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Author Topic: Where to even begin with describing this.  (Read 727 times)
nocontrol

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Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Fiances
Posts: 6


« on: June 17, 2021, 11:22:51 AM »

I've got note after note after note on my phone, on my computer, on my reddit, in my heart, trying to empathise, sympathise, even just communicating with him. It's the same age old story, your SO goes from being the most empathetic, wonderful, perfect person to the complete opposite. A seemingly perfect day can go to hell the second they decide. "Communicate with me", and when you do, "Why are you doing this to me, why are you manipulating me."

Two years it's been like this. It's about to be three in January. I want years and years and years with him, I want the rest of our lives together, and I know BPD isn't forever but how many more times can I handle this stonewalling.

We met on reddit two years ago. He had just broken up with his ex of 4 months, it was his first relationship actually, and she was the kind to go to a party, not tell him anything all night, take drugs that she promised she wouldn't take, then go back home to her ex that she definitely doesn't still sleep with. Already it doesn't bode well. When I met him, he quickly recognised my empathy, my extremely similar interests, and my high sexual drive, amongst every other facet about me. It made for a fast bonding, and then came the sleeping together at night over the phone, 24 hour calls every single day, and legitimate friends with benefits relationship. Through all this, the verbal abuse and gaslighting was extremely prevalent of course, every day it was something different. It took him about 4 months to finally drop the act and "ask me out". One of the happiest days of my life. It only happened because I collapsed from low blood sugar over being depressed, hitting my head, and slipping into a coma.

I could go on and on about our stories and scars together, like me telling everyone how he spoke with me and kept me awake for 7 hours, and doing nothing BUT that to make sure I didn't fall asleep and die, then when he learned I slipped into the coma that night, he stayed with me for the days I was gone, singing to me, talking to me, easing my fears of where I was, what I saw. I could also tell you about how when I had just gotten raped actually a few weeks ago, one of the things he said the next day was how none of this would have happened if I had just screamed, and that I should go eff my rapist.

What I really want to talk about is how out of control I feel. Nothing I do is correct when he's going through an episode. There is nothing I can do to help him out of it. He'll even say he's intentionally keeping himself in it, to make sure I don't like to him, or manipulate him again. There is just nothing I can do till he decides otherwise. It's so much easier to not say anything about my issues with him, because then at least I won't have been the one to cause his episode. If I don't communicate, why did I bottle everything up and not deal with issues as they happen. If I do communicate, how dare you try to manipulate me. I just can't ever be right. I'm just so tired. I love him and he doesn't give a crap. I'm just so tired of having to be perfect to invisible rules.
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« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2021, 10:49:54 PM »

first and foremost, grieve the relationship you had.

it wasnt sustainable, and it was built, in part, on fantasy and idealization. not just him, but both of you.

this is true for all of us and all relationships, by the way, and really has nothing to do with bpd.

eventually, the rubber meets the road. whether a relationship is built to last depends on what happens next.

Nothing I do is correct when he's going through an episode. There is nothing I can do to help him out of it. He'll even say he's intentionally keeping himself in it, to make sure I don't like to him, or manipulate him again. There is just nothing I can do till he decides otherwise.

understand that when it comes to bpd, this is a hallmark and a feature, not a bug.

there arent magic words when someone is in a state of dysregulated emotions. to some extent, trying, can be denying who a person is, or, for that matter, who we are. perhaps in the past, you have talked him out of it. perhaps in the past, he has told you something like no one has ever helped more than you. generally speaking, a person in a dysregulated emotional state simply has to return to baseline. there are things that you can do not to make things worse (and i encourage you to learn them). but they will always be a feature (not a bug) of your relationship. if you are willing to accept that, what is far more important is the bigger picture of your relationship, and the overall relationship security you both feel. you love a difficult and highly sensitive person, and they will be difficult, but the way the two of you handle that difficulty is far more important in terms of overall relationship stability.

i understand that you came here for hope, and that exists, but only with facing the hardest parts of our relationships head on.

things can absolutely improve, but that comes with support, and, typically, some change in approach. our loved ones often (not always) follow our lead. its important to know that when we do, things can often get worse before they get better (if you try to introduce dramatic change into a relationship with anyone, it will cause a backlash, its human nature), but they can get better.

your relationship will not return to what it was in those 4 months, except perhaps, fleeting glimpses. thats okay. with direction, leadership, and support, it can become even stronger than that.

