There's been no contact at all

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

I am 6 months out (close to 7ish now) and so far there's been no contact at all like many other members experience. I am in an okay place right now, moving on with my life, studying, hopefully make some new friends in University since lockdowns are being lifted.
I still wonder sometimes what she must be upto because I was just blocked everywhere in an instant and it's like she never looked back at the destruction she caused. She never unblocked me, ignored every attempt I made to reach (just 2 times within a month of the discard). After that I haven't tried at all.
I know she just cannot be alone no matter what. I know she started adding guys on social media immediately after.
Sometimes they just never contact again? Although I think reading about BPD has given me enough closure but sometimes I just wonder if it happens, what would it be like?
She's undiagnosed BPD (can't admit anything wrong so will never get therapy) and ticks covert narcissism too.

[redhaired1818]

I am 6 months out (close to 7ish now) and so far there's been no contact at all like many other members experience. I am in an okay place right now, moving on with my life, studying, hopefully make some new friends in University since lockdowns are being lifted.
I still wonder sometimes what she must be upto because I was just blocked everywhere in an instant and it's like she never looked back at the destruction she caused. She never unblocked me, ignored every attempt I made to reach (just 2 times within a month of the discard). After that I haven't tried at all.
I know she just cannot be alone no matter what. I know she started adding guys on social media immediately after.
Sometimes they just never contact again? Although I think reading about BPD has given me enough closure but sometimes I just wonder if it happens, what would it be like?
She's undiagnosed BPD (can't admit anything wrong so will never get therapy) and ticks covert narcissism too.

[grumpydonut]

If she's borderline, give it time, it'll come.

If she's more narc, don't expect her to ever contact you unless she needs something AND there's a way to maintain the power dynamic.

[redhaired1818]

She fits the borderline criteria too well (except self harm and suicidal tendencies) but also covert narcissism. The discard was more narc style (severe anger, blame shifting even though she lied and cheated). I wonder if shes NPD too (but vulnerable: hypersensitivity to criticism, lack of empathy, desire for admiration, excessive attention seeking behaviour, extreme jealousy, emotional dysregulation, negative dialogue and feelings of worthlessness .. and I could go on).

There was a lot of "I hate you-don't leave me" during the breakup (classic BPD style) but after that she blocked me, blamed everything wrong in her life on me, dissociated/detached and moved on like no tomorrow even though one day before I was the "love" of her life etc etc.

I am not holding on to that hope anymore especially since now I live a 2 hour flight away in a different country so I guess there's no incentive for her to reach out (?) since she uses Tinder a lot to actively look for boyfriends pretty much all the time.

But it was interesting to read so many members here or in general get contacted again but that never happened with me at all so I was just wondering, thats all.

Thanks for your response. 

[shopgirl26]

Hi redhaired,

I'm sorry for what your BPD ex has put you through. It is so disorienting and painful to suddenly go from the love of someone's life to being blamed for all of their problems. Know that all of the awful things your ex said to you during the discard phase was pure projection. She projected onto you all that she hates about herself. That's what I keep reminding myself too. My ex wanted to stay best friends and "couldn't picture her life without me" and a week later, was violent with me, blocked me on everything, and sent me a hateful email blaming me for her substance abuse, calling me an abuser, and blaming me for all the times she'd lied to her therapy. I can see now that none of that was ever my responsibility. All of that is her stuff. But she can't and won't examine that stuff. The irony of the whole thing is that when we first broke up and were both heartbroken and kind to each other she said "it would be so much easier to be angry." And then, poof! A week later, she chose anger because it was easier. Your ex did too. They can't sit with the pain and the nuanced emotion. There is never shades of grey to a BPD.

We broke up at the end of March. Aside from the hateful email after she broke into my place in April, I've heard nothing. Well, actually, there was one attempt in May where she emailed me to demand flea and tick meds for my emotional support animal (which she broke in and stole.) I didn't respond for my safety. Nothing since then.

She showed a lot of narc traits at the end––the stunning lack of empathy (my dad died in Nov), the discard, the rage, the blaming, etc.

However, she's about to be served with divorce papers which, from what I've read from others, will send her into a tailspin. I'll let you know if I get contacted.

Know this. Because BPD's CANNOT handle emotional nuance, there is no such thing as being friends with the after a breakup. It's not possible. So, while it sucks that you've heard nothing, and it's painful to feel discarded and thrown away, ultimately this is the best thing for you right now. Good for you for all the work you've done on yourself and building your new life.

Hang in there. We love you.

