MIL has BPD as diagnosed by my therapist (but she is not aware)

[Forestrain123]

Hi everyone,

I would just love some advice because I'm struggling (some days are easier than others). I'm dating the eldest of 3 children, whose mother had BPD. I know the person suffering from BPD usually selects a golden child, who is probably the middle child (my boyfriends younger brother). However my boyfriend is the man in the house, he organises/fixes and is the glue in many ways. The golden middle child is alouf and only calls ever so often whereas we see our inlaws every week. Yet the golden and his girlfriend are the absolute favourites, everything they do is perfection. Whereas I'm on the outer, I'm literally the perfect daughter in law, organise dinners, invite them over all the time. Sit a chat for hours about things in my MIL and she never asks about me, and I never complain.

However one time last year she had a go at my partner and I defended him (I did not know about the BPD at the time) and with hindsight I see how I should have stayed completely out of it. She turned on me and I saw the bad sides, my partner froze, having never been in that situation, he is really bad a conflict and didn't stand up for me. We have been together for nearly 3 years and I love him more than anything. My boyfriend has Asperger's and doesn't pick up on the little manipulations and passive agressiveness and his solution is to ignore it (maybe he is right but it is hard)

I don't take the little digs personally and how she constantly talks about herself and doesn't ask about me or my life. But we had a dinner last night and she was so cold to me and was talking about how amazing her neice is and how skinny she is and how amazing her other son is and I shouldn't get jealous but I put in so much effort, I may as well just never see her or create a relationship because I get something in return.

I guess I'm just looking for advice, sometimes I wonder if it even worth it, is it worth being with my partner, we don't have kids I can get out now. I don't want to grow to resent him or one day just blow up at my MIL because it all just builds up and I loose my mind.
If something has worked for you, let me know.. I really need the help right now.

[Notwendy]

This is complicated and there really isn't one way to answer this and it takes some personal assessment and discussion with your BF.  First, I think it will help to learn about BPD and also the family dynamics to help you to understand your MIL's behavior with the goal of not taking it personally because it's not about you. I also think it would help you to feel that your efforts to have a nice get together won't change her behavior or feelings- because these, too, are not about you or your BF.

While it is important to be honest with your feelings- and you are- as to whether or not you can manage this in the long run, also understand that your BF is not his mother. Still, we children of BPD mothers have been raised in dysfunctional family dynamics and while you see this within his family, your relationship is with him. I think in some situations if the adult child is so enmeshed with their mother that she becomes a third person in the relationship- that can be difficult to tolerate. However, if it's more like the occasional ( albeit unpleasant) visit, it would probably not be worth letting go of an otherwise good relationship.

My mother has BPD and I grew up fearing people would judge me by her behavior, but I am a very different person and it is important to me that people see me as I am - not judge me on the basis of her behavior.

If you see issues with your BF now, ( not his mother) keep in mind that the person we commit to, is that person. Thinking they will somehow change if only we could do X, Y, Z is not realistic. This doesn't mean people don't grow or learn, but marrying someone expecting them to change is not a recipe for happiness.

There is no perfect person either. What you need to do is make an honest personal assessment of your values and what is most important to you. No two people match up perfectly, and so you need to know the priorities and what are aspects you absolutely can't tolerate- deal breakers. If the two of you are compatible in the ways that are most important to you, is the MIL a deal breaker or not?

It's good that you are aware of your feelings of resentment. But these are feelings on your part and so you may have ways to manage them. One might be to see her less often, lower your expectations about her.

One question to consider is how involved do you want her to be with your children if you have them? I basically manage my own mother in my family. She has contact with my kids, but I never left them alone with her due to her behavior. My H and I did not have disagreements over this because we both agreed on how to protect the kids from her issues, as well as our family. He is aware that being around her upsets me. He can see this, but he also sees me limit my visiting time to manage that. He does not need to step in to do this. What happened when you stepped in to defend your BF with his mother is that you got into the drama triangle with her.  I think it would help if you and your BF had a talk about how to conduct your family life separate from his mother but still have some contact with her, and see how he feels about it.