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     and I think it's gonna be all right; yeah; the worst is over now; the mornin' sun is shinin' like a red rubber ball…
nocontrol

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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Fiances
Posts: 6


« Reply #2 on: June 17, 2021, 11:46:01 PM »

first and foremost, grieve the relationship you had.

it wasnt sustainable, and it was built, in part, on fantasy and idealization. not just him, but both of you.

this is true for all of us and all relationships, by the way, and really has nothing to do with bpd.

eventually, the rubber meets the road. whether a relationship is built to last depends on what happens next.

understand that when it comes to bpd, this is a hallmark and a feature, not a bug.

there arent magic words when someone is in a state of dysregulated emotions. to some extent, trying, can be denying who a person is, or, for that matter, who we are. perhaps in the past, you have talked him out of it. perhaps in the past, he has told you something like no one has ever helped more than you. generally speaking, a person in a dysregulated emotional state simply has to return to baseline. there are things that you can do not to make things worse (and i encourage you to learn them). but they will always be a feature (not a bug) of your relationship. if you are willing to accept that, what is far more important is the bigger picture of your relationship, and the overall relationship security you both feel. you love a difficult and highly sensitive person, and they will be difficult, but the way the two of you handle that difficulty is far more important in terms of overall relationship stability.

i understand that you came here for hope, and that exists, but only with facing the hardest parts of our relationships head on.

things can absolutely improve, but that comes with support, and, typically, some change in approach. our loved ones often (not always) follow our lead. its important to know that when we do, things can often get worse before they get better (if you try to introduce dramatic change into a relationship with anyone, it will cause a backlash, its human nature), but they can get better.

your relationship will not return to what it was in those 4 months, except perhaps, fleeting glimpses. thats okay. with direction, leadership, and support, it can become even stronger than that.



So, whennI wrote this I was extremely down and didn’t come across as how I normally am. I accept those parts of him. He is difficult, he is sensitive, but trying to talk to him about these things, I can sense it either hurts him, and he can manage it long enough for the discussion to be over, or he can let it progress into an episode. I want to pearn the things that will make it not worse, but it seems every day those rules change and obviously that’s also the BPD, but how can I help him not get triggered if I can’t even follow the rules. The only consistent one I can think of maybe is to just never present an issue I have with him till he asks, but that can happen either once a month or never, meanwhile he’ll continue to do the things that I take issue with. I want to give him the support he needs to get stronger, but how can I provide that when he won’t even take it?

We have a couple’s counselor, I’m trying to find him a personal therapist for him (he lives in England, I’m in America. We’re waiting on a visa to get him here), but it’s hard to find someone who will not just work with someone with BPD, but also in another country. He has a DBT workbook that he says is too much work for him right now, but it’s always too much work for him it seems, and of course, I understand this one, but I am obviously always available to talk. But it’s harder talking to your FP sometimes than someone else, and again, I truly get that.

He has self reflection abilities, and sometimes he’ll be right on the money when it comes to what bothers me, but these moments are ONLY when he wants, and INCREDIBLY rarely when I mention them. When I mention my issues, he can incredibly easily fly off the handle and it’ll be unnecessary pain for both of us for days. It feels like even communicating is sensitive to him. He’ll ask me to communicate but when I do so he’ll find issues with how I’m doing so, even if I’m adhering to every rule he has. I become his enemy. We’ve started to record our arguments, and he can even choose to interpret the recordings the way he needs to to enter an episode, the selective hearing.

