I just got back from breakfast with my lady friend… And I’m a bit perplexed.

[formflier]

So if you are thinking about texting in a "day or two"...pic the longer of the times you think are "right"...and maybe reach out.

Best,

FF

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[Mr. Kelly]

So if you are thinking about texting in a "day or two"...pic the longer of the times you think are "right"...and maybe reach out.

Best,

FF

Well… If I texted her tomorrow mid day and asked her if she wanted to go out for a pizza with my kid and me, that would have been probably 36 hours after I saw her last… Hopefully not enough time to piss her off even more, but enough time for her to chill a bit. Me too.

I’m a little hesitant to invite her out for pizza, since that is a little more like a “date”, and a little more family oriented, which is going to seem a little more aggressive on my part, I think.

I would almost just as soon ask her to go out for another walk, but it’s supposed to be raining steadily here for the next couple of days, and then she’ll be working again.

[formflier]

Revisit the idea a few posts ago of raising two different things.   That way if one of them doesn't work she can grab the one that works.

"hey..was going to check out the pizza place tonight, if that doesn't fit your schedule I planning on XXX on Tuesday"

Hey...why not skip either of those ideas and invite her to fireworks?

Best,

FF

[Mr. Kelly]

Revisit the idea a few posts ago of raising two different things.   That way if one of them doesn't work she can grab the one that works.

"hey..was going to check out the pizza place tonight, if that doesn't fit your schedule I planning on XXX on Tuesday"

Hey...why not skip either of those ideas and invite her to fireworks?


Best,

FF

Love the idea of presenting multiple options, and extra love the idea of going to fireworks, which is on Monday here… But I think there’s a strong likelihood she will be working that night.  If not, there’s a good chance that she may already have planned something with her friends.

Typically, she plans things with her friends, and if she feels like it, she invites me. There’s almost never been mutuality when she makes plans. She makes them for herself, and I am somewhat incidental in that process.  The times that I have had other things I wanted to do have fallen backseat to her intent. If she wants to do it she does it, regardless if I want to do it or not.  Thankfully, that typically only happens about once a week, but now that I think of it, in the last two weeks it was becoming common.  That’s not typically reciprocated. She would probably be not happy if I was making plans with my friends once a week and not giving her any input.

Great ideas… Thank you, and keep them coming… :-)

She has a brand new job that is turning out to be much more stressful than she thought, which I’m sure has contributed to this split.  She is working more than is humanly healthy.

The last time she split was just a few weeks before she started this new job, and although she seem to have a good attitude approaching the job, I can’t imagine that the stress of that change wasn’t weighing down on her, despite how stiff her lip was.

[Mr. Kelly]

Another thought…

What do you think the negative repercussions might be if I just played hardball with this girl… such as… “You know that I love you… but I need to know whether we are dating or not, because if we’re not, I am going to choose to move on.“

Is this decisively a bad idea? I’m getting impatient.

[once removed]

I’m getting impatient.

i think this is something that happens when we fear the uncertain.

no, i think that would be backing her into a corner.

[Mr. Kelly]

Well…

Happy July 4 everyone… Hope your day is filled with family and friends.

Even having a relatively nice and event free breakfast on Friday morning, one could only have hoped that my disappeared lady friend would’ve sent even a simple text out to say hi, or to say happy Fourth of July this morning when she got up, which would have been hours ago…

I feel completely estranged from this woman, and I have no real knowledge of why.  Two years together, more or less, and this is how she treats someone who has been really good to her? Let’s make no mistake. I’ve been really good to this girl. In almost every imaginable way.

We went from seeing each other 3 to 4 days a week just a few weeks ago, talking or texting multiple times every day, to absolutely zero. It’s just too weird.  It boggles my soul to its core.

She has seemingly, using her words during the last split, flatlined… Just lost interest. How does that happen to someone? I don’t think ever in my life have I loved someone and spent the kind of time and energy with them like we have and then just suddenly went “poof“.  Although, she has said to me repeatedly that when she is done with someone, something just clicks in her head, and she’s done.  But there was no real qualifying reasons for her to be done. Nothing major really happened.  Things had been going relatively well just days earlier.

This wouldn’t really jive with her getting together for breakfast the other day, although there’s no way to know whether that was intended to be her time to let go and say goodbye. Maybe that just never happened. It really feels and looks that way.

If you guys following this story had any guess as to what’s going on in this girl’s head right now, what would you think?

Not a good start to what should be a festive holiday.

[once removed]

If you guys following this story had any guess as to what’s going on in this girl’s head right now, what would you think?

shes probably as confused as you are man.

are you gonna reach out to her?

[Mr. Kelly]

shes probably as confused as you are man.

are you gonna reach out to her?

Well, she’s not one that usually drags her feet on almost anything. If she wanted to reach out to me, she would have.