[Methuen]

What is your BF's relationship with her?  To be clear, does he defend her, is he in denial, does he worship her, try to please her?  To put it another way, does he have his eyes open to her BPD, is he aware of her issues and does he accept them for what they are? (i.e. distorted thinking, difficult, high conflict, self absorbed, possibly creating chaos)

She turned on me and I saw the bad sides, my partner froze, having never been in that situation, he is really bad a conflict and didn't stand up for me.

  Have you spoken with him about this?  Why do you think he didn't stand up for you?  Could this happen again do you think, or become a pattern?

What are his thoughts about his mom, her thinking, and her behaviors?

Also wondering if you have knowledge about,  or experience with pwBPD prior to your BF?  Or is this all new to you?

[khibomsis]

Forestrain, I am sorry to hear of your MIL. It must be hard to keep your cool and stay calm. I think Notwendy and Methuen have it covered re: the MIL. I just wanted to say that an Asperger's boyfriend on its own is surely something you have to think about carefully, too? I was married to one for ten years and it didn't work out. Of course maybe mine was extreme and  people are different, but it is not something you should rush into. Here is a thread which might prove helpful to you:
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=339994.msg13080886
 

[Notwendy]

In defense of the Asperger BF, while they may be lacking in some social skill, they tend to be loyal and truthful. Like many conditions, it's a spectrum and also your own personal values come in to the decision.

One thing that comes to mind is when your BF's mother is verbally being rude to him, he may not come up with a verbal retort in the moment, or he's learned this doesn't help the situation.  This doesn't mean he doesn't process what she says, but that if he's flustered, he may stay quiet rather than speak back. He may have the social skills to realize that saying what he's thinking all the time isn't always the best thing to do. This means he has a level of social awareness that is a plus.

If MIL is on a verbal rant, speaking back to her in the moment can add fuel to the drama. Sometimes saying nothing and then deciding on how to manage this later such as seeing her less, shorter visits, may be a better way to handle it. Speaking back won't likely change her behavior so making boundaries about it would.

A relationship with someone with Aspergers may take some understanding of the condition, but because people with Aspergers tend to be honest and not manipulative, I think, in general, t's easier to deal with that than BPD. However, I also understand it's a spectrum and every relationship takes two individual people so what works well for one couple might not for another.

[khibomsis]

Indeed, Methuen, I totally agree with you that Asperger's are different, just like pwBPD are different. I have an Aspie nephew who is delightful in every way. My ex lied on the other hand to me for years and  started getting violent with things at the end, it is quite possible that she had something else going on besides the Asperger's. I do pick them 
I think your explanation is a beautiful example of what I was trying to say which is that it would pay Forestrain to educate herself on both conditions. Knowing what you are getting into is never a bad thing.
,

[Notwendy]

Yes, it's always good to learn about the conditions someone you are connected to has.

 Khibomsis- sounds like your partner was really difficult. It certainly is a spectrum and like any spectrum disorder, the more involved is harder to deal with.

It is OK to consider a situation over the long run,  and consider any long term commitment carefully.

[pursuingJoy]

Sit a chat for hours about things in my MIL and she never asks about me, and I never complain.

She turned on me and I saw the bad sides, my partner froze, having never been in that situation, he is really bad a conflict and didn't stand up for me.

I'm so sorry you're going through this.   My MIL has undiagnosed BPD too. I could have written much of what you wrote. I've felt like an outsider. I've put effort in with no return, watched her use and hurt him, and I've been on the receiving end of her nastiness. I've been compared to other women and called the wrong name for a year and a half. At one point she paraded a young single neighbor in front of him, almost like she wanted my H to show interest in the neighbor. It is sometimes weird, sometimes confusing, sometimes hurtful. I was a pretty confident, self-assured person but 5 years in, I felt upside down and crazy. I didn't even understand what was wrong.

I guess I'm just looking for advice, sometimes I wonder if it even worth it, is it worth being with my partner, we don't have kids I can get out now. I don't want to grow to resent him or one day just blow up at my MIL because it all just builds up and I loose my mind.
If something has worked for you, let me know.. I really need the help right now.

It can be worth it, and it can work. Things have improved drastically for me in the last year and a half. The first step for me was learning about BPD and coming here. Check.  