[redhaired1818]

Hey shopgirl, thank you so much for your response. I am really sorry to hear about your ex. Staying best friends with my ex was never on my list but one of my best friends actually contacted her a day after the discard because I was in a really bad place and wanted to have a talk but she completely ignored everything and basically told a mutual friend that I'm dead to her, I'm toxic, abusive and pushed her so bad now she has to go to therapy because of me, which are all lies because I mentioned during breakup that I had to go to therapy because of how she had been using me as her emotional support system, so she made it all about herself so she's the victim now.

Your ex stole your pet? Jeez man these people honestly make me sick sometimes. Not all BPDs they say but their behaviours and symptoms are so toxic and abusive. I'm really sorry to hear about the loss of your dad, I hope you're doing alright 

As for the divorce, I'm glad you're taking that step and getting out of this whirpool of emotional instability  More power to you.

Thank you for the kind words, I have reached a stage of acceptance at this point and I know there's not much I could have done. I've blocked her too so maybe I guess that could also be one of the reasons but I kept the window open the first 4 months and she didn't even unblock me for a second and kept adding guys from Tinder (?). So all that came as a hugeshock because she wanted to get married to me (classic future faking). Apart from some random thoughts like this once in a while, I have redirected my focus to studies and University so hopefully things will get better in the coming year or so.

Once again, thank you for your response and congratulations on your divorce. Nowhere to go but upwards from here 

[brighter future]

If she's borderline, give it time, it'll come.

Agreed. I didn't think mine would ever contact me again, but everyone in here and my therapist as well told me to be ready for it. After 4.5 months of no contact, I started to get blips from my ex via social media through mutual friends' pages even though I removed her from my social media. She was liking and commenting on things I say in reply to mutual friends on their social media pages, but I ignored her each time that occurred. Next, about a month later, I got an actual text message from her asking how I was doing. Then she proceeded to tell me that she no longer needed a household item I'd given to her a year and a half ago. When I gave her that item, I told her that I didn't want it back and was going to donate it to a charitable organization if she didn't take it. She stated that she wanted to bring it to my house if I wanted it back. I plainly told her no and to give it away to someone else.

Roughly a month after the text message on my phone, she showed up at my house while she was visiting her parents that live next door to me while my child and I were outside playing basketball. She's walked over two or three times since then, and the most recent visit was about 5-6 weeks ago. Each visit has been super awkward. She'll say a few things and make small talk but will never look me in the eye while she's speaking. It's been roughly 15 months since our split, and these things really don't affect me much anymore. They used to, but a lot of time has passed, which has allowed for a lot of internal healing for me.  

My therapist said they do these things to feel you out and see if you're still an option for them should something go wrong with their current relationship. I also believe they enjoy trying to get in your head and mess with your emotions. My ex was talking to her new supply (a recycled fling) the day after she discarded me (she bragged about this to a mutual friend and said she was talking to 3 other guys at the same time). Each time she has contacted me since our split has been when her new man isn't around, or he's a work for the day. He works the night shift.  I wonder how he'd feel if he knew she'd been contacting me? I'm sure she did this behind my back for the whole duration of our relationship.

Keep working hard on healing your wounds and try to have some firm boundaries in place should your ex try to contact you again in the future. Best wishes to you on your journey.

[tvda]

In my view, there is a spectrum from BPD to NPD. Pure BPD is pure chaos, but “hot” chaos. NPD is cold and calculated - and very rectilinear in a sense.

The more your ex is BPD, the bigger the chance of charming, given that her other supply fails or dries up. Keep in mind that the foundation for a potential charm would be extremely unstable emotions in the far BPD case.

The more your ex is NPD, the smaller the chances at charming, unless there is a significant advantage in this for her, or an extremely perverted urge to maintain control over you.

I guess what I’m really trying to say is: in the case of a charm, you’re screwed either way.

[tvda]

Uhm, for some reason the term H O O V E R I N G keeps getting changed to ‘charming’. Why is that?

[babyducks]

Uhm, for some reason the term H O O V E R I N G keeps getting changed to ‘charming’. Why is that?

The website is programmed to block some language.    Different reasons for different words.     Curse words because free Wi-Fi will balk at them.    Because this site is Google searchable other words are blocked.    Some junk science words are blocked.

[tvda]

Yup, I get that. But the term H O O V E R I N G seems fairly essential to me on a forum about BPD. Oh well, charming it is.

[once removed]

this may help: https://bit.ly/3jUfeY1

[tvda]

Thanks, that explains things...

[Skip]

It might be helpful to look at data on recycling during a relationship:
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=95860.msg582115#msg582115

"Sixty-two (62%) of all relationships (in general) do not end at the first break-up.  For a wife to have second thoughts about a divorce is normal. Sometimes our own self doubt makes us want to try one more time.  Sometimes one partner promises to change something.   To reconnect with a person after a break-up 1-2 times is really not all that unusual.  