I’m really anxious about it, and it brings a large pit to my stomach to think about reaching out to her, for all the complicated reasons.

I guess it would be a slap in the face to not at least reach out and say happy Fourth of July. She’s very patriotic.

I could do what I had already thought I might… Invite her out with my daughter tonight to have a pizza, or to a marvelous fireworks display tomorrow. I doubt she’ll be able to go tomorrow, which sucks.

Do you think waiting longer is a big disadvantage? Maybe like for a walk mid week? Wait till after the holiday is done?  Too much time away from our breakfast on Friday?

[Mr. Kelly]

 My latest theory is that she just doesn’t want to be confused and hurt anymore, so she has closed off her brain to those feelings. She just wants to be free of the hurt and confusion. I would have never wanted that for her, and tried so hard for it not to be something that would hurt for her. Maybe too much.

[once removed]

i see no reason to wait any longer.

i particularly like the fireworks idea. even if she cant make it, her response will be something clear to go on, and you can do a followup plan.

[Mr. Kelly]

i see no reason to wait any longer.

i particularly like the fireworks idea. even if she cant make it, her response will be something clear to go on, and you can do a followup plan.

How is this for neutrality…:

“Hey there, hope you have a nice day planned for today… I am thinking of taking Callie out to Bertucci’s near you tonight, if you would like to join us. Also, there’s a fantastic fireworks display tomorrow night that is a must see in my hood… I have two chairs, one with your name on it, if you would like.”

Thoughts?

[once removed]

sounds good to me.

[Mr. Kelly]

sounds good to me.

Thanks…

Do you think I should refrain from opening it with “how are you doing?“.

I do think I am over thinking it a bit, but you guys are pretty good at knowing what might trigger negative responses, so that’s why I’m asking.

That’s an open ended question that I would be asking if I ask her how she is doing. I do suspect she’ll just answer with “I am fine“ and maybe not even followed up with a “how are you doing?“.  That’s fairly typical of her in times like these.

[Mr. Kelly]

sounds good to me.

I wonder if I should just send her out a Fourth of July meme and wait for her to respond first before I asked her to go out.

[formflier]

Do you think I should refrain from opening it with “how are you doing?“.

 

I tend to stay away from stuff like this, especially when a pwBPD is "coming down" from an event (even a few days or weeks later).

Much better to say..."Hey...what do you think of that crazy storm" or "did you see X on the news" or something like that.

If they start talking and then "go to" an emotional angle..listen and validate.  If they "don't go there"...no big deal you have made light conversation and moved on.

There is an "art form" to "dipping you toe in the emotional water" and seeing what it is like.  Trial and error will help you sort through this.

The problem or a problem with "how are you doing" is it can be invalidating.  Suppose they are sitting around fuming that you never call and never ask about their feelings.

Most normal people would "be happy" that you reached out.  Often a pwBPD will be upset that "their feelings are wrong" and you do actually care.  (how is that for a brain bender?)

Best,

FF

[Mr. Kelly]

I tend to stay away from stuff like this, especially when a pwBPD is "coming down" from an event (even a few days or weeks later).

Much better to say..."Hey...what do you think of that crazy storm" or "did you see X on the news" or something like that.

If they start talking and then "go to" an emotional angle..listen and validate.  If they "don't go there"...no big deal you have made light conversation and moved on.

There is an "art form" to "dipping you toe in the emotional water" and seeing what it is like.  Trial and error will help you sort through this.

The problem or a problem with "how are you doing" is it can be invalidating.  Suppose they are sitting around fuming that you never call and never ask about their feelings.

Most normal people would "be happy" that you reached out.  Often a pwBPD will be upset that "their feelings are wrong" and you do actually care.  (how is that for a brain bender?)

Best,

FF

Thank you FF… Always good input for thought.

If I felt like I had a true sack these days, I would probably just pick up the phone and call her today. I don’t know if I have it in me, though.

Do you think I am underachieving by not saying anything personal, and stick solely to offering her the choices to get together, like the first draft a few posts ago? It feels a little detached and without emotion, but maybe that is good… It would be really a yes or no kind of interaction.

[once removed]

Quick question: with past breakups was there a clear "we are breaking up" or were they ambiguous?

[Mr. Kelly]

Quick question: with past breakups was there a clear "we are breaking up" or were they ambiguous?

Yes, very clear Break ups each and every time… “We are done, I will never be back…” Usually that would appear about three or four days after something went down, or she got pissed about something, real or imagined…

The texts were also very hostile, bringing up every last reason why I don’t love her enough, that she deserves better, and revisiting almost every infraction she believes I ever did that validated her breaking up.  This has been completely consistent with about all 10 or 12 break ups in the two years I’ve roughly known her, except for this one.

My responses had always been encouragement, positive energy, but probably way too much validating of my own behavior and deconstructing of her arguments.

