scorched earth

[rubystar]

Hello!
This is my first post in this group, thankyou for being here.  I will not bore everyone with my whole story as I am positive it is much like your own.  I am in need of conversation and experiences with a speific topic.

My mother is BPD with strong NPD as well.  My sister shows strong BPD behaviors as well.  To make a long story short, pop passed away last June and before he did mom and pop built a house attached to ours so we could care for them.  Mom moved in at the end of 2020.  The 4 months she was here was a rude awakening to how far she has deteriorated with her illness and some memory issues which were happening when pop was still with us.

Her BPD has changed as she has aged but never diminished in intensity.  She has gifted my family and my sisters family many of she and pops belongings and my sister has never been satisfied with what she has received, she is greedy just like mom.  Anyway,  we had a big blowup 9 weeks ago after months of picking on me and causing fights in our home.  Daily talk of dying and isolating our teen lads speaking depression and fear to them both, on top of the normal BPD/NPD daily behaviors,  when asked to stop and attend family counseling or at the bare minimum grief counseling her behavior escalated to the point that we were daily recording every single interaction and planning a psych evaluation at the urging of our family therapist.

The day of the big blowup I let my words flow freely and all of my pent up anger from 50 years just poured out. I am ashamed of some of the things that I said, as they were truthful yet hurtful, but there was no other way to get it out.  She stood there so wicked just smirking at us and feeling justified and smug that she finally got me to break down after all these years.  I am sure you all know what I am talking about.  Then she left to go the pedicure appt that I had made for she and sister and myself for sisters birthday.  She never returned and since has moved her belongings slowly and caused much trouble in other areas.  She is using BIL as the go between and this week has set up a scenario to appear that we have tried to steal from her,  requesting some of the items gifted back but not all.

The items she has requested back are the items that my sister had wished would have been gifted to her.  We are now having to get a mediator/lawyer to help with this as we are fearful of how far she will take this as she has nothing else going on in her life and we all know how these dramas are what they thrive on.  I have flip flopped on a response from I just want to give her back everything so she can never say she gave me anything to the more logical (and way less bpd slanted) response of keeping everything and acting like the adult that I am.

Question is, have any of you experienced this and how did you handle it and how long did it take to end.  I have never had this much peace in my 50 years as I have in the past 9 weeks and my plan is to remain NC with both of them for the rest of my life.  They offer no value to my life and my family (husband and kids) and all of our emotional and mental well being is more important than any relationship I would have with mom and sister.  Apologies for the length thankyou if you read this whole post.

[Methuen]

Hi Rubystar,

Firstly, sorry for the loss of your pop.

Secondly, you were generous to extend the offer for your mom and pop to build onto your house.  I couldn't do that.  My mom would have consumed me.  She wanted to move in with us and we said we needed our space.  It wasn't even an option for me.  She pushed back hard when we told her that, and tried to embarrass and humiliate us publicly.  We held our boundary.   You made yourself available when they added onto your house.  That was kind and generous.  

I am sorry for all the angst you are experiencing.  The craziness once it starts, seems to feed on itself like a wildfire out of control.  I get the sense that things became impossible and you kinda snapped, which led to the blowout you mentioned.  Now you are NC, and the peace has given you an opportunity to grasp at a bit of normal again.  But things are unfinished, especially with the gifting issues.

My situation with my ubpd mom has been different.  So I'm out of my wheelhouse with your situation.

Now that the blow-up has happened, I'm wondering if there is a way to move forward before this fire burns completely out of control over a bigger swath of land .  Is is possible to dampen it with some tool like SET, or would it be better to just let it burn itself out?  Is this the safest option for you?

What does your family therapist say?

I have had many gold nuggets of advice from my T, but one of them is to take notice of how I am feeling, and if I am on edge/worn out/stressed, to avoid or reduce contact with my mom during those times.  The blow ups are negative and hard to recover from for everybody.  When I'm feeling on edge, is when I know I have to spend as much time on self-care as possible, to get back to my own baseline.  It's kinda the analogy of the parent putting on their own oxygen mask on an airplane in flight, before that of their child.

She stood there so wicked just smirking at us and feeling justified and smug that she finally got me to break down after all these years.  I am sure you all know what I am talking about.  Then she left to go the pedicure appt that I had made for she and sister and myself for sisters birthday.

Yes I know this smirk.  A different T once explained to me that this kind of chaos is her "normal".  It fits the box she knows.  If things are going along somewhat ok for a time (outside of her box), she has to kick up some dust, create a mountain out of a molehill, and create a little chaos, because that is her "normal" and therefore her comfort zone.  Maybe this doesn't fit your situation at all, but it does seem like she was maybe "pushing your buttons" to get an emotional reaction, which she got.  I think they do this when they are emotionally dysregulated.  I think one of the challenges for us is to not fall into the trap of reacting emotionally, 'cause it contributes to the chaos, which a BPD just feeds off.  Nothing good comes of that chaos.  Are you familiar with "grey rock"?