When there are more than 4, 5, 6 "break-up/make-up" cycles in a relationship there is something seriously wrong.  When this happens, the conventional relationship expectations are pretty much out the window. "

More

                  Break-up/make-up cycles



              Single break-up (no recycles) is 10%

[Skip]

Or data on post relationship discussion content...
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=120426.0

Survey data about the communications we receive after the "big break-up"



Normal post relationship contact (6%*) - all the logistics and coordination stuff (returning the pets, the key, picking up things left behind, discussion about mutual friend, etc.).  

True, there might be attitude with this.  True your partner may have left somethings behind - or held some things of yours.  It may be about insecurity about leaving (so they are leaving few bread crumbs leading back) -  or a little anger -  or it's to avoid an emotional showdown (they may just want to wait to until things are cool to resolve these items).  

This is not a unique to BPD behavior.  There is often a lot of ceremony in a breakup of a relationship - especially if their were ongoing frustrations.  It happens in many relationships.

Overstepping Conventional Boundaries/Boundary Busting/Using you (50%*) - Inappropriate post relationship requests are not uncommon in a dissolved relationships with a person suffering from BPD. People with BPD may overstep the conventional boundaries by asking for friendship, favors, validation, even sex after having emotionally disengaged from the relationship themselves.

This is often misconstrued by us as another attempt to recycle. This can be very confusing, and even cruel to the us as the former partner. Understanding that this occurs and being vigilant about maintaining conventional post relationship boundaries is important. It might be emotionally hard to do.  

Remember,people with BPD are known to overstep personal boundaries in relationships and it stands to reason that they would do so post relationship. The motivations for the person with BPD are often selfishness and insensitivity rather than maliciousness.  Nonetheles, our hurt is the same.

If the person truly wants to get back - give it very careful consideration and go slow. If your partner wants to jump back in right where you left off it's a bad sign.

Post relationship fighting (28%*)  - This can been in the form of either blaming, or detailing the resentment, or raging, or showing off the new boyfriend, or a host of other angry/resentful things.

With a very angry/resentful people, it's not unusual for the anger to continue past the separation. Many couples do this.  There is a lot of anger associated with this disorder.  

For the person with BPD this is mostly about resentments that have built up and feelings of being violated or shamed.    The blame goes to you because the pwBPD doesn't want it to be because of their (bad) behavior - they ofte need to be the victim in their new life - it not about us.  

For us it is typically about feelings of betrayal.

Continuation's of of the breakup/makeup cycle (6%*) - While this is a small percentage of the post breakup communications, a recent bpdfamily poll suggests that as many as 75% of the relationships for members on the L3-Leaving have/had 4 or more break-up/make-up cycles.  See data here

Blackmail/Manipulation (<1%*) - This the most pathological of the post relationship behaviors.  Some pwBPD will use suicide or self-harm, threats of harm to others or property, or threats of false criminal accusations to manipulate the situation.

More

[Skip]

Urban dictionary reference for hoover

https://bit.ly/3wrLfcy

With 120,000 members / 16 years, we have very rarely seen this. It does happen. It is not common.

[redhaired1818]

Hey skip, those are some really good resources so thank you so much. I just have one question, you mean them not charming is uncommon? I think a few months ago, I was lowkey hoping for one because getting cut out of someone else's life (especially someone as important as your girlfriend) abruptly causes a lot of cognitive dissonance. Also, when the entire burden of breakup is put on me even after I forgave her for lying and cheating after she emotionally blackmailed me back into it, it really made me question my own sanity for months after haha.

I guess I was looking for some kind of validation that I meant something to her, but now I see how that is unhealthy. The way I see it is since they have a new "Favourite Person", the previous one just ceases to exist (?). I got into a relationship with her quickly after she got out of a relationship and it was surprising to see how quickly she had moved on. I thought maybe her ex was abusive and toxic like she said so maybe she made the right choice by moving on quickly but yeah she never really thought about her ex when she was with me. But I guess now she probably has a new FP and she's painting me as toxic and abusive. Is that how their relationships go generally? I can only speak for my ex but with Tinder, she never really felt the need to recycle old relationships because she craved validation and attention from someone new all the time. Also I am 24 and she's 23 and she's managed to destroy 5 long term relationships but never went back since there's always someone new with just a swipe.

[Skip]

I just have one question, you mean them not hoovering is uncommon?

That data says.

1. Hoover - means, if it means anything:

Being manipulated back into a relationship with threats of suicide, self-harm, or threats of false criminal accusations. Relationship manipulation often associated with individuals suffering from personality disorders like Borderline Personality Disorder or Narcissistic Personality Disorder

This is the urban dictionary definition.

