Trying to stay, but it's not just me

[Dad50]

I have been reading the Walking on Eggshells book. I am getting better about not taking ownership of my partners feelings when she lashes out. This weekend was hard. She got very upset with her daughter (maybe because I wasn't engaging in her outbursts as much). She was repeatedly calling her daughter a loser, telling her she was too fat an no one would ever love her, and so on.

I calmly told my partner that maybe she might want to go somewhere and cool off for a bit. I couldn't take her taking to her daughter like that, but also was just trying to save her from saying anything worse.

Well, I left for work. She texted me at work and told me she was upset and I needed to apologize for not supporting her. I told her I was sorry and that I was just trying to stop her from saying more stuff she would regret.

Her response was twofold.  First, she said her daughter said mean things about her so of course she had to defend herself by saying mean things back. Secondly, she said all of my family is fat so I should understand that fat people not being loved thing.  At that point I just went in the other room.

I have been in this relationship for five years, but new to trying to understand BPD. Having absolutely no remorse for saying such horrible things is so foreign to me I am having a hard time understanding. I mean, we are all human and I yell at my kids sometimes, but I know it is wrong and that I messed up. Almost immediately. How does someone say things like their daughter will never find love because they are too fat, and then turn around and expect an apology from everyone else?

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[babyducks]

welcome Dad50,  glad you joined us here and posted a question.

  How does someone say things like their daughter will never find love because they are too fat, and then turn around and expect an apology from everyone else?

I'd say its because people who suffer with this mental illness do not process the events and emotions of life the same way you and I do.   their way of working themselves through a conflict is remarkably different.

first, pwBPD (people with BPD) have harmfully intense emotions that change very rapidly.   

second, they see their emotions as being caused by others or by events outside themselves, with no belief that they have any sort of control over their emotions.

and third, they function with a belief that the only way to change how they feel is to get other people or events to change.

that was hard for me to wrap my head around until I saw my partner (now Ex) do it over and over and over again.   no matter what I did or how I did it, I was the one that needed to respond perfectly so that she could feel better.     and that isn't really how life works.     is it?

how old is your daughter and how is she doing today after that conflict?

'ducks

[Dad50]

Hey, thanks for the response. All of that makes sense. It is so frustrating because it is like looking in through some fun house mirror.  My partners daughter has gotten real, real good at submerging her feelings, and turning it on and off. I think she is isolating her daughter, so her daughter has no ally. After the whole blow up, and calling her daughter a loser, and underachiever, she went on to say that no one will do anything for her daughter except her. My partner has forbade her daughter from seeing her friends and has stopped her daughter's therapy because my partner is afraid her daughter will say bad stuff about her. Iis hard to see.

Thanks for some reassurance that I am not completely crazy. My partner can't see that she is driving people away, in her effort to make them stay.

welcome Dad50,  glad you joined us here and posted a question.

I'd say its because people who suffer with this mental illness do not process the events and emotions of life the same way you and I do.   their way of working themselves through a conflict is remarkably different.

first, pwBPD (people with BPD) have harmfully intense emotions that change very rapidly.   

second, they see their emotions as being caused by others or by events outside themselves, with no belief that they have any sort of control over their emotions.

and third, they function with a belief that the only way to change how they feel is to get other people or events to change.

that was hard for me to wrap my head around until I saw my partner (now Ex) do it over and over and over again.   no matter what I did or how I did it, I was the one that needed to respond perfectly so that she could feel better.     and that isn't really how life works.     is it?

how old is your daughter and how is she doing today after that conflict?

'ducks

[Dad50]

Oh, my partners daughter is 15.

[GaGrl]

Age 15 is a very tough year for a girl, even without a parent with a personality disorder. I feel for her.

If you have a chance for a conversation, you might suggest she talk to her school counselor. This is a way around "no therapy" and could help the young girl.

[babyducks]

Thanks for some reassurance that I am not completely crazy. My partner can't see that she is driving people away, in her effort to make them stay.

is that a conversation you had with your partner?   I am wondering how that discussion came about and how it progressed.

My partners daughter has gotten real, real good at submerging her feelings, and turning it on and off. I think she is isolating her daughter, so her daughter has no ally. After the whole blow up, and calling her daughter a loser, and underachiever, she went on to say that no one will do anything for her daughter except her. My partner has forbade her daughter from seeing her friends and has stopped her daughter's therapy because my partner is afraid her daughter will say bad stuff about her.

what kind of relationship do you have with your partner's D15?  (D15 is short hand here for daughter 15.   it protects privacy but gives some idea of who is being discussed)    the relationship you describe sounds difficult and damaging.    I like GaGrl's idea of the school counselor but as school is ramping down for the summer I am wondering about possible ways of supporting D15 in the interim.

'ducks

[Dad50]

I have told her how badly I want to stay and make it work, hoping to reassure her, but that I can't continue to be miserable and feel like I am being driven away. I don;'t have that conversation anymore because it immediately turns to why it is my fault and me having to give a laundry list of all the ways I have hurt her.  I am learning that I cannot make her see how destructive her behavior is because admitting she has done something to hurt someone would be too destructive to her psyche.

I have a decent relationship with D15, but not close because there is a lot of setting up sides and division. My partner would see it as some sort of triangulation if she ever saw me getting too close to D15. The school counselor is actually a fantastic idea. Sadly, my partner is making D15 switch high schools because she doesn't like that D15 confides in her friends and vents to her friends about her mom. She is really trying to isolate D15 so she has no one to talk to, which is scary. Long story, but D15's friend called the police at midnight one night because things seemed to be getting out of hand, and another friend got her older sister to drive to the house to get D15 out of there. I was at my home that evening. Since then, D15 is no longer allowed any contact with any of her friends and she has to switch schools.

is that a conversation you had with your partner?   I am wondering how that discussion came about and how it progressed.

what kind of relationship do you have with your partner's D15?  (D15 is short hand here for daughter 15.   it protects privacy but gives some idea of who is being discussed)    the relationship you describe sounds difficult and damaging.    I like GaGrl's idea of the school counselor but as school is ramping down for the summer I am wondering about possible ways of supporting D15 in the interim.

'ducks

[babyducks]

I don;'t have that conversation anymore because it immediately turns to why it is my fault and me having to give a laundry list of all the ways I have hurt her.  I am learning that I cannot make her see how destructive her behavior is because admitting she has done something to hurt someone would be too destructive to her psyche.

like we were talking about in your other thread; communicating with a pwBPD takes a different set of communication skills.     It takes deliberately validating what is valid.    It takes staying out of unproductive circular arguments.    It takes a higher level of emotional intelligence.     

One of the simplest communication models is:

When ____________X happens___________
I feel/think _____________________________
So I will need to ________________________.

Fill in the blank with what works for you.    Here is a simple example.

When I visit you and the dog jumps all over me
I think he is going to knock me over
So I need to ask you to either restrain the dog or meet me out someplace.

This is simple clear way to state what is going on with me.    It doesn't blame the dog for being a dog,... it opens the topic of what I need.   not to be jumped on.

can you try a simple When/I think/ I need statement?