This time around… Zero real validation of any break up. Just non-response to two telephone calls, and the breakfast friend zone on Friday.

That’s why this one seems different in someway… Almost as if she has just given up hope that we can work. Last time around, I think she was just pissed and angry, this time around could be what some people call the final discard, for all I know.

Does that give you any insight?

[Mr. Kelly]

OK… I sent her out a text… here is where it is at, for your counsel.

Me: sent happy Fourth of July colorful meme… “happy Fourth of July… Hope your day is going well, thus far… at least, no rain… And no work!”

Her: “ Thank you..Happy 4th..no work yet..hopefully wont be called in..”

Me: “ I'll cross my fingers… Seems like you are in good shape so far.”

Her:  “so far”

End


What would you suggest for next? She hasn’t asked me any questions or really attempted to keep the conversation going. Neither did I, though.

Should I pitch pizza tonight or fireworks tomorrow now, or wait a bit and see if this little exchange prompts another response if I drop it for a while?

[once removed]

Ask her out, my dude.

[formflier]

Ask her out, my dude.

You've got this...I think you have the right idea with "mentioning" that you are doing pizza and fireworks...and there is space for her to come along.

That keeps the pressure down on her.  Keeps her out of the "corner".

"Ambiguity" seems to be working for you (even thought it feels different).  Guess what..it is different.

Stick with that...

A long way of saying "Ditto to what Once Removed just posted!"

Best,

FF

[Mr. Kelly]

Thank you guys…

I do feel a lot less anxiety… Here’s the update… Not perfect but definitely a step in the right direction…

Me:  I'm expecting to take Callie out for pizza at Bertucci's for dinner tonight, it would be nice if you want to join us… (Provided it's open, and it seems to be)

Also, fantastic fireworks in Groton tomorrow night, best in class… I've got two chairs, and one with your name on it, if you'd like to go

Her:  So tomorrow sounds good I have stuff going on with kids today...

Me:  You're not working tomorrow night ?

[once removed]

see dude? youre fine.

the pizza place might have been a little awkward anyway.

[Mr. Kelly]

see dude? youre fine.

the pizza place might have been a little awkward anyway.

Yes… I did read somewhere that when you are talking seriously with someone with a cluster B disorder, you are better off not sitting face-to-face and eye to eye, because I can make them feel awkward and uncomfortable.  Not sure if she feels that… Maybe I do… :-).

Our texting wasn’t warm and fuzzy… But I guess it’s a restart of sorts.

She is still playing the curt pissed off role.  Wonder what’s up with that?

The conversation of bipolar has come up before. Any thoughts about that possibility?

[once removed]

She is still playing the curt pissed off role.  Wonder what’s up with that?

im not reading her the same way.

she said yes to going to see fireworks. thats a romantic thing.

like ive said, shes probably as confused, and careful as you are. the state of your relationship is ambiguous, and you are taking a very different tack. she isnt sure whats up. but shes following your lead.

[Mr. Kelly]

Crap… I completely goofed. The fireworks I was talking about are a week from tomorrow, not tomorrow. Crap. Crap. Crap.

Now, I have to reach out and figure out a different plan. One that will probably not have nearly the same kind of outcome, or the same kind of fun.  Likely more anxiety, and more possibility of talking about drama.

Probably another walk. Boring. Maybe I’ll have to try to think of something else for tomorrow night.

[once removed]

more possibility of talking about drama.

its good if she does this.

its good if she asks you. its good if she tells you. its not even necessarily bad if she lays the law down and says "we are not together"! (depending on how you respond to it). youll know where you are, and to clarify, im not predicting that, my point is, if she inquires about the status of the relationship, whatever her attitude, it means shes trying to deal with the anxiety of it, and that, virtually no matter what, plays to your benefit.

given that in all the previous cases, there was a clear, unambiguous breakup, im leaning pretty strongly here on the fact that she is as confused if not more than you are, and shes just feeling her way through things, and youre fine. itd be lovely to lead with the fireworks tomorrow, but having her on the hook for anything, as opposed to uncertainty or a no, is gold.

be bold. be confident. youve got this.

[Mr. Kelly]

Yeah, unfortunately, the fireworks are next week, so I’m scrambling to come up with something to do.

I may suggest having her grab her grandkid, who my daughter likes to take care of, and find something mutual to do that will not be quite so pressure intensive.

I have a coupon for the pizza place, so that is an option.

We texted a bit back-and-forth last night, and she seems a bit chilled out, which is good. I’m still taking my time to reach out to her today, which may or may not be good.

We will see what we will see, I guess.

[formflier]

what all did you guys say/text last evening?

Aren't there fireworks..somewhere?  I was a bit surprised at the timeline, I assumed fireworks were last night.

Best,

FF