does anyone have any advice how to 'get over' bad phonecalls/interactions

[cobwebfaery]

hi, today , two hours ago, i was interacting over the phone with my parent, and since then i have been unable to function. i just began a new better way of living today and shared that this morning with my parent.  it was about pre meal dog- walks, and post meal dog walks, and having a proper bedtime.  the parent knows i was living in some disarray etc. yet this second call, which i admit i did cancel visit to her, resulted in her acting very dismissive and sullen and deliberately ignoring what i said.  i should be no contact i am realising that.  but this non functioning why does it happen, is it a form of disassociation? its like a limbo land of misery low self esteem guilt (i upset her by telling her about my progress today, for example, and did not see her in person etc); any ideas about what it is and or how to avoid it.  sometimes i've sat doing nothing needful including eating drinking and helping my dog, for hours.  i cannot wait to go no contact now i've read my old posts and others' posts.  this website/forrum/facility is so valuable. thanking anyone in advance.

[Naughty Nibbler]

Hi  cobwebfaery:

I suspect that when you became upset about the situation, you began ruminating about it.  That script playing over and over in your head, prevented you from thinking clearly.

Congrats on the improvements you made!  It's disappointing to NOT get validation from a parent.  If this is your parent (s) general behavior, then you you can't expect validation from them.  Likely, your parent wanted to punish you for not visiting them, as they had expected.

You can validate yourself and perhaps give yourself a reward for sticking with the new habit for a certain number of days. Some people gain validation from posting on certain friendly forums.  i.e. if you are focusing on fitness, interacting on a fitness app. can be a good source of validation.  I'm sure there are some forums on goal tracking and organizing things.  Like minded people, sharing similar goals can be a great source of encouragement, support and validation.

When you are bothered after an interaction with your parent, perhaps you can journal about it, then pretend you are closing up those thoughts in a lock box, and then forget about it.  Once you quit expecting something your parent isn't capable of (at least in some situations), then you can more easily process your feelings. 

One thought to embrace: No one can make you feel bad, without your help. So, cancel the negative script, lock it away and seek validation elsewhere.

An alternative to no contact can be limited contact.  If your parent doesn't handle cancelled visits very well, then try your best to not commit to a visit, unless you are sure you can make it.  If it's a maybe on your part, you may not want to mention visiting.  If your parent does well with spontaneous visits, then, on some occasions, you might wait to call and offer to visit.

[Koala323]

 @cobwebfaery - I feel the same after calls with my bpd parent.  I'm definitely still working on moving through these distressing interactions, but a couple things that have helped me are to:
1. do a Radical Acceptance worksheet before,
2. to grade myself after on the interaction.
3. save time before and after to "fill my cup."

Here's a bit more detail:
Part 1 - radical acceptance worksheet.  This helps me to remind myself that I can't control my parent's mood or how they will respond.  Only what I say, my tone, and how long i talk.  Here's the template:
1. What happened in the upsetting situation/event?
2. What past events led up to this?
3. How were you involved in the development of this situation?
4. How were others involved in the development of this situation?
5. What part of the situation do you have control over?
6. What part of this situation do you NOT have control over?
7. How did you respond/react to this situation?
8. How did your own response make you feel?
9. How did your own response make others feel?
10. How coul dyou have responded differently to this situation?
11. If you had radically accepted this situation instead of reacting, how would the outcome be different?

Part 2: Grading myself.
I'm learning a whole new skill set for communicating with my parent, and balancing sympathy/empathy/truth with my own needs, boundareis, etc and accepting the lack of good parenting I'm receiving right now.
It's ridiculously taxing and exhausting.  So, I've gamified it.  When I respond well to something (like change the topic gracefully), I give myself a point.  And, when I don't respond well (frustration enters my tone), I make note of that.  It's helping me to stay in the moment/be mindful/not get completely sucked up into her crazy, emotionally flooded universe.

Part 3: I just anticipate that I will need time to prep (sit down, do my worksheet, take a nap) before seeing her and to wind down after (oddly, I love to take a shower after encounters with my parent to calm myself down).  I can't give if my cup is empty so it's important I'm filling my cup.

[cobwebfaery]

thank you for taking the time and trouble to reply.  i like your ideas.  i think i am usually acting from a place of unconscious anger or else i would have explained my not going round nicer . 

i think the reason i'm beyond filling my cup and the sort of sheets for asessment you describe is that depression is a factor, and at teh time of writing am low low contact, .

[pursuingJoy]

cobwebfaery, I'm sorry you're dealing with depression. The non-functioning you describe could absolutely be a result of the depression.

I'm so glad you discovered a new routine - keep it up, I want to hear more about it! Your mom can't be excited for you, but we can. 

Sharing about your new routine after canceling a visit to see her likely triggered her abandonment issues. I would be delighted that my daughter developed a new self-care routine, AND that she called to tell me about it! Your mom is unable to get beyond her own pain. You're not responsible for how she feels. It's ok to protect yourself and not share special things like that with her, only to be treated badly.

Are you ready for no contact, or does low contact with boundaries feel doable?

[Methuen]

two hours ago, i was interacting over the phone with my parent, and since then i have been unable to function.

I can relate.  I've had these conversations too, but I am now better at using distraction strategies to get back to baseline sooner:  go for a walk, volunteer, go to work, go on my treadmill/do my exercises, or do a hobby.  Anything, but ruminate about the incident.  Avoid that.  Ruminating (thinking about it and replaying it over and over) is not helpful for our mental health in any way. And it allows them to get inside our head.  Not good.

Is it possible she thinks you should be spending time meeting her needs (talking on the phone or with her in person) instead of walking the dogs?  I'm wondering if that is part of what could be going on here?  Or, is it that she isn't supportive of your personal goals to live healthier?

any ideas about what it is and or how to avoid it?