Maybe I presented my story wrong, but I don’t WANT our relationship to go back to those first 4 months, it was terrible then. In ways, it’s a lot better now, but at the same time a lot worse. Every day he gets ammo to do something worse to hurt me. And I don’t know how to stop him from taking advantage of me like that.
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« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2021, 07:53:43 AM »

Maybe I presented my story wrong, but I don’t WANT our relationship to go back to those first 4 months

i understand. these are just things that are vital for everyone in these relationships to know going forward - things i wish i knew at the time.

Excerpt
how can I help him not get triggered if I can’t even follow the rules.

generally speaking, you cant help him not get triggered, and once he is, you cant help him get untriggered. you cant necessarily help the frequency with which it happens.

that may not be what you want to hear (i wouldnt), but the thing is, understanding that will actually, ultimately, free you up a great deal. trying to do those things generally makes things worse for you, and for him.

the things that you are describing - him flying off the handle, saying hurtful things, a hesitancy or unwillingness to engage in therapy, workbooks, what have you - these are hallmarks of a bpd relationship. they are things most members here are dealing with, to one degree or another.

certainly, there are ways in which we may trigger our loved ones that we can be more conscious of. for example, invalidating in words, tone, or body language is a common one. another is learning to understand when things have reached the point of no return, and how to step back when that happens, rather than things getting worse. there are many things most of us do to contribute, can be more conscious of, and improve on, but they are things that at the end of the day, you unlikely have a lot of control over. trying may be what we refer to as "walking on eggshells", and this will only exhaust you.

in that regard, there are a lot of dos and donts when it comes to loving our difficult, and highly sensitive partners. id encourage you to dive into the resources here, and to practice them here - you can also practice them in your daily life, i dont have anyone with bpd in my life currently, but i use them with everyone, all the time. they can feel awkward at first (one of the most common problems i see is that learning the communication tools tends to look more like using "therapist speak", comes across as condescending, and your loved one will see through that), but like any skill, you can master them with practice.

this is a good place to start, there are a number of tips throughout this workshop: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=62266.0
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     and I think it's gonna be all right; yeah; the worst is over now; the mornin' sun is shinin' like a red rubber ball…
nocontrol

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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Fiances
Posts: 6


« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2021, 08:34:09 AM »

i understand. these are just things that are vital for everyone in these relationships to know going forward - things i wish i knew at the time.

generally speaking, you cant help him not get triggered, and once he is, you cant help him get untriggered. you cant necessarily help the frequency with which it happens.

that may not be what you want to hear (i wouldnt), but the thing is, understanding that will actually, ultimately, free you up a great deal. trying to do those things generally makes things worse for you, and for him.

the things that you are describing - him flying off the handle, saying hurtful things, a hesitancy or unwillingness to engage in therapy, workbooks, what have you - these are hallmarks of a bpd relationship. they are things most members here are dealing with, to one degree or another.

certainly, there are ways in which we may trigger our loved ones that we can be more conscious of. for example, invalidating in words, tone, or body language is a common one. another is learning to understand when things have reached the point of no return, and how to step back when that happens, rather than things getting worse. there are many things most of us do to contribute, can be more conscious of, and improve on, but they are things that at the end of the day, you unlikely have a lot of control over. trying may be what we refer to as "walking on eggshells", and this will only exhaust you.

in that regard, there are a lot of dos and donts when it comes to loving our difficult, and highly sensitive partners. id encourage you to dive into the resources here, and to practice them here - you can also practice them in your daily life, i dont have anyone with bpd in my life currently, but i use them with everyone, all the time. they can feel awkward at first (one of the most common problems i see is that learning the communication tools tends to look more like using "therapist speak", comes across as condescending, and your loved one will see through that), but like any skill, you can master them with practice.

this is a good place to start, there are a number of tips throughout this workshop: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=62266.0

