first time at trying boundaries with mom- not good

[Our abuse recovery guide]

I have not spoken to my mom in almost 3 weeks. this is excruciatingly painful, she takes everything the wrong way.  I don't even think she knows who I really am, only a version she has decided I am and it's not nice. I am 58 years old and have been married for 32 years, my husband has always told me there is something wrong with her but I always feel like I can change her if I say or do the right thing. I have realized that I will never be able to do enough for my mom. There will always be more she will expect and she never appreciates anything I do for her.
I don't remember her being bad when I was little but she was horrible to my dad. He was awesome and would just let things roll off his back, he loved her and she was very lucky to have him. He died when I was 24 , I got married when I was 26, that is when I really feel like she got worse. she would get jealous if I had a friend and would want to do everything with me, especially after I had my kids. My husband and I had some marital problems, she tried to get me to leave him and live with her.  We worked our problems out but she would always tell me I should leave him. My husband would get so angry because almost every day I would tell him about my mom calling , getting mad, yelling at me and then hanging up on me- I would cry- almost every day!
I guess I am a slow learner and I think a lot of my awareness came when my children grew up, we have a terrific relationship, they get to be who they want to be, voice how they feel and we may not agree with everything but that's ok. I treat them like the adults they are, and even now, at 58, my mom does not want me to believe or think any different than her and if I do, I get yelled at, told that I am her daughter and i should agree with her and she didn't raise me this way. We are both Christians but I have more open views on everything and she thinks I am a horrible Christian.
My husband and I own apartments and we have offered my mom and stepdad a wonderful apartment with a garage for free. (my poor stepdad is abused and just stays quiet in fear of her) they can't keep up with the house and large yard they have, they are 80 and he has cancer. a few months ago, for the first time, I tried to set up a boundary. I told her I was tired of getting yelled at and hung up on so I will no longer chat on the phone, if she has something to tell me that's fine but no more talking about nothing on the phone because it usually leads to her yelling and hanging up on me. I told her instead I would come over every week and help get her house cleaned and packed for the move and talk, I am usually there for 6 + hours. Everything was fine and then I guess she decided to be offended by my boundary. I called her to invite her to my sons new house and she started screaming about not being able to call me and how hurt that makes her.  she ended up bawling like a baby , coughing and carrying on for drama and put the phone down so she can say that she didn't hang up on me. so I hung up the phone and have not spoken to her for almost 3 weeks. My stepdad was in the hospital so I called him an he told me my mom said that she will never call me because I told her that she couldn't call me anymore. She's 80- do I call her or just let her make that choice, whatever it is. Oh, and now she told my brother that she is not going to take the apartment because she doesn't want me to have something to hold over her- he said, like what do you think she's going to do but then she yelled at him and screamed tell me I am a good mother until he said it to her. Luckily both of my brothers understand and she will not be able to turn them against me. sorry for the long story. Do I wait for her to call? let her live the consequences of us renting out our apartment or call her and at least ask her?

[LittleB]

I have not spoken to my mom in almost 3 weeks. this is excruciatingly painful, she takes everything the wrong way.  I don't even think she knows who I really am, only a version she has decided I am and it's not nice. I am 58 years old and have been married for 32 years, my husband has always told me there is something wrong with her but I always feel like I can change her if I say or do the right thing. I have realized that I will never be able to do enough for my mom. There will always be more she will expect and she never appreciates anything I do for her.
I don't remember her being bad when I was little but she was horrible to my dad. He was awesome and would just let things roll off his back, he loved her and she was very lucky to have him. He died when I was 24 , I got married when I was 26, that is when I really feel like she got worse. she would get jealous if I had a friend and would want to do everything with me, especially after I had my kids. My husband and I had some marital problems, she tried to get me to leave him and live with her.  We worked our problems out but she would always tell me I should leave him. My husband would get so angry because almost every day I would tell him about my mom calling , getting mad, yelling at me and then hanging up on me- I would cry- almost every day!
I guess I am a slow learner and I think a lot of my awareness came when my children grew up, we have a terrific relationship, they get to be who they want to be, voice how they feel and we may not agree with everything but that's ok. I treat them like the adults they are, and even now, at 58, my mom does not want me to believe or think any different than her and if I do, I get yelled at, told that I am her daughter and i should agree with her and she didn't raise me this way. We are both Christians but I have more open views on everything and she thinks I am a horrible Christian.
My husband and I own apartments and we have offered my mom and stepdad a wonderful apartment with a garage for free. (my poor stepdad is abused and just stays quiet in fear of her) they can't keep up with the house and large yard they have, they are 80 and he has cancer. a few months ago, for the first time, I tried to set up a boundary. I told her I was tired of getting yelled at and hung up on so I will no longer chat on the phone, if she has something to tell me that's fine but no more talking about nothing on the phone because it usually leads to her yelling and hanging up on me. I told her instead I would come over every week and help get her house cleaned and packed for the move and talk, I am usually there for 6 + hours. Everything was fine and then I guess she decided to be offended by my boundary. I called her to invite her to my sons new house and she started screaming about not being able to call me and how hurt that makes her.  she ended up bawling like a baby , coughing and carrying on for drama and put the phone down so she can say that she didn't hang up on me. so I hung up the phone and have not spoken to her for almost 3 weeks. My stepdad was in the hospital so I called him an he told me my mom said that she will never call me because I told her that she couldn't call me anymore. She's 80- do I call her or just let her make that choice, whatever it is. Oh, and now she told my brother that she is not going to take the apartment because she doesn't want me to have something to hold over her- he said, like what do you think she's going to do but then she yelled at him and screamed tell me I am a good mother until he said it to her. Luckily both of my brothers understand and she will not be able to turn them against me. sorry for the long story. Do I wait for her to call? let her live the consequences of us renting out our apartment or call her and at least ask her?