The second step was learning about triangulation. BPD's are masters at triangulating. Stepping off the triangle was probably THE most important step that I took.

Third was boundaries. This was really hard work, but SO worth it in the end.

We're here to talk through it, or support, whatever you need. Big hugs. It's going to be ok. You can do this.

pj
 

[Forestrain123]

Hey everyone, I didn't realize I had responses! Wow, thank you.
Every comment was really validating and helpful! To answer a few questions:

I've done quite a bit of research on the communication styles, if there is an episode, how my partner and I should talk and handle it. I also understand that is not easy for my MIL, I've read that when her feelings are hurt it feels x10 of what I would feel. Which is terrible. If there's any article or book that you found helpful - I'll check it out.

I feel I need to give more background, so my BF dad is a doctor, really book smart, not street smart and is a very routine, a quiet, soft man. He really gets the grunt of her outbursts, I've seen her physically abuse him, she has created an entire narrative that he is a narcissist and she is trapped (which i believed at the beginning). However, after living with them for a year (which I realize now was a huge mistake) it's obvious she is making it all up. She also won't let her husband leave the marriage and flips into being extremely nice when she has gone too far. He just goes a long with it, does exactly what she says and is with her because I think he thinks it's the right thing to do (he hasn't said that but It's what I have gathered, given his own upbringing). My BF is very similar to his dad, and also gets tormented that he and his dad are working against her and that he treats her like PLEASE READ (my MIL calls my BF every few days, he always answers, is always there for her) my BF is really talkative and I think tries to make up for the lack of talking his dad does. I definitely agree with the triangle statement, to be honest, I don't mind if they are super close I actually really admire that about my BF - I can see he is so loving to his family.

There was one really bad episode last year, where it was my BF's dads birthday and my boyfriend forgot (and didn't tell me!) so when we got downstairs we said we would take his dad out to brekky - my MIL was still out so my partner went to get fuel and I quickly got ready upstairs (this all happened when we were living together) and when I came down - she got home and was furious and said all these terrible things about my BF - that he was trying to work against her, that he had some secret plan with his dad and that he is too close with him. I was like "no way, your son adores you, how could you say something so terrible" she continues and pushes past me. My BF and his dad get home and we leave to go to breakfast, it is crazy quiet. She then starts attacking my BF accusing him, saying we were trying to exclude her from breakfast. I but in and say "it was an honest mistake, we just woke up" she then yells at me and tells me this is family business and I'm not part of the family. This really hurt me because I really value family and built a relationship with her, I was a shoulder to cry on all year living together.. My partner pulled the car over and i hopped out crying my eyes out and just didn't want to be around her. My boyfriend came out and hugged me and she yelled out that I was manipulating him and then he told her to get back in the car. Later he called her and got really angry at her and the next day I saw her and she thought we had broken up and was talking to me, with a smile on her face and my BF just froze. He couldn't believe she was just bopping around so happy, when he was expecting her to apologize to me. (I've never gotten an apology). Anyway, it's a long story from there, but we went a saw a therapist a few times and she really helped us understand what happened. In hindsight, we should have handled that SO differently, like even just texting her that breakfast was on, so the whole thing wouldn't have happened in the first place - I understand that this would have been extremely triggering for her.

We bought a house and moved out not long after (which was always the plan) and it's been different ever since. She has laid off talking about the dad around us both for a few months and now she only talks about her husband to myw BF (her son) on the phone or when I'm not there. Which is an improvement, however the hot/cold and the passive-aggressive comments are new.


@NotWendy I feel you have nailed it. I do have a problem where I 'need' this acceptance but it's just completely unreasonable to expect it. I'm the one that needs to make the decision on whether I can handle this. In no way have I judged my partner or thought less of him. She is a fantastic mother, she would do anything for her boys, literally, die for them, she is really feminist and has given her boys some really excellent values to live by, she is really intelligent and I can see her internal battle. It's sad.