He likes to give me rules to not trigger him, but he doesn't realise that he changes them every time we speak. Every single thing he does because of his BPD, he accuses me of, and that incredible double standard is unbearable to me recently. I'm even thinking of giving him an ultimatum, but maybe I'll find something new that will help. But even with that I'm so weary, because it's like he destroys every new technique I try. I speak to him gently if he's getting angry, saying something akin to "I know this situation is extremely frustrating, but I'm so proud of you for trying to control yourself," or "You've gotten a lot better at this particular thing!" or "Thank you for being conscious of me, and stopping yourself from calling me names", I could go on but you get the picture. He doesn't even respond to calls of disengagement, which I exercise like "I really understand your frustration right now, and I believe you have points I agree with, but I'm finding it difficult to process my emotions right now/I believe we should clear our heads so that we can re-engage and discuss the issue, is that okay?", with paraphrase for different times. Now he just keeps going, even through that. I've resorted to just say I will not check this further and just actually leaving the IM, but he'll just continue it later by calling me and forcing me to pick up. His anger has gotten so bad that he asked me if I know how to make a bomb, and he spent an hour looking at the google maps street view of the building he wants to blow up.

I'm having to keep myself together, and him, while dealing with the extreme out-of-control feelings one gets from being raped. I'm physically, and mentally, and emotional tired. He even made the rape completely about him. I don't mean to vent, you've given me lots of great advice, I'm just. I need to feel in control right now. I just don't. And even if this one gets fixed, he'll do this again the next time he flies off the handle, then forces himself deeper into the episode. It feels like no escape. It feels like I HAVE to engage with him otherwise I'm going to get pictures of him cutting himself, threatening to kill himself, cheating on me, any number of things.
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« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2021, 09:08:58 AM »

Excerpt
But even with that I'm so weary, because it's like he destroys every new technique I try.

remember: there are no magic bullets, especially when things reach the point of no return. youll exhaust yourself with this approach.

Excerpt
"I know this situation is extremely frustrating, but I'm so proud of you for trying to control yourself," or "You've gotten a lot better at this particular thing!

support is good. do be careful that what you say isnt perceived as talking down to him.

Excerpt
"Thank you for being conscious of me, and stopping yourself from calling me names",

this, for example, can work better.

everything takes some trial and error, and very much depends on the context of you, your partner, your relationship, and the every day language that the two of you use with each other. sincerity and being natural are probably the two most important things, although some of the things that we naturally do can be invalidating.

Excerpt
I'm having to keep myself together, and him, while dealing with the extreme out-of-control feelings one gets from being raped. I'm physically, and mentally, and emotional tired. He even made the rape completely about him.

are you saying that he has raped you? if so, i sincerely cannot overstate how difficult this is/would be to heal from. therapy and support would/should be a huge priority, and this would take precedent over anything else going on. safety and trust are vital, and if he has raped you, if there hasnt been a full accounting and effort on his end to get help (even with that, such a thing would be difficult to ever "repair"), there are no such things.

Excerpt
It feels like I HAVE to engage with him otherwise I'm going to get pictures of him cutting himself, threatening to kill himself, cheating on me, any number of things.

there are two issues here.

1. disengaging is, at times, necessary. the difficult thing is that when youre dealing with a dysregulated person, disengaging can heighten their emotions (fighting or lashing out is a connection, on some level, and may feel preferable to handling those emotions on their own, but this is something they are ultimately capable of doing, and can be incentivized to do. generally speaking, the longer it has gone on, the harder it will be to change, but it can be done) and they will tend to up the ante to keep you engaged. that sounds like its going on, and to an extreme. the thing to know, is that when it "works", it teaches our loved ones that they can get the desired result. the less it "works", the less likely they are to try it, and more incentivized to use a healthier options.

the tricky thing is, as i said, these are pretty extreme things hes resorting to, and youre caught in a bit of a rock and a hard place.

