared to seduce the new king...except he had no tolerance for her shenanighens and simply shouted up to her servants that he'd reward whoever threw the psychotic woman out the window. So they did.

The secular world often uses "a Jezebel" to mean a loose woman, but religiously it's more commonly used to refer to someone (male or female) who simply delights in leading others to wrongdoing, someone who plants the suggestions in your mind that you could be wealthy and powerful if only you arranged the death of Naboth, etc.