2. That definition of hoover, rarely occurs. It occurs sometimes, but in our survey it was less than 1%.

3. Recycling happens a lot. A third of respondents had 6 or more recycles.

4. After the "big break up", only 6% of the post relationship conversations are about getting back together = 94% are about other stuff.

The confusion with the term hoovering is that a lot of people lump any action under this label - unblocking facebook, a request to get their property back, a driveby on your street, a butt dial, a call to say to you suck, a drunk dial on a Saturday night, a random text...

With that definition, everyone can say they were hoovered.

I guess I was looking for some kind of validation that I meant something to her, but now I see how that is unhealthy. The way I see it is since they have a new "Favourite Person"

A lot of us hoped there would be some attempt to rekindle the relationship or something to confirms that when they said "I loved you more than life", that the statement was real.

Most likely she meant what she said when she said it. I would accept that and find peace in that.

Its also true that people with BPD can move-on rather completely - sever completely. Fact is, there are many non-BPD people that will do this do. Hard clean break. There are lots of reasons for this - not all of them bad.

And lastly, people with BPD traits tend to have disproportional emotional reactions - they "over feel" or "over communicate" feelings, both good and bad. So a person with BPD who says "you are the love of my love" means it and at the same tome doesn't necessarily need the level of commitment you would need to say the same thing.

Confusing. Yes. Relationship are hard and this adds a big confusing layer to it.

[once removed]

I think a few months ago, I was lowkey hoping for one because getting cut out of someone else's life (especially someone as important as your girlfriend) abruptly causes a lot of cognitive dissonance. Also, when the entire burden of breakup is put on me even after I forgave her for lying and cheating after she emotionally blackmailed me back into it, it really made me question my own sanity for months after haha.

I guess I was looking for some kind of validation that I meant something to her, but now I see how that is unhealthy.

i can understand this completely.

being cut out of the life of someone you loved is traumatic. being blamed for the breakup is brutal.

i wanted the same thing. it never really came.

i dont think, and especially under those circumstances, that its unhealthy or out of the ordinary to want to know that despite the way it ended, you meant something (i do think that that wound will heal). you meant something. you meant a lot, and she meant a lot to you, and one day, i promise you, youll be able to cherish that. i remember when i came here, the article on surviving a breakup told me that "i was special, but i wasnt that special". i wasnt so special that all the words and the promises would be true forever, or that the hurtful and traumatic things that happened, wouldnt have happened. but thats relationships, and breakups for you. just like all the girlfriends ive told they were "the most beautiful girl in the world" is not a belief i still hold today  

the reality is, what youve experienced is just the way that some people deal with a breakup; people with bpd traits are more prone to it than average (they are hypersensitive to perceived slights, they tend to avoid grieving with dysfunctional coping methods, and they tend to compartmentalize), though its not unique to them. everywhere you go today, you hear that youre supposed to cut anybody who says the wrong thing out of your life. you hear that youre supposed to kick people to the curb and find someone better. some 80% of people these days have experienced being "ghosted". some of those people, eventually, look back; they dont feel good about how things ended. some people dont.

its incredibly hurtful to you (and it was to me). you can learn a lot from the relationship going forward, dont get me wrong, but how a person copes is not a statement about you or your worth.

[MeandThee29]

i can understand this completely.

being cut out of the life of someone you loved is traumatic. being blamed for the breakup is brutal.

i wanted the same thing. it never really came.

Yes, it's pain like nothing else. Mine was a long-term marriage, and I had the diagnoses in hand from our mutual therapist and still struggled with getting the gravity of it all. I did NOT want to give up easily.

But partway through a high conflict divorce when BOTH attorneys were pulling for me and furious at my ex, I let go. His was so mad he told mine that my ex was the worst client of his career, but he'd stay in the game because of the two attorney's friendship (LOL). So two high-powered guys in expensive suits gave me closure. So ironic that I had to pay for it. At signing, mine said I'd get a whole chapter if he ever wrote a book.

After that, it was easier to accept that it was over-and-done. I do have good memories and two young adult children to show for all those years, but if he reappears, I'm not there. It just isn't worth it.

[crushedagain]

If she's borderline, give it time, it'll come.

I disagree. I haven't heard from mine in over 3 years. At this point, I know I'll never hear from her again.

[redhaired1818]

Yup, I don't think I'll ever hear from her again. The reason being even though she blames me for everything wrong in her life, she would actually be kind of ashamed to get back in touch. She would also be afraid of my response because she treated me garbage. Not necessarily a bad thing but I always wonder how she's doing and stuff.