2. a relationship in which you are held hostage cant work; something will have to give. ive spoken of limits and limitations, and ultimately, you will need to decide if this level of acting out is a deal breaker for you.

have the two of you spoken, in a time of calm, about those examples, how they affect you, how they affect the relationship, whats driving him, that sort of thing?
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     and I think it's gonna be all right; yeah; the worst is over now; the mornin' sun is shinin' like a red rubber ball…
nocontrol

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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Fiances
Posts: 6


« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2021, 09:24:54 AM »

remember: there are no magic bullets, especially when things reach the point of no return. youll exhaust yourself with this approach.

support is good. do be careful that what you say isnt perceived as talking down to him.

this, for example, can work better.

everything takes some trial and error, and very much depends on the context of you, your partner, your relationship, and the every day language that the two of you use with each other. sincerity and being natural are probably the two most important things, although some of the things that we naturally do can be invalidating.

are you saying that he has raped you? if so, i sincerely cannot overstate how difficult this is/would be to heal from. therapy and support would/should be a huge priority, and this would take precedent over anything else going on. safety and trust are vital, and if he has raped you, if there hasnt been a full accounting and effort on his end to get help (even with that, such a thing would be difficult to ever "repair"), there are no such things.

there are two issues here.

1. disengaging is, at times, necessary. the difficult thing is that when youre dealing with a dysregulated person, disengaging can heighten their emotions (fighting or lashing out is a connection, on some level, and may feel preferable to handling those emotions on their own, but this is something they are ultimately capable of doing, and can be incentivized to do. generally speaking, the longer it has gone on, the harder it will be to change, but it can be done) and they will tend to up the ante to keep you engaged. that sounds like its going on, and to an extreme. the thing to know, is that when it "works", it teaches our loved ones that they can get the desired result. the less it "works", the less likely they are to try it, and more incentivized to use a healthier options.

the tricky thing is, as i said, these are pretty extreme things hes resorting to, and youre caught in a bit of a rock and a hard place.

2. a relationship in which you are held hostage cant work; something will have to give. ive spoken of limits and limitations, and ultimately, you will need to decide if this level of acting out is a deal breaker for you.

have the two of you spoken, in a time of calm, about those examples, how they affect you, how they affect the relationship, whats driving him, that sort of thing?

He has not raped me, it was a stranger that did, but some of the things he has said and done made me feel extremely revictimised, every single day. The rape happened about a month ago now, it is extremely fresh. Right now he is trying to reverse some of the things he did or said, but it's not perfect. I also feel bitter because he promises me things like "everything will be about you, I can keep myself stable", but then when I expect that, I don't get it and instead he revictimises me. He makes ME feel crazy for expecting the things he promised, then he blames it on me using the twisted logic.

I try very hard not to make him feel like I'm patronising him, sometimes I'll even say that out loud, that hey I'm so sorry I feel like what i said made you feel like a kid, I didn't mean to do that, and he responds very well to those obviously. Validation, as expected, makes him feel good. But how can I validate him when he says everything we are fighting about right now is my fault. I also understand that that's a difficult question for you to answer, because the reason why he's saying that can be something EXTREMELY minute to the rest of us, and to know that you'd have to know every bit of history we have, and the entire story, and even then it'll be something as simple as "oh he didn't understand what you said in that one sentence and he felt helpless and so now he believes it's your fault."

We have spoken about it, and he will apologise for the things he said, he'll say if he gets angry then it's on him, and not on me, he should never ever take his anger out on me, and if he does that's something he has to control, he understands he makes me feel like I have no control, he understands he makes me feel like I'm not his equal, etc. To combat some of those, like for example the equality in the relationship, during times of idealisation, he will call me his pet names for me, make me feel very taken care of, and then say and reiterate that I'm his equal, even though I'm his baby love (excuse the gushiness). He'll then ask me to say "I'm your equal" a couple of times, and physically squeal because it makes him so happy to hear me have autonomy and equal power. Now imagine how great that can feel coming from a partner with BPD. Now think of the literal opposite of that, which are some of the things I've described to you, and you have aptly recognised as extreme things he is resorting to. We've even spoken about how he has moments/times of receptiveness, and that's when I should present my issues to him, but sometimes even during a supposed one he will break. Then accuse me of all the things he is doing. He even went so far as to saying that he's not even sure he has BPD, because all the symptoms of it can be attributed to me as well (they can't).
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