@Methuen this is difficult - he completely acknowledges the disorder, however, he doesn't think its a big deal and wants to move on. I try to communicate that this is something we will always have to monitor (e.g. her recent mood towards me might be because we have seen her too much lately and we may need to back off a little?). Your point about children/ the future is difficult for me. I would trust her with children 100% however I would not trust her if her husband is around - I don't think she could help herself, there would be a risk of an outburst/yelling. Also, if the mood she has towards me extends to the children - that is a huge concern. She does look after her niece's daughter (7) rarely, however, her niece hasn't seen her outbursts before. I haven't had the discussion fully with my partner as this is all pretty new to us.
My partner is high-functioning so it's just the highly subtle smirks or comments that he doesn't pick up on right away like @khibomsis @Notwendy mentioned. I agree and sometimes just need reminding.

@pursuingJoy that hits home. That would have been so hurtful. Thank you for the hope that things will get easier, If you ever want to chat just let me know.

I really want to make it work with my partner (i posted that right after dinner and was feeling really helpless and sometimes I do just want a way out). Another thing besides children on my mind is how much / what I tell to my family. I haven't mentioned ANY of this to my family. I'm really close to my mum and she has just had cancer a couple of times so I don't want to add any stress (she has been given the all-clear for 2 years now). I live in a different state to my family - all she knows is that my MIL can be overbearing and a little too talkative, that's it. I don't know how much is appropriate to share, to be respectful to my BF. However, I feel like if/when there are children involved that I would need to.

[Forestrain123]

Also, @notwendy I really appreciate what you said about my BF, he is not his mother. You are 100% right. Thank you

[Methuen]

I'm literally the perfect daughter in law, organise dinners, invite them over all the time. Sit a chat for hours about things in my MIL and she never asks about me, and I never complain.

This is going to sound odd and counterintuitive, but from my experience, the harder I tried with my mom, the worse she got (and by that I mean she became more difficult, high conflict, and even impossible).  When their behavior gets like this, it's time to step away and "take a break" from trying so hard.

My boyfriend came out and hugged me and she yelled out that I was manipulating him and then he told her to get back in the car. Later he called her and got really angry at her and the next day I saw her and she thought we had broken up and was talking to me, with a smile on her face and my BF just froze. He couldn't believe she was just bopping around so happy, when he was expecting her to apologize to me.

     There are a few flags in this.  What often happens is that MIL triangulates...and interferes...and the fact that she was so happy when she thought you had broken up is a red flag.  She probably feels her relationship and the power she has over her son (and the time he can spend with her), is threatened by you.  This problem isn't going to go away, because her thinking is distorted, and a part of her personality.  So...does her son (your BF) see her distorted thinking, or recognize that she mistreats her husband (his dad)?  Or does he make excuses for it?  If he doesn't see it, then he's probably more susceptible to being caught up in her drama, which is going to affect you.  Basically, MIL isn't going to change, so how much her behavior affects you is going to depend on how aware your BF is of her BPD, and what strategies he uses to navigate a relationship with her, and also what strategies you learn to use.  It doesn't sound like his dad has a lot of strategies (you mentioned he "goes along with it and does exactly what she says").  

he doesn't think its a big deal and wants to move on

This kinda sounds like maybe he doesn't understand the potential problem, or maybe he is in denial?  In my experience (my mom is uBPD), BPD is a very big deal.  It can make life crazy, and out of control.  The fact that this forum exists and so many people are on it suggests that BPD is a big deal.   You mention that after she "turned on you"  he "froze".  This is another  .  It suggests an emotional "fear" response, rather than a rational executive functioning kind of response, which suggests his brain is responding to a pattern of her established behavior, and he can't respond rationally "in the moment" (his fear makes him freeze).

Did I read somewhere in one of your posts that you and BF are seeing a T?  If I am remembering this right, this is a really really great thing.  Is it helping you?  BF?

The way she probably sees your relationship with BF is that you took her son away from her.  Trying to be the perfect DIL would work with most people, but it just isn't going to work with a pwBPD.  Instead, the strategies on this website for navigating a BPD relationship are going to be the keys you need to manage this.  Boundaries, stepping off the triangle, validation (SET), self-care, and never ever JADE her, ever.

 

I don't know how much is appropriate to share, to be respectful to my BF. However, I feel like if/when there are children involved that I would need to.

What do you think is the right thing to do for you? Know first, what your own needs are.  Then I would suggest communicating with your BF.  What does he have to say?  How close are your two views?  It is important that you are working together on this challenge.