I'm kind of out of my wheelhouse with your particular situation with the gifting.  It sounds like she is triangulating you and using sis and BIL to do so. She's hurting after she got the emotional reaction she pushed the buttons for, and now she's reverting back to preschool behavior of hurting in return, which in this case is to ask for the gifts back.    Do the gifts have any "title" which have been transferred to your name already? Or are they mostly items of a personal nature?

Where is she moving to?  Why is BIL participating in this?  What's in it for him?  Is he hoping to benefit gift or money wise?  Or is he an unsuspecting innocent?

Great idea to get a mediator/lawyer.    Get some solid facts and information.  Then consider your options.  

The whole thing is classic.  There have been many threads on this topic in the time I've been part of this community.  You are not alone.

I have never had this much peace in my 50 years as I have in the past 9 weeks and my plan is to remain NC with both of them for the rest of my life.  They offer no value to my life and my family (husband and kids) and all of our emotional and mental well being is more important than any relationship I would have with mom and sister.

The message I get out of this is that a change and some respite from her was needed.  This is your opportunity to take care of yourself, and take some time for you and your family.  

If or when you decide you want to reconcile, it will be up to you because she will never come with an olive branch or an apology.  The distorted thinking prevents this.  Any time things have gone out of control with my mom in the past, it was on me to bridge the gap between us.  Ultimately, each one of knows our situation best, what is safe for us and what isn't, why, and what the consequences of our decision will be either way.

You will find a way through this.  Wishing you peace and clarity.  Take your time, and just
S-L-O-W things down. 

[GaGrl]

What is the usual, day-to-day relationship like between your sister and your mother? Do you anticipate conflict between them at some point? Would this drive your mother to want to move back to your property?

[Notwendy]

I am sorry for the loss of your father. My story has some similar dynamics.

My father passed away after a long illness. As he was the supporting partner, my mother's BPD escalated as his ability to do the things he did for her declined. Still, his drive to protect her feelings and not reveal any issues remained strong and so his medial team assumed he was being well cared for at home by his loving wife.

In reality, her BPD behaviors increased to the point where I didn't think it was safe for him. There were several conflicts between me and my parents at the time when I tried to assert boundaries and also was concerned about her ability as a caregiver.

I was very attached to my father. While I did not have interest in the cost value of my father's possessions, there were some that had great sentimental value to me and my children. My mother had no use for them and so I had hoped to have them as keepsakes one day, and my parents knew that.

BPD mother was also emotionally and verbally abusive to me at the time. I tried to not react. However, when it became clear the end was near for my father, I was overwhelmed emotionally myself and just lost my temper with her and yelled at her like I hadn't ever yelled at her before.

I didn't know about the Karpman triangle at the time, and it will help you to put in perspective what happened when you "had words" with your mother. My mother perceives herself as a victim. She doesn't connect her behavior to my responses. She didn't perceive or care about my feelings. In her world, I just viscously attacked her after which she felt entitled to "rescue herself" by payback.

And she did, and with intent to hurt. She knew exactly what would feel the most hurtful and it was to not allow me to have the sentimental things I wanted. She threatened to give them away but also kept some of them. She would later tell me to come get them or she'd throw them out, so when I came to get them she refused to let me have them. I do understand the fear of how far your mother might go with items you want.

I don't know how much the items you were gifted mean to you. It is different for you because you already have them, and if I had the ones I wanted, I would not have returned them because they have meaning to me. For your mother to get them back, it might take a lawyer, that is very expensive, and so it's worth holding on to them if you want them. It might mean drama but if you can withstand that, I'd hold on to them because drama alone won't get them back.

For me, I had to come to the realization that my mother owned them and she could do whatever she wanted with them. I felt I had to let go of my wanting them and once I could do that, I didn't emotionally react to her mentioning them as much. Eventually I was able to acquire some of them later thankfully. I am not NC with my mother but I am LC. I have found that I can not get emotionally involved with her behavior.

My lack of emotional response to my mother's possessions distressed her in a way I did not expect. I realized that she also has the fear of abandonment that is common with BPD. I was emotionally attached to my father and less to her, and so now with him gone, I realized she may also fear that I would not visit her if she didn't have something I wanted. So I decided to keep contact with her and not make my visits about any possessions. The BPD paradox " I hate you don't leave me" is confusing. For some reason, the behavior is worst with the people they are more attached to. This doesn't mean we tolerate abusive behavior, but if we see it as part of the disorder, it doesn't feel as personal.

So, you have two things going on her. One is the possessions and the other is the people involved. For my mother, gifts have strings attached. One of my own rules is to ask nothing of her, do not touch her things. I don't even stay with her when I visit, I stay in a hotel. Because if I have anything of hers, it is something she can get manipulative over or yell at me for. She's even yelled at me for putting something of mine to dispose of in her trash can. Your mother has no other power right now than to use the possessions she gave you as strings. If you can settle they are yours legally, great. Then you can decide about what kind of relationship you want to have with your mother and sister.

However, also keep in mind that your mother's behavior may also be a result of her fears of losing the relationship with you, and if she can prolong drama between you, then there is still interactions between the two of you. It might not be the items she is needing, but they have become the vehicle for her connection with you. Yes, it's dysfunctional but this is a part of it. You may also consider some LC interactions, not related to the possessions to see if this lessens the drama over them some.