[Methuen]

I always feel like I can change her if I say or do the right thing.

You can't.  It's a personality disorder. Most therapists can't.  I had one counsellor once who told me BPD was the hardest illness for a T to treat.  

I am 58 years old and have been married for 32 years, my husband has always told me there is something wrong with her but I always feel like I can change her if I say or do the right thing. I have realized that I will never be able to do enough for my mom. There will always be more she will expect and she never appreciates anything I do for her.

Yes yes

 

I got married when I was 26, that is when I really feel like she got worse. she would get jealous if I had a friend and would want to do everything with me, especially after I had my kids.

This is a typical pattern.  The way I see it, your getting married would have been a loss to her, because may have felt she was losing her relationship with to someone else (your H).  When the kids came along, her piece of the pie (ie. time with you) got even smaller.  This could be why when you had marital problems, she tried to get you to leave him - and live with her - it would have met her emotional needs to have you back with her full time.  Just a theory - based on BPD - do you think this could "fit" with your situation?

my mom does not want me to believe or think any different than her and if I do

She sees you as an extension of her.  When I was a kid, my mom "put me in" all the activities she would have liked as a child (dance and piano).  And I had to excel at them to make her look good.  The dance didn't fly, but I obliged her with the piano, until I left home and decided that wasn't what I wanted to do for the rest of my life, and changed careers.  It's an important step for us to "differentiate" from our BPD person, and feel free to be our own self, and feel our own feelings, and not feel theirs for them.

The boundary scenario you described sounds like a really difficult situation.  They are in their 80's, can't keep up with the house, your father has cancer, and you are offering them a free apartment with a garage.  This is a generous gift!  Yet your mom refuses and is angry and taking her anger out on everyone around her, including your sick father. How awful.  I see similarities with my own mom. She was impossible when my dad was ill with Lewy Bodies disease.  One of my solutions has been to stop giving advice.  When she tells me her problems or wants me to solve them, I respond by asking validating questions such as "what do you think"?  If you try this, don't expect it to work in the beginning.  It's a process.  It takes time for her to adjust to thinking for herself.  But eventually she will, after she has calmed down (which could  take weeks or months depending on your dad's illness and how that turns out). The other thing that could be going on here is "control", in a few ways.  One, it's your idea (not hers) to move into the apartment. Is there still a way to make this "her idea?" Two, it's a gift, and BPD's in my experience also have to settle a score and "pay back".  While I can't say if this is a factor in your situation, I know there is no way my mother would accept a gift like this.  She wouldn't feel worthy of it. And she couldn't give something equitable in return.  I'm rambling here, but BPD is complicated, and there is no way to know what is driving their irrational behavior. However, if she has made up her mind not to take the apartment, I would let go of this idea and stop talking about it completely.  Instead, try asking her validating questions to nudge her to solve her own problems.  This takes patience.  Try these links:
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=273415.0
https://bpdfamily.com/content/communication-skills-dont-be-invalidating
 


 

[Naughty Nibbler]

Hi LittleB: 

Sorry about your situation with your mom.

Just sharing one opinion.  I would inform both you mom and step-father of a deadline for a final decision about the apartment. Perhaps, give them a week i.e. I need a final decision by next Saturday.  If I don't hear from you, I will assume you don't want to live in the apartment.

Since you were willing to let them live in the apt. free of charge, perhaps there is another angle.  Rent out the apt. to someone else, then perhaps contribute some money to pay for assistance for your mom, at her current home.

Regarding boundaries with your mom, you have to enforce them.  Your mom isn't likely to change, so when she starts getting angry and ranting, you need to say something like:

AT HER HOME:  "Sounds like you are having a bad day, so I'm going to leave now.  I will return on a different day, when you feel calmer and a peaceful visit is possible"

ON THE PHONE:  "Sounds like you are having a bad day.  I need to let you go now.  We can talk on another day, when a calm conversation is possible"

She either gets with the program, or you keep leaving early during visits and keep having very short phone calls.  After a period of time, she may try to change.

Has you mom ever been in therapy?  Maybe she needs someone to vent to.  You mention that she is a Christian.  Maybe some counseling via the church might be helpful.  Maybe she needs a refresher on a Christian prospective.

[Choosinghope]

Hi LittleB,

I treat them like the adults they are, and even now, at 58, my mom does not want me to believe or think any different than her and if I do, I get yelled at, told that I am her daughter and i should agree with her and she didn't raise me this way. We are both Christians but I have more open views on everything and she thinks I am a horrible Christian.

This part really caught my attention. I had a similar yet slightly different situation with my mom, and I was talking about it to my T last week. She looked very concerned and asked me if I realized that it was spiritual abuse. I shrugged and said, "No, it's just my mom." She talked a little more about spiritual abuse, and that was the first time I realized that it is a legitimate and very damaging strategy, not just "oh, that's my mom." My mom's big attack was, "I know you're a good person, but I don't think you're really a Christian. If you were really a Christian you would be/wouldn't be doing X." My T talked about how that's one of the biggest forms of manipulation and control because for most people, their spiritual beliefs are so important to them. Just wanted to throw that out there as I just learned it recently and it seemed to relate.