 Here are my offerings:

- don't share personal things about yourself such as goals, friends, activities, or recognitions you've received from others.  She probably can't handle that, for any multitude of reasons.  My mom told me early in my career she didn't want to hear me talk about my work.  I can only guess it was because it wasn't about her, or it wasn't about things we did together.  She was jealous I had a career and she didn't, even though she was the one that made it possible for me to get a post secondary education.  But once I had a job in my career, it didn't leave me much spare time to spend with her.  The last thing she wanted to hear about was the job which kept me busy 8-12hr/day, and left no time for her.  I'm wondering if this is similar to how things went for you when you shared your healthy living goals?

- Another reason not to share personal information, is because they will tuck it away, and find a completely unpredictable and nefarious way to use it against you at a later date.  Especially avoid talking about your romantic life, finances, and any concerns or issues with your children (if you have kids). Also maybe avoid religion and politics - especially if you have different points of view.  I just avoid everything personal to be safe.  We talk about her favourite subject -her.  Also the weather, current events - basically any neutral subject.

- Another reason not to share personal info is because they can use it to demean you or otherwise hurt and humiliate at a later date.  "You didn't get your dog walks in today?  See - you never finish anything you start!" Or, "I knew you wouldn't be able to do it!".  Those kinds of put-downs are not helpful, and the last thing we need to do is give them ammunition.  The less we volunteer personally, the less ammunition we give them to hurt us.

I want to say congratulations on starting a new better way of living.  Walking with your dogs and getting enough sleep are super healthy and ways to feel better and live healthier.  Whatever she said to upset you, I hope you are feeling better now that some time has passed since that conversation.  

Could it be that she can't see herself doing either of those things?  Misery loves company, so if she can't or won't do them for herself, maybe she doesn't want you to do them either?  Is that a possibility?

I set goals to live healthier about 10 years ago.  I've had lots of ups and downs, and health problems, and even long interruptions from my exercise and sleep routines.  It didn't go smoothly, but I kept going back and starting again, and each time I made a little more progress.  Ten years later, I'm physically stronger (even though I've aged), and although sleeping can still be a challenge, I sleep WAY better than I used to.  You are doing the right thing and making great decisions.  Stick with it Cobwebfaery.  Let her make her own choices for her.  Let you make your own choices FOR YOU.  Self-care is essential to healthy living and good mental health.  We are here to support you!

[Notwendy]

I think the suggestion to not share personal (emotional) info with the BPD parent is good. I do this too. We still talk, but I don't share any information that might come with any expectation of emotional support, understanding, or privacy- things I care about that might have emotional content for me. So I can talk about a book I read and not care what her response might be. But sharing that you are trying to take better care of yourself is something you care about, and so her response can bother you.


Your experience is common I think. I know I have experienced it as well as other family members when interacting with BPD mom. On one hand, she can act so concerned " I am your mother" and then if you do open up to her, she can be cruel and dismissive.


You can go NC or also LC - where you stay in contact but your personal information isn't shared. Each situation is different so you choose what works best for you.

[modusoperandi]

lift weights, and do tabata sprints

[Woolspinner2000]

I like what NotWendy shared here:

I think the suggestion to not share personal (emotional) info with the BPD parent is good

When we have been raised by a pwBPD, so many of us experienced what we'd call emotional incest. It's the need to share everything, quite literally, about our lives with our parent. For me it then transferred over to needing to be that open with almost everyone else because I didn't know otherwise. It was my norm in life. I would feel guilt if I didn't share, guilt if I did. This was also clearly a part of my unhealthy marriage, and my exH expected the same for communication.

On one hand, she can act so concerned " I am your mother" and then if you do open up to her, she can be cruel and dismissive.

You're exactly right, Not Wendy. I had to learn to set some healthy boundaries for myself and not share everything. I remember so many times when my T would say, "Don't engage." So we would talk about things that were safer and I wouldn't talk long with my then H but would find something else to do. If you ask them about themselves, that can be tricky too because you can get caught in the long obligation feeling of 'I have to listen.' Having something to do like modusoperandi mentioned is good:

lift weights, and do tabata sprints 

Needing to go exercise (and maybe with a friend so you can say you have an appointment) is a good reason to escape.

Wools

[zachira]

You are sadly describing a familiar scene for many of us who post on PSI: a mother with BPD who constantly invalidates her children, whether in the moment the child shares good or bad news, or at a later time uses information she knows about the child to invalidate him/her. The advice others have given to not share any personal information with your mother is spot on. You are wondering if your mother might be disassociating. I believe you are curious about how your mother can suddenly be so mean and attack you without warning.  I believe we cannot truly understand a person who out of the blue suddenly treats another person cruelly. This is especially confusing when you are sharing good news and the person you are sharing the good news with is your mother. The best advice my therapist ever gave me was to focus on my feelings when in the presence of a disordered person and not the other person's. Following this advice has helped me to move on more quickly. It seems that disordered individuals often know how to keep finding more ways to invalidate others, especially people who are close family members and others who challenge their unacceptable behaviors. I never cease to be shocked at the next round of cruel behaviors of my disordered family members. It helps me to talk with a trusted friend and describe what happened. Normal people will tell me that the way I was treated is hurtful and unacceptable. The enablers of dysfunctional people will always find an excuse for why their mistreatment of others can be justified, like they are having a bad day, or accuse me of somehow being the problem. I find it helps to share how I was treated and get my feelings validated by a caring person, and then I move on. We have many members on PSI who have been here for years sharing how they feel about the latest round of invalidation from their mother with BPD. We are here to help and welcome hearing from you at any time. Congratulations on taking some key steps to improve your self care. By valuing both your mental and physical health, you will find ways to feel better and feel less like a deer in the headlights when being suddenly devalued by anybody.